Minimum wage

[danielpalos]

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Really? Prove that.

Prove it? Okay.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/nyregion/donald-trump-tax-breaks-real-estate.html?_r=0

"
A Trump Empire Built on Inside Connections and $885 Million in Tax Breaks"


Donald Trump: Developer has thrived with government's generosity

"From his first high-profile project in New York City in the 1970s to his recent campaigns to reduce taxes on property he owns around the country, Trump has displayed a consistent pattern. He courted public officials, sought their backing for government tax breaks under extraordinarily beneficial terms and fought any resistance to deals he negotiated."

"Karen Burstein, a former auditor general of New York City, reviewed a major Trump project in the 1980s and concluded he had "cheated" the city out of nearly $2.9 million. Decades later, Burstein said she was still appalled at the way Trump operated."

"Referring to how he managed to win a 40-year tax abatement for rebuilding a crumbling hotel at Grand Central Station — a deal that in the first decade cost taxpayers $60 million"

"Trump also sought access to a federal program that would have guaranteed a $356-million low-interest loan in exchange for designating a percentage of the units for lower-income families."

"He eventually settled for a $34-million reduction, which local officials said cost millions in improperly reduced tax revenue."

"In Las Vegas, Trump's goal was to lower the taxable value of the recently constructed Trump International Hotel and Tower. His team, which included the former chairman of the county Board of Equalization — the agency that decides tax matters — won a reduction last year in the taxable value from $180 million to $8.6 million."

Donald Trump Has Mastered the Art of the Tax Break

"
The exemption, valued at $163.775 million in total on commercial property taxes, began in 2004 and ends in 2016."

First answer this question....

Do you believe that the entire population of the country, and weighted heavily towards the lower 50% of the country, is getting something for nothing? Is costing the tax payers hundreds of billions? And is that wrong?

Because everyone is getting tax deductions, just like Trump. Moreover, unlike Trump, the lower half of the country pays almost no income tax at all. Zero.

So is that wrong? Because that's what your article points to.

See unlike Trump, the lower class of this country, the lower 40%, actually gets money from the government. Not a tax 'break'... but an actual tax paid for check.

Trump only gets a tax break. Which means he still pays tax.... just not as much.

So if you want to make the claim that getting a tax break is bad, and "getting something for nothing", and that tax breaks 'cost the tax payer'...

Then by your own standard, the absolute worst people in the country are the the entire lower 50% of wage earners.

By YOUR STANDARD... that is what you are saying.

But of course your entire premise is wrong to begin with.
Trump didn't get something for nothing. He lost money in taxes, not gained... he just didn't lose as much.

And moreover, his tax breaks didn't "cost" the tax payers anything. If he had not been giving the tax break, the hotels would not have been built at all. If they had not been built at all, he would have paid zero tax, which is less than tax minus a break.

Moreover, the hotel itself generate income tax from the people working there... .sales taxes from the people staying there, and tourism or business taxes from the activities of the people who come to New York city because there is now a hotel for them to stay at.

By any conceivable measure, Trumps activities gained far more revenue in taxes, than was possibly "lost" by a tax break.

Similarly, if Trump had not gotten a tax break for low income housing, he most likely would not have built the low income housing, and low income people would not have had houses to live in, and no one would have been employed to build or maintain the low income housing, and no one would have lived there generating income taxes from a New York residence. Especially when New York has a chronic shortage of low income housing.

So your entire premise is completely false, even before I pointed out that by your logic, the lower 50% of people in the country are worse, and "cost" the tax payer more than Trump ever has.

A lot of people get tax money off, which seems a little ridiculous. It seems to be designed to make money for lawyers.

So the hotels wouldn't have been built. If there were the demand for those hotels, they'd have been built, right? But no, he builds a hotel that wasn't necessary. Isn't it the right that wants govt to stay out of business? I mean, I'm probably closer to most conservatives than liberals on such issues.

No. Demand is only one component. Demand, doesn't magically create supply. Never has.

Take China for the 50 years before the capitalist reforms. Was there no demand for food? No demand for housing? No demand for stuff, or jobs, or cars, or everything else?

Of course there was. Why didn't it happen? Because no one could profit from it.

When you make something unprofitable to do, it doesn't matter how much demand you have.

Take the oil production in Venezuela. Once the Venezuela government nationalized the oil companies, there was no longer any profit into investing in oil wells. Thus oil production has been falling all these years while oil production in the US has been vastly increasing. And Venezuela has more oil reserves, than any other country on the planet.

So, no, the answer to your question is no. All business is only built if it is profitable to do it. Doesn't matter how much demand there is for the service, if the cost of doing business, which taxes in New York are a large part of, is too high to be profitable, then the will not be built.

If you need more proof, just look at the housing shortage in New York.

Severe Shortage of NYC Affordable Housing Creates 1,000 to 1 Odds For Applicants

2.5 Million people applied to get these micro homes.

What you are looking at, is the entire home.. That's it. That couch folds out to a bed. Everything you need in one "micro-house".

Why do they have such shortages, and at the same time.......

View attachment 104425

Abandoned apartment buildings.

Why is this? How is it that they have a massive housing shortage, where people are buying "micro-homes", and yet have completely abandoned apartment buildings, left vacant in the middle of New York city?

Real simple. They have rent control. The rent control makes providing the apartments unprofitable. Because it's unprofitable, all the demand of literally MILLIONS of people, is irrelevant. The owners ditch the property, and it is left empty, in a city of millions of people completely desperate for homes.

So you say, well if that's true, then who built those micro-homes? Read the article.... the builders are getting subsidized by the government. If they hadn't been subsidized... they wouldn't have built those homes.

Same with Trump and the Hotel. No tax breaks, making it profitable to build the hotel? The hotel would not have been built.

Lousy management? Let's ask a professional real estate person, how to solve that dilemma.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No one with a strong work ethic wants to be paid for not working

I for one would pick up dog shit for 10 cents a pile before I went on welfare. You on the other hand would say you "deserve" 30K a year for doing nothing

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Taken for free?
How many tax deductions have you taken in your lifetime?

This is why I am for a flat tax on gross income it gets rid of all the crap

I've never had a tax deduction in my life. But flat tax is inherently unfair as those who earn more tend to use more of the services that govt provides and therefore should be paying a higher percentage.

of course you have

You get a personal deduction. mortgage deduction, child deduction and many more

And no those who earn more use less services. They put their kids in private schools yet still pay for public schools for example they don't use roads any more or less than anyone else they certainly don't call the cops more often

and they would pay more with a flat tax than people who make less

a lower flat rate on all income no matter what the source gets rid of all the bullshit in the tax code and will save us billions a year in enforcement not to mention tax preparation

Assuming I have a mortgage, assuming I have children, assuming many things. Assuming I'm American, assuming I work in the US, assuming many more things beyond that.

You don't seem to understand that the rich really do use more of those services. Who do you think benefits from US soldiers going off to Iraq to die exactly? It's not the poor, I'll tell you that.

Yes, they're pay more, but they pay more now anyway, it just wouldn't be a fair "more". Coming at me with little soundbites isn't going to improve your argument.

The military is not a service. and you do take and have taken income tax deductions. Everyone who files an income tax does

No some people paying 34% on an earned dollar and some people paying 0% on an earned dollar is not fair.

Tell me do you pay more sales tax on the 10th TV you buy just because you have more TVs? No.

 

[danielpalos]

it is a low rate, to ensure Capital works, not fools or horses. full employment of capital resources does not require a work ethic from the Age of Iron. Only the morally challenged, right wing, never gets it.

No one with a strong work ethic wants to be paid for not working

I for one would pick up dog shit for 10 cents a pile before I went on welfare. You on the other hand would say you "deserve" 30K a year for doing nothing

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Really? Prove that.

Moreover, everyone will take something for nothing. If you are stupid enough to pay me to sit at home, I'll take your money. Who wouldn't?

As I've said many times, my problem isn't with people taking welfare. I don't sit here and say "I can't believe people are taking welfare and food stamps!".... I don't say that.

I say... "I can't believe we are stupid enough to give everyone food stamps and welfare".

People adapt to the incentives you give them. If you give something for nothing, they'll take something for nothing. It's YOUR fault for being that dumb. Not their fault for taking advantage of your incompetence.

Again, I pointed out that the Native Americans are the absolute most subsidized group in the US today. And they have the lowest income, and wealth in the entire country.

Why? Because they sit there, do nothing, and collect handouts.

The native American tribe not recognized by the government, which collects no handouts, lives an American standard of living.

Same was true in Japan with the Zombie Firms. These dead firms with zero chance of being profitable, but collecting government bailouts to keep them open. They had no reason to move on to profitable adventures, because they were being paid to do nothing. The result was stagnation for the entire country.

Was it the firms fault for taking the money? No. Why wouldn't they? Everyone is going to take what they can get. It's human nature.

It's your fault for subsidizing stupidity.

So when you say Trump is taking money.... (assuming it's true), why wouldn't he? It's your fault for giving out the money.

End all those government grants. End the subsidies. I don't see right-wing people demanding more government handouts. I don't see Right-wingers demanding more hand outs.

You show me the conservative on this forum, promoting more government grants to business? Where's that thread?

When you complain about "so and so gets government handouts!"..... the only person you can blame is yourself and other left-wingers like you. Not us. We don't push that ideology. We want less government spending, and less taxes, and less handouts.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation means less people will need welfare.

no you are just renaming welfare to unemployment

nope; two different things that can both act as a social safety net. one is market friendly, the other is a safety net of "last resort".

 

[Skull Pilot]

No one with a strong work ethic wants to be paid for not working

I for one would pick up dog shit for 10 cents a pile before I went on welfare. You on the other hand would say you "deserve" 30K a year for doing nothing

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Really? Prove that.

Moreover, everyone will take something for nothing. If you are stupid enough to pay me to sit at home, I'll take your money. Who wouldn't?

As I've said many times, my problem isn't with people taking welfare. I don't sit here and say "I can't believe people are taking welfare and food stamps!".... I don't say that.

I say... "I can't believe we are stupid enough to give everyone food stamps and welfare".

People adapt to the incentives you give them. If you give something for nothing, they'll take something for nothing. It's YOUR fault for being that dumb. Not their fault for taking advantage of your incompetence.

Again, I pointed out that the Native Americans are the absolute most subsidized group in the US today. And they have the lowest income, and wealth in the entire country.

Why? Because they sit there, do nothing, and collect handouts.

The native American tribe not recognized by the government, which collects no handouts, lives an American standard of living.

Same was true in Japan with the Zombie Firms. These dead firms with zero chance of being profitable, but collecting government bailouts to keep them open. They had no reason to move on to profitable adventures, because they were being paid to do nothing. The result was stagnation for the entire country.

Was it the firms fault for taking the money? No. Why wouldn't they? Everyone is going to take what they can get. It's human nature.

It's your fault for subsidizing stupidity.

So when you say Trump is taking money.... (assuming it's true), why wouldn't he? It's your fault for giving out the money.

End all those government grants. End the subsidies. I don't see right-wing people demanding more government handouts. I don't see Right-wingers demanding more hand outs.

You show me the conservative on this forum, promoting more government grants to business? Where's that thread?

When you complain about "so and so gets government handouts!"..... the only person you can blame is yourself and other left-wingers like you. Not us. We don't push that ideology. We want less government spending, and less taxes, and less handouts.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation means less people will need welfare.

no you are just renaming welfare to unemployment

nope; two different things that can both act as a social safety net. one is market friendly, the other is a safety net of "last resort".

taking money for choosing not to work is welfare.

 

[danielpalos]

No one with a strong work ethic wants to be paid for not working

I for one would pick up dog shit for 10 cents a pile before I went on welfare. You on the other hand would say you "deserve" 30K a year for doing nothing

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Really? Prove that.

Prove it? Okay.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/nyregion/donald-trump-tax-breaks-real-estate.html?_r=0

"
A Trump Empire Built on Inside Connections and $885 Million in Tax Breaks"


Donald Trump: Developer has thrived with government's generosity

"From his first high-profile project in New York City in the 1970s to his recent campaigns to reduce taxes on property he owns around the country, Trump has displayed a consistent pattern. He courted public officials, sought their backing for government tax breaks under extraordinarily beneficial terms and fought any resistance to deals he negotiated."

"Karen Burstein, a former auditor general of New York City, reviewed a major Trump project in the 1980s and concluded he had "cheated" the city out of nearly $2.9 million. Decades later, Burstein said she was still appalled at the way Trump operated."

"Referring to how he managed to win a 40-year tax abatement for rebuilding a crumbling hotel at Grand Central Station — a deal that in the first decade cost taxpayers $60 million"

"Trump also sought access to a federal program that would have guaranteed a $356-million low-interest loan in exchange for designating a percentage of the units for lower-income families."

"He eventually settled for a $34-million reduction, which local officials said cost millions in improperly reduced tax revenue."

"In Las Vegas, Trump's goal was to lower the taxable value of the recently constructed Trump International Hotel and Tower. His team, which included the former chairman of the county Board of Equalization — the agency that decides tax matters — won a reduction last year in the taxable value from $180 million to $8.6 million."

Donald Trump Has Mastered the Art of the Tax Break

"
The exemption, valued at $163.775 million in total on commercial property taxes, began in 2004 and ends in 2016."

should the poor have to care how much the rich make and how they make it? if not, then the rich should care about how much the poor make or how they make it. equality is a challenge, for the right wing.

getting paid for doing nothing is not making money it is taking money

circulating money is what creates a positive multiplier effect, not a work ethic from the Age of Iron.

 

[danielpalos]

what if your too stupid to do anything else?

Are you smart enough to do anything productive enough that people will pay you to do so?

LOL....

We know you're not. We're trying to educate you in spite of your chosen handicap.

BTW, You choose to be stupid. People here have been trying to educate you.

let's say im not lets say I'm barely smart enough to push a broom or flip a burger? what should I do?

How is that anyone's problem but yours?

How is you bitching about your taxes anyone's problem but yours?

So I can stop paying taxes and fix my problem?

yes, either become really poor or really rich.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Really? Prove that.

Prove it? Okay.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/nyregion/donald-trump-tax-breaks-real-estate.html?_r=0

"
A Trump Empire Built on Inside Connections and $885 Million in Tax Breaks"


Donald Trump: Developer has thrived with government's generosity

"From his first high-profile project in New York City in the 1970s to his recent campaigns to reduce taxes on property he owns around the country, Trump has displayed a consistent pattern. He courted public officials, sought their backing for government tax breaks under extraordinarily beneficial terms and fought any resistance to deals he negotiated."

"Karen Burstein, a former auditor general of New York City, reviewed a major Trump project in the 1980s and concluded he had "cheated" the city out of nearly $2.9 million. Decades later, Burstein said she was still appalled at the way Trump operated."

"Referring to how he managed to win a 40-year tax abatement for rebuilding a crumbling hotel at Grand Central Station — a deal that in the first decade cost taxpayers $60 million"

"Trump also sought access to a federal program that would have guaranteed a $356-million low-interest loan in exchange for designating a percentage of the units for lower-income families."

"He eventually settled for a $34-million reduction, which local officials said cost millions in improperly reduced tax revenue."

"In Las Vegas, Trump's goal was to lower the taxable value of the recently constructed Trump International Hotel and Tower. His team, which included the former chairman of the county Board of Equalization — the agency that decides tax matters — won a reduction last year in the taxable value from $180 million to $8.6 million."

Donald Trump Has Mastered the Art of the Tax Break

"
The exemption, valued at $163.775 million in total on commercial property taxes, began in 2004 and ends in 2016."

should the poor have to care how much the rich make and how they make it? if not, then the rich should care about how much the poor make or how they make it. equality is a challenge, for the right wing.

getting paid for doing nothing is not making money it is taking money

circulating money is what creates a positive multiplier effect, not a work ethic from the Age of Iron.

If you want to circulate money the fucking earn it first
You spending the money that you take from other people does not do anything to the economy

 

[danielpalos]

it is a low rate, to ensure Capital works, not fools or horses. full employment of capital resources does not require a work ethic from the Age of Iron. Only the morally challenged, right wing, never gets it.

No one with a strong work ethic wants to be paid for not working

I for one would pick up dog shit for 10 cents a pile before I went on welfare. You on the other hand would say you "deserve" 30K a year for doing nothing

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Really? Prove that.

Moreover, everyone will take something for nothing. If you are stupid enough to pay me to sit at home, I'll take your money. Who wouldn't?

As I've said many times, my problem isn't with people taking welfare. I don't sit here and say "I can't believe people are taking welfare and food stamps!".... I don't say that.

I say... "I can't believe we are stupid enough to give everyone food stamps and welfare".

People adapt to the incentives you give them. If you give something for nothing, they'll take something for nothing. It's YOUR fault for being that dumb. Not their fault for taking advantage of your incompetence.

Again, I pointed out that the Native Americans are the absolute most subsidized group in the US today. And they have the lowest income, and wealth in the entire country.

Why? Because they sit there, do nothing, and collect handouts.

The native American tribe not recognized by the government, which collects no handouts, lives an American standard of living.

Same was true in Japan with the Zombie Firms. These dead firms with zero chance of being profitable, but collecting government bailouts to keep them open. They had no reason to move on to profitable adventures, because they were being paid to do nothing. The result was stagnation for the entire country.

Was it the firms fault for taking the money? No. Why wouldn't they? Everyone is going to take what they can get. It's human nature.

It's your fault for subsidizing stupidity.

So when you say Trump is taking money.... (assuming it's true), why wouldn't he? It's your fault for giving out the money.

End all those government grants. End the subsidies. I don't see right-wing people demanding more government handouts. I don't see Right-wingers demanding more hand outs.

You show me the conservative on this forum, promoting more government grants to business? Where's that thread?

When you complain about "so and so gets government handouts!"..... the only person you can blame is yourself and other left-wingers like you. Not us. We don't push that ideology. We want less government spending, and less taxes, and less handouts.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation means less people will need welfare.

you need a valid rebuttal; unless you don't have one and cartoons are all you can come up with.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation means less people will need welfare.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Are you smart enough to do anything productive enough that people will pay you to do so?

LOL....

We know you're not. We're trying to educate you in spite of your chosen handicap.

BTW, You choose to be stupid. People here have been trying to educate you.

let's say im not lets say I'm barely smart enough to push a broom or flip a burger? what should I do?

How is that anyone's problem but yours?

How is you bitching about your taxes anyone's problem but yours?

So I can stop paying taxes and fix my problem?

yes, either become really poor or really rich.

he aspires to be unemployed and paid 30K a year for jerking off

 

[danielpalos]

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Really? Prove that.

Moreover, everyone will take something for nothing. If you are stupid enough to pay me to sit at home, I'll take your money. Who wouldn't?

As I've said many times, my problem isn't with people taking welfare. I don't sit here and say "I can't believe people are taking welfare and food stamps!".... I don't say that.

I say... "I can't believe we are stupid enough to give everyone food stamps and welfare".

People adapt to the incentives you give them. If you give something for nothing, they'll take something for nothing. It's YOUR fault for being that dumb. Not their fault for taking advantage of your incompetence.

Again, I pointed out that the Native Americans are the absolute most subsidized group in the US today. And they have the lowest income, and wealth in the entire country.

Why? Because they sit there, do nothing, and collect handouts.

The native American tribe not recognized by the government, which collects no handouts, lives an American standard of living.

Same was true in Japan with the Zombie Firms. These dead firms with zero chance of being profitable, but collecting government bailouts to keep them open. They had no reason to move on to profitable adventures, because they were being paid to do nothing. The result was stagnation for the entire country.

Was it the firms fault for taking the money? No. Why wouldn't they? Everyone is going to take what they can get. It's human nature.

It's your fault for subsidizing stupidity.

So when you say Trump is taking money.... (assuming it's true), why wouldn't he? It's your fault for giving out the money.

End all those government grants. End the subsidies. I don't see right-wing people demanding more government handouts. I don't see Right-wingers demanding more hand outs.

You show me the conservative on this forum, promoting more government grants to business? Where's that thread?

When you complain about "so and so gets government handouts!"..... the only person you can blame is yourself and other left-wingers like you. Not us. We don't push that ideology. We want less government spending, and less taxes, and less handouts.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation means less people will need welfare.

no you are just renaming welfare to unemployment

nope; two different things that can both act as a social safety net. one is market friendly, the other is a safety net of "last resort".

taking money for choosing not to work is welfare.

no, it isn't. it is compensation for capitalism's laziness in full employment.

 

[danielpalos]

Really? Prove that.

Prove it? Okay.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/nyregion/donald-trump-tax-breaks-real-estate.html?_r=0

"
A Trump Empire Built on Inside Connections and $885 Million in Tax Breaks"


Donald Trump: Developer has thrived with government's generosity

"From his first high-profile project in New York City in the 1970s to his recent campaigns to reduce taxes on property he owns around the country, Trump has displayed a consistent pattern. He courted public officials, sought their backing for government tax breaks under extraordinarily beneficial terms and fought any resistance to deals he negotiated."

"Karen Burstein, a former auditor general of New York City, reviewed a major Trump project in the 1980s and concluded he had "cheated" the city out of nearly $2.9 million. Decades later, Burstein said she was still appalled at the way Trump operated."

"Referring to how he managed to win a 40-year tax abatement for rebuilding a crumbling hotel at Grand Central Station — a deal that in the first decade cost taxpayers $60 million"

"Trump also sought access to a federal program that would have guaranteed a $356-million low-interest loan in exchange for designating a percentage of the units for lower-income families."

"He eventually settled for a $34-million reduction, which local officials said cost millions in improperly reduced tax revenue."

"In Las Vegas, Trump's goal was to lower the taxable value of the recently constructed Trump International Hotel and Tower. His team, which included the former chairman of the county Board of Equalization — the agency that decides tax matters — won a reduction last year in the taxable value from $180 million to $8.6 million."

Donald Trump Has Mastered the Art of the Tax Break

"
The exemption, valued at $163.775 million in total on commercial property taxes, began in 2004 and ends in 2016."

should the poor have to care how much the rich make and how they make it? if not, then the rich should care about how much the poor make or how they make it. equality is a challenge, for the right wing.

getting paid for doing nothing is not making money it is taking money

circulating money is what creates a positive multiplier effect, not a work ethic from the Age of Iron.

If you want to circulate money the fucking earn it first
You spending the money that you take from other people does not do anything to the economy

why, it has already been earned and paid tax on. only the right wing, likes to make poor lifestyle choices.

 

[danielpalos]

let's say im not lets say I'm barely smart enough to push a broom or flip a burger? what should I do?

How is that anyone's problem but yours?

How is you bitching about your taxes anyone's problem but yours?

So I can stop paying taxes and fix my problem?

yes, either become really poor or really rich.

he aspires to be unemployed and paid 30K a year for jerking off

at least he won't be paying the taxes you do.

 

[Rustic]

No one with a strong work ethic wants to be paid for not working

I for one would pick up dog shit for 10 cents a pile before I went on welfare. You on the other hand would say you "deserve" 30K a year for doing nothing

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Really? Prove that.

Moreover, everyone will take something for nothing. If you are stupid enough to pay me to sit at home, I'll take your money. Who wouldn't?

As I've said many times, my problem isn't with people taking welfare. I don't sit here and say "I can't believe people are taking welfare and food stamps!".... I don't say that.

I say... "I can't believe we are stupid enough to give everyone food stamps and welfare".

People adapt to the incentives you give them. If you give something for nothing, they'll take something for nothing. It's YOUR fault for being that dumb. Not their fault for taking advantage of your incompetence.

Again, I pointed out that the Native Americans are the absolute most subsidized group in the US today. And they have the lowest income, and wealth in the entire country.

Why? Because they sit there, do nothing, and collect handouts.

The native American tribe not recognized by the government, which collects no handouts, lives an American standard of living.

Same was true in Japan with the Zombie Firms. These dead firms with zero chance of being profitable, but collecting government bailouts to keep them open. They had no reason to move on to profitable adventures, because they were being paid to do nothing. The result was stagnation for the entire country.

Was it the firms fault for taking the money? No. Why wouldn't they? Everyone is going to take what they can get. It's human nature.

It's your fault for subsidizing stupidity.

So when you say Trump is taking money.... (assuming it's true), why wouldn't he? It's your fault for giving out the money.

End all those government grants. End the subsidies. I don't see right-wing people demanding more government handouts. I don't see Right-wingers demanding more hand outs.

You show me the conservative on this forum, promoting more government grants to business? Where's that thread?

When you complain about "so and so gets government handouts!"..... the only person you can blame is yourself and other left-wingers like you. Not us. We don't push that ideology. We want less government spending, and less taxes, and less handouts.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation means less people will need welfare.

you need a valid rebuttal; unless you don't have one and cartoons are all you can come up with.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation means less people will need welfare.

Who pays for that?

 

[danielpalos]

Then again people like Trump will take something for nothing, how much has he taken for free? Something close to $1 billion.

Really? Prove that.

Moreover, everyone will take something for nothing. If you are stupid enough to pay me to sit at home, I'll take your money. Who wouldn't?

As I've said many times, my problem isn't with people taking welfare. I don't sit here and say "I can't believe people are taking welfare and food stamps!".... I don't say that.

I say... "I can't believe we are stupid enough to give everyone food stamps and welfare".

People adapt to the incentives you give them. If you give something for nothing, they'll take something for nothing. It's YOUR fault for being that dumb. Not their fault for taking advantage of your incompetence.

Again, I pointed out that the Native Americans are the absolute most subsidized group in the US today. And they have the lowest income, and wealth in the entire country.

Why? Because they sit there, do nothing, and collect handouts.

The native American tribe not recognized by the government, which collects no handouts, lives an American standard of living.

Same was true in Japan with the Zombie Firms. These dead firms with zero chance of being profitable, but collecting government bailouts to keep them open. They had no reason to move on to profitable adventures, because they were being paid to do nothing. The result was stagnation for the entire country.

Was it the firms fault for taking the money? No. Why wouldn't they? Everyone is going to take what they can get. It's human nature.

It's your fault for subsidizing stupidity.

So when you say Trump is taking money.... (assuming it's true), why wouldn't he? It's your fault for giving out the money.

End all those government grants. End the subsidies. I don't see right-wing people demanding more government handouts. I don't see Right-wingers demanding more hand outs.

You show me the conservative on this forum, promoting more government grants to business? Where's that thread?

When you complain about "so and so gets government handouts!"..... the only person you can blame is yourself and other left-wingers like you. Not us. We don't push that ideology. We want less government spending, and less taxes, and less handouts.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation means less people will need welfare.

you need a valid rebuttal; unless you don't have one and cartoons are all you can come up with.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation means less people will need welfare.

Who pays for that?

It is a State based program. It depends on the State. In some States, employers pay all of it; in others they pay some proportion.
It can be complicated.

It is why I am advocating a simple, general tax, instead of our current regime. Firms have the most vested interest in potential labor, and should pay the unemployment tax to fund unemployment compensation on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.

That simplification could lower our tax burden and reduce litigation costs for employers.

 

[Rustic]

Really? Prove that.

Moreover, everyone will take something for nothing. If you are stupid enough to pay me to sit at home, I'll take your money. Who wouldn't?

As I've said many times, my problem isn't with people taking welfare. I don't sit here and say "I can't believe people are taking welfare and food stamps!".... I don't say that.

I say... "I can't believe we are stupid enough to give everyone food stamps and welfare".

People adapt to the incentives you give them. If you give something for nothing, they'll take something for nothing. It's YOUR fault for being that dumb. Not their fault for taking advantage of your incompetence.

Again, I pointed out that the Native Americans are the absolute most subsidized group in the US today. And they have the lowest income, and wealth in the entire country.

Why? Because they sit there, do nothing, and collect handouts.

The native American tribe not recognized by the government, which collects no handouts, lives an American standard of living.

Same was true in Japan with the Zombie Firms. These dead firms with zero chance of being profitable, but collecting government bailouts to keep them open. They had no reason to move on to profitable adventures, because they were being paid to do nothing. The result was stagnation for the entire country.

Was it the firms fault for taking the money? No. Why wouldn't they? Everyone is going to take what they can get. It's human nature.

It's your fault for subsidizing stupidity.

So when you say Trump is taking money.... (assuming it's true), why wouldn't he? It's your fault for giving out the money.

End all those government grants. End the subsidies. I don't see right-wing people demanding more government handouts. I don't see Right-wingers demanding more hand outs.

You show me the conservative on this forum, promoting more government grants to business? Where's that thread?

When you complain about "so and so gets government handouts!"..... the only person you can blame is yourself and other left-wingers like you. Not us. We don't push that ideology. We want less government spending, and less taxes, and less handouts.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation means less people will need welfare.

you need a valid rebuttal; unless you don't have one and cartoons are all you can come up with.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation means less people will need welfare.

Who pays for that?

It is a State based program. It depends on the State. In some States, employers pay all of it; in others they pay some proportion.
It can be complicated.

It is why I am advocating a simple, general tax, instead of our current regime. Firms have the most vested interest in potential labor, and should pay the unemployment tax to fund unemployment compensation on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.

That simplification could lower our tax burden and reduce litigation costs for employers.

The fact remains, that most minimum wage type jobs are not even close to being worth $10 an hour let alone $14-15 an hour. Minimum-wage jobs are beginners jobs and should be paid as so, should never be considered a career.
The nanny state needs to die, for the real America to thrive... fact

 

[danielpalos]

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation means less people will need welfare.

you need a valid rebuttal; unless you don't have one and cartoons are all you can come up with.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation means less people will need welfare.

Who pays for that?

It is a State based program. It depends on the State. In some States, employers pay all of it; in others they pay some proportion.
It can be complicated.

It is why I am advocating a simple, general tax, instead of our current regime. Firms have the most vested interest in potential labor, and should pay the unemployment tax to fund unemployment compensation on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.

That simplification could lower our tax burden and reduce litigation costs for employers.

The fact remains, that most minimum wage type jobs are not even close to being worth $10 an hour let alone $14-15 an hour. Minimum-wage jobs are beginners jobs and should be paid as so, should never be considered a career.
The nanny state needs to die, for the real America to thrive... fact

Worth is relative. That point is moot and not relevant in our argument.

Congress can regulate Values, along with fixing Standards.

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures:

 

[Rustic]

you need a valid rebuttal; unless you don't have one and cartoons are all you can come up with.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation means less people will need welfare.

Who pays for that?

It is a State based program. It depends on the State. In some States, employers pay all of it; in others they pay some proportion.
It can be complicated.

It is why I am advocating a simple, general tax, instead of our current regime. Firms have the most vested interest in potential labor, and should pay the unemployment tax to fund unemployment compensation on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.

That simplification could lower our tax burden and reduce litigation costs for employers.

The fact remains, that most minimum wage type jobs are not even close to being worth $10 an hour let alone $14-15 an hour. Minimum-wage jobs are beginners jobs and should be paid as so, should never be considered a career.
The nanny state needs to die, for the real America to thrive... fact

Worth is relative. That point is moot and not relevant in our argument.

Congress can regulate Values, along with fixing Standards.

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures:

Worth only means something if there is a profit. Without profit there is no economic success... no country. Fact

 

[danielpalos]

you need a valid rebuttal; unless you don't have one and cartoons are all you can come up with.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation means less people will need welfare.

Who pays for that?

It is a State based program. It depends on the State. In some States, employers pay all of it; in others they pay some proportion.
It can be complicated.

It is why I am advocating a simple, general tax, instead of our current regime. Firms have the most vested interest in potential labor, and should pay the unemployment tax to fund unemployment compensation on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.

That simplification could lower our tax burden and reduce litigation costs for employers.

The fact remains, that most minimum wage type jobs are not even close to being worth $10 an hour let alone $14-15 an hour. Minimum-wage jobs are beginners jobs and should be paid as so, should never be considered a career.
The nanny state needs to die, for the real America to thrive... fact

Worth is relative. That point is moot and not relevant in our argument.

Congress can regulate Values, along with fixing Standards.

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures:

Worth only means something if there is a profit. Without profit there is no economic success... no country. Fact

Good capitalists like Henry Ford were able to invent an efficiency wage and realize gains from efficiency to cover costs. Bad capitalists, cannot. it really is that simple under Any form of Capitalism.

 

[Rustic]

Who pays for that?

It is a State based program. It depends on the State. In some States, employers pay all of it; in others they pay some proportion.
It can be complicated.

It is why I am advocating a simple, general tax, instead of our current regime. Firms have the most vested interest in potential labor, and should pay the unemployment tax to fund unemployment compensation on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.

That simplification could lower our tax burden and reduce litigation costs for employers.

The fact remains, that most minimum wage type jobs are not even close to being worth $10 an hour let alone $14-15 an hour. Minimum-wage jobs are beginners jobs and should be paid as so, should never be considered a career.
The nanny state needs to die, for the real America to thrive... fact

Worth is relative. That point is moot and not relevant in our argument.

Congress can regulate Values, along with fixing Standards.

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures:

Worth only means something if there is a profit. Without profit there is no economic success... no country. Fact

Good capitalists like Henry Ford were able to invent an efficiency wage and realize gains from efficiency to cover costs. Bad capitalists, cannot. it really is that simple under Any form of Capitalism.

Stocking shelves, flipping burgers, etc never constitutes anything other than a beginners wage 6-7 dollars max. No one should inspire to be a career burger flipper…

 

[danielpalos]

It is a State based program. It depends on the State. In some States, employers pay all of it; in others they pay some proportion.
It can be complicated.

It is why I am advocating a simple, general tax, instead of our current regime. Firms have the most vested interest in potential labor, and should pay the unemployment tax to fund unemployment compensation on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.

That simplification could lower our tax burden and reduce litigation costs for employers.

The fact remains, that most minimum wage type jobs are not even close to being worth $10 an hour let alone $14-15 an hour. Minimum-wage jobs are beginners jobs and should be paid as so, should never be considered a career.
The nanny state needs to die, for the real America to thrive... fact

Worth is relative. That point is moot and not relevant in our argument.

Congress can regulate Values, along with fixing Standards.

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures:

Worth only means something if there is a profit. Without profit there is no economic success... no country. Fact

Good capitalists like Henry Ford were able to invent an efficiency wage and realize gains from efficiency to cover costs. Bad capitalists, cannot. it really is that simple under Any form of Capitalism.

Stocking shelves, flipping burgers, etc never constitutes anything other than a beginners wage 6-7 dollars max. No one should inspire to be a career burger flipper…

doesn't matter what you want; social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour. capitalism works.