Lots of Americans are sick of this climate change stuff

[boedicca]

No, it should be obvious to anyone.
If you were around in 1957, you would remember how momentous it was for the USS Natilus to go under the North Pole.
That was in the summer, the Arctic Ocean never used to open to the water at all. It was always iced shut.
There was no Northwest Passage.
But then in 1997, it all melted enough so that there now is a Northwest Passage.
Anyone can easily tell things are getting MUCH warmer.
When I was a kid about 60 years ago, there was 3 times as much snow and temperatures got 10 degrees colder in the winter.

I wasn't around in 1957, but I do know that there have been periods in Earth's history when the planet was a giant ball of ice. And your claim that it is MUCH warmer now is pure and utter nonsense. It is a bit warmer, and that is a good thing - unless you prefer the living conditions of the Dark Ages the those of the Medieval Warming Period.

Global warming has been very very good to carbon-based life forms.

 

[22lcidw]

I agree acid rain proves we have effected the environment already.

Also the red tide algae blooms from agricultural run off.

Humans had no real way to effect the environment much until about 200 years ago.
Now we are using up hundreds of millions of years worth of sequestered carbon in fossil fuels.
The most concentrated carbon on the whole planet.
How could burning hundreds of millions of years of stored carbon in only a few hundred years, NOT have a huge impact?

There is a difference between most pollution and the climate change scam.

 

[boedicca]

Wrong.
In a capitalist country there can be no socialism.
I a socialist country, there can be both capitalism and socialism.
Since Sweden has both capitalism and socialism, then it is a socialist country, NOT a capitalist one.

And you misunderstand socialism completely.
Socialism has NOTHING at all to do with welfare.
You do not have to have any welfare in a socialist state.
Instead, socialism pertains to joint public investment in production.
Which Sweden most definitely does.
For example, the government has invested in Volvo, to the tune of about half the company worth, and then gets most of the seat on the board of directors.

Oh Jeebus, you are such a Tiresome Hack.

Socialism is welfare. The state reallocates resources and income.

 

[Rigby5]

The Maunder Minimum was just a few hundred years ago.

Had the climate alarmists been living then...we would have been browbeaten into extinguishing heating and cooking fires because smoke was reflecting the suns rays back into space.

Sometimes it ain't about us.

While we may arrogantly believe that the sun rises and sets in our assholes...there is a very high probability that the "science of consensus", aka informed guesses, is wrong...especially in light of the fact no past computer models so far match the present reality.

You see...that is actual science. You model a hypothesis and then the future reality matches the results forecast by the model.

And that STILL isn't proof...because correlation is not causation.

But were not even to that point yet.

The Maunder Minimum was due to orbit precession and nutation, not the atmosphere.
Smoke does not block the sun and make it colder.
It absorbs light and prevents it from leaving the planet.
Smoke is black body carbon, and converts photonic radiation into vibratory heat.

Computer models are irrelevant.
They failed and predicted worse than what really happened, because we did not realize how much carbon that new lava absorbs.
That is our mistake, garbage in, garbage out.
But we do NOT need computer models to know the dangers.
We CAN run our own greenhouse experiments.
We DO know that carbon in the outer edge of our atmosphere controls how much heat can leave or not.
We can test it in a laboratory.
Computer models are not necessary.
The only reason to even consider computer models is for what we can not test in a lab.
And that is only when it comes to how much melting methane hydrate and water vapor will accelerate global warming.

 

[Rigby5]

There is a difference between most pollution and the climate change scam.

But if we can pollute enough to cause visible smog, then it should also be obvious that we can easily create global warming.
That is because it takes a lot of particulates to make a haze, but very little carbon in the upper atmosphere boundry to space, in order to retain heat.

 

[Rigby5]

Oh Jeebus, you are such a Tiresome Hack.

Socialism is welfare. The state reallocates resources and income.

Wrong.
Socialism has NOTHING at all to do with WELFARE.
What socialism actually is, is having the public capital used to build the means of production instead of private capital.
Socialism is just employee owned companies, where we are all employees.
You can ALSO have social welfare programs, but that has nothing at all to do with socialism.
Socialism is about public investment in the means of production only.

 

[Missourian]

Smoke does not block the sun and make it colder.
It absorbs light and prevents it from leaving the planet.
Smoke is black body carbon, and converts photonic radiation into vibratory heat.

Exactly... they'd be as wrong as you are. But in their arrogance they'd believe they "had to do something".

Computer models are irrelevant.
They failed and predicted worse than what really happened, because we did not realize how much carbon that new lava absorbs.
That is our mistake, garbage in, garbage out.
But we do NOT need computer models to know the dangers.

More excuses why the "science" doesn't match reality.

We CAN run our own greenhouse experiments.
We DO know that carbon in the outer edge of our atmosphere controls how much heat can leave or not.
We can test it in a laboratory.

No...you can't...for the same reason the models don't work. You're just too blinded by faith to believe it.

The only reason to even consider computer models is for what we can not test in a lab.
And that is only when it comes to how much melting methane hydrate and water vapor will accelerate global warming.

More excuses why the "science" doesn't match reality.

 

[Colin norris]

Oh Jeebus, you are such a Tiresome Hack.

Socialism is welfare. The state reallocates resources and income.

Here's some examples of how socialism benefits you every day.
Hospitals, doctors, nurses, police, teachers and schools, highways and bridges, railways and every other item funded by the government for your use.

Youre paranoid about someone getting your tax dollars for free but you not against you taking those little benefits. Even gas is subsidised because the government subsidises drilling companies.

 

[boedicca]

Wrong.
Socialism has NOTHING at all to do with WELFARE.
What socialism actually is, is having the public capital used to build the means of production instead of private capital.
Socialism is just employee owned companies, where we are all employees.
You can ALSO have social welfare programs, but that has nothing at all to do with socialism.
Socialism is about public investment in the means of production only.

You're wrong, but you do get 10 Points For Consistency.

Here's a clue: you left out the bit about economic "equality" - which is the loophole to divvy up the spoils based on connections to the party.

 

[Rigby5]

I wasn't around in 1957, but I do know that there have been periods in Earth's history when the planet was a giant ball of ice. And your claim that it is MUCH warmer now is pure and utter nonsense. It is a bit warmer, and that is a good thing - unless you prefer the living conditions of the Dark Ages the those of the Medieval Warming Period.

Global warming has been very very good to carbon-based life forms.

The planet was NEVER a "giant ball of ice".
The general ancient history was much warmer, with warm swamps and perpetual fog.
We have had ice ages and warming periods, but that is a 110,000 year long cycle, and ice never got further south than Kansas.

Humans can adapt to slow warming and cooling cycles.
We can slowly move farming, etc.
But the current global warming is over 1000 times faster than normal cycle changes, and by compounding an artificial warming on top of a natural warming, we could push the warming into a race condition from positive feedback of melting methane that is now frozen, and with more evaporated water vapor in the atmosphere.
The potential for positive feedback acceleration is the scary part.
For example, we know Venus has lots of water, but the thick atmosphere traps so much solar energy that it over 400 degrees on the surface, and no life can survive.
It is methane and water vapor that did that to Venus.
It did not take much.
And the Earth has as much potential methane and potential water vapor as Venus.

 

[boedicca]

Here's some examples of how socialism benefits you every day.
Hospitals, doctors, nurses, police, teachers and schools, highways and bridges, railways and every other item funded by the government for your use.

Youre paranoid about someone getting your tax dollars for free but you not against you taking those little benefits. Even gas is subsidised because the government subsidises drilling companies.

You are blathering booby. As I pay 50% of my income in taxes, I pay far more than I receive in benefits. Most people are in this category as the largest portion of the funding for health care, roads etc. goes to the bureaucracy...it is mostly Political Patronage.

charles hugh smith-Weblog and Essays

www.oftwominds.com

 

[boedicca]

The planet was NEVER a "giant ball of ice".
The general ancient history was much warmer, with warm swamps and perpetual fog.
We have had ice ages and warming periods, but that is a 110,000 year long cycle, and ice never got further south than Kansas.

Humans can adapt to slow warming and cooling cycles.
We can slowly move farming, etc.
But the current global warming is over 1000 times faster than normal cycle changes, and by compounding an artificial warming on top of a natural warming, we could push the warming into a race condition from positive feedback of melting methane that is now frozen, and with more evaporated water vapor in the atmosphere.
The potential for positive feedback acceleration is the scary part.
For example, we know Venus has lots of water, but the thick atmosphere traps so much solar energy that it over 400 degrees on the surface, and no life can survive.
It is methane and water vapor that did that to Venus.
It did not take much.
And the Earth has as much potential methane and potential water vapor as Venus.

Wrong again. The earth has gone through glacial periods. Our temperature variances today are statistically insignificant.

 

[Rigby5]

Here's some examples of how socialism benefits you every day.
Hospitals, doctors, nurses, police, teachers and schools, highways and bridges, railways and every other item funded by the government for your use.

Youre paranoid about someone getting your tax dollars for free but you not against you taking those little benefits. Even gas is subsidised because the government subsidises drilling companies.

But we could do so much more.
Just as many utilities like water and sewer are often government owned, so could we vote for government to start drilling and refining oil for us, making steel for us, running a grocery store chain, building cars, etc.
There is no limit to what we could have government do for us, better than private companies who extort high profits are willing to do.

 

[Rigby5]

You're wrong, but you do get 10 Points For Consistency.

Here's a clue: you left out the bit about economic "equality" - which is the loophole to divvy up the spoils based on connections to the party.

I disagree.
Economic equality does NOT mean anyone gets a free ride.
If someone works more hours, they should get paid more than one who works less.
Economic equality does not mean equal outcome, but equal opportunity.
It means that if 2 people have the same skills and do the same work, they get equal pay.
But the problem now is that those with capital leverage their monopoly on scare and necessary capital, in order to extort vast unearned profits.
Surely you can see how women are historically under paid for the same labor?

 

[Colin norris]

But we could do so much more.
Just as many utilities like water and sewer are often government owned, so could we vote for government to start drilling and refining oil for us, making steel for us, running a grocery store chain, building cars, etc.
There is no limit to what we could have government do for us, better than private companies who extort high profits are willing to do.

Thats a very good point.
The problem is nearly all Americans hate socialism where government controls production. Like a government funded health care.
Its one of the fundamentals of friction in USA.

 

[WEATHER53]

Like Covid it’s intent is to cripple productive conservative Americans.

 

[boedicca]

I disagree.
Economic equality does NOT mean anyone gets a free ride.
If someone works more hours, they should get paid more than one who works less.
Economic equality does not mean equal outcome, but equal opportunity.
It means that if 2 people have the same skills and do the same work, they get equal pay.
But the problem now is that those with capital leverage their monopoly on scare and necessary capital, in order to extort vast unearned profits.
Surely you can see how women are historically under paid for the same labor?

You don't grok much about Human Nature, bub. There will always be a clique that forms to be "in charge"...and the dole out the goods to their buds or to people who do things for them.

 

[Colin norris]

Like Covid it’s intent is to cripple productive conservative Americans.

So its a socialist conspiracy then?

How paranoid are you?

 

[Rigby5]

You are blathering booby. As I pay 50% of my income in taxes, I pay far more than I receive in benefits. Most people are in this category as the largest portion of the funding for health care, roads etc. goes to the bureaucracy...it is mostly Political Patronage.

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charles hugh smith-Weblog and Essays

www.oftwominds.com

Totally wrong.

First of all, if you are paying 50% in taxes, you need a new financial advisor.
There are lots of investments that can greatly reduce taxes.
For example, mortgage interest is tax exempt.
Rental properties can be depreciated on an accelerated schedule.
Etc.

But paying 50% of your income in taxes do not mean you are not getting more back than you paid in.
For example, the police, military, fire dept., etc, have kept you from being murdered, raped, invaded, etc.
That is an incalculable benefit.

And your examples are all wrong, because they are NOT government.
They are all health care, which the government is not allowed to touch.
The cause of all health care waste and massive inflation is from insurance companies.
They deliberately over pay provides because then providers will not want to work on people do not have insurance.

 

[boedicca]

Totally wrong.

First of all, if you are paying 50% in taxes, you need a new financial advisor.
There are lots of investments that can greatly reduce taxes.
For example, mortgage interest is tax exempt.
Rental properties can be depreciated on an accelerated schedule.
Etc.

But paying 50% of your income in taxes do not mean you are not getting more back than you paid in.
For example, the police, military, fire dept., etc, have kept you from being murdered, raped, invaded, etc.
That is an incalculable benefit.

And your examples are all wrong, because they are NOT government.
They are all health care, which the government is not allowed to touch.
The cause of all health care waste and massive inflation is from insurance companies.
They deliberately over pay provides because then providers will not want to work on people do not have insurance.

I have a fine financial advisor. I include all of the embedded taxes in my calculations.

And my examples are valid. Government interference distorts market pricing. If you think government doesn't touch health care, then you are even more clueless than I suspected.

Obamacare, ever heard of it?