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Trump has indicated that he's flexible on the Minimum Wage issue. I support that. I'd like to see a better Minimum Wage for Americans. Our current Minimum Wage is deeply embarrassing compared to the rest of the world. The richest nation on earth can certainly do better.
it's up to you to find out what skills will bring the best price in the marketplace and then get the training you need to perform those skillsFirstly, the US isn't doing enough to get people the skills that they need. Secondly the rich want people to be poor so they can work these minimum wage jobs and make others rich. Again, we're a society, shouldn't we at least make sure that people can afford a fucking roof over their head if they are actually being productive and actually making other people rich?
What kind of a selfish world do we live in where we say to people that 40 or even 50 hours isn't even enough to get a roof over their head, no matter what kind of work they're doing. The right moans and bitches that people don't work, then when they do work they couldn't give a fuck about whether it's actually worth their while to do so.Firstly, the US isn't doing enough to get people the skills that they need.
Its up to the US to get people trained?
I always thought that was MY job.
What kind of a selfish world do we live in where we say to people that 40 or even 50 hours isn't even enough to get a roof over their head, no matter what kind of work they're doing
The real world.
You should visit sometime
The problem is a country needs certain skills. Look at Germany, they set out to be a high tech manufacturer, seeing, rightly, that if you stick to the cheap stuff, that countries like China, Taiwan, Vietnam will be able to come along with low skilled and much cheaper workers and take over your jobs. The US is trying to get back jobs that it shouldn't have, and because it hasn't gone out there to get higher tech jobs, many of these are being done abroad too or require foreign workers to do them. This is a problem.
Some countries are deciding how they want their society to be, and they decided they want their society to be strong. You lot have decided you want low paid manufacturing jobs. I don't get it.
A society is strong when people have the freedom to be and do what they want
Do you want to live in a country where you are told that you have to be a plumber because the country needs plumbers or would you rather make your own choices
The individual always trumps society
Right, so a kid at the age of 12 decides what skills he needs, but the school he goes to doesn't provide those skills, then what?
A society is strong when people get to choose, but too much choice doesn't make society stronger, you still need people to do certain things. Is society strong when people get conscripted? Sure, but they don't have the choice, do they?
I'm not talking about telling people to be a plumber. Hey, I want to be a multi billionaire, but the job vacancy for that one is taken by someone else. So where's my choice? Oh, the choice is there, I can choose to pursue something, that doesn't mean there's going to be room for me. Plenty of kids apply for schools they can't get into because others are better, so they have to do something they don't want to do. That's life.
What I'm talking about is saying "hey, we need 50,000 kids to study to be a plumber this year, and 2,000 to be engineers, you can apply to be an engineer, but if you don't make it, there are plenty of available spaces in plumbing"
You say the individual trumps the society, yet it doesn't. You can't say whatever the hell you want, society makes rules that you have to abide by or go to prison, how is this the individual trumping society exactly?
The right go on and on and on about how the left are destroying morals, morals are about society not the individual. Give me a break.
no kid at 12 knows what skills he needs and when he decides what skills he needs he then can find a place to get training in those skills
it isn't rocket science
Man you do like mixing your metaphors don't you? Rules or laws are a completely different matter than individual responsibility.
we are a country based on individual liberties and the responsibilities that go along with those liberties we are not and never will be a collective
it's up to you to find out what skills will bring the best price in the marketplace and then get the training you need to perform those skillsIts up to the US to get people trained?
I always thought that was MY job.
The real world.
You should visit sometime
The problem is a country needs certain skills. Look at Germany, they set out to be a high tech manufacturer, seeing, rightly, that if you stick to the cheap stuff, that countries like China, Taiwan, Vietnam will be able to come along with low skilled and much cheaper workers and take over your jobs. The US is trying to get back jobs that it shouldn't have, and because it hasn't gone out there to get higher tech jobs, many of these are being done abroad too or require foreign workers to do them. This is a problem.
Some countries are deciding how they want their society to be, and they decided they want their society to be strong. You lot have decided you want low paid manufacturing jobs. I don't get it.
A society is strong when people have the freedom to be and do what they want
Do you want to live in a country where you are told that you have to be a plumber because the country needs plumbers or would you rather make your own choices
The individual always trumps society
Right, so a kid at the age of 12 decides what skills he needs, but the school he goes to doesn't provide those skills, then what?
A society is strong when people get to choose, but too much choice doesn't make society stronger, you still need people to do certain things. Is society strong when people get conscripted? Sure, but they don't have the choice, do they?
I'm not talking about telling people to be a plumber. Hey, I want to be a multi billionaire, but the job vacancy for that one is taken by someone else. So where's my choice? Oh, the choice is there, I can choose to pursue something, that doesn't mean there's going to be room for me. Plenty of kids apply for schools they can't get into because others are better, so they have to do something they don't want to do. That's life.
What I'm talking about is saying "hey, we need 50,000 kids to study to be a plumber this year, and 2,000 to be engineers, you can apply to be an engineer, but if you don't make it, there are plenty of available spaces in plumbing"
You say the individual trumps the society, yet it doesn't. You can't say whatever the hell you want, society makes rules that you have to abide by or go to prison, how is this the individual trumping society exactly?
The right go on and on and on about how the left are destroying morals, morals are about society not the individual. Give me a break.
no kid at 12 knows what skills he needs and when he decides what skills he needs he then can find a place to get training in those skills
it isn't rocket science
Man you do like mixing your metaphors don't you? Rules or laws are a completely different matter than individual responsibility.
we are a country based on individual liberties and the responsibilities that go along with those liberties we are not and never will be a collective
Ah ha. No kid knows what they need for the rest of their life. So it's up to the adults then? It's up to people who know what skills are needed in society to go out there and make sure it happens.
Yes, the US is a country based on individual liberties and responsibilities. That doesn't mean society should completely break down. It doesn't mean that certain people should take a position of power and direct society towards a common goal. It seems you're confusing individual liberty for anarchy. Education is important for society, there's a reason mass education is compulsory in most countries that can afford it, because individuals do better and society does better. You want individual responsibility, but unwilling to teach the skills that kids will need in order to exercise this responsibility. It's bizarre.
you mean life isn't fair?Don't work for minimum wage all your life assholes. Try getting some skills and work experience.
What about people with problems where getting a better job isn't an option?
People with concentration problems, people with mental problems, people with learning difficulties, the list is endless.
Getting a better job (or a JOB) is always an option, just depends on how hungry you get if nobody stuffs your mouth with free food.
Is it? Do you know what it's like having problems that you can't just solve by studying more? Some people can't take in as much as others, how are they going to compete? Oh, they should just be thrown out and live in the cold under a bridge because they were born with a brain that isn't as good as someone else's?
Where do you people get off?
DUH
it's up to you to find out what skills will bring the best price in the marketplace and then get the training you need to perform those skillsThe problem is a country needs certain skills. Look at Germany, they set out to be a high tech manufacturer, seeing, rightly, that if you stick to the cheap stuff, that countries like China, Taiwan, Vietnam will be able to come along with low skilled and much cheaper workers and take over your jobs. The US is trying to get back jobs that it shouldn't have, and because it hasn't gone out there to get higher tech jobs, many of these are being done abroad too or require foreign workers to do them. This is a problem.
Some countries are deciding how they want their society to be, and they decided they want their society to be strong. You lot have decided you want low paid manufacturing jobs. I don't get it.
A society is strong when people have the freedom to be and do what they want
Do you want to live in a country where you are told that you have to be a plumber because the country needs plumbers or would you rather make your own choices
The individual always trumps society
Right, so a kid at the age of 12 decides what skills he needs, but the school he goes to doesn't provide those skills, then what?
A society is strong when people get to choose, but too much choice doesn't make society stronger, you still need people to do certain things. Is society strong when people get conscripted? Sure, but they don't have the choice, do they?
I'm not talking about telling people to be a plumber. Hey, I want to be a multi billionaire, but the job vacancy for that one is taken by someone else. So where's my choice? Oh, the choice is there, I can choose to pursue something, that doesn't mean there's going to be room for me. Plenty of kids apply for schools they can't get into because others are better, so they have to do something they don't want to do. That's life.
What I'm talking about is saying "hey, we need 50,000 kids to study to be a plumber this year, and 2,000 to be engineers, you can apply to be an engineer, but if you don't make it, there are plenty of available spaces in plumbing"
You say the individual trumps the society, yet it doesn't. You can't say whatever the hell you want, society makes rules that you have to abide by or go to prison, how is this the individual trumping society exactly?
The right go on and on and on about how the left are destroying morals, morals are about society not the individual. Give me a break.
no kid at 12 knows what skills he needs and when he decides what skills he needs he then can find a place to get training in those skills
it isn't rocket science
Man you do like mixing your metaphors don't you? Rules or laws are a completely different matter than individual responsibility.
we are a country based on individual liberties and the responsibilities that go along with those liberties we are not and never will be a collective
Ah ha. No kid knows what they need for the rest of their life. So it's up to the adults then? It's up to people who know what skills are needed in society to go out there and make sure it happens.
Yes, the US is a country based on individual liberties and responsibilities. That doesn't mean society should completely break down. It doesn't mean that certain people should take a position of power and direct society towards a common goal. It seems you're confusing individual liberty for anarchy. Education is important for society, there's a reason mass education is compulsory in most countries that can afford it, because individuals do better and society does better. You want individual responsibility, but unwilling to teach the skills that kids will need in order to exercise this responsibility. It's bizarre.
You just made a good case for bringing back the draft.
.
it's up to you to find out what skills will bring the best price in the marketplace and then get the training you need to perform those skills
A society is strong when people have the freedom to be and do what they want
Do you want to live in a country where you are told that you have to be a plumber because the country needs plumbers or would you rather make your own choices
The individual always trumps society
Right, so a kid at the age of 12 decides what skills he needs, but the school he goes to doesn't provide those skills, then what?
A society is strong when people get to choose, but too much choice doesn't make society stronger, you still need people to do certain things. Is society strong when people get conscripted? Sure, but they don't have the choice, do they?
I'm not talking about telling people to be a plumber. Hey, I want to be a multi billionaire, but the job vacancy for that one is taken by someone else. So where's my choice? Oh, the choice is there, I can choose to pursue something, that doesn't mean there's going to be room for me. Plenty of kids apply for schools they can't get into because others are better, so they have to do something they don't want to do. That's life.
What I'm talking about is saying "hey, we need 50,000 kids to study to be a plumber this year, and 2,000 to be engineers, you can apply to be an engineer, but if you don't make it, there are plenty of available spaces in plumbing"
You say the individual trumps the society, yet it doesn't. You can't say whatever the hell you want, society makes rules that you have to abide by or go to prison, how is this the individual trumping society exactly?
The right go on and on and on about how the left are destroying morals, morals are about society not the individual. Give me a break.
no kid at 12 knows what skills he needs and when he decides what skills he needs he then can find a place to get training in those skills
it isn't rocket science
Man you do like mixing your metaphors don't you? Rules or laws are a completely different matter than individual responsibility.
we are a country based on individual liberties and the responsibilities that go along with those liberties we are not and never will be a collective
Ah ha. No kid knows what they need for the rest of their life. So it's up to the adults then? It's up to people who know what skills are needed in society to go out there and make sure it happens.
Yes, the US is a country based on individual liberties and responsibilities. That doesn't mean society should completely break down. It doesn't mean that certain people should take a position of power and direct society towards a common goal. It seems you're confusing individual liberty for anarchy. Education is important for society, there's a reason mass education is compulsory in most countries that can afford it, because individuals do better and society does better. You want individual responsibility, but unwilling to teach the skills that kids will need in order to exercise this responsibility. It's bizarre.
You just made a good case for bringing back the draft.
.
Well personally I think the Armed Forces could play a great role in sorting out kids who are struggling. If kids can't get a job, then give them the choice to go into the military, get an education etc. The problem is, the military is used by the rich, and the kids turn into cannon fodder so rich people can have another house.
Right, so a kid at the age of 12 decides what skills he needs, but the school he goes to doesn't provide those skills, then what?
A society is strong when people get to choose, but too much choice doesn't make society stronger, you still need people to do certain things. Is society strong when people get conscripted? Sure, but they don't have the choice, do they?
I'm not talking about telling people to be a plumber. Hey, I want to be a multi billionaire, but the job vacancy for that one is taken by someone else. So where's my choice? Oh, the choice is there, I can choose to pursue something, that doesn't mean there's going to be room for me. Plenty of kids apply for schools they can't get into because others are better, so they have to do something they don't want to do. That's life.
What I'm talking about is saying "hey, we need 50,000 kids to study to be a plumber this year, and 2,000 to be engineers, you can apply to be an engineer, but if you don't make it, there are plenty of available spaces in plumbing"
You say the individual trumps the society, yet it doesn't. You can't say whatever the hell you want, society makes rules that you have to abide by or go to prison, how is this the individual trumping society exactly?
The right go on and on and on about how the left are destroying morals, morals are about society not the individual. Give me a break.
no kid at 12 knows what skills he needs and when he decides what skills he needs he then can find a place to get training in those skills
it isn't rocket science
Man you do like mixing your metaphors don't you? Rules or laws are a completely different matter than individual responsibility.
we are a country based on individual liberties and the responsibilities that go along with those liberties we are not and never will be a collective
Ah ha. No kid knows what they need for the rest of their life. So it's up to the adults then? It's up to people who know what skills are needed in society to go out there and make sure it happens.
Yes, the US is a country based on individual liberties and responsibilities. That doesn't mean society should completely break down. It doesn't mean that certain people should take a position of power and direct society towards a common goal. It seems you're confusing individual liberty for anarchy. Education is important for society, there's a reason mass education is compulsory in most countries that can afford it, because individuals do better and society does better. You want individual responsibility, but unwilling to teach the skills that kids will need in order to exercise this responsibility. It's bizarre.
You just made a good case for bringing back the draft.
.
Well personally I think the Armed Forces could play a great role in sorting out kids who are struggling. If kids can't get a job, then give them the choice to go into the military, get an education etc. The problem is, the military is used by the rich, and the kids turn into cannon fodder so rich people can have another house.
Really you can get another house if you start a war?
You know the first part of your post made sense..
The last part is well.... ridiculous.
no kid at 12 knows what skills he needs and when he decides what skills he needs he then can find a place to get training in those skills
it isn't rocket science
Man you do like mixing your metaphors don't you? Rules or laws are a completely different matter than individual responsibility.
we are a country based on individual liberties and the responsibilities that go along with those liberties we are not and never will be a collective
Ah ha. No kid knows what they need for the rest of their life. So it's up to the adults then? It's up to people who know what skills are needed in society to go out there and make sure it happens.
Yes, the US is a country based on individual liberties and responsibilities. That doesn't mean society should completely break down. It doesn't mean that certain people should take a position of power and direct society towards a common goal. It seems you're confusing individual liberty for anarchy. Education is important for society, there's a reason mass education is compulsory in most countries that can afford it, because individuals do better and society does better. You want individual responsibility, but unwilling to teach the skills that kids will need in order to exercise this responsibility. It's bizarre.
You just made a good case for bringing back the draft.
.
Well personally I think the Armed Forces could play a great role in sorting out kids who are struggling. If kids can't get a job, then give them the choice to go into the military, get an education etc. The problem is, the military is used by the rich, and the kids turn into cannon fodder so rich people can have another house.
Really you can get another house if you start a war?
You know the first part of your post made sense..
The last part is well.... ridiculous.
Yeah, well I thought I was talking to someone who could actually get it. But I'll go simple and explain it for you. Another house is another way of saying they get more money. So by going to war they make themselves rich. Got it?
Yes, the US is a country based on individual liberties and responsibilities. That doesn't mean society should completely break down. It doesn't mean that certain people should take a position of power and direct society towards a common goal. It seems you're confusing individual liberty for anarchy. Education is important for society, there's a reason mass education is compulsory in most countries that can afford it, because individuals do better and society does better. You want individual responsibility, but unwilling to teach the skills that kids will need in order to exercise this responsibility. It's bizarre.
no kid at 12 knows what skills he needs and when he decides what skills he needs he then can find a place to get training in those skills
it isn't rocket science
Man you do like mixing your metaphors don't you? Rules or laws are a completely different matter than individual responsibility.
we are a country based on individual liberties and the responsibilities that go along with those liberties we are not and never will be a collective
Ah ha. No kid knows what they need for the rest of their life. So it's up to the adults then? It's up to people who know what skills are needed in society to go out there and make sure it happens.
Yes, the US is a country based on individual liberties and responsibilities. That doesn't mean society should completely break down. It doesn't mean that certain people should take a position of power and direct society towards a common goal. It seems you're confusing individual liberty for anarchy. Education is important for society, there's a reason mass education is compulsory in most countries that can afford it, because individuals do better and society does better. You want individual responsibility, but unwilling to teach the skills that kids will need in order to exercise this responsibility. It's bizarre.
You just made a good case for bringing back the draft.
.
Well personally I think the Armed Forces could play a great role in sorting out kids who are struggling. If kids can't get a job, then give them the choice to go into the military, get an education etc. The problem is, the military is used by the rich, and the kids turn into cannon fodder so rich people can have another house.
Really you can get another house if you start a war?
You know the first part of your post made sense..
The last part is well.... ridiculous.
Yeah, well I thought I was talking to someone who could actually get it. But I'll go simple and explain it for you. Another house is another way of saying they get more money. So by going to war they make themselves rich. Got it?
we already have education in this country and it's the politicians who fuck it upit's up to you to find out what skills will bring the best price in the marketplace and then get the training you need to perform those skillsIts up to the US to get people trained?
I always thought that was MY job.
The real world.
You should visit sometime
The problem is a country needs certain skills. Look at Germany, they set out to be a high tech manufacturer, seeing, rightly, that if you stick to the cheap stuff, that countries like China, Taiwan, Vietnam will be able to come along with low skilled and much cheaper workers and take over your jobs. The US is trying to get back jobs that it shouldn't have, and because it hasn't gone out there to get higher tech jobs, many of these are being done abroad too or require foreign workers to do them. This is a problem.
Some countries are deciding how they want their society to be, and they decided they want their society to be strong. You lot have decided you want low paid manufacturing jobs. I don't get it.
A society is strong when people have the freedom to be and do what they want
Do you want to live in a country where you are told that you have to be a plumber because the country needs plumbers or would you rather make your own choices
The individual always trumps society
Right, so a kid at the age of 12 decides what skills he needs, but the school he goes to doesn't provide those skills, then what?
A society is strong when people get to choose, but too much choice doesn't make society stronger, you still need people to do certain things. Is society strong when people get conscripted? Sure, but they don't have the choice, do they?
I'm not talking about telling people to be a plumber. Hey, I want to be a multi billionaire, but the job vacancy for that one is taken by someone else. So where's my choice? Oh, the choice is there, I can choose to pursue something, that doesn't mean there's going to be room for me. Plenty of kids apply for schools they can't get into because others are better, so they have to do something they don't want to do. That's life.
What I'm talking about is saying "hey, we need 50,000 kids to study to be a plumber this year, and 2,000 to be engineers, you can apply to be an engineer, but if you don't make it, there are plenty of available spaces in plumbing"
You say the individual trumps the society, yet it doesn't. You can't say whatever the hell you want, society makes rules that you have to abide by or go to prison, how is this the individual trumping society exactly?
The right go on and on and on about how the left are destroying morals, morals are about society not the individual. Give me a break.
no kid at 12 knows what skills he needs and when he decides what skills he needs he then can find a place to get training in those skills
it isn't rocket science
Man you do like mixing your metaphors don't you? Rules or laws are a completely different matter than individual responsibility.
we are a country based on individual liberties and the responsibilities that go along with those liberties we are not and never will be a collective
Ah ha. No kid knows what they need for the rest of their life. So it's up to the adults then? It's up to people who know what skills are needed in society to go out there and make sure it happens.
Yes, the US is a country based on individual liberties and responsibilities. That doesn't mean society should completely break down. It doesn't mean that certain people should take a position of power and direct society towards a common goal. It seems you're confusing individual liberty for anarchy. Education is important for society, there's a reason mass education is compulsory in most countries that can afford it, because individuals do better and society does better. You want individual responsibility, but unwilling to teach the skills that kids will need in order to exercise this responsibility. It's bizarre.
you mean life isn't fair?Don't work for minimum wage all your life assholes. Try getting some skills and work experience.
What about people with problems where getting a better job isn't an option?
People with concentration problems, people with mental problems, people with learning difficulties, the list is endless.
Getting a better job (or a JOB) is always an option, just depends on how hungry you get if nobody stuffs your mouth with free food.
Is it? Do you know what it's like having problems that you can't just solve by studying more? Some people can't take in as much as others, how are they going to compete? Oh, they should just be thrown out and live in the cold under a bridge because they were born with a brain that isn't as good as someone else's?
Where do you people get off?
DUH
No, not really. I mean that fairness should come from certain quarters. Govt shouldn't be going around choosing arbitrarily. All kids should be given the same opportunities, like education. What they make of that education is something quite different.
Ah ha. No kid knows what they need for the rest of their life. So it's up to the adults then? It's up to people who know what skills are needed in society to go out there and make sure it happens.
Yes, the US is a country based on individual liberties and responsibilities. That doesn't mean society should completely break down. It doesn't mean that certain people should take a position of power and direct society towards a common goal. It seems you're confusing individual liberty for anarchy. Education is important for society, there's a reason mass education is compulsory in most countries that can afford it, because individuals do better and society does better. You want individual responsibility, but unwilling to teach the skills that kids will need in order to exercise this responsibility. It's bizarre.
You just made a good case for bringing back the draft.
.
Well personally I think the Armed Forces could play a great role in sorting out kids who are struggling. If kids can't get a job, then give them the choice to go into the military, get an education etc. The problem is, the military is used by the rich, and the kids turn into cannon fodder so rich people can have another house.
Really you can get another house if you start a war?
You know the first part of your post made sense..
The last part is well.... ridiculous.
Yeah, well I thought I was talking to someone who could actually get it. But I'll go simple and explain it for you. Another house is another way of saying they get more money. So by going to war they make themselves rich. Got it?
Not true though. So, yeah we get what you are saying is a lie. Is that what you are pointing out?
Yes, the US is a country based on individual liberties and responsibilities. That doesn't mean society should completely break down. It doesn't mean that certain people should take a position of power and direct society towards a common goal. It seems you're confusing individual liberty for anarchy. Education is important for society, there's a reason mass education is compulsory in most countries that can afford it, because individuals do better and society does better. You want individual responsibility, but unwilling to teach the skills that kids will need in order to exercise this responsibility. It's bizarre.
Regarding the bolded portion above - is that a typo? The rest of your post seems to indicate that you support the idea of using government to "direct society towards a common goal". And I think this is a very dangerous idea to accept. To me, it's the core question that libertarianism raises.
Yes, the US is a country based on individual liberties and responsibilities. That doesn't mean society should completely break down. It doesn't mean that certain people should take a position of power and direct society towards a common goal. It seems you're confusing individual liberty for anarchy. Education is important for society, there's a reason mass education is compulsory in most countries that can afford it, because individuals do better and society does better. You want individual responsibility, but unwilling to teach the skills that kids will need in order to exercise this responsibility. It's bizarre.
Regarding the bolded portion above - is that a typo? The rest of your post seems to indicate that you support the idea of using government to "direct society towards a common goal". And I think this is a very dangerous idea to accept. To me, it's the core question that libertarianism raises.
Yes, should be "shouldn't".
Well I'm not a libertarian, so... I think society is going to be ruled, it's human nature, every society is ruled by someone, we can't stop it, we can just try and make it as acceptable as possible.
Which is why the American experiment stands out above all else,,since we the people rule here.....Yes, the US is a country based on individual liberties and responsibilities. That doesn't mean society should completely break down. It doesn't mean that certain people should take a position of power and direct society towards a common goal. It seems you're confusing individual liberty for anarchy. Education is important for society, there's a reason mass education is compulsory in most countries that can afford it, because individuals do better and society does better. You want individual responsibility, but unwilling to teach the skills that kids will need in order to exercise this responsibility. It's bizarre.
Regarding the bolded portion above - is that a typo? The rest of your post seems to indicate that you support the idea of using government to "direct society towards a common goal". And I think this is a very dangerous idea to accept. To me, it's the core question that libertarianism raises.
Yes, should be "shouldn't".
Well I'm not a libertarian, so... I think society is going to be ruled, it's human nature, every society is ruled by someone, we can't stop it, we can just try and make it as acceptable as possible.
we already have education in this country and it's the politicians who fuck it upit's up to you to find out what skills will bring the best price in the marketplace and then get the training you need to perform those skillsThe problem is a country needs certain skills. Look at Germany, they set out to be a high tech manufacturer, seeing, rightly, that if you stick to the cheap stuff, that countries like China, Taiwan, Vietnam will be able to come along with low skilled and much cheaper workers and take over your jobs. The US is trying to get back jobs that it shouldn't have, and because it hasn't gone out there to get higher tech jobs, many of these are being done abroad too or require foreign workers to do them. This is a problem.
Some countries are deciding how they want their society to be, and they decided they want their society to be strong. You lot have decided you want low paid manufacturing jobs. I don't get it.
A society is strong when people have the freedom to be and do what they want
Do you want to live in a country where you are told that you have to be a plumber because the country needs plumbers or would you rather make your own choices
The individual always trumps society
Right, so a kid at the age of 12 decides what skills he needs, but the school he goes to doesn't provide those skills, then what?
A society is strong when people get to choose, but too much choice doesn't make society stronger, you still need people to do certain things. Is society strong when people get conscripted? Sure, but they don't have the choice, do they?
I'm not talking about telling people to be a plumber. Hey, I want to be a multi billionaire, but the job vacancy for that one is taken by someone else. So where's my choice? Oh, the choice is there, I can choose to pursue something, that doesn't mean there's going to be room for me. Plenty of kids apply for schools they can't get into because others are better, so they have to do something they don't want to do. That's life.
What I'm talking about is saying "hey, we need 50,000 kids to study to be a plumber this year, and 2,000 to be engineers, you can apply to be an engineer, but if you don't make it, there are plenty of available spaces in plumbing"
You say the individual trumps the society, yet it doesn't. You can't say whatever the hell you want, society makes rules that you have to abide by or go to prison, how is this the individual trumping society exactly?
The right go on and on and on about how the left are destroying morals, morals are about society not the individual. Give me a break.
no kid at 12 knows what skills he needs and when he decides what skills he needs he then can find a place to get training in those skills
it isn't rocket science
Man you do like mixing your metaphors don't you? Rules or laws are a completely different matter than individual responsibility.
we are a country based on individual liberties and the responsibilities that go along with those liberties we are not and never will be a collective
Ah ha. No kid knows what they need for the rest of their life. So it's up to the adults then? It's up to people who know what skills are needed in society to go out there and make sure it happens.
Yes, the US is a country based on individual liberties and responsibilities. That doesn't mean society should completely break down. It doesn't mean that certain people should take a position of power and direct society towards a common goal. It seems you're confusing individual liberty for anarchy. Education is important for society, there's a reason mass education is compulsory in most countries that can afford it, because individuals do better and society does better. You want individual responsibility, but unwilling to teach the skills that kids will need in order to exercise this responsibility. It's bizarre.
You want to do something good for society then get rid of social promotion and grading on a curve and accept the reality that some people fail and that soon er or later each person has to decide what it is he or she will do.
I don't know about you but I don't want anyone telling me what to do for the rest of my life because some asshole on high says it's good for society
Yes, the US is a country based on individual liberties and responsibilities. That doesn't mean society should completely break down. It doesn't mean that certain people should take a position of power and direct society towards a common goal. It seems you're confusing individual liberty for anarchy. Education is important for society, there's a reason mass education is compulsory in most countries that can afford it, because individuals do better and society does better. You want individual responsibility, but unwilling to teach the skills that kids will need in order to exercise this responsibility. It's bizarre.
Regarding the bolded portion above - is that a typo? The rest of your post seems to indicate that you support the idea of using government to "direct society towards a common goal". And I think this is a very dangerous idea to accept. To me, it's the core question that libertarianism raises.
Yes, should be "shouldn't".
Well I'm not a libertarian, so... I think society is going to be ruled, it's human nature, every society is ruled by someone, we can't stop it, we can just try and make it as acceptable as possible.
I guess that's the difference. I don't accept that we need to accept subjugation.
We will....we already have education in this country and it's the politicians who fuck it upit's up to you to find out what skills will bring the best price in the marketplace and then get the training you need to perform those skills
A society is strong when people have the freedom to be and do what they want
Do you want to live in a country where you are told that you have to be a plumber because the country needs plumbers or would you rather make your own choices
The individual always trumps society
Right, so a kid at the age of 12 decides what skills he needs, but the school he goes to doesn't provide those skills, then what?
A society is strong when people get to choose, but too much choice doesn't make society stronger, you still need people to do certain things. Is society strong when people get conscripted? Sure, but they don't have the choice, do they?
I'm not talking about telling people to be a plumber. Hey, I want to be a multi billionaire, but the job vacancy for that one is taken by someone else. So where's my choice? Oh, the choice is there, I can choose to pursue something, that doesn't mean there's going to be room for me. Plenty of kids apply for schools they can't get into because others are better, so they have to do something they don't want to do. That's life.
What I'm talking about is saying "hey, we need 50,000 kids to study to be a plumber this year, and 2,000 to be engineers, you can apply to be an engineer, but if you don't make it, there are plenty of available spaces in plumbing"
You say the individual trumps the society, yet it doesn't. You can't say whatever the hell you want, society makes rules that you have to abide by or go to prison, how is this the individual trumping society exactly?
The right go on and on and on about how the left are destroying morals, morals are about society not the individual. Give me a break.
no kid at 12 knows what skills he needs and when he decides what skills he needs he then can find a place to get training in those skills
it isn't rocket science
Man you do like mixing your metaphors don't you? Rules or laws are a completely different matter than individual responsibility.
we are a country based on individual liberties and the responsibilities that go along with those liberties we are not and never will be a collective
Ah ha. No kid knows what they need for the rest of their life. So it's up to the adults then? It's up to people who know what skills are needed in society to go out there and make sure it happens.
Yes, the US is a country based on individual liberties and responsibilities. That doesn't mean society should completely break down. It doesn't mean that certain people should take a position of power and direct society towards a common goal. It seems you're confusing individual liberty for anarchy. Education is important for society, there's a reason mass education is compulsory in most countries that can afford it, because individuals do better and society does better. You want individual responsibility, but unwilling to teach the skills that kids will need in order to exercise this responsibility. It's bizarre.
You want to do something good for society then get rid of social promotion and grading on a curve and accept the reality that some people fail and that soon er or later each person has to decide what it is he or she will do.
I don't know about you but I don't want anyone telling me what to do for the rest of my life because some asshole on high says it's good for society
The problem is nothing you're saying is going to be able to be backed up with any evidence, is it? Hence why you didn't bother to back what you said up.
The thing is, I can prove that some social engineering actually has worked and had a positive effect. You look at places in the US with less positive social engineering and you end up with places like Louisiana and Mississippi where nothing seems to ever get better.
You don't want someone telling you what to do? But it happens anyway, go figure. You think you've got all this freedom of choice, and yet... you don't.
