MI makes female genital mutilation a 15 yr felony. Circumcision still legal

[martybegan]

male circumcision isn't mutilation. I'm circumcised and my wang works just fine.

Actually... It is mutilation. And women's vaginas, also work after the circumcision. Not sure what your point was.

They don't actually orgasm due to the more severe forms of the procedures.

I orgasm just fine.

Do you have pre-circumcision orgasm references from which to draw your conclusions...?

No, but the ones I do have are pretty fucking awesome, so I don't see the issue.

Plus there are converts to judaism that have been circumcised later in life, and I don't see much documentation on their complaints.

Gee I wonder if the rabbi sucks the adults penis as well? Do you know?

No idea. And that is only for really really orthodox groups, and those usually don't accept converts.

 

[martybegan]

If it's mutilation then it's a healthy form of mutilation. Fair enough?

No. Not really. "Fair" would be leaving their genitals intact, until they, themselves were old enough to make an informed decision, and decide for themselves.

So "no". Not fair enough...

Again, done to me, no complaints, non-issue.

I could be wrong but... I think the law in question had more people in mind than just you...

I have nothing against the law in question that makes FGM a felony crime in Michigan. What I have an issue with is comparing FGM with male circumcision. The two are not the same.

They're only not the same in that they're done to two different genders, ergo involve two different body parts. You can't very well cut the labia off a child that doesn't have them to cut.

I doubt that little bit of foreskin has as much to do with sexual pleasure as a labia does.

Again, I have no complaints.

 

[martybegan]

Actually... It is mutilation. And women's vaginas, also work after the circumcision. Not sure what your point was.

If it's mutilation then it's a healthy form of mutilation. Fair enough?

No. Not really. "Fair" would be leaving their genitals intact, until they, themselves were old enough to make an informed decision, and decide for themselves.

So "no". Not fair enough...

Your opinion is not consistent with popular medical point of view.

Never has "fairness" been an issue in the medical field.

Huh? Yes, but uncircumcised vs circumcised is. And it is widely accepted that uncircumcised is healthier.

Really? i've read that circumcised penises are easier to keep clean, and there is less of a chance of STD transmission.

 

[Rocko]

It's good to see Michigan dealing strongly with this. There are a large number of Muslims living in Michigan. The practice of slicing up the genitals of little girls will continue to go on. Toss the butchers in prison.

It is good to see, but it's got nothing to do with religion. This is an ancient (way ancient, way before the "major" religions) cultural practice. In Mecca in fact it's considered barbaric.

I didn't say it had anything to do with religion. The fact remains that there have been many cases of female genital mutilation in Michigan and it has involved Muslims.

In the same way it has involved Sagittarians or righthanded people.

Again -- it has no basis in religion, has no religious function, and long predates Islam, Christianism and Judaism. It's specific to geography, not religion.

Just as, for example Western women wear earrings or paint their fingernails. Again --- nothing to do with religion but if you surveyed women with painted fingernails you'd find a lot of Christians. From that you could conclude ------ nothing.

Tell us why muslims are doing them in droves, genius.

Hey, tell us why these indigenous Native Americans of Colombia and Panama do it....

​

--- or why is it done in Zimbabwe? Or among Coptic Christians?

Find me anywhere it's brought up in the Bible. OR the Quran.

It's also not in the Koran that you should blow little girls up at a concert. So what? Muslims are doing these things. No one does it more than them.

 

[Preacher]

The jew always gets special treatment.

Female genital mutilation now a 15-year felony in Michigan

july 11 2017 LANSING — Gov. Rick Snyder signed 13 bills Tuesday stemming from a case of female genital mutilation that happened in Livonia in April.

“Those who commit these horrendous crimes should be held accountable for their actions, and these bills stiffen the penalties for offenders while providing additional support to victims,” Snyder said. “This legislation is an important step toward eliminating this despicable practice in Michigan while empowering victims to find healing and justice.”

Under the main bill, female genital mutilation would be considered a felony in Michigan, punishable by up to 15 years in prison. That's a harsher penalty than the 1996 federal genital mutilation law, which includes a sentence of up to five years in prison. Michigan will join at least 24 other states that have passed anti-genital cutting laws over the last two decades.

One day male genital mutilation will be banned as well. Its barbaric and disgusting and violent. We only have 1 son but he was not mutilated and at 8.5 years old has NEVER had any issues with the decision. We got bullshit from my mother and grandmother but it was all noise....glad we made that decision,I remember sitting in the room after our last child was born and hearing a newborn next door being mutilated and it was absolutely awful.

 

[Rocko]

If it's mutilation then it's a healthy form of mutilation. Fair enough?

No. Not really. "Fair" would be leaving their genitals intact, until they, themselves were old enough to make an informed decision, and decide for themselves.

So "no". Not fair enough...

Your opinion is not consistent with popular medical point of view.

Never has "fairness" been an issue in the medical field.

Huh? Yes, but uncircumcised vs circumcised is. And it is widely accepted that uncircumcised is healthier.

Really? i've read that circumcised penises are easier to keep clean, and there is less of a chance of STD transmission.

I meant circumcised is healthier. Thanks.

 

[Compost]

It's good to see Michigan dealing strongly with this. There are a large number of Muslims living in Michigan. The practice of slicing up the genitals of little girls will continue to go on. Toss the butchers in prison.

It is good to see, but it's got nothing to do with religion. This is an ancient (way ancient, way before the "major" religions) cultural practice. In Mecca in fact it's considered barbaric.

I didn't say it had anything to do with religion. The fact remains that there have been many cases of female genital mutilation in Michigan and it has involved Muslims.

In the same way it has involved Sagittarians or righthanded people.

Again -- it has no basis in religion, has no religious function, and long predates Islam, Christianism and Judaism. It's specific to geography, not religion.

Just as, for example Western women wear earrings or paint their fingernails. Again --- nothing to do with religion but if you surveyed women with painted fingernails you'd find a lot of Christians. From that you could conclude ------ nothing.

Detroit emergency room physician Jumana Nagarwala, 44, was arrested April 12 and is currently in jail awaiting trial after a federal judge deemed her a flight risk and a threat to the community.
The three defendants belong to a "religious and cultural community" that investigators allege practices female genital mutilation on young girls -- a painful surgical procedure to remove part of the clitoris or clitoral hood to suppress female sexuality.
During a court hearing April 17, Nagarwala's defense attorney, Shannon Smith, told a judge the procedure did not involve cutting and was religious in nature, CNN affiliate WXYZ reported.
Smith argued the procedure is practiced by the Dawoodi Bohra, an Islamic sect based in India, and that the clinic was used to keep procedures sterile, WXYZ reported.
The Detroit Free Press reported from the hearing that Smith said her client removed membrane from the girls' genital area using a "scraper" as part of a religious practice. The girls' parents would then bury the membrane in the ground in accordance with their religious custom, Smith said, according to the Free Press account.

Michigan doctors charged in genital mutilation case - CNN.com

 

[martybegan]

No. Not really. "Fair" would be leaving their genitals intact, until they, themselves were old enough to make an informed decision, and decide for themselves.

So "no". Not fair enough...

Your opinion is not consistent with popular medical point of view.

Never has "fairness" been an issue in the medical field.

Huh? Yes, but uncircumcised vs circumcised is. And it is widely accepted that uncircumcised is healthier.

Really? i've read that circumcised penises are easier to keep clean, and there is less of a chance of STD transmission.

I ment circumcised is healthier. Thanks.

Ah.

 

[martybegan]

The jew always gets special treatment.

Female genital mutilation now a 15-year felony in Michigan

july 11 2017 LANSING — Gov. Rick Snyder signed 13 bills Tuesday stemming from a case of female genital mutilation that happened in Livonia in April.

“Those who commit these horrendous crimes should be held accountable for their actions, and these bills stiffen the penalties for offenders while providing additional support to victims,” Snyder said. “This legislation is an important step toward eliminating this despicable practice in Michigan while empowering victims to find healing and justice.”

Under the main bill, female genital mutilation would be considered a felony in Michigan, punishable by up to 15 years in prison. That's a harsher penalty than the 1996 federal genital mutilation law, which includes a sentence of up to five years in prison. Michigan will join at least 24 other states that have passed anti-genital cutting laws over the last two decades.

One day male genital mutilation will be banned as well. Its barbaric and disgusting and violent. We only have 1 son but he was not mutilated and at 8.5 years old has NEVER had any issues with the decision. We got bullshit from my mother and grandmother but it was all noise....glad we made that decision,I remember sitting in the room after our last child was born and hearing a newborn next door being mutilated and it was absolutely awful.

Why ban it? It's harmless. If you don't want to do it to your kids, don't do it.

If I have a son, he's getting snipped.

 

[Pogo]

This is ok? Its one thing to have it done in the hospital but quite another when done like this. Over 75% of males in the US are circumcised.

View attachment 138614

Is what ok?

SNL script, 1977 (video can't be found):

Spokesman: Introducing the 1978 Royal Deluxe II. A luxury name and a luxury ride at a middle-range price? Impossible? We've come to Temple Beth Shalom in Little Neck, New York, and asked Rabbi Mayer Taklas to circumcise 8-day-old Benjamin Kanter while riding in the back seat of the elegant Royal Deluxe II.

Performing circumcision is demanding. It requires a sure hand and a steady cutting surface. [ the car takes off ] To show you that our ride is the finest, sweetest in the world, we've deliberately picked this road because of its rough, uneven surface. This was an actual demonstration. Speed: 40 MPH.

The stylish Royal Deluxe II rides smooth because we built it right! [ the car drives over potholes ] Unique hydrodine suspension system, rack and pinion steering to ensure outstanding durability and control. And every new stylish Royal Deluxe II offers, as standard equipment, power front disc brakes.

[ a toy ball bounces into the street, as the car brakes sharply and we hear the baby cry after the Rabbi makes his final snip ]

Rabbi: Poifect!

Spokesman: You may never have to perform a circumcision in the Royal Deluxe II, but if you do, we're sure you'll agree with Rabbi Taklas..

Rabbi: That's a beautiful baby.. and a beautiful car!

Announcer: Royal Deluxe II. A beautiful car.

 

[Pogo]

It is good to see, but it's got nothing to do with religion. This is an ancient (way ancient, way before the "major" religions) cultural practice. In Mecca in fact it's considered barbaric.

I didn't say it had anything to do with religion. The fact remains that there have been many cases of female genital mutilation in Michigan and it has involved Muslims.

In the same way it has involved Sagittarians or righthanded people.

Again -- it has no basis in religion, has no religious function, and long predates Islam, Christianism and Judaism. It's specific to geography, not religion.

Just as, for example Western women wear earrings or paint their fingernails. Again --- nothing to do with religion but if you surveyed women with painted fingernails you'd find a lot of Christians. From that you could conclude ------ nothing.

Tell us why muslims are doing them in droves, genius.

Hey, tell us why these indigenous Native Americans of Colombia and Panama do it....

​

--- or why is it done in Zimbabwe? Or among Coptic Christians?

Find me anywhere it's brought up in the Bible. OR the Quran.

It's also not in the Koran that you should blow little girls up at a concert. So what? Muslims are doing these things. No one does it more than them.

Correct, it isn't. Nor is it in the Bible, and yet the IRA did it for decades.
Again, which tells us........... nothing.

When you finally take your Anthropology course be sure to ask for evidence of any people anywhere whose entire life, every act, is dicated by religion, where cultural tradition and politics has no influence. Then let us know here.

Oh and while you're at it take a course in logic and ask them about Association Fallacy.

Dumbass.

 

[depotoo]

In 2010, only 58% were being circumcised.

To your question of "sucking circumcision", making it sound like they bite the foreskin off, if reprehensible. It is carried out the same way as a hospital circumcision. The rabbi just removes the blood after, by cleaning by sucking it. Have there been a few that have resulted in issues? Yes, but very few. And many places are now putting in place policies to help avoid that minuscule few cases. An example-

While New York City wrestles with the issue, suburban Rockland County — itself home to thousands of Orthodox Jews — seems to have found a solution.

For any suspected case after circumcision, county health officials use DNA testing to try to link a baby with the source of infection. And members of the Jewish community participate voluntarily in the process, working with Dr. Oscar Alleyne, Rockland's director of epidemiology.

No positive cases have been found there.

"That proves that they trust us," Alleyne said. "We have cooperation, along with a scientific approach."

NYC, Orthodox Jews in talks over ritual after herpes cases

Would I have my children circumcised outside a hospital? No. If I were Orthodox Jew, probably.

This is ok? Its one thing to have it done in the hospital but quite another when done like this. Over 75% of males in the US are circumcised.

View attachment 138614

 

[Pogo]

It's good to see Michigan dealing strongly with this. There are a large number of Muslims living in Michigan. The practice of slicing up the genitals of little girls will continue to go on. Toss the butchers in prison.

It is good to see, but it's got nothing to do with religion. This is an ancient (way ancient, way before the "major" religions) cultural practice. In Mecca in fact it's considered barbaric.

I didn't say it had anything to do with religion. The fact remains that there have been many cases of female genital mutilation in Michigan and it has involved Muslims.

In the same way it has involved Sagittarians or righthanded people.

Again -- it has no basis in religion, has no religious function, and long predates Islam, Christianism and Judaism. It's specific to geography, not religion.

Just as, for example Western women wear earrings or paint their fingernails. Again --- nothing to do with religion but if you surveyed women with painted fingernails you'd find a lot of Christians. From that you could conclude ------ nothing.

Detroit emergency room physician Jumana Nagarwala, 44, was arrested April 12 and is currently in jail awaiting trial after a federal judge deemed her a flight risk and a threat to the community.
The three defendants belong to a "religious and cultural community" that investigators allege practices female genital mutilation on young girls -- a painful surgical procedure to remove part of the clitoris or clitoral hood to suppress female sexuality.
During a court hearing April 17, Nagarwala's defense attorney, Shannon Smith, told a judge the procedure did not involve cutting and was religious in nature, CNN affiliate WXYZ reported.
Smith argued the procedure is practiced by the Dawoodi Bohra, an Islamic sect based in India, and that the clinic was used to keep procedures sterile, WXYZ reported.
The Detroit Free Press reported from the hearing that Smith said her client removed membrane from the girls' genital area using a "scraper" as part of a religious practice. The girls' parents would then bury the membrane in the ground in accordance with their religious custom, Smith said, according to the Free Press account.

Michigan doctors charged in genital mutilation case - CNN.com

Hey, anybody can claim "religious ritual" to try to get off the hook. Doesn't make it magically retroactively appear in the history books.

Again, consider the source. This is the same argument that tries to say "Hitler was a socialist because that was the name of the party and Hitler would never lie".

>> . The practice predates Christianity and Islam... The accounts of historian Pietro Bembo, posthumously published in 1550, reported that most likely FC originated in Egypt and the Nile valley, then spread out to the Red Sea coastal tribes with Arab traders, and then spread into eastern Sudan”.
[4a]

Islam Watch, in an article dated 6 July 2007, reported: ”As a cultural practice, FGM has probably been in existence for thousands of years.

... Addressing the Islamic religious perspectives, a report of a conference, held in June 2006, ‘Female Genital Mutilation religious and legal perspectives’, published by Womankind stated: ”Islam participants argue forcefully that there is no justification for FGM in any Islamic texts or teachings. First, they mphasised that the practice is not even referred to in the Koran. It is referred to in one of the hadiths; however, as authoritative participants made clear, this hadith has been found to be weak and inauthentic” [34b]

The report continued: ”Secondly, participants noted that the key tenets of Muslim obligation are clearly asserted in the Koran and hadiths... Yet FGM is not even mentioned. Nor can FGM be justified on the basis of following the Prophet’s example; it is not stated that any of the Prophet’s wives and daughters had undergone the procedure”. [34b]

Then addressing Christian religious perspectives, the report continued: This Country of Origin Information Report contains the most up-to-date publicly available information as at 20 June 20085

Older source material has been included where it contains relevant information not available in more recent documents.

”Christian (Coptic) religious leaders also emphasised to the conference that there is no justification for FGM in Christian teachings; indeed, it is not even referred to in the Bible. The procedure is not undertaken as part of a religious ceremony, and no religious leader is present when it is performed. [34b]

The WHO, in its Key Facts paper of May 2008, noted: ”Local structures of power and authority, such as community leaders, religious leaders, circumcisers, and even some medical personnel can contribute to
upholding the practice. In most societies, FGM is considered a cultural tradition, which is often used as an argument for its continuation.--- FGM - UK Border Agency <<​

 

[Compost]

It's good to see Michigan dealing strongly with this. There are a large number of Muslims living in Michigan. The practice of slicing up the genitals of little girls will continue to go on. Toss the butchers in prison.

It is good to see, but it's got nothing to do with religion. This is an ancient (way ancient, way before the "major" religions) cultural practice. In Mecca in fact it's considered barbaric.

I didn't say it had anything to do with religion. The fact remains that there have been many cases of female genital mutilation in Michigan and it has involved Muslims.

In the same way it has involved Sagittarians or righthanded people.

Again -- it has no basis in religion, has no religious function, and long predates Islam, Christianism and Judaism. It's specific to geography, not religion.

Just as, for example Western women wear earrings or paint their fingernails. Again --- nothing to do with religion but if you surveyed women with painted fingernails you'd find a lot of Christians. From that you could conclude ------ nothing.

Detroit emergency room physician Jumana Nagarwala, 44, was arrested April 12 and is currently in jail awaiting trial after a federal judge deemed her a flight risk and a threat to the community.
The three defendants belong to a "religious and cultural community" that investigators allege practices female genital mutilation on young girls -- a painful surgical procedure to remove part of the clitoris or clitoral hood to suppress female sexuality.
During a court hearing April 17, Nagarwala's defense attorney, Shannon Smith, told a judge the procedure did not involve cutting and was religious in nature, CNN affiliate WXYZ reported.
Smith argued the procedure is practiced by the Dawoodi Bohra, an Islamic sect based in India, and that the clinic was used to keep procedures sterile, WXYZ reported.
The Detroit Free Press reported from the hearing that Smith said her client removed membrane from the girls' genital area using a "scraper" as part of a religious practice. The girls' parents would then bury the membrane in the ground in accordance with their religious custom, Smith said, according to the Free Press account.

Michigan doctors charged in genital mutilation case - CNN.com

Hey, anybody can claim "religious ritual" to try to get off the hook. Doesn't make it magically retroactively appear in the history books.

Again, consider the source. This is the same argument that tries to say "Hitler was a socialist because that was the name of the party and Hitler would never lie".

>> . The practice predates Christianity and Islam... The accounts of historian Pietro Bembo, posthumously published in 1550, reported that most likely FC originated in Egypt and the Nile valley, then spread out to the Red Sea coastal tribes with Arab traders, and then spread into eastern Sudan”.
[4a]

Islam Watch, in an article dated 6 July 2007, reported: ”As a cultural practice, FGM has probably been in existence for thousands of years.

... Addressing the Islamic religious perspectives, a report of a conference, held in June 2006, ‘Female Genital Mutilation religious and legal perspectives’, published by Womankind stated: ”Islam participants argue forcefully that there is no justification for FGM in any Islamic texts or teachings. First, they mphasised that the practice is not even referred to in the Koran. It is referred to in one of the hadiths; however, as authoritative participants made clear, this hadith has been found to be weak and inauthentic” [34b]

The report continued: ”Secondly, participants noted that the key tenets of Muslim obligation are clearly asserted in the Koran and hadiths... Yet FGM is not even mentioned. Nor can FGM be justified on the basis of following the Prophet’s example; it is not stated that any of the Prophet’s wives and daughters had undergone the procedure”. [34b]

Then addressing Christian religious perspectives, the report continued: This Country of Origin Information Report contains the most up-to-date publicly available information as at 20 June 20085

Older source material has been included where it contains relevant information not available in more recent documents.

”Christian (Coptic) religious leaders also emphasised to the conference that there is no justification for FGM in Christian teachings; indeed, it is not even referred to in the Bible. The procedure is not undertaken as part of a religious ceremony, and no religious leader is present when it is performed. [34b]

The WHO, in its Key Facts paper of May 2008, noted: ”Local structures of power and authority, such as community leaders, religious leaders, circumcisers, and even some medical personnel can contribute to
upholding the practice. In most societies, FGM is considered a cultural tradition, which is often used as an argument for its continuation.--- FGM - UK Border Agency <<​

That's all very interesting. The fact remains that the people involved in the recent Michigan female genital mutilation incidents were Muslim.

 

[Pogo]

It is good to see, but it's got nothing to do with religion. This is an ancient (way ancient, way before the "major" religions) cultural practice. In Mecca in fact it's considered barbaric.

I didn't say it had anything to do with religion. The fact remains that there have been many cases of female genital mutilation in Michigan and it has involved Muslims.

In the same way it has involved Sagittarians or righthanded people.

Again -- it has no basis in religion, has no religious function, and long predates Islam, Christianism and Judaism. It's specific to geography, not religion.

Just as, for example Western women wear earrings or paint their fingernails. Again --- nothing to do with religion but if you surveyed women with painted fingernails you'd find a lot of Christians. From that you could conclude ------ nothing.

Detroit emergency room physician Jumana Nagarwala, 44, was arrested April 12 and is currently in jail awaiting trial after a federal judge deemed her a flight risk and a threat to the community.
The three defendants belong to a "religious and cultural community" that investigators allege practices female genital mutilation on young girls -- a painful surgical procedure to remove part of the clitoris or clitoral hood to suppress female sexuality.
During a court hearing April 17, Nagarwala's defense attorney, Shannon Smith, told a judge the procedure did not involve cutting and was religious in nature, CNN affiliate WXYZ reported.
Smith argued the procedure is practiced by the Dawoodi Bohra, an Islamic sect based in India, and that the clinic was used to keep procedures sterile, WXYZ reported.
The Detroit Free Press reported from the hearing that Smith said her client removed membrane from the girls' genital area using a "scraper" as part of a religious practice. The girls' parents would then bury the membrane in the ground in accordance with their religious custom, Smith said, according to the Free Press account.

Michigan doctors charged in genital mutilation case - CNN.com

Hey, anybody can claim "religious ritual" to try to get off the hook. Doesn't make it magically retroactively appear in the history books.

Again, consider the source. This is the same argument that tries to say "Hitler was a socialist because that was the name of the party and Hitler would never lie".

>> . The practice predates Christianity and Islam... The accounts of historian Pietro Bembo, posthumously published in 1550, reported that most likely FC originated in Egypt and the Nile valley, then spread out to the Red Sea coastal tribes with Arab traders, and then spread into eastern Sudan”.
[4a]

Islam Watch, in an article dated 6 July 2007, reported: ”As a cultural practice, FGM has probably been in existence for thousands of years.

... Addressing the Islamic religious perspectives, a report of a conference, held in June 2006, ‘Female Genital Mutilation religious and legal perspectives’, published by Womankind stated: ”Islam participants argue forcefully that there is no justification for FGM in any Islamic texts or teachings. First, they mphasised that the practice is not even referred to in the Koran. It is referred to in one of the hadiths; however, as authoritative participants made clear, this hadith has been found to be weak and inauthentic” [34b]

The report continued: ”Secondly, participants noted that the key tenets of Muslim obligation are clearly asserted in the Koran and hadiths... Yet FGM is not even mentioned. Nor can FGM be justified on the basis of following the Prophet’s example; it is not stated that any of the Prophet’s wives and daughters had undergone the procedure”. [34b]

Then addressing Christian religious perspectives, the report continued: This Country of Origin Information Report contains the most up-to-date publicly available information as at 20 June 20085

Older source material has been included where it contains relevant information not available in more recent documents.

”Christian (Coptic) religious leaders also emphasised to the conference that there is no justification for FGM in Christian teachings; indeed, it is not even referred to in the Bible. The procedure is not undertaken as part of a religious ceremony, and no religious leader is present when it is performed. [34b]

The WHO, in its Key Facts paper of May 2008, noted: ”Local structures of power and authority, such as community leaders, religious leaders, circumcisers, and even some medical personnel can contribute to
upholding the practice. In most societies, FGM is considered a cultural tradition, which is often used as an argument for its continuation.--- FGM - UK Border Agency <<​

That's all very interesting. The fact remains that the people involved in the Michigan female genital mutilation incidents were Muslim.

But you didn't stop to ask "from where" now did you.

Again, take that same Anthro course I sent Rocko to and tell us where there exists a people whose every act is dictated by religion --- and not by culutre, by geopolitics, by economics, etc.

Or just look up what "Association Fallacy" means.

Hey, the IRA were Catholics. The Klan were Protestants. What shall we conclude there by way of causation?

 

[Compost]

I didn't say it had anything to do with religion. The fact remains that there have been many cases of female genital mutilation in Michigan and it has involved Muslims.

In the same way it has involved Sagittarians or righthanded people.

Again -- it has no basis in religion, has no religious function, and long predates Islam, Christianism and Judaism. It's specific to geography, not religion.

Just as, for example Western women wear earrings or paint their fingernails. Again --- nothing to do with religion but if you surveyed women with painted fingernails you'd find a lot of Christians. From that you could conclude ------ nothing.

Detroit emergency room physician Jumana Nagarwala, 44, was arrested April 12 and is currently in jail awaiting trial after a federal judge deemed her a flight risk and a threat to the community.
The three defendants belong to a "religious and cultural community" that investigators allege practices female genital mutilation on young girls -- a painful surgical procedure to remove part of the clitoris or clitoral hood to suppress female sexuality.
During a court hearing April 17, Nagarwala's defense attorney, Shannon Smith, told a judge the procedure did not involve cutting and was religious in nature, CNN affiliate WXYZ reported.
Smith argued the procedure is practiced by the Dawoodi Bohra, an Islamic sect based in India, and that the clinic was used to keep procedures sterile, WXYZ reported.
The Detroit Free Press reported from the hearing that Smith said her client removed membrane from the girls' genital area using a "scraper" as part of a religious practice. The girls' parents would then bury the membrane in the ground in accordance with their religious custom, Smith said, according to the Free Press account.

Michigan doctors charged in genital mutilation case - CNN.com

Hey, anybody can claim "religious ritual" to try to get off the hook. Doesn't make it magically retroactively appear in the history books.

Again, consider the source. This is the same argument that tries to say "Hitler was a socialist because that was the name of the party and Hitler would never lie".

>> . The practice predates Christianity and Islam... The accounts of historian Pietro Bembo, posthumously published in 1550, reported that most likely FC originated in Egypt and the Nile valley, then spread out to the Red Sea coastal tribes with Arab traders, and then spread into eastern Sudan”.
[4a]

Islam Watch, in an article dated 6 July 2007, reported: ”As a cultural practice, FGM has probably been in existence for thousands of years.

... Addressing the Islamic religious perspectives, a report of a conference, held in June 2006, ‘Female Genital Mutilation religious and legal perspectives’, published by Womankind stated: ”Islam participants argue forcefully that there is no justification for FGM in any Islamic texts or teachings. First, they mphasised that the practice is not even referred to in the Koran. It is referred to in one of the hadiths; however, as authoritative participants made clear, this hadith has been found to be weak and inauthentic” [34b]

The report continued: ”Secondly, participants noted that the key tenets of Muslim obligation are clearly asserted in the Koran and hadiths... Yet FGM is not even mentioned. Nor can FGM be justified on the basis of following the Prophet’s example; it is not stated that any of the Prophet’s wives and daughters had undergone the procedure”. [34b]

Then addressing Christian religious perspectives, the report continued: This Country of Origin Information Report contains the most up-to-date publicly available information as at 20 June 20085

Older source material has been included where it contains relevant information not available in more recent documents.

”Christian (Coptic) religious leaders also emphasised to the conference that there is no justification for FGM in Christian teachings; indeed, it is not even referred to in the Bible. The procedure is not undertaken as part of a religious ceremony, and no religious leader is present when it is performed. [34b]

The WHO, in its Key Facts paper of May 2008, noted: ”Local structures of power and authority, such as community leaders, religious leaders, circumcisers, and even some medical personnel can contribute to
upholding the practice. In most societies, FGM is considered a cultural tradition, which is often used as an argument for its continuation.--- FGM - UK Border Agency <<​

That's all very interesting. The fact remains that the people involved in the Michigan female genital mutilation incidents were Muslim.

But you didn't stop to ask "from where" now did you.

Again, take that same Anthro course I sent Rocko to and tell us where there exists a people whose every act is dictated by religion --- and not by culutre, by geopolitics, by economics, etc.

Or just look up what "Association Fallacy" means.

Hey, the IRA were Catholics. The Klan were Protestants. What shall we conclude there by way of causation?

What are you ranting about?! Where did I say all Muslims mutilate little girls?! The Michigan case details are that the perps are Muslims and they, by their own admission, were practicing a religious and cultural tradition in "shaving" little girl's labias. You can spout your association fallacy line all you want. You are denying reality .

 

[depotoo]

Who cares what religion, or otherwise, or where, female genital mutilation is wrong. It has no health benefits such as circumcision does.

I didn't say it had anything to do with religion. The fact remains that there have been many cases of female genital mutilation in Michigan and it has involved Muslims.

In the same way it has involved Sagittarians or righthanded people.

Again -- it has no basis in religion, has no religious function, and long predates Islam, Christianism and Judaism. It's specific to geography, not religion.

Just as, for example Western women wear earrings or paint their fingernails. Again --- nothing to do with religion but if you surveyed women with painted fingernails you'd find a lot of Christians. From that you could conclude ------ nothing.

Detroit emergency room physician Jumana Nagarwala, 44, was arrested April 12 and is currently in jail awaiting trial after a federal judge deemed her a flight risk and a threat to the community.
The three defendants belong to a "religious and cultural community" that investigators allege practices female genital mutilation on young girls -- a painful surgical procedure to remove part of the clitoris or clitoral hood to suppress female sexuality.
During a court hearing April 17, Nagarwala's defense attorney, Shannon Smith, told a judge the procedure did not involve cutting and was religious in nature, CNN affiliate WXYZ reported.
Smith argued the procedure is practiced by the Dawoodi Bohra, an Islamic sect based in India, and that the clinic was used to keep procedures sterile, WXYZ reported.
The Detroit Free Press reported from the hearing that Smith said her client removed membrane from the girls' genital area using a "scraper" as part of a religious practice. The girls' parents would then bury the membrane in the ground in accordance with their religious custom, Smith said, according to the Free Press account.

Michigan doctors charged in genital mutilation case - CNN.com

Hey, anybody can claim "religious ritual" to try to get off the hook. Doesn't make it magically retroactively appear in the history books.

Again, consider the source. This is the same argument that tries to say "Hitler was a socialist because that was the name of the party and Hitler would never lie".

>> . The practice predates Christianity and Islam... The accounts of historian Pietro Bembo, posthumously published in 1550, reported that most likely FC originated in Egypt and the Nile valley, then spread out to the Red Sea coastal tribes with Arab traders, and then spread into eastern Sudan”.
[4a]

Islam Watch, in an article dated 6 July 2007, reported: ”As a cultural practice, FGM has probably been in existence for thousands of years.

... Addressing the Islamic religious perspectives, a report of a conference, held in June 2006, ‘Female Genital Mutilation religious and legal perspectives’, published by Womankind stated: ”Islam participants argue forcefully that there is no justification for FGM in any Islamic texts or teachings. First, they mphasised that the practice is not even referred to in the Koran. It is referred to in one of the hadiths; however, as authoritative participants made clear, this hadith has been found to be weak and inauthentic” [34b]

The report continued: ”Secondly, participants noted that the key tenets of Muslim obligation are clearly asserted in the Koran and hadiths... Yet FGM is not even mentioned. Nor can FGM be justified on the basis of following the Prophet’s example; it is not stated that any of the Prophet’s wives and daughters had undergone the procedure”. [34b]

Then addressing Christian religious perspectives, the report continued: This Country of Origin Information Report contains the most up-to-date publicly available information as at 20 June 20085

Older source material has been included where it contains relevant information not available in more recent documents.

”Christian (Coptic) religious leaders also emphasised to the conference that there is no justification for FGM in Christian teachings; indeed, it is not even referred to in the Bible. The procedure is not undertaken as part of a religious ceremony, and no religious leader is present when it is performed. [34b]

The WHO, in its Key Facts paper of May 2008, noted: ”Local structures of power and authority, such as community leaders, religious leaders, circumcisers, and even some medical personnel can contribute to
upholding the practice. In most societies, FGM is considered a cultural tradition, which is often used as an argument for its continuation.--- FGM - UK Border Agency <<​

That's all very interesting. The fact remains that the people involved in the Michigan female genital mutilation incidents were Muslim.

But you didn't stop to ask "from where" now did you.

Again, take that same Anthro course I sent Rocko to and tell us where there exists a people whose every act is dictated by religion --- and not by culutre, by geopolitics, by economics, etc.

Or just look up what "Association Fallacy" means.

Hey, the IRA were Catholics. The Klan were Protestants. What shall we conclude there by way of causation?

 

[Pogo]

In the same way it has involved Sagittarians or righthanded people.

Again -- it has no basis in religion, has no religious function, and long predates Islam, Christianism and Judaism. It's specific to geography, not religion.

Just as, for example Western women wear earrings or paint their fingernails. Again --- nothing to do with religion but if you surveyed women with painted fingernails you'd find a lot of Christians. From that you could conclude ------ nothing.

Detroit emergency room physician Jumana Nagarwala, 44, was arrested April 12 and is currently in jail awaiting trial after a federal judge deemed her a flight risk and a threat to the community.
The three defendants belong to a "religious and cultural community" that investigators allege practices female genital mutilation on young girls -- a painful surgical procedure to remove part of the clitoris or clitoral hood to suppress female sexuality.
During a court hearing April 17, Nagarwala's defense attorney, Shannon Smith, told a judge the procedure did not involve cutting and was religious in nature, CNN affiliate WXYZ reported.
Smith argued the procedure is practiced by the Dawoodi Bohra, an Islamic sect based in India, and that the clinic was used to keep procedures sterile, WXYZ reported.
The Detroit Free Press reported from the hearing that Smith said her client removed membrane from the girls' genital area using a "scraper" as part of a religious practice. The girls' parents would then bury the membrane in the ground in accordance with their religious custom, Smith said, according to the Free Press account.

Michigan doctors charged in genital mutilation case - CNN.com

Hey, anybody can claim "religious ritual" to try to get off the hook. Doesn't make it magically retroactively appear in the history books.

Again, consider the source. This is the same argument that tries to say "Hitler was a socialist because that was the name of the party and Hitler would never lie".

>> . The practice predates Christianity and Islam... The accounts of historian Pietro Bembo, posthumously published in 1550, reported that most likely FC originated in Egypt and the Nile valley, then spread out to the Red Sea coastal tribes with Arab traders, and then spread into eastern Sudan”.
[4a]

Islam Watch, in an article dated 6 July 2007, reported: ”As a cultural practice, FGM has probably been in existence for thousands of years.

... Addressing the Islamic religious perspectives, a report of a conference, held in June 2006, ‘Female Genital Mutilation religious and legal perspectives’, published by Womankind stated: ”Islam participants argue forcefully that there is no justification for FGM in any Islamic texts or teachings. First, they mphasised that the practice is not even referred to in the Koran. It is referred to in one of the hadiths; however, as authoritative participants made clear, this hadith has been found to be weak and inauthentic” [34b]

The report continued: ”Secondly, participants noted that the key tenets of Muslim obligation are clearly asserted in the Koran and hadiths... Yet FGM is not even mentioned. Nor can FGM be justified on the basis of following the Prophet’s example; it is not stated that any of the Prophet’s wives and daughters had undergone the procedure”. [34b]

Then addressing Christian religious perspectives, the report continued: This Country of Origin Information Report contains the most up-to-date publicly available information as at 20 June 20085

Older source material has been included where it contains relevant information not available in more recent documents.

”Christian (Coptic) religious leaders also emphasised to the conference that there is no justification for FGM in Christian teachings; indeed, it is not even referred to in the Bible. The procedure is not undertaken as part of a religious ceremony, and no religious leader is present when it is performed. [34b]

The WHO, in its Key Facts paper of May 2008, noted: ”Local structures of power and authority, such as community leaders, religious leaders, circumcisers, and even some medical personnel can contribute to
upholding the practice. In most societies, FGM is considered a cultural tradition, which is often used as an argument for its continuation.--- FGM - UK Border Agency <<​

That's all very interesting. The fact remains that the people involved in the Michigan female genital mutilation incidents were Muslim.

But you didn't stop to ask "from where" now did you.

Again, take that same Anthro course I sent Rocko to and tell us where there exists a people whose every act is dictated by religion --- and not by culutre, by geopolitics, by economics, etc.

Or just look up what "Association Fallacy" means.

Hey, the IRA were Catholics. The Klan were Protestants. What shall we conclude there by way of causation?

What are you ranting about?! They are Muslims and they, by their own admission, were practicing a religious and cultural tradition in "shaving" little girl's labias. You can spout your association fallacy line all you want. You are denying reality.

Would you prefer "Causation Fallacy"? Same thing.

Hey, if you're trying to tell the class that FGM is an religious thing --- quit pussyfooting and show your evidence. And by "evidence" I mean credible evidence, not some clown trying to get off the hook with an excuse where he thinks he can hide behind the First Amendment on what is already defined as a cultural practice. Go ahead, quote the Quran on FGM. Quote the Bible.

You won't. Because there isn't any. Because just as with the whole "honor killing" bullshit, this was around thousands of years before Jesus or Mohammed.

 

[Pogo]

Who cares what religion, or otherwise, or where, female genital mutilation is wrong.

Apparently the desciptively-named poster "Compost" does. He's trying to make exactly that point, while simultaneously wimping out on the fact that he IS making it.

 

[depotoo]

Well, it is mainly practiced by muslims today, ya know. That fact is pretty well known.

Who cares what religion, or otherwise, or where, female genital mutilation is wrong.

Apparently the desciptively-named poster "Compost" does. He's trying to make exactly that point, while simultaneously wimping out on the fact that he IS making it.