Meg Whitman: Hypocrisy and Karma

[Charles_Main]

The letter does not state the chick is an illegal. As a matter of fact, it prohibits the employer from taking any action whatsoever against the employee.

What is the difference between a housekeeper with genuine documents and one with forged documents?

Answer: you don't know until after the fact.

The IRS does not accept 941's or cash checks on nonexistant SSN's, Revere.

The letter specifically directs the recipient not to consider the employee undocumented or take any action against them.

Shhh that ruins their whole smear campaign

 

[mudwhistle]

mudwhistle, it is illegal to discriminate among citizens of the US and LEGAL US aliens. It is not only LEGAL but LEGALLY REQUIRED to discriminate against illegal aliens.

ARREST WHITMAN!​

Not according to several lawsuits that have been filed against Arizona law-enforcement officials on behalf of the Obama Department of Justice and the ACLU.

What you're doing is trying to get her both ways. She can't refuse employment but she's getting nailed for employing her. Which way is it?

The lawsuit against the Arizona law does not violate federal law, and has nothing to do with the compliance required by federal law. Nice attempt at tossing in a red herring.

Not really. The lawsuit is an attempt to stifle enforcement of immigration laws. You cannot ask a person of foreign decent for their ID because it's deemed discriminatory. It's total horseshit. Asking a white person is Okay but not a Hispanic. It's outright lunacy.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Not according to several lawsuits that have been filed against Arizona law-enforcement officials on behalf of the Obama Department of Justice and the ACLU.

What you're doing is trying to get her both ways. She can't refuse employment but she's getting nailed for employing her. Which way is it?

The lawsuit against the Arizona law does not violate federal law, and has nothing to do with the compliance required by federal law. Nice attempt at tossing in a red herring.

Not really. The lawsuit is an attempt to stifle enforcement of immigration laws. You cannot ask a person of foreign decent for their ID because it's deemed discriminatory. It's total horseshit. Asking a white person is Okay but not a Hispanic. It's outright lunacy.

No, the lawsuit is about a state usurping federal authority and using discriminatory methods to enforce a federal law. The law has nothing to do with an employers responsibility to comply with existing federal law.

 

[Madeline]

The information I gleaned from Fox News is that. The Whitman's hired this maid through a reputable employment service, they asked for a "legal resident" Said maid arrive with a ss card, a driver's license, and I9? form. Subsequently a letter arrived from the SS department asking for certification. It is the maid's responsibility to provide that info not the Whitman/s. Mr. Whitman wrote a note on the letter telling the maid to "take care of this. Finally in 2009 the maid admitted to being here illegaly and was subsequently fired. Enter Gloria Alred. she's a female al sharpton it seems. Anywho the maid is the person who clearly broke the law, Sneaked into the country, stole a social security card, procured a driver's license, and falsely signed on the I9 document that all the information was valid and correct. Now tell me this person hasn't voted in the last nine years. Go ahead and convince me.

That is an excellent question, Willow. She has a stolen/fraudulent SS card and a fraudulent DL. What other crimes has the maid committed?

Seems like Gloria will have her hands full defending this woman....arrest her, convict her, let her serve time in prison and then deport her back to Nicaraguia. Buh bye, maid lady. (Now watch....the maid will do a deal for her US citizenship and immunity against prosecution for voter fraud, possession of counterfeit docs, illegal immigration, identity theft, etc. etc. etc.)

Tell me again, how is it Whitman's illegal acts have not harmed California or the US? I'm feeling harmed. I'm mad as hell. So why ain't you, mudwhistle?

You feel harmed? hahahaha.

I'd like you to prove that shit in a court of law. Prove damages if you feel you must.

I can't get over the selective self-righteous indignation from Democrat supporters even though you know they've been encouraging illegals by the millions to break our laws.

Reagan granted Amnesty to all US illegal aliens in 1986, mudwhistle.

A Reagan Legacy: Amnesty For Illegal Immigrants : NPR

ZERO prosecutions for hiring illegal immigrants were undertaken against any US business under George W Bush. This is from a speech Bush gave in 2006:

Some in this country argue that the solution is to — is to deport every illegal immigrant and that any proposal short of this amounts to amnesty. I disagree. It is neither wise nor realistic to round up millions of people, many with deep roots in the United States, and send them across the border. There is a rational middle ground between granting an automatic path to citizenship for every illegal immigrant, and a program of mass deportation. That middle ground recognizes that there are differences between an illegal immigrant who crossed the border recently and someone who has worked here for many years, and has a home, a family, and an otherwise clean record. I believe that illegal immigrants who have roots in our country and want to stay should have to pay a meaningful penalty for breaking the law, … to pay their taxes, … to learn English … and to work in a job for a number of years. People who meet these conditions should be able to apply for citizenship but approval would not be automatic, and they will have to wait in line behind those who played by the rules and followed the law. What I’ve have just described is not amnesty it is a way for those who have broken the law to pay their debt to society, and demonstrate the character that makes a good citizen.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/15/washington/15text-bush.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

If you read the entire speech, you'll see Bush made a variety of promises about border security and deportation he never kept, mudwhsitle. Obama's record on illegal immigration law enforcement is actually better than Bush's...but a step up from "abysmal" is not enough.

Illegal immigration is not a Republican versus Democrat issue, mudwhistle. It is a citizen versus politican issue...pandering to illegals is far too tempting to most pols of every stripe, and we need to send a firm message that doing so will get them punted from office, regardless of their party.

I reccomend a PAC I belong to on this issue a lot, though there a several other good ones:

FAIR: Federation for American Immigration Reform

 

[WillowTree]

Not according to several lawsuits that have been filed against Arizona law-enforcement officials on behalf of the Obama Department of Justice and the ACLU.

What you're doing is trying to get her both ways. She can't refuse employment but she's getting nailed for employing her. Which way is it?

The lawsuit against the Arizona law does not violate federal law, and has nothing to do with the compliance required by federal law. Nice attempt at tossing in a red herring.

Not really. The lawsuit is an attempt to stifle enforcement of immigration laws. You cannot ask a person of foreign decent for their ID because it's deemed discriminatory. It's total horseshit. Asking a white person is Okay but not a Hispanic. It's outright lunacy.

No, it's as Whitman maintains. this lawsuit is strictly political. I think she's right. Ya know no one on the left went after Colin Powell when he divulged that illeagls had worked for him. Nary a one. Nary. Fucking dirty politics hypocrite demonRats.

 

[Madeline]

The IRS does not accept 941's or cash checks on nonexistant SSN's, Revere.

The letter specifically directs the recipient not to consider the employee undocumented or take any action against them.

Shhh that ruins their whole smear campaign

Have we seen this letter? I suspect it was legally sufficient NOTICE to the Whitmans' that the maid was almost certainly illegal. How could it be otherwise?

 

[WillowTree]

On The Record w Greta VanSusteren | FoxNews.com

 

[Dick Tuck]

The lawsuit against the Arizona law does not violate federal law, and has nothing to do with the compliance required by federal law. Nice attempt at tossing in a red herring.

Not really. The lawsuit is an attempt to stifle enforcement of immigration laws. You cannot ask a person of foreign decent for their ID because it's deemed discriminatory. It's total horseshit. Asking a white person is Okay but not a Hispanic. It's outright lunacy.

No, it's as Whitman maintains. this lawsuit is strictly political. I think she's right. Ya know no one on the left went after Colin Powell when he divulged that illeagls had worked for him. Nary a one. Nary. Fucking dirty politics hypocrite demonRats.

Powell didn't hire undocumented workers, he said he suspected that the firms that he did hire, were using them. Whitman employed Nikky directly.

Now if you want to look at hypocrites, I suggest you look at all those right wing squealing pigs who rail about "illegals" taking jobs away from Americans. Many of them can be found on this thread, contorting every fact, to pretend that this case is somehow different.

 

[WillowTree]

Not really. The lawsuit is an attempt to stifle enforcement of immigration laws. You cannot ask a person of foreign decent for their ID because it's deemed discriminatory. It's total horseshit. Asking a white person is Okay but not a Hispanic. It's outright lunacy.

No, it's as Whitman maintains. this lawsuit is strictly political. I think she's right. Ya know no one on the left went after Colin Powell when he divulged that illeagls had worked for him. Nary a one. Nary. Fucking dirty politics hypocrite demonRats.

Powell didn't hire undocumented workers, he said he suspected that the firms that he did hire, were using them. Whitman employed Nikky directly.

Now if you want to look at hypocrites, I suggest you look at all those right wing squealing pigs who rail about "illegals" taking jobs away from Americans. Many of them can be found on this thread, contorting every fact, to pretend that this case is somehow different.

Whitman didn't either. She worked with a reputable employment agency. She asked for a "legal resident". The maid appeared with social security card in hand. A driver's license. A I9 for signed as truthful and accurate. The maid broke all the laws not the Whitman/s the maid should be deported. It's all a political hack job.

 

[Madeline]

Notice where it says "It is illegal to discriminate....".

This doc tells the Whitmans they can't fire Nikki because this doc proves she is legal....which she wasn't because she lied on the document.

mudwhistle, it is illegal to discriminate among citizens of the US and LEGAL US aliens. It is not only LEGAL but LEGALLY REQUIRED to discriminate against illegal aliens.

ARREST WHITMAN!​

Not according to several lawsuits that have been filed against Arizona law-enforcement officials on behalf of the Obama Department of Justice and the ACLU.

What you're doing is trying to get her both ways. She can't refuse employment but she's getting nailed for employing her. Which way is it?

Whitman broke the law by employing this lady without a valid I-9 on file. She broke the law by negligently examining documents associated with an I-9, thus allowing an illegal alien to work. She broke the law by negligently accepting a stolen SSN from an employee and filing numerous tax filings and payments on that stolen number (a crime that was also mail fraud or wire fraud each time it occurred). She broke the law by allowing an employee of hers to drive her vehicles or to drive theirs while on her business when she knew or should have known the DL was fraudulent. (If the maid lived in, Whitman's auto insurance would have verified the maid's DL...unless Whitman also made false applications for nine years' worth of auto insurance).

Etc, etc. etc. There is no way to live "off the grid" legally while working as a maid for a US Billionaire and candidate for governor. Cannot be done...and the maid's crimes could not have occurred without Whitman's crimes to aid and abet her.

 

[mudwhistle]

The lawsuit against the Arizona law does not violate federal law, and has nothing to do with the compliance required by federal law. Nice attempt at tossing in a red herring.

Not really. The lawsuit is an attempt to stifle enforcement of immigration laws. You cannot ask a person of foreign decent for their ID because it's deemed discriminatory. It's total horseshit. Asking a white person is Okay but not a Hispanic. It's outright lunacy.

No, the lawsuit is about a state usurping federal authority and using discriminatory methods to enforce a federal law. The law has nothing to do with an employers responsibility to comply with existing federal law.

Then you haven't read the law. It begins covering it on page 7 Sec. 7 Section 23-212
Read for yourself: The full text of Arizona's controversial illegal immigrant law | Top of the Ticket | Los Angeles Times

So since you don't know the law...the rest of your argument is bogus.

Btw.....the law mirrors federal laws in all but one respect....it gives local law-enforcement officials the right to question suspects. It's only authorizes them to question suspects once they have probable cause. It specifically prohibits discriminatory practices.

 

[Dick Tuck]

No, it's as Whitman maintains. this lawsuit is strictly political. I think she's right. Ya know no one on the left went after Colin Powell when he divulged that illeagls had worked for him. Nary a one. Nary. Fucking dirty politics hypocrite demonRats.

Powell didn't hire undocumented workers, he said he suspected that the firms that he did hire, were using them. Whitman employed Nikky directly.

Now if you want to look at hypocrites, I suggest you look at all those right wing squealing pigs who rail about "illegals" taking jobs away from Americans. Many of them can be found on this thread, contorting every fact, to pretend that this case is somehow different.

Whitman didn't either. She worked with a reputable employment agency. She asked for a "legal resident". The maid appeared with social security card in hand. A driver's license. A I9 for signed as truthful and accurate. The maid broke all the laws not the Whitman/s the maid should be deported. It's all a political hack job.

No, that's not true. She was referred to Whitman from an employment agency. Whitman witheld taxes and paid the woman directly. If Nikky had worked for a "service", they would have been the ones to handle all those issues, and Whitman wouldn't have been the one receiving the SSA letters, nor would she be the one to maintain that shoddy file that included the I9 form.

Contort away.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Not really. The lawsuit is an attempt to stifle enforcement of immigration laws. You cannot ask a person of foreign decent for their ID because it's deemed discriminatory. It's total horseshit. Asking a white person is Okay but not a Hispanic. It's outright lunacy.

No, the lawsuit is about a state usurping federal authority and using discriminatory methods to enforce a federal law. The law has nothing to do with an employers responsibility to comply with existing federal law.

Then you haven't read the law. It begins covering it on page 7 Sec. 7 Section 23-212
Read for yourself: The full text of Arizona's controversial illegal immigrant law | Top of the Ticket | Los Angeles Times

So since you don't know the law...the rest of your argument is bogus.

Btw.....the law mirrors federal laws in all but one respect....it gives local law-enforcement officials the right to question suspects. It's only authorizes them to question suspects once they have probable cause. It specifically prohibits discriminatory practices.

Those are facts that will be resolved by a court, not by spin. In any case, I'm sure there's already enough threads on the lawsuit. This thread is about Whitman employing an undocumented worker, while evangelizing against that practice, and getting caught. This thread is about whether Whitman, who doesn't even live in Arizona, violated federal law or regulations, and whether she was willfully negligent by not resolving ambiguous information she provided to the government.

 

[Madeline]

The lawsuit against the Arizona law does not violate federal law, and has nothing to do with the compliance required by federal law. Nice attempt at tossing in a red herring.

Not really. The lawsuit is an attempt to stifle enforcement of immigration laws. You cannot ask a person of foreign decent for their ID because it's deemed discriminatory. It's total horseshit. Asking a white person is Okay but not a Hispanic. It's outright lunacy.

No, it's as Whitman maintains. this lawsuit is strictly political. I think she's right. Ya know no one on the left went after Colin Powell when he divulged that illeagls had worked for him. Nary a one. Nary. Fucking dirty politics hypocrite demonRats.

I went after Powell. So did many others, on both sides of the aisle. So did many "talking heads".

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2753115-post2.html

As you know very well, Willow.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2753151-post6.html

 

[WillowTree]

Powell didn't hire undocumented workers, he said he suspected that the firms that he did hire, were using them. Whitman employed Nikky directly.

Now if you want to look at hypocrites, I suggest you look at all those right wing squealing pigs who rail about "illegals" taking jobs away from Americans. Many of them can be found on this thread, contorting every fact, to pretend that this case is somehow different.

Whitman didn't either. She worked with a reputable employment agency. She asked for a "legal resident". The maid appeared with social security card in hand. A driver's license. A I9 for signed as truthful and accurate. The maid broke all the laws not the Whitman/s the maid should be deported. It's all a political hack job.

No, that's not true. She was referred to Whitman from an employment agency. Whitman witheld taxes and paid the woman directly. If Nikky had worked for a "service", they would have been the ones to handle all those issues, and Whitman wouldn't have been the one receiving the SSA letters, nor would she be the one to maintain that shoddy file that included the I9 form.

Contort away.

I tend to believe Mrs. Whitman's version. Not the close associate of Jerry Brown, one Gloria Alred. It's political hackery pure and simple and I hope it backfires. We are still left with the knowledge that this illegal sneaked into the country obtained a stolen ss number, a driver's licens and signed an I9 form as true and correct. She purjered herself to take a job @ $23.00 an hour, a job that some American could have had. Now, she wants to play the victim. What a farce. Send her ass packing.

 

[Ravi]

No, it's as Whitman maintains. this lawsuit is strictly political. I think she's right. Ya know no one on the left went after Colin Powell when he divulged that illeagls had worked for him. Nary a one. Nary. Fucking dirty politics hypocrite demonRats.

Powell didn't hire undocumented workers, he said he suspected that the firms that he did hire, were using them. Whitman employed Nikky directly.

Now if you want to look at hypocrites, I suggest you look at all those right wing squealing pigs who rail about "illegals" taking jobs away from Americans. Many of them can be found on this thread, contorting every fact, to pretend that this case is somehow different.

Whitman didn't either. She worked with a reputable employment agency. She asked for a "legal resident". The maid appeared with social security card in hand. A driver's license. A I9 for signed as truthful and accurate. The maid broke all the laws not the Whitman/s the maid should be deported. It's all a political hack job.

It doesn't matter, twinkie. The employer holds the ultimate responsibility. Just like your CPA is not going to jail if you avoid paying taxes...you are.

Whitman campaigns on the employer being responsible and yet wants to shirk her responsibility.

Sounds like an awesome Republican to me.

 

[Madeline]

Whitman didn't either. She worked with a reputable employment agency. She asked for a "legal resident". The maid appeared with social security card in hand. A driver's license. A I9 for signed as truthful and accurate. The maid broke all the laws not the Whitman/s the maid should be deported. It's all a political hack job.

No, that's not true. She was referred to Whitman from an employment agency. Whitman witheld taxes and paid the woman directly. If Nikky had worked for a "service", they would have been the ones to handle all those issues, and Whitman wouldn't have been the one receiving the SSA letters, nor would she be the one to maintain that shoddy file that included the I9 form.

Contort away.

I tend to believe Mrs. Whitman's version. Not the close associate of Jerry Brown, one Gloria Alred. It's political hackery pure and simple and I hope it backfires. We are still left with the knowledge that this illegal sneaked into the country obtained a stolen ss number, a driver's licens and signed an I9 form as true and correct. She purjered herself to take a job @ $23.00 an hour, a job that some American could have had. Now, she wants to play the victim. What a farce. Send her ass packing.

 

[mudwhistle]

That is an excellent question, Willow. She has a stolen/fraudulent SS card and a fraudulent DL. What other crimes has the maid committed?

Seems like Gloria will have her hands full defending this woman....arrest her, convict her, let her serve time in prison and then deport her back to Nicaraguia. Buh bye, maid lady. (Now watch....the maid will do a deal for her US citizenship and immunity against prosecution for voter fraud, possession of counterfeit docs, illegal immigration, identity theft, etc. etc. etc.)

Tell me again, how is it Whitman's illegal acts have not harmed California or the US? I'm feeling harmed. I'm mad as hell. So why ain't you, mudwhistle?

You feel harmed? hahahaha.

I'd like you to prove that shit in a court of law. Prove damages if you feel you must.

I can't get over the selective self-righteous indignation from Democrat supporters even though you know they've been encouraging illegals by the millions to break our laws.

Reagan granted Amnesty to all US illegal aliens in 1986, mudwhistle.

A Reagan Legacy: Amnesty For Illegal Immigrants : NPR

ZERO prosecutions for hiring illegal immigrants were undertaken against any US business under George W Bush. This is from a speech Bush gave in 2006:

Some in this country argue that the solution is to — is to deport every illegal immigrant and that any proposal short of this amounts to amnesty. I disagree. It is neither wise nor realistic to round up millions of people, many with deep roots in the United States, and send them across the border. There is a rational middle ground between granting an automatic path to citizenship for every illegal immigrant, and a program of mass deportation. That middle ground recognizes that there are differences between an illegal immigrant who crossed the border recently and someone who has worked here for many years, and has a home, a family, and an otherwise clean record. I believe that illegal immigrants who have roots in our country and want to stay should have to pay a meaningful penalty for breaking the law, … to pay their taxes, … to learn English … and to work in a job for a number of years. People who meet these conditions should be able to apply for citizenship but approval would not be automatic, and they will have to wait in line behind those who played by the rules and followed the law. What I’ve have just described is not amnesty it is a way for those who have broken the law to pay their debt to society, and demonstrate the character that makes a good citizen.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/15/washington/15text-bush.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

If you read the entire speech, you'll see Bush made a variety of promises about border security and deportation he never kept, mudwhsitle. Obama's record on illegal immigration law enforcement is actually better than Bush's...but a step up from "abysmal" is not enough.

Illegal immigration is not a Republican versus Democrat issue, mudwhistle. It is a citizen versus politican issue...pandering to illegals is far too tempting to most pols of every stripe, and we need to send a firm message that doing so will get them punted from office, regardless of their party.

I reccomend a PAC I belong to on this issue a lot, though there a several other good ones:

FAIR: Federation for American Immigration Reform

By granting amnesty to illegals it just made the problem worse. Now we're at the point where it's not just 6 million illegals but untold millions...upwards of maybe 30 million.

Bush says it's unfair to make every one of them leave. However when they break our laws all bets are off.

It doesn't matter what somebody else did. Bush said obey the law and people refused to. Democrats told everybody to disobey the law and people said OKAY!!!

I wonder if you can see the difference.

 

[mudwhistle]

Powell didn't hire undocumented workers, he said he suspected that the firms that he did hire, were using them. Whitman employed Nikky directly.

Now if you want to look at hypocrites, I suggest you look at all those right wing squealing pigs who rail about "illegals" taking jobs away from Americans. Many of them can be found on this thread, contorting every fact, to pretend that this case is somehow different.

Whitman didn't either. She worked with a reputable employment agency. She asked for a "legal resident". The maid appeared with social security card in hand. A driver's license. A I9 for signed as truthful and accurate. The maid broke all the laws not the Whitman/s the maid should be deported. It's all a political hack job.

It doesn't matter, twinkie. The employer holds the ultimate responsibility. Just like your CPA is not going to jail if you avoid paying taxes...you are.

Whitman campaigns on the employer being responsible and yet wants to shirk her responsibility.

Sounds like an awesome Republican to me.

She campaigns on proper border enforcement. She doesn't campaign on the employer being solely responsible. It's not her fault she was lied to.

I bet you claim that the Senate was lied to on WMDs. Is the Senate ultimately responsible for Bush lies?

 

[Charles_Main]

The letter specifically directs the recipient not to consider the employee undocumented or take any action against them.

Shhh that ruins their whole smear campaign

Have we seen this letter? I suspect it was legally sufficient NOTICE to the Whitmans' that the maid was almost certainly illegal. How could it be otherwise?

Is that why it specifically stated they should not assume she was undocumented, and "they should take NO ACTION against the employee"?