LWIR FAILS to Warm the Atmosphere by Empirical Experiment.

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you only had some observed, measured evidence to support you...Imagine....you could prove the second law of thermodynamics wrong...you could prove that energy does move spontaneously from cool to warm..

None of my positions require a violation of the 2nd Law, or a violation of causality, or a violation of Stefan-Boltzmann. Unlike your solo positions..

 

[SSDD]

If you only had some observed, measured evidence to support you...Imagine....you could prove the second law of thermodynamics wrong...you could prove that energy does move spontaneously from cool to warm..

None of my positions require a violation of the 2nd Law, or a violation of causality, or a violation of Stefan-Boltzmann. Unlike your solo positions..

So you agree that energy can’t move spontaneously from cool to warm and that a radiator in the presence of other matter radiates according to its area, it’s emissivity, and the difference between its own temperature and the temperature of its surroundings?

Because that is what the laws and associated equations say.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you only had some observed, measured evidence to support you...Imagine....you could prove the second law of thermodynamics wrong...you could prove that energy does move spontaneously from cool to warm..

None of my positions require a violation of the 2nd Law, or a violation of causality, or a violation of Stefan-Boltzmann. Unlike your solo positions..

So you agree that energy can’t move spontaneously from cool to warm and that a radiator in the presence of other matter radiates according to its area, it’s emissivity, and the difference between its own temperature and the temperature of its surroundings?

Because that is what the laws and associated equations say.

So you agree that energy can’t move spontaneously from cool to warm

I disagree with your solo claim that matter above 0K can't radiate in all directions.

and that a radiator in the presence of other matter radiates according to its area, it’s emissivity, and the difference between its own temperature and the temperature of its surroundings?

I disagree with your solo claim that matter doesn't radiate according to the 4th power of its thermodynamic temperature.

 

[SSDD]

So you agree that energy can’t move spontaneously from cool to warm

I disagree with your solo claim that matter above 0K can't radiate in all directions.

That is a dodge...not an answer to my question...

and that a radiator in the presence of other matter radiates according to its area, it’s emissivity, and the difference between its own temperature and the temperature of its surroundings?

I disagree with your solo claim that matter doesn't radiate according to the 4th power of its thermodynamic temperature.

And yet another dodge rather than answering the question...good one...makes me look great and you look afraid to answer a couple of very simple questions...

 

[Wuwei]

If you only had some observed, measured evidence to support you...Imagine....you could prove the second law of thermodynamics wrong...you could prove that energy does move spontaneously from cool to warm.

The concept that entropy is constant or increases was proven. The second law expressed by saying radiant energy is inhibited from moving from cold to hot objects has never been proven. The entropy law allows it. Quantum mechanics disallows that inhibition.

 

[jc456]

I suggest that you brush up on the S-B Law....it has nothing to do with absorption beyond the fact that it initially speaks to a perfect black body which absorbs all energy across all bands.....The S-B law is about emission...and how a radiator behaves.

That is exactly right. Boltzmann derived the equation

P = e sigma A T⁴

directly from Plank's black body radiation law. Plank's law defined radiation over a full spectrum. His student, Boltzmann, simply integrated over the full spectrum to get the above equation including an exact value for sigma for radiation.

Stefan found in his experiments the cooling rate of an object was not just dependent on the object temperatures 4th power, but also on the surround temperatures 4th power. He heuristically discovered a subtracted form followed the data.

Ergo the fact that he found that P changes as the difference in temperature between T and Tc changes...not because T is absorbing energy from Tc...but because it radiates according to the difference between the two temperatures...

To understand the experimental values of the cooling rate of an object, the absorption of heat of the object due to the surround at temperature Tc had to be considered. The input power that slows the cooling rate has a factor called absorptivity

Sorry guy...the story that goes with your bogus equation is bogus as well...

By the way...there is no two way Planck equation either...both understood full well that energy moves in one direction...warm to cool.

but because it radiates according to the difference between the two temperatures...

Dimmer switch!!

You can call it whatever you want, the radiating object cools down.

Both objects radiate.

only in your dreams. you should really rename the SB law. cause it says radiates from a hot body, not a cool body. Please post up where it states that.

 

[jc456]

Ergo the fact that he found that P changes as the difference in temperature between T and Tc changes...not because T is absorbing energy from Tc...but because it radiates according to the difference between the two temperatures...

Sorry guy...the story that goes with your bogus equation is bogus as well...

By the way...there is no two way Planck equation either...both understood full well that energy moves in one direction...warm to cool.

but because it radiates according to the difference between the two temperatures...

Dimmer switch!!

You can call it whatever you want, the radiating object cools down.

Both objects radiate.

Nope, and you’ll never prove it. The equation calls T the radiator, therefore the surrounding doesn’t radiate. Read it!

For a body of any arbitrary material emitting and absorbing thermal electromagnetic radiation at every wavelength in thermodynamic equilibrium, the ratio of its emissive power to its dimensionless coefficient of absorption is equal to a universal function only of radiative wavelength and temperature. That universal function describes the perfect black-body emissive power.[1][2][3][4][5][6]

Kirchhoff's law of thermal radiation - Wikipedia

again, I never said that an object wouldn't emit when around a cool object. I'm waiting for you to show where a cool body emits near a warm body. Cause when in that state, the warm body radiates to the cool body that is absorbing. And again, if that warmer body now, comes into proximity of a cooler body, it will emit towards it. 2nd law.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So you agree that energy can’t move spontaneously from cool to warm

I disagree with your solo claim that matter above 0K can't radiate in all directions.

That is a dodge...not an answer to my question...

and that a radiator in the presence of other matter radiates according to its area, it’s emissivity, and the difference between its own temperature and the temperature of its surroundings?

I disagree with your solo claim that matter doesn't radiate according to the 4th power of its thermodynamic temperature.

And yet another dodge rather than answering the question...good one...makes me look great and you look afraid to answer a couple of very simple questions...

That is a dodge...not an answer to my question...

Does matter above 0k radiate in all directions or not?

And yet another dodge rather than answering the question..

Pointing out that matter radiates according to the 4th power of its thermodynamic temperature
neatly points out your solo confusion.

makes me look great

Yes, your epicycles make you look great, to a handful of clowns.

But still, you have ZERO backup for your solo misinterpretations.
Weird. You should have hundreds of sources to easily confirm your claims...……...

 

[jc456]

So you agree that energy can’t move spontaneously from cool to warm

I disagree with your solo claim that matter above 0K can't radiate in all directions.

That is a dodge...not an answer to my question...

and that a radiator in the presence of other matter radiates according to its area, it’s emissivity, and the difference between its own temperature and the temperature of its surroundings?

I disagree with your solo claim that matter doesn't radiate according to the 4th power of its thermodynamic temperature.

And yet another dodge rather than answering the question...good one...makes me look great and you look afraid to answer a couple of very simple questions...

That is a dodge...not an answer to my question...

Does matter above 0k radiate in all directions or not?

And yet another dodge rather than answering the question..

Pointing out that matter radiates according to the 4th power of its thermodynamic temperature
neatly points out your solo confusion.

makes me look great

Yes, your epicycles make you look great, to a handful of clowns.

But still, you have ZERO backup for your solo misinterpretations.
Weird. You should have hundreds of sources to easily confirm your claims...……...

Does matter above 0k radiate in all directions or not?

sure, when it is around cooler surroundings.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That is exactly right. Boltzmann derived the equation

P = e sigma A T⁴

directly from Plank's black body radiation law. Plank's law defined radiation over a full spectrum. His student, Boltzmann, simply integrated over the full spectrum to get the above equation including an exact value for sigma for radiation.

Stefan found in his experiments the cooling rate of an object was not just dependent on the object temperatures 4th power, but also on the surround temperatures 4th power. He heuristically discovered a subtracted form followed the data.

Ergo the fact that he found that P changes as the difference in temperature between T and Tc changes...not because T is absorbing energy from Tc...but because it radiates according to the difference between the two temperatures...

To understand the experimental values of the cooling rate of an object, the absorption of heat of the object due to the surround at temperature Tc had to be considered. The input power that slows the cooling rate has a factor called absorptivity

Sorry guy...the story that goes with your bogus equation is bogus as well...

By the way...there is no two way Planck equation either...both understood full well that energy moves in one direction...warm to cool.

but because it radiates according to the difference between the two temperatures...

Dimmer switch!!

You can call it whatever you want, the radiating object cools down.

Both objects radiate.

only in your dreams. you should really rename the SB law. cause it says radiates from a hot body, not a cool body. Please post up where it states that.

only in your dreams.

Mine. Einstein's. Planck's. Kirchoff's.

 

[jc456]

So you agree that energy can’t move spontaneously from cool to warm

I disagree with your solo claim that matter above 0K can't radiate in all directions.

That is a dodge...not an answer to my question...

and that a radiator in the presence of other matter radiates according to its area, it’s emissivity, and the difference between its own temperature and the temperature of its surroundings?

I disagree with your solo claim that matter doesn't radiate according to the 4th power of its thermodynamic temperature.

And yet another dodge rather than answering the question...good one...makes me look great and you look afraid to answer a couple of very simple questions...

That is a dodge...not an answer to my question...

Does matter above 0k radiate in all directions or not?

And yet another dodge rather than answering the question..

Pointing out that matter radiates according to the 4th power of its thermodynamic temperature
neatly points out your solo confusion.

makes me look great

Yes, your epicycles make you look great, to a handful of clowns.

But still, you have ZERO backup for your solo misinterpretations.
Weird. You should have hundreds of sources to easily confirm your claims...……...

But still, you have ZERO backup for your solo misinterpretations.
Weird. You should have hundreds of sources to easily confirm your claims...……...

projection!!!! gaslighting.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

but because it radiates according to the difference between the two temperatures...

Dimmer switch!!

You can call it whatever you want, the radiating object cools down.

Both objects radiate.

Nope, and you’ll never prove it. The equation calls T the radiator, therefore the surrounding doesn’t radiate. Read it!

For a body of any arbitrary material emitting and absorbing thermal electromagnetic radiation at every wavelength in thermodynamic equilibrium, the ratio of its emissive power to its dimensionless coefficient of absorption is equal to a universal function only of radiative wavelength and temperature. That universal function describes the perfect black-body emissive power.[1][2][3][4][5][6]

Kirchhoff's law of thermal radiation - Wikipedia

again, I never said that an object wouldn't emit when around a cool object. I'm waiting for you to show where a cool body emits near a warm body. Cause when in that state, the warm body radiates to the cool body that is absorbing. And again, if that warmer body now, comes into proximity of a cooler body, it will emit towards it. 2nd law.

For a body of any arbitrary material emitting and absorbing thermal electromagnetic radiation at every wavelength in thermodynamic equilibrium,

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So you agree that energy can’t move spontaneously from cool to warm

I disagree with your solo claim that matter above 0K can't radiate in all directions.

That is a dodge...not an answer to my question...

and that a radiator in the presence of other matter radiates according to its area, it’s emissivity, and the difference between its own temperature and the temperature of its surroundings?

I disagree with your solo claim that matter doesn't radiate according to the 4th power of its thermodynamic temperature.

And yet another dodge rather than answering the question...good one...makes me look great and you look afraid to answer a couple of very simple questions...

That is a dodge...not an answer to my question...

Does matter above 0k radiate in all directions or not?

And yet another dodge rather than answering the question..

Pointing out that matter radiates according to the 4th power of its thermodynamic temperature
neatly points out your solo confusion.

makes me look great

Yes, your epicycles make you look great, to a handful of clowns.

But still, you have ZERO backup for your solo misinterpretations.
Weird. You should have hundreds of sources to easily confirm your claims...……...

Does matter above 0k radiate in all directions or not?

sure, when it is around cooler surroundings.

Excellent claim! Now post some links confirming your claimed restrictions.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So you agree that energy can’t move spontaneously from cool to warm

I disagree with your solo claim that matter above 0K can't radiate in all directions.

That is a dodge...not an answer to my question...

and that a radiator in the presence of other matter radiates according to its area, it’s emissivity, and the difference between its own temperature and the temperature of its surroundings?

I disagree with your solo claim that matter doesn't radiate according to the 4th power of its thermodynamic temperature.

And yet another dodge rather than answering the question...good one...makes me look great and you look afraid to answer a couple of very simple questions...

That is a dodge...not an answer to my question...

Does matter above 0k radiate in all directions or not?

And yet another dodge rather than answering the question..

Pointing out that matter radiates according to the 4th power of its thermodynamic temperature
neatly points out your solo confusion.

makes me look great

Yes, your epicycles make you look great, to a handful of clowns.

But still, you have ZERO backup for your solo misinterpretations.
Weird. You should have hundreds of sources to easily confirm your claims...……...

But still, you have ZERO backup for your solo misinterpretations.
Weird. You should have hundreds of sources to easily confirm your claims...……...

projection!!!! gaslighting.

Projection? Did you forget my link to Kirchoff's law of thermal radiation already?

 

[Wuwei]

The warming of the earth caused by CO2 is not hypothetical. Researchers at Berkeley Lab made direct observations and measurements.

First direct observation of carbon dioxide's increasing greenhouse effect (Feb 2015)
First direct observation of carbon dioxide's increasing greenhouse effect

The researchers, led by scientists from the US Department of Energy's Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab), measured atmospheric carbon dioxide's increasing capacity to absorb thermal radiation emitted from the Earth's surface over an eleven-year period at two locations in North America.....

The scientists used incredibly precise spectroscopic instruments operated by the Atmospheric Radiation Measurement (ARM) Climate Research Facility, a DOE Office of Science User Facility. These instruments, located at ARM research sites in Oklahoma and Alaska, measure thermal infrared energy that travels down through the atmosphere to the surface. They can detect the unique spectral signature of infrared energy from CO2.​

.

 

[SSDD]

The warming of the earth caused by CO2 is not hypothetical. Researchers at Berkeley Lab made direct observations and measurements.

First direct observation of carbon dioxide's increasing greenhouse effect (Feb 2015)
First direct observation of carbon dioxide's increasing greenhouse effect

The researchers, led by scientists from the US Department of Energy's Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab), measured atmospheric carbon dioxide's increasing capacity to absorb thermal radiation emitted from the Earth's surface over an eleven-year period at two locations in North America.....

The scientists used incredibly precise spectroscopic instruments operated by the Atmospheric Radiation Measurement (ARM) Climate Research Facility, a DOE Office of Science User Facility. These instruments, located at ARM research sites in Oklahoma and Alaska, measure thermal infrared energy that travels down through the atmosphere to the surface. They can detect the unique spectral signature of infrared energy from CO2.​

.

So as the amount of CO2 increased...the amount of radiation that could be measured with COOLED instruments increased..that is, the amount of energy moving from the warmer atmosphere to the cooler instrument increased...while the amount of back radiation that could be measured with uncooled instruments remains zero...what is your point?...other than perhaps, how easy it is to fool you.

 

[jc456]

Ergo the fact that he found that P changes as the difference in temperature between T and Tc changes...not because T is absorbing energy from Tc...but because it radiates according to the difference between the two temperatures...

Sorry guy...the story that goes with your bogus equation is bogus as well...

By the way...there is no two way Planck equation either...both understood full well that energy moves in one direction...warm to cool.

but because it radiates according to the difference between the two temperatures...

Dimmer switch!!

You can call it whatever you want, the radiating object cools down.

Both objects radiate.

only in your dreams. you should really rename the SB law. cause it says radiates from a hot body, not a cool body. Please post up where it states that.

only in your dreams.

Mine. Einstein's. Planck's. Kirchoff's.

I agree with their version, not yours.

 

[jc456]

So you agree that energy can’t move spontaneously from cool to warm

I disagree with your solo claim that matter above 0K can't radiate in all directions.

That is a dodge...not an answer to my question...

and that a radiator in the presence of other matter radiates according to its area, it’s emissivity, and the difference between its own temperature and the temperature of its surroundings?

I disagree with your solo claim that matter doesn't radiate according to the 4th power of its thermodynamic temperature.

And yet another dodge rather than answering the question...good one...makes me look great and you look afraid to answer a couple of very simple questions...

That is a dodge...not an answer to my question...

Does matter above 0k radiate in all directions or not?

And yet another dodge rather than answering the question..

Pointing out that matter radiates according to the 4th power of its thermodynamic temperature
neatly points out your solo confusion.

makes me look great

Yes, your epicycles make you look great, to a handful of clowns.

But still, you have ZERO backup for your solo misinterpretations.
Weird. You should have hundreds of sources to easily confirm your claims...……...

Does matter above 0k radiate in all directions or not?

sure, when it is around cooler surroundings.

Excellent claim! Now post some links confirming your claimed restrictions.

since you haven't provided any links showing they do, means I have proven my point. thanks. keep not posting links.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

but because it radiates according to the difference between the two temperatures...

Dimmer switch!!

You can call it whatever you want, the radiating object cools down.

Both objects radiate.

only in your dreams. you should really rename the SB law. cause it says radiates from a hot body, not a cool body. Please post up where it states that.

only in your dreams.

Mine. Einstein's. Planck's. Kirchoff's.

I agree with their version, not yours.

Their version has matter at equilibrium emitting and absorbing identical amounts of energy.
At the same time.

 

[jc456]

So you agree that energy can’t move spontaneously from cool to warm

I disagree with your solo claim that matter above 0K can't radiate in all directions.

That is a dodge...not an answer to my question...

and that a radiator in the presence of other matter radiates according to its area, it’s emissivity, and the difference between its own temperature and the temperature of its surroundings?

I disagree with your solo claim that matter doesn't radiate according to the 4th power of its thermodynamic temperature.

And yet another dodge rather than answering the question...good one...makes me look great and you look afraid to answer a couple of very simple questions...

That is a dodge...not an answer to my question...

Does matter above 0k radiate in all directions or not?

And yet another dodge rather than answering the question..

Pointing out that matter radiates according to the 4th power of its thermodynamic temperature
neatly points out your solo confusion.

makes me look great

Yes, your epicycles make you look great, to a handful of clowns.

But still, you have ZERO backup for your solo misinterpretations.
Weird. You should have hundreds of sources to easily confirm your claims...……...

But still, you have ZERO backup for your solo misinterpretations.
Weird. You should have hundreds of sources to easily confirm your claims...……...

projection!!!! gaslighting.

Projection? Did you forget my link to Kirchoff's law of thermal radiation already?

If you only had some observed, measured evidence to support you...Imagine....you could prove the second law of thermodynamics wrong...you could prove that energy does move spontaneously from cool to warm.

The concept that entropy is constant or increases was proven. The second law expressed by saying radiant energy is inhibited from moving from cold to hot objects has never been proven. The entropy law allows it. Quantum mechanics disallows that inhibition.

Great, then post that evidence.