Mass Shooting At A Fort Myers Nightclub

[WheelieAddict]

The United States provides the right for citizens to have guns. This is not going away. The debate should be about access, liscensing, and getting rid of selling guns in a parking lot; with the aim to keep guns out of criminals hands and allow them to remain in lawful citizens hands.

How do you propose to keep guns out of the hands of criminals? You understand that was the rationale for the 1968 Gun Control Act, right? And that it is obviously a tremendous failure. So what measure do you think will keep criminals from breaking the law?

I am on your side first of all and do not want to ban guns that are legal now. What I would like to see is private sales in parking lots banned throughout the US. I would like all sales to be through a state licensed gun shop with a background check. Any fees should be minimal and waived if a transfer between family members.

How will that stop criminals getting guns? Please be specific.

It will not. There is no govt restriction that will completely, and that is a good reason why we all should be able to bear arms. That said I don't think having to sell your gun through a licensed shop is too much of a burden to gun owners, and would likely stop some of them getting into the wrong hands. It makes it easy to trace guns to illegal transfers.

Wrong on every count.
Criminals typically steal guns and resell them to other criminals. Nothing you have outlined would stop that and instead burden lawful gun owners.

Dallas shooter Micah Johnson arranged purchase of AK-47 through Facebook
This seller thought the guy was AOK. I'm not saying having to sell at a licensed facility would have stopped this, but it would be a deterrent. You want to sell your gun small $5.00- $10.00 fee (that goes to the gun shop not the state) and you have to sell it at a licensed shop. Fee is waived for transfers between family

 

[DigitalDrifter]

OP, gun laws would never have prevented a shooting like this.

There are over 320 million firearms in the hands of private citizens. The Genie is out of the bottle, you need to find a new cause to latch on to.

 

[OKTexas]

Mass Shooting In Florida Nightclub - Report

Oh wait, it's in Florida which already has loads of guns.....

After spending days telling the Germans they are wrong for having strict gun control...... the right will probably give their reasons why there should be MORE guns.... right?

The United States provides the right for citizens to have guns. This is not going away. The debate should be about access, liscensing, and getting rid of selling guns in a parking lot; with the aim to keep guns out of criminals hands and allow them to remain in lawful citizens hands.

How do you propose to keep guns out of the hands of criminals? You understand that was the rationale for the 1968 Gun Control Act, right? And that it is obviously a tremendous failure. So what measure do you think will keep criminals from breaking the law?

I am on your side first of all and do not want to ban guns that are legal now. What I would like to see is private sales in parking lots banned throughout the US. I would like all sales to be through a state licensed gun shop with a background check. Any fees should be minimal and waived if a transfer between family members.

How will that stop criminals getting guns? Please be specific.

It will not. There is no govt restriction that will completely, and that is a good reason why we all should be able to bear arms. That said I don't think having to sell your gun through a licensed shop is too much of a burden to gun owners, and would likely stop some of them getting into the wrong hands. It makes it easy to trace guns to illegal transfers.

I'll be happy to go through that hassle, just as soon as you can guarantee criminals will do it too.

 

[frigidweirdo]

But then again the UK has shown that it has a murder rate 1/4 that of the US!

I don't see that comment as being relevant to the issue.

In the UK you can still be murdered.

And so in the UK you must still defend yourself.

Since guns are essentially prohibited in the UK then you must defend yourself with another weapon.

And even then there is still a possibility that the criminal who assaults has a gun and brought it into the UK from France or Belgium.

Yes, you can still be murdered in the UK. You can be murdered anywhere with any weapon, hands, feet, TV, guns.
Murder will always happen.

You can be murdered with a gun in your hand, with a gun in your holster, if you are an armed police officer, etc etc.

However in the UK you are 4 times less likely to be murdered. You are safer.

You may not be able to defend yourself as effectively without a gun in a comparable situation, however the fact is many situations aren't comparable. In the US you're going to come up against people wielding guns.

Alaska has the highest rape rate in the US, 5 times higher than in NY. But they have laxer guns laws, more guns, etc etc.

How is this the case if guns make you safer?

 

[xband]

But then again the UK has shown that it has a murder rate 1/4 that of the US!

I don't see that comment as being relevant to the issue.

In the UK you can still be murdered.

And so in the UK you must still defend yourself.

Since guns are essentially prohibited in the UK then you must defend yourself with another weapon.

And even then there is still a possibility that the criminal who assaults has a gun and brought it into the UK from France or Belgium.

Yes, you can still be murdered in the UK. You can be murdered anywhere with any weapon, hands, feet, TV, guns.
Murder will always happen.

You can be murdered with a gun in your hand, with a gun in your holster, if you are an armed police officer, etc etc.

However in the UK you are 4 times less likely to be murdered. You are safer.

You may not be able to defend yourself as effectively without a gun in a comparable situation, however the fact is many situations aren't comparable. In the US you're going to come up against people wielding guns.

Alaska has the highest rape rate in the US, 5 times higher than in NY. But they have laxer guns laws, more guns, etc etc.

How is this the case if guns make you safer?

Climb a mountain and fall off a cliff, the mountain murdered you with that sneaky cliff.

 

[OKTexas]

The United States provides the right for citizens to have guns. This is not going away. The debate should be about access, liscensing, and getting rid of selling guns in a parking lot; with the aim to keep guns out of criminals hands and allow them to remain in lawful citizens hands.

The debate can be about many things. About the impact of guns on society, which the right generally try and ignore. Why shouldn't people look for the root cause of problems and change the Constitution if they think it's wrong?

The root cause of gun crime is not the second amendment

so changing it will not stop gun crimes

Firstly, I didn't say the 2A was the root cause of gun crime.

Changing it might have an impact however, depending on other stuff.

I've always said the US needs to change the way it goes about things, and the main change is how people vote. However, like I said, people might look at the root causes and see that guns in society don't necessarily make society safer.

If the US has 4 times more murders than European countries, then there are lots of issues around this. But the US doesn't want to change, so people will die.

At the same time the right will spend their whole time making sure nothing changes.

A lot has already changed since the day I walked into Western Auto at age 11 and laid down cash to buy a shotgun and shells and carried them home for my dads Christmas present. The only thing that has made a difference is a culture that glorifies killing, guns laws have since that time have done nothing.

So you must be talking about violent tv shows and movies.

And also now violent video games.

I see the problem somewhat differently.

I see the modern descendants of the freed negro slaves in the USA as still an underclass particularly in urban centers where they are economically entrapped.

Theft and violence are their only means of support.

There is no solution to this problem therefore everyone else must be armed to defend themselves.

Since many of these criminals already have criminal records they don't care about breaking the law again.

Therefore making more laws will not solve the problem.

Since there are not enough cops to protect you everywhere and all the time ... everyone needs their own gun on their person. This also requires training and practice as well.

No, I'm talking about a mindset that says it's acceptable to kill someone who pisses you off or you think they somehow disrespected you. It's mostly related to gangs and drugs. Just look at the number of rap artist that have been killed over the last few years, they weren't economically disadvantaged. Then young ignorant people try to mirror that.

 

[WheelieAddict]

The United States provides the right for citizens to have guns. This is not going away. The debate should be about access, liscensing, and getting rid of selling guns in a parking lot; with the aim to keep guns out of criminals hands and allow them to remain in lawful citizens hands.

How do you propose to keep guns out of the hands of criminals? You understand that was the rationale for the 1968 Gun Control Act, right? And that it is obviously a tremendous failure. So what measure do you think will keep criminals from breaking the law?

I am on your side first of all and do not want to ban guns that are legal now. What I would like to see is private sales in parking lots banned throughout the US. I would like all sales to be through a state licensed gun shop with a background check. Any fees should be minimal and waived if a transfer between family members.

How will that stop criminals getting guns? Please be specific.

It will not. There is no govt restriction that will completely, and that is a good reason why we all should be able to bear arms. That said I don't think having to sell your gun through a licensed shop is too much of a burden to gun owners, and would likely stop some of them getting into the wrong hands. It makes it easy to trace guns to illegal transfers.

I'll be happy to go through that hassle, just as soon as you can guarantee criminals will do it too.

Alright then we disagree. I hope that you respect my opinion and realize that I agree Hillary's plan to make gun manufacturers liable for shootings is outrageous and the way they are trying to control guns. This plan to allow lawsuits against manufacturers is the biggest threat against legal gun owners as I see it. I voted for Sanders who is absolutely against suing manufactures and has never pushed gun control in his state.

 

[xband]

The debate can be about many things. About the impact of guns on society, which the right generally try and ignore. Why shouldn't people look for the root cause of problems and change the Constitution if they think it's wrong?

The root cause of gun crime is not the second amendment

so changing it will not stop gun crimes

I will resort to my fists using Robert's rules of boxing when insulted but I ain't gonna shoot anybody for talking about my family.


Firstly, I didn't say the 2A was the root cause of gun crime.

Changing it might have an impact however, depending on other stuff.

I've always said the US needs to change the way it goes about things, and the main change is how people vote. However, like I said, people might look at the root causes and see that guns in society don't necessarily make society safer.

If the US has 4 times more murders than European countries, then there are lots of issues around this. But the US doesn't want to change, so people will die.

At the same time the right will spend their whole time making sure nothing changes.

A lot has already changed since the day I walked into Western Auto at age 11 and laid down cash to buy a shotgun and shells and carried them home for my dads Christmas present. The only thing that has made a difference is a culture that glorifies killing, guns laws have since that time have done nothing.

So you must be talking about violent tv shows and movies.

And also now violent video games.

I see the problem somewhat differently.

I see the modern descendants of the freed negro slaves in the USA as still an underclass particularly in urban centers where they are economically entrapped.

Theft and violence are their only means of support.

There is no solution to this problem therefore everyone else must be armed to defend themselves.

Since many of these criminals already have criminal records they don't care about breaking the law again.

Therefore making more laws will not solve the problem.

Since there are not enough cops to protect you everywhere and all the time ... everyone needs their own gun on their person. This also requires training and practice as well.

No, I'm talking about a mindset that says it's acceptable to kill someone who pisses you off or you think they somehow disrespected you. It's mostly related to gangs and drugs. Just look at the number of rap artist that have been killed over the last few years, they weren't economically disadvantaged. Then young ignorant people try to mirror that.

 

[OKTexas]

How do you propose to keep guns out of the hands of criminals? You understand that was the rationale for the 1968 Gun Control Act, right? And that it is obviously a tremendous failure. So what measure do you think will keep criminals from breaking the law?

I am on your side first of all and do not want to ban guns that are legal now. What I would like to see is private sales in parking lots banned throughout the US. I would like all sales to be through a state licensed gun shop with a background check. Any fees should be minimal and waived if a transfer between family members.

How will that stop criminals getting guns? Please be specific.

It will not. There is no govt restriction that will completely, and that is a good reason why we all should be able to bear arms. That said I don't think having to sell your gun through a licensed shop is too much of a burden to gun owners, and would likely stop some of them getting into the wrong hands. It makes it easy to trace guns to illegal transfers.

Wrong on every count.
Criminals typically steal guns and resell them to other criminals. Nothing you have outlined would stop that and instead burden lawful gun owners.

Dallas shooter Micah Johnson arranged purchase of AK-47 through Facebook
This seller thought the guy was AOK. I'm not saying having to sell at a licensed facility would have stopped this, but it would be a deterrent. You want to sell your gun small $5.00- $10.00 fee (that goes to the gun shop not the state) and you have to sell it at a licensed shop. Fee is waived for transfers between family

The Dallas shooter had no criminal record, he could have just as easily bought it at a gun store. Why not just open the NICS system so everyone can do it themselves?

 

[xband]

How do you propose to keep guns out of the hands of criminals? You understand that was the rationale for the 1968 Gun Control Act, right? And that it is obviously a tremendous failure. So what measure do you think will keep criminals from breaking the law?

I am on your side first of all and do not want to ban guns that are legal now. What I would like to see is private sales in parking lots banned throughout the US. I would like all sales to be through a state licensed gun shop with a background check. Any fees should be minimal and waived if a transfer between family members.

How will that stop criminals getting guns? Please be specific.

It will not. There is no govt restriction that will completely, and that is a good reason why we all should be able to bear arms. That said I don't think having to sell your gun through a licensed shop is too much of a burden to gun owners, and would likely stop some of them getting into the wrong hands. It makes it easy to trace guns to illegal transfers.

I'll be happy to go through that hassle, just as soon as you can guarantee criminals will do it too.

Alright then we disagree. I hope that you respect my opinion and realize that I agree Hillary's plan to make gun manufacturers liable for shootings is outrageous and the way they are trying to control guns. This plan to allow lawsuits against manufacturers is the biggest threat against legal gun owners as I see it. I voted for Sanders who is absolutely against suing manufactures and has never pushed gun control in his state.

Put a gunsmith in a locked concrete block house with no windows and only mechanics tools, a block of wood, a piece of flint, some charcoal, a bit of salt peter, a bit of sulphur and block of steel for thirty days out comes a flint lock musket that can kill a squirrel at one hundred yards.

 

[OKTexas]

How do you propose to keep guns out of the hands of criminals? You understand that was the rationale for the 1968 Gun Control Act, right? And that it is obviously a tremendous failure. So what measure do you think will keep criminals from breaking the law?

I am on your side first of all and do not want to ban guns that are legal now. What I would like to see is private sales in parking lots banned throughout the US. I would like all sales to be through a state licensed gun shop with a background check. Any fees should be minimal and waived if a transfer between family members.

How will that stop criminals getting guns? Please be specific.

It will not. There is no govt restriction that will completely, and that is a good reason why we all should be able to bear arms. That said I don't think having to sell your gun through a licensed shop is too much of a burden to gun owners, and would likely stop some of them getting into the wrong hands. It makes it easy to trace guns to illegal transfers.

I'll be happy to go through that hassle, just as soon as you can guarantee criminals will do it too.

Alright then we disagree. I hope that you respect my opinion and realize that I agree Hillary's plan to make gun manufacturers liable for shootings is outrageous and the way they are trying to control guns. This plan to allow lawsuits against manufacturers is the biggest threat against legal gun owners as I see it. I voted for Sanders who is absolutely against suing manufactures and has never pushed gun control in his state.

You can't make a manufacturer responsible for customers who misuse their products. That's like making liquor or car manufactures responsible for DUI injuries and deaths. There's no legal basis for it. Plus gun makers only sell their product to federally licensed dealers.

 

[frigidweirdo]

...

I've always said the US needs to change the way it goes about things, and the main change is how people vote. However, like I said, people might look at the root causes and see that guns in society don't necessarily make society safer.

If the US has 4 times more murders than European countries, then there are lots of issues around this. But the US doesn't want to change, so people will die.

At the same time the right will spend their whole time making sure nothing changes.

The UK has already shown that if you don't have guns in your society then crime will not change, the crime will simply become knife crime, like it is there.

As for trying to be safe in a knife crime environment, you still need to do all the things you need to do in a gun crime environment -- be aware, don't go out at nite alone, stay in a group, etc.

You then must also carry your own knife, preferably a bigger knife than usual, and you must know how to fight with it.

By the way the best way to learn how to fight with knives is to take sword fencing classes. That way you learn all the parries, thrusts, and cuts.

But then again the UK has shown that it has a murder rate 1/4 that of the US!

The UK has always has a lower murder rate

In fact the murder rte in the UK has increased from what it was in 1950
And the murder rate in the US is virtually the same as it was in 1950

Homicide Rate (per 100,000), 1950–2014
List of countries by intentional homicide rate by decade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SO over 6 decades the murder rate in our country has risen and declined to the same rate
In UK the country gun control nuts like to use as an example in the same 60 year period the murder rte has risen and declined but now remains higher than it was 60 years ago

And that is after the UK passed the 1968 gun control laws

SO there seems to be other forces at work and not just gun ownership

But if I say there are cultural and demographic differences between the US and the UK I will undoubtedly be called a racist

So the UK murder rate has always been lower, therefore it's destined to always be lower? That's a weak argument. That's like saying it's higher so let's not bother to fix the problems.

This is all that seems to happen on here, and in American politics in general. Excuses for why nothing should ever change.

Yes, there are other forces at work other than guns. Of course there are. These also need to be looked at. However in general they're not either.

 

[frigidweirdo]

But then again the UK has shown that it has a murder rate 1/4 that of the US!

I don't see that comment as being relevant to the issue.

In the UK you can still be murdered.

And so in the UK you must still defend yourself.

Since guns are essentially prohibited in the UK then you must defend yourself with another weapon.

And even then there is still a possibility that the criminal who assaults has a gun and brought it into the UK from France or Belgium.

Yes, you can still be murdered in the UK. You can be murdered anywhere with any weapon, hands, feet, TV, guns.
Murder will always happen.

You can be murdered with a gun in your hand, with a gun in your holster, if you are an armed police officer, etc etc.

However in the UK you are 4 times less likely to be murdered. You are safer.

You may not be able to defend yourself as effectively without a gun in a comparable situation, however the fact is many situations aren't comparable. In the US you're going to come up against people wielding guns.

Alaska has the highest rape rate in the US, 5 times higher than in NY. But they have laxer guns laws, more guns, etc etc.

How is this the case if guns make you safer?

Climb a mountain and fall off a cliff, the mountain murdered you with that sneaky cliff.

As has been stated many times on here, and ignored many times, guns exacerbate a situation, rather than make the situation. I don't need to explain this simple concept to you, do I?

 

[xband]

But then again the UK has shown that it has a murder rate 1/4 that of the US!

I don't see that comment as being relevant to the issue.

In the UK you can still be murdered.

And so in the UK you must still defend yourself.

Since guns are essentially prohibited in the UK then you must defend yourself with another weapon.

And even then there is still a possibility that the criminal who assaults has a gun and brought it into the UK from France or Belgium.

Yes, you can still be murdered in the UK. You can be murdered anywhere with any weapon, hands, feet, TV, guns.
Murder will always happen.

You can be murdered with a gun in your hand, with a gun in your holster, if you are an armed police officer, etc etc.

However in the UK you are 4 times less likely to be murdered. You are safer.

You may not be able to defend yourself as effectively without a gun in a comparable situation, however the fact is many situations aren't comparable. In the US you're going to come up against people wielding guns.

Alaska has the highest rape rate in the US, 5 times higher than in NY. But they have laxer guns laws, more guns, etc etc.

How is this the case if guns make you safer?

Climb a mountain and fall off a cliff, the mountain murdered you with that sneaky cliff.

As has been stated many times on here, and ignored many times, guns exacerbate a situation, rather than make the situation. I don't need to explain this simple concept to you, do I?

Squirrel gravy over hot biscuits is a mouth watering breakfast. I humbly disagree with you, guns lessen a situation and the bigger the gun the better to prevent a fight.

 

[WheelieAddict]

I am on your side first of all and do not want to ban guns that are legal now. What I would like to see is private sales in parking lots banned throughout the US. I would like all sales to be through a state licensed gun shop with a background check. Any fees should be minimal and waived if a transfer between family members.

How will that stop criminals getting guns? Please be specific.

It will not. There is no govt restriction that will completely, and that is a good reason why we all should be able to bear arms. That said I don't think having to sell your gun through a licensed shop is too much of a burden to gun owners, and would likely stop some of them getting into the wrong hands. It makes it easy to trace guns to illegal transfers.

I'll be happy to go through that hassle, just as soon as you can guarantee criminals will do it too.

Alright then we disagree. I hope that you respect my opinion and realize that I agree Hillary's plan to make gun manufacturers liable for shootings is outrageous and the way they are trying to control guns. This plan to allow lawsuits against manufacturers is the biggest threat against legal gun owners as I see it. I voted for Sanders who is absolutely against suing manufactures and has never pushed gun control in his state.

You can't make a manufacturer responsible for customers who misuse their products. That's like making liquor or car manufactures responsible for DUI injuries and deaths. There's no legal basis for it. Plus gun makers only sell their product to federally licensed dealers.

I know its insanity and I completely agree. This is what Hillary said though. Sanders disagreed and was treated like he caused Sandy Hook.

Just another reason I wont vote for Hillary she wants to ban guns and sue the manufacturers, see the democratic debates for proof..

 

[Skull Pilot]

...

I've always said the US needs to change the way it goes about things, and the main change is how people vote. However, like I said, people might look at the root causes and see that guns in society don't necessarily make society safer.

If the US has 4 times more murders than European countries, then there are lots of issues around this. But the US doesn't want to change, so people will die.

At the same time the right will spend their whole time making sure nothing changes.

The UK has already shown that if you don't have guns in your society then crime will not change, the crime will simply become knife crime, like it is there.

As for trying to be safe in a knife crime environment, you still need to do all the things you need to do in a gun crime environment -- be aware, don't go out at nite alone, stay in a group, etc.

You then must also carry your own knife, preferably a bigger knife than usual, and you must know how to fight with it.

By the way the best way to learn how to fight with knives is to take sword fencing classes. That way you learn all the parries, thrusts, and cuts.

But then again the UK has shown that it has a murder rate 1/4 that of the US!

The UK has always has a lower murder rate

In fact the murder rte in the UK has increased from what it was in 1950
And the murder rate in the US is virtually the same as it was in 1950

Homicide Rate (per 100,000), 1950–2014
List of countries by intentional homicide rate by decade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SO over 6 decades the murder rate in our country has risen and declined to the same rate
In UK the country gun control nuts like to use as an example in the same 60 year period the murder rte has risen and declined but now remains higher than it was 60 years ago

And that is after the UK passed the 1968 gun control laws

SO there seems to be other forces at work and not just gun ownership

But if I say there are cultural and demographic differences between the US and the UK I will undoubtedly be called a racist

So the UK murder rate has always been lower, therefore it's destined to always be lower? That's a weak argument. That's like saying it's higher so let's not bother to fix the problems.

This is all that seems to happen on here, and in American politics in general. Excuses for why nothing should ever change.

Yes, there are other forces at work other than guns. Of course there are. These also need to be looked at. However in general they're not either.

Yes the consistently lower murder rates are relevant.

And Our murder rate is exactly the same as it was 60 years ago

And I never mentioned any future trends but if you want to put money on it I'll bet you that the murder rate in the UK will be lower than in the US 60 years from now.

ANd just what exactly do you want to change? Do you want to limit gun ownership? We already do that. Do you want to ban certain guns? We already do that

So just what exactly is it you think we should do tp curb gun crime and not curb the rights of law abiding citizens?

 

[frigidweirdo]

But then again the UK has shown that it has a murder rate 1/4 that of the US!

I don't see that comment as being relevant to the issue.

In the UK you can still be murdered.

And so in the UK you must still defend yourself.

Since guns are essentially prohibited in the UK then you must defend yourself with another weapon.

And even then there is still a possibility that the criminal who assaults has a gun and brought it into the UK from France or Belgium.

Yes, you can still be murdered in the UK. You can be murdered anywhere with any weapon, hands, feet, TV, guns.
Murder will always happen.

You can be murdered with a gun in your hand, with a gun in your holster, if you are an armed police officer, etc etc.

However in the UK you are 4 times less likely to be murdered. You are safer.

You may not be able to defend yourself as effectively without a gun in a comparable situation, however the fact is many situations aren't comparable. In the US you're going to come up against people wielding guns.

Alaska has the highest rape rate in the US, 5 times higher than in NY. But they have laxer guns laws, more guns, etc etc.

How is this the case if guns make you safer?

Climb a mountain and fall off a cliff, the mountain murdered you with that sneaky cliff.

As has been stated many times on here, and ignored many times, guns exacerbate a situation, rather than make the situation. I don't need to explain this simple concept to you, do I?

Squirrel gravy over hot biscuits is a mouth watering breakfast. I humbly disagree with you, guns lessen a situation and the bigger the gun the better to prevent a fight.

So how do you account for the US murder rate being 4 times higher than other first world countries then?

You have a guy who can get a gun and wants to kill people, and a guy who can't get a gun and wants to kill people, who's going to kill the most?

Even if people have guns to fight back, you're always going to get in there first and cause the damage before anyone can react. Knives allow for longer reaction times.

But I do notice you didn't use anything to back up your statement.

 

[owebo]

I don't see that comment as being relevant to the issue.

In the UK you can still be murdered.

And so in the UK you must still defend yourself.

Since guns are essentially prohibited in the UK then you must defend yourself with another weapon.

And even then there is still a possibility that the criminal who assaults has a gun and brought it into the UK from France or Belgium.

Yes, you can still be murdered in the UK. You can be murdered anywhere with any weapon, hands, feet, TV, guns.
Murder will always happen.

You can be murdered with a gun in your hand, with a gun in your holster, if you are an armed police officer, etc etc.

However in the UK you are 4 times less likely to be murdered. You are safer.

You may not be able to defend yourself as effectively without a gun in a comparable situation, however the fact is many situations aren't comparable. In the US you're going to come up against people wielding guns.

Alaska has the highest rape rate in the US, 5 times higher than in NY. But they have laxer guns laws, more guns, etc etc.

How is this the case if guns make you safer?

Climb a mountain and fall off a cliff, the mountain murdered you with that sneaky cliff.

As has been stated many times on here, and ignored many times, guns exacerbate a situation, rather than make the situation. I don't need to explain this simple concept to you, do I?

Squirrel gravy over hot biscuits is a mouth watering breakfast. I humbly disagree with you, guns lessen a situation and the bigger the gun the better to prevent a fight.

So how do you account for the US murder rate being 4 times higher than other first world countries then?

You have a guy who can get a gun and wants to kill people, and a guy who can't get a gun and wants to kill people, who's going to kill the most?

Even if people have guns to fight back, you're always going to get in there first and cause the damage before anyone can react. Knives allow for longer reaction times.

But I do notice you didn't use anything to back up your statement.

The democrat plantation.....

 

[CowboyTed]

Mass Shooting In Florida Nightclub - Report

Oh wait, it's in Florida which already has loads of guns.....

After spending days telling the Germans they are wrong for having strict gun control...... the right will probably give their reasons why there should be MORE guns.... right?

The United States provides the right for citizens to have guns. This is not going away. The debate should be about access, liscensing, and getting rid of selling guns in a parking lot; with the aim to keep guns out of criminals hands and allow them to remain in lawful citizens hands.

The debate can be about many things. About the impact of guns on society, which the right generally try and ignore. Why shouldn't people look for the root cause of problems and change the Constitution if they think it's wrong?

The root cause of gun crime is not the second amendment

so changing it will not stop gun crimes

So why has the right blocked all money going to scientifically researching Gun Crime?

 

[frigidweirdo]

...

I've always said the US needs to change the way it goes about things, and the main change is how people vote. However, like I said, people might look at the root causes and see that guns in society don't necessarily make society safer.

If the US has 4 times more murders than European countries, then there are lots of issues around this. But the US doesn't want to change, so people will die.

At the same time the right will spend their whole time making sure nothing changes.

The UK has already shown that if you don't have guns in your society then crime will not change, the crime will simply become knife crime, like it is there.

As for trying to be safe in a knife crime environment, you still need to do all the things you need to do in a gun crime environment -- be aware, don't go out at nite alone, stay in a group, etc.

You then must also carry your own knife, preferably a bigger knife than usual, and you must know how to fight with it.

By the way the best way to learn how to fight with knives is to take sword fencing classes. That way you learn all the parries, thrusts, and cuts.

But then again the UK has shown that it has a murder rate 1/4 that of the US!

The UK has always has a lower murder rate

In fact the murder rte in the UK has increased from what it was in 1950
And the murder rate in the US is virtually the same as it was in 1950

Homicide Rate (per 100,000), 1950–2014
List of countries by intentional homicide rate by decade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SO over 6 decades the murder rate in our country has risen and declined to the same rate
In UK the country gun control nuts like to use as an example in the same 60 year period the murder rte has risen and declined but now remains higher than it was 60 years ago

And that is after the UK passed the 1968 gun control laws

SO there seems to be other forces at work and not just gun ownership

But if I say there are cultural and demographic differences between the US and the UK I will undoubtedly be called a racist

So the UK murder rate has always been lower, therefore it's destined to always be lower? That's a weak argument. That's like saying it's higher so let's not bother to fix the problems.

This is all that seems to happen on here, and in American politics in general. Excuses for why nothing should ever change.

Yes, there are other forces at work other than guns. Of course there are. These also need to be looked at. However in general they're not either.

Yes the consistently lower murder rates are relevant.

And Our murder rate is exactly the same as it was 60 years ago

And I never mentioned any future trends but if you want to put money on it I'll bet you that the murder rate in the UK will be lower than in the US 60 years from now.

ANd just what exactly do you want to change? Do you want to limit gun ownership? We already do that. Do you want to ban certain guns? We already do that

So just what exactly is it you think we should do tp curb gun crime and not curb the rights of law abiding citizens?

It might be the same as it was 60 years ago, but what? Guns were there before, guns are there now. Nothing has changed, and the whole time other first world countries have had lower crime, even if they've had an increase (which the US had also).

You want to bet the UK murder rate will be lower? I'd bet that too, mostly out of knowledge that the US doesn't solve problems much, and other countries do.

What do I want to change? It's a complex issue. But right now it's complex and nothing is being done about it, and people just say "but we have a right", but is the right sensible any more. Times have changed. Limits on firearms aren't very limited. It's like stopping someone from eating 250 bowls of cereal a day, 249 is okay though.

Not curb the rights of citizens? Haha, you put that in at the end. Well, firstly I think people should be open about the issue. That's never going to happen. I mean the partisan nonsense isn't going to change because it's in the interests of the politicians to keep it going.

I do think other things need to change first, like how people vote for one, without that changing nothing else is going to change.

However people need to take a look at the murder rate. When you get people calling for all Muslims to be deported and all that nonsense, and yet the number of murders and killings by Muslims is far, far, far lower than the gun problem in the US, yet they won't do anything about the gun problem but will do something about curbing OTHER PEOPLE.