middle class, educated and hungry

[Common Sense]

They don't have a lower marginal tax rate than someone making 1/3 of what they do.

They have a 33% marginal federal tax rate, a 10% marginal state tax rate in CA, plus 1.45% for Medicare and a loss of deductions due to AMT.

Learn some math, you idiot.

No wonder he exists on the fringe... Probably needs a calculator to figure tips on his annual dining out adventure!

He didn't even read the article. Here are some interesting bits:

Individual tax rates vary widely based on how much a taxpayer earns, where the person lives and other factors. On average, though, the tax rate paid by all Americans — rich and poor, combined — has fallen 26% since the recession began in 2007. That means a $3,400 annual tax savings for a household paying the average national rate and earning the average national household income of $102,000.

This tax drop has boosted consumer spending and the economy, which grew at a 3.2% annual rate in the first quarter. It also has contributed to the federal debt growing to $8.4 trillion.

Taxes paid have fallen much faster than income in this recession. Personal income fell 2% last year. Taxes paid dropped 23%. The BEA classifies Social Security taxes as insurance payments and excludes them from the tax calculation.

Why the tax bite has eased:

• Stimulus law. One-third of last year's $862 billion economic stimulus went for tax cuts. Biggest reduction: The Making Work Pay tax credit reduced income taxes $800 for married couples earning up to $150,000.

• Progressive tax rates. Presidents Clinton and Bush pushed through a series of tax changes — credits, lower rates, higher exemptions — that slashed income taxes for poor and middle-class families. A drop in income now can trigger big tax breaks and sharply lower rates, sometimes falling to zero.

• Sales tax. Consumers cut spending sharply in this downturn, thereby paying less in sales taxes.


Net net - tax receipts fell because people are earning less money, the stimulus bill paid out credits to people making $150K or less, people are spending less money, and SS taxes are not included as taxes. And let's not forget the big increase in the Unemployed who don't pay taxes.

wait wait wait.... so youre saying the stimulus now worked?????? i thought it was all fake and Obama passed the stimulus simply to drive up the debt?

 

[boedicca]

no they shouldnt just be rewarded with a marginal tax rate lower than that of someone who makes 1/3 of what they do.

we do not pay high taxes in the US:

Tax bills in 2009 at lowest level since 1950 - USATODAY.com

"Federal, state and local income taxes consumed 9.2% of all personal income in 2009, the lowest rate since 1950"

Now we get to the crux of it all..... ENVY and JEALOUSY.

How pathetic. Who did this to you?

the small business owner who cut my pay and everyone else at the company by 30%, citing falling revenues, and then behind everyone's back she took a 200% raise for herself. so dont tell me all "small business" owners are getting the short end of the stick when they control everything and can punish the people who work hard for them.

It's her business and you are free to find a job elsewhere if she is paying you below your market worth.

I'd be curious to know, however, what the absolute dollars are for the payroll she cut or if she just cut your hours and is paying you the same per hour rate - and what her 200% increase was.

 

[hboats]

no they shouldnt just be rewarded with a marginal tax rate lower than that of someone who makes 1/3 of what they do.

we do not pay high taxes in the US:

Tax bills in 2009 at lowest level since 1950 - USATODAY.com

"Federal, state and local income taxes consumed 9.2% of all personal income in 2009, the lowest rate since 1950"

Now we get to the crux of it all..... ENVY and JEALOUSY.

How pathetic. Who did this to you?

the small business owner who cut my pay and everyone else at the company by 30%, citing falling revenues, and then behind everyone's back she took a 200% raise for herself. so dont tell me all "small business" owners are getting the short end of the stick when they control everything and can punish the people who work hard for them.

Who's business is it again?

And you know for a fact that this business owner took a 200% raise? Or are you basing that on rumors?

Maybe you need to keep your mind on your work and not worry about what everyone else around you is doing/making.

Rick

 

[boedicca]

No wonder he exists on the fringe... Probably needs a calculator to figure tips on his annual dining out adventure!

He didn't even read the article. Here are some interesting bits:

Individual tax rates vary widely based on how much a taxpayer earns, where the person lives and other factors. On average, though, the tax rate paid by all Americans — rich and poor, combined — has fallen 26% since the recession began in 2007. That means a $3,400 annual tax savings for a household paying the average national rate and earning the average national household income of $102,000.

This tax drop has boosted consumer spending and the economy, which grew at a 3.2% annual rate in the first quarter. It also has contributed to the federal debt growing to $8.4 trillion.

Taxes paid have fallen much faster than income in this recession. Personal income fell 2% last year. Taxes paid dropped 23%. The BEA classifies Social Security taxes as insurance payments and excludes them from the tax calculation.

Why the tax bite has eased:

• Stimulus law. One-third of last year's $862 billion economic stimulus went for tax cuts. Biggest reduction: The Making Work Pay tax credit reduced income taxes $800 for married couples earning up to $150,000.

• Progressive tax rates. Presidents Clinton and Bush pushed through a series of tax changes — credits, lower rates, higher exemptions — that slashed income taxes for poor and middle-class families. A drop in income now can trigger big tax breaks and sharply lower rates, sometimes falling to zero.

• Sales tax. Consumers cut spending sharply in this downturn, thereby paying less in sales taxes.


Net net - tax receipts fell because people are earning less money, the stimulus bill paid out credits to people making $150K or less, people are spending less money, and SS taxes are not included as taxes. And let's not forget the big increase in the Unemployed who don't pay taxes.

wait wait wait.... so youre saying the stimulus now worked?????? i thought it was all fake and Obama passed the stimulus simply to drive up the debt?

Your reading comprehension is sorely lacking.

 

[Common Sense]

Now we get to the crux of it all..... ENVY and JEALOUSY.

How pathetic. Who did this to you?

the small business owner who cut my pay and everyone else at the company by 30%, citing falling revenues, and then behind everyone's back she took a 200% raise for herself. so dont tell me all "small business" owners are getting the short end of the stick when they control everything and can punish the people who work hard for them.

It's her business and you are free to find a job elsewhere if she is paying you below your market worth.

I'd be curious to know, however, what the absolute dollars are for the payroll she cut and what her 200% increase was.

she cut 30% across the board from 15 employees which equated to about $385,000 and gave herself a $250,000 raise. but i thought we shouldnt penalize these poor small business owners who cant afford to hire........

great answer, so the fact the it took a few months and a law suit to uncover this has nothing to do with this? and revenues didnt fall as much as she claimed. she simply used it as an excuse to give herself a raise because she was selfish and wanted more $.

arent they suppose to be the job creators? the ones who put everyone to work? not chase people away and drive down the economy? but its ok, because she will pay less in taxes on her raise, than everyone else would have combined if they money was still in their salary.

 

[Common Sense]

He didn't even read the article. Here are some interesting bits:

Individual tax rates vary widely based on how much a taxpayer earns, where the person lives and other factors. On average, though, the tax rate paid by all Americans — rich and poor, combined — has fallen 26% since the recession began in 2007. That means a $3,400 annual tax savings for a household paying the average national rate and earning the average national household income of $102,000.

This tax drop has boosted consumer spending and the economy, which grew at a 3.2% annual rate in the first quarter. It also has contributed to the federal debt growing to $8.4 trillion.

Taxes paid have fallen much faster than income in this recession. Personal income fell 2% last year. Taxes paid dropped 23%. The BEA classifies Social Security taxes as insurance payments and excludes them from the tax calculation.

Why the tax bite has eased:

• Stimulus law. One-third of last year's $862 billion economic stimulus went for tax cuts. Biggest reduction: The Making Work Pay tax credit reduced income taxes $800 for married couples earning up to $150,000.

• Progressive tax rates. Presidents Clinton and Bush pushed through a series of tax changes — credits, lower rates, higher exemptions — that slashed income taxes for poor and middle-class families. A drop in income now can trigger big tax breaks and sharply lower rates, sometimes falling to zero.

• Sales tax. Consumers cut spending sharply in this downturn, thereby paying less in sales taxes.


Net net - tax receipts fell because people are earning less money, the stimulus bill paid out credits to people making $150K or less, people are spending less money, and SS taxes are not included as taxes. And let's not forget the big increase in the Unemployed who don't pay taxes.

wait wait wait.... so youre saying the stimulus now worked?????? i thought it was all fake and Obama passed the stimulus simply to drive up the debt?

Your reading comprehension is sorely lacking.

"This tax drop has boosted consumer spending and the economy, which grew at a 3.2% annual rate in the first quarter."

isnt that what Obama said the stimulus would do? boost consumer spending, thus boosting the economy?

 

[boedicca]

the small business owner who cut my pay and everyone else at the company by 30%, citing falling revenues, and then behind everyone's back she took a 200% raise for herself. so dont tell me all "small business" owners are getting the short end of the stick when they control everything and can punish the people who work hard for them.

It's her business and you are free to find a job elsewhere if she is paying you below your market worth.

I'd be curious to know, however, what the absolute dollars are for the payroll she cut and what her 200% increase was.

she cut 30% across the board from 15 employees which equated to about $385,000 and gave herself a $250,000 raise. but i thought we shouldnt penalize these poor small business owners who cant afford to hire........

great answer, so the fact the it took a few months and a law suit to uncover this has nothing to do with this? and revenues didnt fall as much as she claimed. she simply used it as an excuse to give herself a raise because she was selfish and wanted more $.

It's her business. She gets to decide how to spend the revenues earned. If she has paid your wages in full based on your former and just cut what she is willing to pay you in the future, then that is her right. If she cut your pay retroactively, then that is very dishonest.

 

[hboats]

the small business owner who cut my pay and everyone else at the company by 30%, citing falling revenues, and then behind everyone's back she took a 200% raise for herself. so dont tell me all "small business" owners are getting the short end of the stick when they control everything and can punish the people who work hard for them.

It's her business and you are free to find a job elsewhere if she is paying you below your market worth.

I'd be curious to know, however, what the absolute dollars are for the payroll she cut and what her 200% increase was.

she cut 30% across the board from 15 employees which equated to about $385,000 and gave herself a $250,000 raise. but i thought we shouldnt penalize these poor small business owners who cant afford to hire........

great answer, so the fact the it took a few months and a law suit to uncover this has nothing to do with this? and revenues didnt fall as much as she claimed. she simply used it as an excuse to give herself a raise because she was selfish and wanted more $.

So, what you're saying is that 15 people had their pay cut by an average of $25,666 a year? And you continued to work there?

Well, you say there was a lawsuit over it, so I'm assuming that you can prove it by posting the court documents here, because I really have a hard time believing that 15 people would have their salaries cut by $25k and still be around to work for that company.

Rick

 

[Common Sense]

It's her business and you are free to find a job elsewhere if she is paying you below your market worth.

I'd be curious to know, however, what the absolute dollars are for the payroll she cut and what her 200% increase was.

she cut 30% across the board from 15 employees which equated to about $385,000 and gave herself a $250,000 raise. but i thought we shouldnt penalize these poor small business owners who cant afford to hire........

great answer, so the fact the it took a few months and a law suit to uncover this has nothing to do with this? and revenues didnt fall as much as she claimed. she simply used it as an excuse to give herself a raise because she was selfish and wanted more $.

It's her business. She gets to decide how to spend the revenues earned. If she has paid your wages in full based on your former and just cut what she is willing to pay you in the future, then that is her right. If she cut your pay retroactively, then that is very dishonest.

so cutting jobs and salaries in order to increase her own pay is ok?

 

[boedicca]

wait wait wait.... so youre saying the stimulus now worked?????? i thought it was all fake and Obama passed the stimulus simply to drive up the debt?

Your reading comprehension is sorely lacking.

"This tax drop has boosted consumer spending and the economy, which grew at a 3.2% annual rate in the first quarter."

isnt that what Obama said the stimulus would do? boost consumer spending, thus boosting the economy?

And then growth dropped in Q2, and in Q3. We're on track for annual GDP growth of 2.5%, which is less than half of what it should be considering how many months since the supposed end of the recession.

Temporary tax breaks don't fuel economic growth. They are gimmicks - just like the Cash for Clunkers program. They pull a bit of demand forward, and then evaporate.

 

[boedicca]

she cut 30% across the board from 15 employees which equated to about $385,000 and gave herself a $250,000 raise. but i thought we shouldnt penalize these poor small business owners who cant afford to hire........

great answer, so the fact the it took a few months and a law suit to uncover this has nothing to do with this? and revenues didnt fall as much as she claimed. she simply used it as an excuse to give herself a raise because she was selfish and wanted more $.

It's her business. She gets to decide how to spend the revenues earned. If she has paid your wages in full based on your former and just cut what she is willing to pay you in the future, then that is her right. If she cut your pay retroactively, then that is very dishonest.

so cutting jobs and salaries in order to increase her own pay is ok?

Yes. She owns the business. She is perfectly free to run it the way she wants as long as she is committing neither theft nor fraud. If you aren't willing to work for the pay she is offering you, then find another job and quit.

 

[Common Sense]

Your reading comprehension is sorely lacking.

"This tax drop has boosted consumer spending and the economy, which grew at a 3.2% annual rate in the first quarter."

isnt that what Obama said the stimulus would do? boost consumer spending, thus boosting the economy?

And then growth dropped in Q2, and in Q3. We're on track for annual GDP growth of 2.5%, which is less than half of what it should be considering how many months since the supposed end of the recession.

Temporary tax breaks don't fuel economic growth. They are gimmicks - just like the Cash for Clunkers program. They pull a bit of demand forward, and then evaporate.

so now your saying tax cuts dont contribute to economic growth?
wait which one is it? and the bush tax cuts were in effect for the last 10 years. im still wondering why they didnt keep us out of the recession? or why they havent pulled us out just yet?

 

[Common Sense]

It's her business. She gets to decide how to spend the revenues earned. If she has paid your wages in full based on your former and just cut what she is willing to pay you in the future, then that is her right. If she cut your pay retroactively, then that is very dishonest.

so cutting jobs and salaries in order to increase her own pay is ok?

Yes. She owns the business. She is perfectly free to run it the way she wants as long as she is committing neither theft nor fraud. If you aren't willing to work for the pay she is offering you, then find another job and quit.

oh i did leave and went somewhere else. but you see my point. repubs champion the "small business owner" who cant hire because of falling revenues and and uncertain economy. yet my example of a small business owner punishing her employees out of greed is perfectly fine. so we need to give someone like more tax breaks, just so she can take home more money? and thats suppose to stimulate the economy?

 

[boedicca]

"This tax drop has boosted consumer spending and the economy, which grew at a 3.2% annual rate in the first quarter."

isnt that what Obama said the stimulus would do? boost consumer spending, thus boosting the economy?

And then growth dropped in Q2, and in Q3. We're on track for annual GDP growth of 2.5%, which is less than half of what it should be considering how many months since the supposed end of the recession.

Temporary tax breaks don't fuel economic growth. They are gimmicks - just like the Cash for Clunkers program. They pull a bit of demand forward, and then evaporate.

so now your saying tax cuts dont contribute to economic growth?
wait which one is it? and the bush tax cuts were in effect for the last 10 years. im still wondering why they didnt keep us out of the recession? or why they havent pulled us out just yet?

You are One Dim Bulb.

Temporary tax rebates and credits are gimmicks. They do not affect long term growth.

Tax cuts with a long term horizon do affect growth. Business owners need this type of stability to feel comfortable that they will earn a decent return on investment.

As I have noted frequently, tax cuts alone are not enough. In addition we need:

- Cuts in spending so that government outlays do not exceed receipts.
- Sound monetary policy.
- Enforcement of the rule of law and restraint of the regulatory bureaucracy to not subvert it.

 

[boedicca]

so cutting jobs and salaries in order to increase her own pay is ok?

Yes. She owns the business. She is perfectly free to run it the way she wants as long as she is committing neither theft nor fraud. If you aren't willing to work for the pay she is offering you, then find another job and quit.

oh i did leave and went somewhere else. but you see my point. repubs champion the "small business owner" who cant hire because of falling revenues and and uncertain economy. yet my example of a small business owner punishing her employees out of greed is perfectly fine. so we need to give someone like more tax breaks, just so she can take home more money? and thats suppose to stimulate the economy?

Good for you. And now she can hire somebody who is willing to work for what she wishes to pay, and everybody wins.

 

[Common Sense]

And then growth dropped in Q2, and in Q3. We're on track for annual GDP growth of 2.5%, which is less than half of what it should be considering how many months since the supposed end of the recession.

Temporary tax breaks don't fuel economic growth. They are gimmicks - just like the Cash for Clunkers program. They pull a bit of demand forward, and then evaporate.

so now your saying tax cuts dont contribute to economic growth?
wait which one is it? and the bush tax cuts were in effect for the last 10 years. im still wondering why they didnt keep us out of the recession? or why they havent pulled us out just yet?

You are One Dim Bulb.

Temporary tax rebates and credits are gimmicks. They do not affect long term growth.

Tax cuts with a long term horizon do affect growth. Business owners need this type of stability to feel comfortable that they will earn a decent return on investment.

As I have noted frequently, tax cuts alone are not enough. In addition we need:

- Cuts in spending so that government outlays do not exceed receipts.
- Sound monetary policy.
- Enforcement of the rule of law and restraint of the regulatory bureaucracy to not subvert it.

im simply pointing out the huge holes in your argument. youre in favor of extending the tax cuts to the top 2%. i am not. tax cuts do not spur economic activity. you have said they do and they dont. so you cant really make up your mind. and people also forget that even if tax rates were increased on people making over $250k, they would still get the cuts on the first $250k they make. they new rates would only apply on $ over the $250 bench mark.

even more to add to the argument, the dems in the senate tried to raise the limit to $1M, and repubs even shot that one down. would $1M a year be suitable? i would be fine with raising the limit to $1M.

 

[boedicca]

I'm not fine with perpetuating Class Warfare nonsense.

As a nation, we are not Undertaxed. The government spends TOO MUCH MONEY.

In absolute dollars, the size of the federal government has increased by 25% in less than two years. That's the problem, bub.

Just because you have the Hate On for your former employer doesn't mean we should formulate national policy based upon it.

 

[Common Sense]

I'm not fine with perpetuating Class Warfare nonsense.

As a nation, we are not Undertaxed. The government spends TOO MUCH MONEY.

In absolute dollars, the size of the federal government has increased by 25% in less than two years. That's the problem, bub.

Just because you have the Hate On for your former employer doesn't mean we should formulate national policy based upon it.

ohh so now we over spend? isnt that exactly what the repubs did while in control of both the WH and Congress? they didnt cut spending or cut the deficit. they spend and drove the debt up. why now all of a sudden this mantra of cutting spending and shrinking the size of government? its all bullshit. if you had stuck to your guns while GW was pres, i could see you having a basis for your argument, but "compassionate conservatism" started us down the path.

im not saying that spending doesnt need to be curbed, but why should i trust the repubs anymore than i should trust the dems right now on that individual issue? neither of them have good track records. (although currently i understand why the dems had to take some sort of action, vs when the republicans did it, its was to give the upper class more of thier money back and fight 2 unneeded wars)

 

[boedicca]

You are sorely mistaken if you think I approve of deficit spending.

Try again.

 

[Common Sense]

You are sorely mistaken if you think I approve of deficit spending.

Try again.

answer the questions though. why should i believe that the republicans will curb spending or cut the deficit when they historically havent been able to do either? they havent suggested any cuts in spending since winning back the the House. nor have they spoke of an increase in taxes to pay for the extension of the Bush tax cuts.

so again, why should i believe them either?