Minimal Facts Approach Proves Jesus is God

[Parture]

Jesus trims my grapefruit trees every Winter and he is Definitely NOT god. For one thing, he drives a 1983 GMC pickup truck. I would expect god to, at least, drive a Hummer.

According to the Bible you are going to Hell since God is proven and Jesus is proven to be God. You were unable to overturn the proof in the opening post. Praise the Lord!

I'm not sure where to find it in the Bible, but I know that beer is proof that God exists, and that he loves us.

Just read John 3.14-18 to know you are going to Hell because you reject what Jesus did for you.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Jesus trims my grapefruit trees every Winter and he is Definitely NOT god. For one thing, he drives a 1983 GMC pickup truck. I would expect god to, at least, drive a Hummer.

According to the Bible you are going to Hell since God is proven and Jesus is proven to be God. You were unable to overturn the proof in the opening post. Praise the Lord!

I'm not sure where to find it in the Bible, but I know that beer is proof that God exists, and that he loves us.

Just read John 3.14-18 to know you are going to Hell because you reject what Jesus did for you.

Try not to squirm with glee when you type that Pasture. It is unseemly.

 

[BULLDOG]

Jesus trims my grapefruit trees every Winter and he is Definitely NOT god. For one thing, he drives a 1983 GMC pickup truck. I would expect god to, at least, drive a Hummer.

According to the Bible you are going to Hell since God is proven and Jesus is proven to be God. You were unable to overturn the proof in the opening post. Praise the Lord!

I'm not sure where to find it in the Bible, but I know that beer is proof that God exists, and that he loves us.

Just read John 3.14-18 to know you are going to Hell because you reject what Jesus did for you.

If you don't mind, I'll let God make that decision. I didn't get the memo that said he gave that decision to you.

 

[Parture]

Jesus trims my grapefruit trees every Winter and he is Definitely NOT god. For one thing, he drives a 1983 GMC pickup truck. I would expect god to, at least, drive a Hummer.

According to the Bible you are going to Hell since God is proven and Jesus is proven to be God. You were unable to overturn the proof in the opening post. Praise the Lord!

I'm not sure where to find it in the Bible, but I know that beer is proof that God exists, and that he loves us.

Just read John 3.14-18 to know you are going to Hell because you reject what Jesus did for you.

If you don't mind, I'll let God make that decision. I didn't get the memo that said he gave that decision to you.

God has made the decision in the Bible. Don't kill the messenger.

[Jhn 3:15-21 KJV] 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

So you see it is very easy to see you are going to the Lake of Fire to be eternally separated from the Creator of the universe. You're a bad guy.

 

[BULLDOG]

Jesus trims my grapefruit trees every Winter and he is Definitely NOT god. For one thing, he drives a 1983 GMC pickup truck. I would expect god to, at least, drive a Hummer.

According to the Bible you are going to Hell since God is proven and Jesus is proven to be God. You were unable to overturn the proof in the opening post. Praise the Lord!

I'm not sure where to find it in the Bible, but I know that beer is proof that God exists, and that he loves us.

Just read John 3.14-18 to know you are going to Hell because you reject what Jesus did for you.

If you don't mind, I'll let God make that decision. I didn't get the memo that said he gave that decision to you.

God has made the decision in the Bible. Don't kill the messenger.

[Jhn 3:15-21 KJV] 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

So you see it is very easy to see you are going to the Lake of Fire to be eternally separated from the Creator of the universe. You're a bad guy.

You might want to consider this instead of just sounding like a bible thumping nut.
Overbearing Christians Two Words That Saved me

 

[guno]

This is going to be a pretty damned big shock to the Pope!

He will likely be killed in the explosion. The Pope is not a Christian.

You're not a christian so why do you care?

I am a Christian, but you aren't so you are going to Hell with the Popes.

 

[Moonglow]

So now it's Christian minimalist dogma???

 

[guno]

Jerry Falwell said, "Since the Antichrist will not be revealed before Jesus comes, I believe conditions are falling in place, i.e., one-world government, so he can rule the world after Jesus comes."

When Jesus returns, Jesus will rule the world not the Antichrist. So Jerry is waiting for the Antichrist not Jesus.

I remember he won a contest back in 2002

Dr. Jerry Falwell Wins Lard Eating Contest The 75th annual American Pastor's Lard Eating Contest was held in Lynchburg Virginia on December 3rd. Dr. Jerry Falwell defeated last year's champion, Pastor John Hagee by consuming over 127lbs of hog fat in under 10 minutes. "I can do all things through God who strengthens me!" Falwell said, as he wiped his huge chin with an entire roll of paper towels. While this was not a personal record for Dr. Falwell, it was enough to win the competition.

 

[Parture]

According to the Bible you are going to Hell since God is proven and Jesus is proven to be God. You were unable to overturn the proof in the opening post. Praise the Lord!

I'm not sure where to find it in the Bible, but I know that beer is proof that God exists, and that he loves us.

Just read John 3.14-18 to know you are going to Hell because you reject what Jesus did for you.

If you don't mind, I'll let God make that decision. I didn't get the memo that said he gave that decision to you.

God has made the decision in the Bible. Don't kill the messenger.

[Jhn 3:15-21 KJV] 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

So you see it is very easy to see you are going to the Lake of Fire to be eternally separated from the Creator of the universe. You're a bad guy.

You might want to consider this instead of just sounding like a bible thumping nut.
Overbearing Christians Two Words That Saved me

You sound like a Bible thumping nut, but the fact remains since God is proven and Jesus is proven to be God and you are unable to overturn that proof then you are going to Hell. Why fight it? It's what you want.

 

[Moonglow]

I'm not sure where to find it in the Bible, but I know that beer is proof that God exists, and that he loves us.

Just read John 3.14-18 to know you are going to Hell because you reject what Jesus did for you.

If you don't mind, I'll let God make that decision. I didn't get the memo that said he gave that decision to you.

God has made the decision in the Bible. Don't kill the messenger.

[Jhn 3:15-21 KJV] 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

So you see it is very easy to see you are going to the Lake of Fire to be eternally separated from the Creator of the universe. You're a bad guy.

You might want to consider this instead of just sounding like a bible thumping nut.
Overbearing Christians Two Words That Saved me

You sound like a Bible thumping nut, but the fact remains since God is proven and Jesus is proven to be God and you are unable to overturn that proof then you are going to Hell. Why fight it? It's what you want.

So Jesus prayed to himself while being Father in Heaven, while on Earth?

 

[hobelim]

The Minimal Facts Approach at its core is taking what most skeptical scholars concede and using that against them to prove Jesus is God.

"But go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and your Father; My God and your God." John 20:17

By saying that his relationship to God is exactly the same as our relationship to God Jesus effectively eliminated any possibility that he either thought of himself as God or claimed to be God.

 

[Meriweather]

The Minimal Facts Approach at its core is taking what most skeptical scholars concede and using that against them to prove Jesus is God.

"But go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and your Father; My God and your God." John 20:17

By saying that his relationship to God is exactly the same as our relationship to God Jesus effectively eliminated any possibility that he either thought of himself as God or claimed to be God.

If this was the only passage Jesus spoke of the relationship between himself and the Father, you might have a point. However, when taken in context with everything else, it is not the point you make of it.

 

[hobelim]

The Minimal Facts Approach at its core is taking what most skeptical scholars concede and using that against them to prove Jesus is God.

"But go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and your Father; My God and your God." John 20:17

By saying that his relationship to God is exactly the same as our relationship to God Jesus effectively eliminated any possibility that he either thought of himself as God or claimed to be God.

If this was the only passage Jesus spoke of the relationship between himself and the Father, you might have a point. However, when taken in context with everything else, it is not the point you make of it.

Context my ass. the point has been made. Jesus did not think of himself as God or claim to be his own God.There are no other passages where Jesus spoke of his relationship with God that indicate otherwise except maybe two other verses that are not claims of being God but were misunderstood and used by his enemies to discredit Jesus because even in first century Judea, just like today, any person that claimed to be God was either a deliberate deceiver or completely insane.

 

[Ubiquitor]

Lots of stock being put into a book that says that Earth is populated today because of two major incestuous eras.

 

[Parture]

"But go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and your Father; My God and your God." John 20:17

By saying that his relationship to God is exactly the same as our relationship to God Jesus effectively eliminated any possibility that he either thought of himself as God or claimed to be God.

Your understanding is worldly. When Jesus says "My God" He is referring to God the Father. When Jesus says "your God" is the same God the Father, He is showing perfect obedience as only God the Son can be perfectly obedient to God the Father. His perfect obedience is what we are to learn from where Christ lives in us by the Holy Spirit to do God's perfect will. That is what is intended. Your misreading shows the power of your flesh to be retarded. What I have told you is basic Christianity. Elsewhere in Philippians 2.5-11 Paul recognizes Jesus counted His equality with the Father something not to be grasped; nonetheless equal. What scholars typically say is that Jesus being God the Son emptied Himself of His independent divine attributes in order to condescend Himself to us in the likeness of flesh (not actually the flesh) so as to relate to us as fully man and fully God. He is the fullness of the Godhead bodily. If you can't sense this you are putting up a barrier between you and God. In other words, you are not searching Him out with all you heart and soul, and that's why you can't find Him yet. He is saying you are putting up the resistance, and you are not doing your part as He desires for you to genuinely seek Him out.

 

[BluePhantom]

The whore, of course with her purple tassels, is the Roman Catholic Church that makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications so Rev. 17.16 says a nuclear bomb will blow up the Vatican.

Oh my God what a tool! The Great Whore of Babylon isn't the Roman Catholic Church, you insipid dolt, it's Rome. John of Patmos is making a caricature of a coin used in Rome at the time that depicted the patron goddess of Rome (Roma) seated on seven hills (which were the seven hills of Rome - Rome was seated in the middle of seven hills and was known as "the city of seven hills"). She is depicted as slender and beautiful, laying back in a relaxed fashion. There are animals at her feet signifying Rome's horticulture. There are grains and grapes signifying Rome's agriculture. She is holding a sword and it is pointing down toward her knee signifying that Rome has military power but chooses not to raise it unless necessary. The waters of the Tiber river are flowing from her feet. That's how Rome saw itself and that image would have been as familiar to people in the 1st century as the picture of George Washington is to us today on the one dollar bill.

What John of Patmos was doing was making fun of that very much like a political cartoon where things are exaggerated and meanings changed. The seven hills on the coin became a beast with seven heads. Purple was the color of the Emperor. Only the Emperor was allowed to wear purple in his toga and only the very rich could afford scarlet dyes. John was making a point about the wealthy and the aristocracy. The grapes on the coin transform to wine and drunkenness and excess. The wine becomes the blood of believers. He is saying "Rome is not a beautiful slender woman who is graceful and beautiful and forgiving, Rome is a fat fucking whore of a pig who murders Christians just for the hell of it."

Here's a link to a picture of the fucking coin. Google Image Result for http christianunityblog.files.wordpress.com 2011 04 vespasian-seven-hills.jpg

Roman Catholic Church...what a total moron.

 

[BluePhantom]

The Minimal Facts Approach at its core is taking what most skeptical scholars concede and using that against them to prove Jesus is God.

Well I can say that if there is one thing You provide us with PRTR it's "minimal facts"

 

[hortysir]

I already gave you a miracle - the resurrection of Jesus proving He is God.

With only one fact as a constraint on the subject, can't get more minimal than that, - everything recorded by the Apostles supposedly happened on earth - one can easily dismiss any interpretation that contradicts reality as we know it and cannot be the truth which always leaves just one possible rational explanation.

In this instance the only possible truth that conforms to reality is that every single eyewitness account of Jesus being seen and heard after the crucifixion was the eyewitness account of what was seen and heard in a dream.

To the Apostles who were raised to believe that God communicates to men through dreams and visions, seeing Jesus in a dream after he was killed would have convinced them that Jesus survived physical death and was in the realm of God. It did not convince them that he was God . You might believe that but that's just plain silly. There never was a time when a human being was God or became God either before during or after their human existence and dead people do not spook their friends by wearing disguises, eating fish, and popping in and out of reality on earth after they are killed. Seeing and speaking with Jesus in dreams gave them all the proof they needed that Jesus who told them he was returning to God was in the eternal realm of God, and received the promised reward for the righteous.

Believing that they too would have a place in the realm of God if they maintained allegiance to what Jesus taught them until the end is what gave them the faith to endure their own imminent suffering and death..

simple. No suspension of disbelief required.

What you have already is what you inherited from the fall of Adam, you sin nature, which eternally separates you from God unless you receive Christ. God can have no fellowship with a sinner.

Ugh...

Let me give you some advice. The less sanctimonious you are the less embarrassed you will be..

Boy, I hope I'm somewhere close by when it's your turn in front of Him.
If for no other reason but to see your expression

 

[Parture]

The whore, of course with her purple tassels, is the Roman Catholic Church that makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications so Rev. 17.16 says a nuclear bomb will blow up the Vatican.

Oh my God what a tool! The Great Whore of Babylon isn't the Roman Catholic Church, you insipid dolt, it's Rome. John of Patmos is making a caricature of a coin used in Rome at the time that depicted the patron goddess of Rome (Roma) seated on seven hills (which were the seven hills of Rome - Rome was seated in the middle of seven hills and was known as "the city of seven hills"). She is depicted as slender and beautiful, laying back in a relaxed fashion. There are animals at her feet signifying Rome's horticulture. There are grains and grapes signifying Rome's agriculture. She is holding a sword and it is pointing down toward her knee signifying that Rome has military power but chooses not to raise it unless necessary. The waters of the Tiber river are flowing from her feet. That's how Rome saw itself and that image would have been as familiar to people in the 1st century as the picture of George Washington is to us today on the one dollar bill.

What John of Patmos was doing was making fun of that very much like a political cartoon where things are exaggerated and meanings changed. The seven hills on the coin became a beast with seven heads. Purple was the color of the Emperor. Only the Emperor was allowed to wear purple in his toga and only the very rich could afford scarlet dyes. John was making a point about the wealthy and the aristocracy. The grapes on the coin transform to wine and drunkenness and excess. The wine becomes the blood of believers. He is saying "Rome is not a beautiful slender woman who is graceful and beautiful and forgiving, Rome is a fat fucking whore of a pig who murders Christians just for the hell of it."

Here's a link to a picture of the fucking coin. Google Image Result for http christianunityblog.files.wordpress.com 2011 04 vespasian-seven-hills.jpg

Roman Catholic Church...what a total moron.

Blue Phantom, you're a total retard, and certainly not a Christian.

"And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication" (Rev. 14.8). The first fallen points to religious Rome falling and the second fallen points to political Rome fallen. The Vatican will be nuked in the 1st half of the 7 year Tribulation; and political Rome will undergo 1/3 of the people dying. The European Union of 28 countries now is that Revived Roman Empire of 10 Toes. The 1st 10 countries installed in the EU were added by 1982.

To what does this city of Babylon refer in Rev. 14.8? To Babylon or to Rome? The Babylon in chapter 17 is a mystery and has reference to Rome as a religious system. The Babylon here in 14.8 is also connected with the Roman religious system, for the description concerning both is the same. So that the second angel notifies the world that Babylon is fallen; that us to say, the Roman religious system is defeated. From this we can infer that the big harvest follows upon the defeat of the Roman religious system.

“The wine of the wrath of her fornication” signifies the oppression which the Roman religious system will mete out to people. To those unfaithful to the Lord will she give the wine of fornication; and to the faithful will she give the wine of wrath. Wine speaks of that which bewilders people.

The Roman religious system will be revived as the Roman Catholic Church, but she will also be totally destroyed. Rev. 17.16 points to the description of a nuclear bomb that will blow up the Vatican.

The long section from 17.1 to 18.24 is best to be taken as one single chapter. Please note also that 18.1-3 serves as transitional words, since they conclude what has been spoken previously and commence what is next going to be said; for these verses mention the following three things:

(1) “By the wine of the wrath of her fornication all the nations are fallen”—only chapter 17 mentions this (17.2);

(2) “The merchants of the earth waxed rich by the power of her wantonness”—only chapter 18 mentions this (18.11,15); and

(3) “The kings of the earth committed fornication with her”—both chapters 17 and 18 speak about this (17.2, 18.9).

The word “Babylon” comes from “Babel”: It is recorded in Genesis 10 and 11 that Nimrod built the city of Babel in the land of Shinar. It was he who tried to protect himself by his own strength. The origin of the tower of Babel is found in Genesis 11.1-4. God confounded the language of the people and scattered them abroad upon the face of all the earth. Hence the city was called “Babel” (11.9). “Babel” or “Babylon” simply means “confusion”. Idol-worship began there, and it stood in opposition to God. The city grew larger and larger until it reached its golden age at the time of Nebuchadnezzar. Due to the unfaithfulness of the children of Israel, God delivered them into the hands of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon.

In the days of Daniel, King Nebuchadnezzar dreamed of a huge image: and by interpretation he himself was the image’s head of gold, the most prosperous period in the history of Babylon; then Medo-Persia (the image’s arms of silver) destroyed Babylon, and the city became desolate. Later on, Greece (the image’s belly of brass) destroyed Medo-Persia; and Greece was in turn destroyed by Rome (the image’s legs of iron). Babylon was therefore the first kingdom, while Rome was the last kingdom. And these four kingdoms oppressed the Jews. Three kingdoms have already passed away, but Rome has continued on. The ten toes of the image have yet to appear. Now just as Babylon had greatly worshiped idols and deeply hated the Jews, so has Rome.

Rome was not only politically a city, it was also a center of religion. In the city of Rome were to be found many Christians, yet Rome hated Christians the most. Not until the fourth century after Christ did Constantine the Great accept Christianity and encourage his people to do the same. With the result that Christianity became the official religion of Rome. At the same time, though, the center of politics shifted from Rome to Constantinople. Rome itself became subject to the rule of Constantinople and remained that way until the sixth century. At the time of Leo a general council was held at Constantinople wherein idol-worship was condemned as heretical and illegal. Rome opposed this, and she broke with Constantinople. Thus were formed the Eastern Roman Church (the Greek Orthodox Church) and the Western Roman Church (the Roman Catholic Church). The influence of the Eastern Roman Church began to wane, but that of the Western Roman Church increased steadily. A great number of Christians suffered death at the hands of the Roman Catholic Church.

According to Revelation 17 and 18 the Roman Catholic Church will experience tremendous growth in the future, far exceeding that of the past. Her influence will be enormous. But when Antichrist shall arise and set up his image as an object of worship, he with his ten subordinate kings shall destroy the Roman Church. Nevertheless, with the passing of Rome religious, Rome political will still continue. She will make the Mediterranean Sea a center of her influence. Three and a half years later, God will destroy Rome political.

Why is it that chapters 17 and 18 do not mention Rome plainly, but use Babylon instead? Because John lived under the reign of Rome. If he should have plainly written of Rome, his writing might not have been able to be circulated—yet not that John was afraid to write explicitly, but that the Holy Spirit intended to have it hidden. Nevertheless, the same Spirit is concerned lest people take Babylon as being literal. So in Revelation 17.5 He declares:

(1) “Mystery, Babylon the Great”—Being a mystery, it must be spiritual and not literal in its interpretation. For instance, if in 11.8 Jerusalem had been plainly mentioned, the Jews would have immediately risen up in arms. So that a spiritualized form of writing is here used.

(2) By saying Babylon the Great instead of simply Babylon, it intimates that this Babylon is much greater than the actual Babylon of the past. Such a rendering thus helps the reader to know that Babylon is not to be taken as Babylon literally but is to be understood as standing for Rome.

 

[BluePhantom]

The whore, of course with her purple tassels, is the Roman Catholic Church that makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications so Rev. 17.16 says a nuclear bomb will blow up the Vatican.

Oh my God what a tool! The Great Whore of Babylon isn't the Roman Catholic Church, you insipid dolt, it's Rome. John of Patmos is making a caricature of a coin used in Rome at the time that depicted the patron goddess of Rome (Roma) seated on seven hills (which were the seven hills of Rome - Rome was seated in the middle of seven hills and was known as "the city of seven hills"). She is depicted as slender and beautiful, laying back in a relaxed fashion. There are animals at her feet signifying Rome's horticulture. There are grains and grapes signifying Rome's agriculture. She is holding a sword and it is pointing down toward her knee signifying that Rome has military power but chooses not to raise it unless necessary. The waters of the Tiber river are flowing from her feet. That's how Rome saw itself and that image would have been as familiar to people in the 1st century as the picture of George Washington is to us today on the one dollar bill.

What John of Patmos was doing was making fun of that very much like a political cartoon where things are exaggerated and meanings changed. The seven hills on the coin became a beast with seven heads. Purple was the color of the Emperor. Only the Emperor was allowed to wear purple in his toga and only the very rich could afford scarlet dyes. John was making a point about the wealthy and the aristocracy. The grapes on the coin transform to wine and drunkenness and excess. The wine becomes the blood of believers. He is saying "Rome is not a beautiful slender woman who is graceful and beautiful and forgiving, Rome is a fat fucking whore of a pig who murders Christians just for the hell of it."

Here's a link to a picture of the fucking coin. Google Image Result for http christianunityblog.files.wordpress.com 2011 04 vespasian-seven-hills.jpg

Roman Catholic Church...what a total moron.

Blue Phantom, you're a total retard, and certainly not a Christian.

"And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication" (Rev. 14.8). The first fallen points to religious Rome falling and the second fallen points to political Rome fallen. The Vatican will be nuked in the 1st half of the 7 year Tribulation; and political Rome will undergo 1/3 of the people dying. The European Union of 28 countries now is that Revived Roman Empire of 10 Toes. The 1st 10 countries installed in the EU were added by 1982.

To what does this city of Babylon refer in Rev. 14.8? To Babylon or to Rome? The Babylon in chapter 17 is a mystery and has reference to Rome as a religious system. The Babylon here in 14.8 is also connected with the Roman religious system, for the description concerning both is the same. So that the second angel notifies the world that Babylon is fallen; that us to say, the Roman religious system is defeated. From this we can infer that the big harvest follows upon the defeat of the Roman religious system.

“The wine of the wrath of her fornication” signifies the oppression which the Roman religious system will mete out to people. To those unfaithful to the Lord will she give the wine of fornication; and to the faithful will she give the wine of wrath. Wine speaks of that which bewilders people.

The Roman religious system will be revived as the Roman Catholic Church, but she will also be totally destroyed. Rev. 17.16 points to the description of a nuclear bomb that will blow up the Vatican.

The long section from 17.1 to 18.24 is best to be taken as one single chapter. Please note also that 18.1-3 serves as transitional words, since they conclude what has been spoken previously and commence what is next going to be said; for these verses mention the following three things:

(1) “By the wine of the wrath of her fornication all the nations are fallen”—only chapter 17 mentions this (17.2);

(2) “The merchants of the earth waxed rich by the power of her wantonness”—only chapter 18 mentions this (18.11,15); and

(3) “The kings of the earth committed fornication with her”—both chapters 17 and 18 speak about this (17.2, 18.9).

The word “Babylon” comes from “Babel”: It is recorded in Genesis 10 and 11 that Nimrod built the city of Babel in the land of Shinar. It was he who tried to protect himself by his own strength. The origin of the tower of Babel is found in Genesis 11.1-4. God confounded the language of the people and scattered them abroad upon the face of all the earth. Hence the city was called “Babel” (11.9). “Babel” or “Babylon” simply means “confusion”. Idol-worship began there, and it stood in opposition to God. The city grew larger and larger until it reached its golden age at the time of Nebuchadnezzar. Due to the unfaithfulness of the children of Israel, God delivered them into the hands of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon.

In the days of Daniel, King Nebuchadnezzar dreamed of a huge image: and by interpretation he himself was the image’s head of gold, the most prosperous period in the history of Babylon; then Medo-Persia (the image’s arms of silver) destroyed Babylon, and the city became desolate. Later on, Greece (the image’s belly of brass) destroyed Medo-Persia; and Greece was in turn destroyed by Rome (the image’s legs of iron). Babylon was therefore the first kingdom, while Rome was the last kingdom. And these four kingdoms oppressed the Jews. Three kingdoms have already passed away, but Rome has continued on. The ten toes of the image have yet to appear. Now just as Babylon had greatly worshiped idols and deeply hated the Jews, so has Rome.

Rome was not only politically a city, it was also a center of religion. In the city of Rome were to be found many Christians, yet Rome hated Christians the most. Not until the fourth century after Christ did Constantine the Great accept Christianity and encourage his people to do the same. With the result that Christianity became the official religion of Rome. At the same time, though, the center of politics shifted from Rome to Constantinople. Rome itself became subject to the rule of Constantinople and remained that way until the sixth century. At the time of Leo a general council was held at Constantinople wherein idol-worship was condemned as heretical and illegal. Rome opposed this, and she broke with Constantinople. Thus were formed the Eastern Roman Church (the Greek Orthodox Church) and the Western Roman Church (the Roman Catholic Church). The influence of the Eastern Roman Church began to wane, but that of the Western Roman Church increased steadily. A great number of Christians suffered death at the hands of the Roman Catholic Church.

According to Revelation 17 and 18 the Roman Catholic Church will experience tremendous growth in the future, far exceeding that of the past. Her influence will be enormous. But when Antichrist shall arise and set up his image as an object of worship, he with his ten subordinate kings shall destroy the Roman Church. Nevertheless, with the passing of Rome religious, Rome political will still continue. She will make the Mediterranean Sea a center of her influence. Three and a half years later, God will destroy Rome political.

Why is it that chapters 17 and 18 do not mention Rome plainly, but use Babylon instead? Because John lived under the reign of Rome. If he should have plainly written of Rome, his writing might not have been able to be circulated—yet not that John was afraid to write explicitly, but that the Holy Spirit intended to have it hidden. Nevertheless, the same Spirit is concerned lest people take Babylon as being literal. So in Revelation 17.5 He declares:

(1) “Mystery, Babylon the Great”—Being a mystery, it must be spiritual and not literal in its interpretation. For instance, if in 11.8 Jerusalem had been plainly mentioned, the Jews would have immediately risen up in arms. So that a spiritualized form of writing is here used.

(2) By saying Babylon the Great instead of simply Babylon, it intimates that this Babylon is much greater than the actual Babylon of the past. Such a rendering thus helps the reader to know that Babylon is not to be taken as Babylon literally but is to be understood as standing for Rome.

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The First Fruits

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