Minimum wage, living wage, child labor, white blue collar suburbs, black blue collar ghettos

[danielpalos]

only lousy capitalists lose money on border policy.

You didn't answer my question again. You seem to have a habit of not answering direct questions. Are you a socialist?

no faith in Capitalism, right winger?

We should be making money on border policy not losing money on border policy and not solving any actual problems.

Thanks, I have the answer. Sad.

don't understand Capitalism, right winger? we should have no illegal problem; that is how market friendly, border policy should be.

Capitalism has nothing to do with a corrupt border policy in both political parties.

Lousy Capitalism has Everything to do with it. We should have no illegal problem.

 

[BS Filter]

You didn't answer my question again. You seem to have a habit of not answering direct questions. Are you a socialist?

no faith in Capitalism, right winger?

We should be making money on border policy not losing money on border policy and not solving any actual problems.

Thanks, I have the answer. Sad.

don't understand Capitalism, right winger? we should have no illegal problem; that is how market friendly, border policy should be.

Capitalism has nothing to do with a corrupt border policy in both political parties.

Lousy Capitalism has Everything to do with it. We should have no illegal problem.

Are you a socialist? Answer the question.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

you seem to have all of their propaganda, down pat.

What, pro-freedom?

EVERYTHING I advocate is pro-freedom. If that is "right-wing propaganda" then that tells you where you stand on freedom. Maybe the left needs to reconsider some stuff.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Lousy Capitalism has Everything to do with it. We should have no illegal problem.

It seems like the wrong people are bitching about illegal immigration.

Those who SHOULD be bitching about it are the guys wanting a $15 minimum wage. The guys who are ACTUALLY bitching about it appear to be benefiting greatly from the cheaper labor, at the expense of our entire economy.

 

[danielpalos]

no faith in Capitalism, right winger?

We should be making money on border policy not losing money on border policy and not solving any actual problems.

Thanks, I have the answer. Sad.

don't understand Capitalism, right winger? we should have no illegal problem; that is how market friendly, border policy should be.

Capitalism has nothing to do with a corrupt border policy in both political parties.

Lousy Capitalism has Everything to do with it. We should have no illegal problem.

Are you a socialist? Answer the question.

are you a capitalist?

 

[danielpalos]

Lousy Capitalism has Everything to do with it. We should have no illegal problem.

It seems like the wrong people are bitching about illegal immigration.

Those who SHOULD be bitching about it are the guys wanting a $15 minimum wage. The guys who are ACTUALLY bitching about it appear to be benefiting greatly from the cheaper labor, at the expense of our entire economy.

we should have no illegal problem. are you capitalist or not?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

technically no; Because only lousy capitalists lose money on border policy that would better ensure there is little to no economic incentive to enter the country illegally.

Dan Palos is wrong 99.9% of the time, but on this issue, he is PARTLY correct.

Businesses benefit from cheap, under-the-table labor. They benefit because it costs twice as much to hire an American, mainly because of employment taxes and other costs.

We could fix this problem by ELIMINATING THE EMPLOYMENT TAX!!! Whoever thought that was a good idea has about as much understanding of economics as a dead, retarded Chilean goat.

OUR TAX POLICIES create the conditions for such an influx and screw over American workers. Change the tax policies first.

 

[BS Filter]

Thanks, I have the answer. Sad.

don't understand Capitalism, right winger? we should have no illegal problem; that is how market friendly, border policy should be.

Capitalism has nothing to do with a corrupt border policy in both political parties.

Lousy Capitalism has Everything to do with it. We should have no illegal problem.

Are you a socialist? Answer the question.

are you a capitalist?

Yes, are you a socialist?

 

[Hum Dinger]

First and foremost, Democrats and Republicans, conservatives and liberals, all tend to be wrong on a significant portion of the debate when it comes to these topics. This thread is not about raising the minimum wage. This is about having a realistic picture of the American employment market. What jobs are out there, what are they paying, who is available to fill them.

But one thing in particular that really baffles me is the absolute stupidity that many on the right use with arguments about how low wage jobs are supposed to be stepping stones, "first jobs", and all that nonsense. And it's very telling how many on the right think that suburban, white, unskilled workers on a GM assembly line during the golden years that made America great were doing jobs that warranted a lifelong career at a decent wage; yet unskilled urban black and Latino workers working in a warehouse are lazy, useless leeches who shouldn't be doing that job for very long and deserve nothing better than the ghetto wages that will make America great again.

The question becomes "What should happen with all these low wage jobs that aren't supposed to be filled but for a short time by people working their first job?" Do people really believe that there are such few of these jobs that they can be filled by teenage kids and college students home on break?

The data is from a few years ago, but we all know that wages have been largely the same for the past few years. Any change would be negligible for the point here. But it turns out that about 42% of Americans make less than $15 an hour.

The 16 - 20 age group makes up only 7.3% of the workforce. Nowhere near enough to fill the total positions that pay less than $15 an hour. So it is a complete falsehood to say that these are jobs that these positions are only stepping stones and should only be first jobs for teenagers and new high school grads.

The jobs available in America are dictated by those goods and services the American public has a demand to buy. The modern American working class must fill those jobs the American consumer's buying demands. Warehouse employees at Amazon, fast food workers, retail, restaurant servers and cooks, so and and so forth. This is the modern day American working class. Stubbornly insisting that the only well paying working class jobs should be in a coal mine, or a GM factory assembly line, is nothing more than interjecting an unfounded idealism into the natural market.

The 'Pro-management' side of the world is lying by trying to justify workers wages at all. It isn't about 'first jobs' nor is it about undeserving minorities.

Pro-management people want to pay as little as they possibly can to anybody if they can get away with it. They would bring back slavery if they could. Their justifications are disingenuine. They aren't racist they'll happily enslave anyone they can regardless of race, job skill or education.

"Suburban, white, unskilled workers on a GM assembly line during the golden years that made America great" unionized and forced higher pay and better wages.

These days management has gotten a whole lot better at stopping people from unionizing. They pay only to the level that prevents people from rebelling. The less empowered people are the lower the pay. They don't care if the least empowered rebel...they have police to deal with them.

What we need is government mandated profit sharing for all workers. That's a totally capitalistic way of fixing income disparity.

 

[danielpalos]

technically no; Because only lousy capitalists lose money on border policy that would better ensure there is little to no economic incentive to enter the country illegally.

Dan Palos is wrong 99.9% of the time, but on this issue, he is PARTLY correct.

Businesses benefit from cheap, under-the-table labor. They benefit because it costs twice as much to hire an American, mainly because of employment taxes and other costs.

We could fix this problem by ELIMINATING THE EMPLOYMENT TAX!!! Whoever thought that was a good idea has about as much understanding of economics as a dead, retarded Chilean goat.

OUR TAX POLICIES create the conditions for such an influx and screw over American workers. Change the tax policies first.

everyone is a tourist unless they specifically apply for citizenship.

 

[danielpalos]

don't understand Capitalism, right winger? we should have no illegal problem; that is how market friendly, border policy should be.

Capitalism has nothing to do with a corrupt border policy in both political parties.

Lousy Capitalism has Everything to do with it. We should have no illegal problem.

Are you a socialist? Answer the question.

are you a capitalist?

Yes, are you a socialist?

no, you are not a capitalist.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Pro-management people want to pay as little as they possibly can to anybody if they can get away with it. They would bring back slavery if they could. Their justifications are disingenuine. They aren't racist they'll happily enslave anyone they can regardless of race, job skill or education.

And that is the nature of "pro-management" as you call them. You will never get them to change their nature. You can only hope to incentivize them. It does no good to call them "immoral" for maximizing profits. It would be "immoral" for them to not do everything in their power to increase profits for the shareholders. Such is their duty.

Make it less expensive to hire workers, or reduce the supply, and they will pay what the market demands. They will have no choice, and the government did nothing but get out of the way.

 

[Hum Dinger]

technically no; Because only lousy capitalists lose money on border policy that would better ensure there is little to no economic incentive to enter the country illegally.

Dan Palos is wrong 99.9% of the time, but on this issue, he is PARTLY correct.

Businesses benefit from cheap, under-the-table labor. They benefit because it costs twice as much to hire an American, mainly because of employment taxes and other costs.

We could fix this problem by ELIMINATING THE EMPLOYMENT TAX!!! Whoever thought that was a good idea has about as much understanding of economics as a dead, retarded Chilean goat.

OUR TAX POLICIES create the conditions for such an influx and screw over American workers. Change the tax policies first.

If the employment tax were eliminated, business people would still hire the lowest wage workers they can - which would still be illegals. They'd just pocket the money saved from not paying taxes.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

everyone is a tourist unless they specifically apply for citizenship.

What about people on work visas or student visas? Are they tourists too?

 

[SmokeALib]

I could have been poor. I'm glad I decided otherwise.

Unfortunately, under tRump, unless you have enough CASH to live the rest of your life without working, you are poor.

I'm not. Care to try again, traitor?

 

[Hum Dinger]

Pro-management people want to pay as little as they possibly can to anybody if they can get away with it. They would bring back slavery if they could. Their justifications are disingenuine. They aren't racist they'll happily enslave anyone they can regardless of race, job skill or education.

And that is the nature of "pro-management" as you call them. You will never get them to change their nature. You can only hope to incentivize them. It does no good to call them "immoral" for maximizing profits. It would be "immoral" for them to not do everything in their power to increase profits for the shareholders. Such is their duty.

Make it less expensive to hire workers, or reduce the supply, and they will pay what the market demands. They will have no choice, and the government did nothing but get out of the way.

It would not be immoral or wrong for management to not do everything in their power to increase profits for shareholders.

There are many, many very companies that take a whole lot more into consideration than just profits.

It's usually the piss poor business people that only care about profits above all else. They don't have the brains to pay people fairly AND be profitable.

Worker loyalty and worker quality are two very good reasons for paying higher wages.

It's the cheap skates that are constantly on the verge of bankruptcy who pay the least - then they wonder why their workers don't do such a good job and their business is failing.

 

[danielpalos]

everyone is a tourist unless they specifically apply for citizenship.

What about people on work visas or student visas? Are they tourists too?

yes; they have to apply for citizenship and get in that line; otherwise, they are simply touring our great Republic.

 

[BS Filter]

Capitalism has nothing to do with a corrupt border policy in both political parties.

Lousy Capitalism has Everything to do with it. We should have no illegal problem.

Are you a socialist? Answer the question.

are you a capitalist?

Yes, are you a socialist?

no, you are not a capitalist.

Whatever.

 

[danielpalos]

Lousy Capitalism has Everything to do with it. We should have no illegal problem.

Are you a socialist? Answer the question.

are you a capitalist?

Yes, are you a socialist?

no, you are not a capitalist.

Whatever.

Tourism is the first, second, or third largest employer in twenty-nine States.

Only lousy capitalists lose money on border policy.

 

[BS Filter]

Are you a socialist? Answer the question.

are you a capitalist?

Yes, are you a socialist?

no, you are not a capitalist.

Whatever.

Tourism is the first, second, or third largest employer in twenty-nine States.

Only lousy capitalists lose money on border policy.

I don't buy that. You're full of shit.