Modern conservatives sympathizing with The Confederacy... Is this a thing now?

[g5000]

Better plan: Prove it.

That's like asking for proof of gravity, but whatever floats your boat.

Here are the declarations of secession by five of the states (Georgia, Mississippi, South Carolina, Texas, and Virginia) with which even the dumbest of Confederate symps should be familiar: The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States

They refer to slavery 83 times.

I posted Alabama's above.

Here is Florida's declaration: Florida Declaration

They refer to slavery 14 times.

Upon assuming the governorship of Louisiana in 1860, Thomas Overton Moore said in his inaugural address:

So bitter is this hostility felt toward the slavery which these fifteen States regard as a great social and political blessing, that it exhibits itself in legislation for the avowed purpose of destroying the rights of slaveholders guaranteed by the Constitution, and protected by acts of Congress. Popular addresses, Legislative resolutions, Executive communications, the press and the pulpit, all inculcate hatred against us and war upon the institution of slavery — an institution interwoven with the very elements of our existence. The fanaticism engendered in the popular mind by the doctrines taught and the enmity excited, manifested itself very recently by an irruption of armed men in the State of p689Virginia, whose object was to excite insurrection, and whose means were treason and murder. The abrupt end to which the conspiracy was brought, and the sharp, just, and quick punishment of the conspirators, proved that the South had not overestimated the stability of her institutions. But the apologies and eulogiums which developed at the North a widespread sympathy with felons, have deepened the distrust in the permanency of our Federal Government, and awakened sentiments favorable to a separation of the States.

 

[g5000]

The business of the convention was to decide whether or not to leave the Union.

Governor Rector thought the single issue was slavery—“They believe slavery is sin, and we do not, and there lies the trouble”—and the records of the first session reflect this, with each of the listed “causes of complaint on the part of the people of the southern states” being concerned with the preservation of slavery.

Secession Convention - Encyclopedia of Arkansas

 

[Cecilie1200]

So the belief that States can secede from the union now means we believe in slavery.

Um...OK?

Have you ever been tested to see if you have an IQ?

You dont have a right to secede first ....Second If you are a supporter of confederates you support slavery since that was what they were about....I know you like to believe they were for states rights but the only right they cared about was the one that wrongly said they could own people.

kaz: I don't support the confederacy, I support the right of secession.

Thanatos: Duh, dar, drool, oh, that means you support slavery since you support the confederacy. Drool, drool

Thanks for showing all stupid people are not liberals. Sometimes it seems that way, but I think it's important to remember you're well represented on the right too

Maybe you should read what I wrote dumbass. There is no right to secede. None. It is not in the constitution or bill of rights.....These little truth seem to stump you.

Yes, you've posted that about 5 times already. It was just as dumb and just as wrong the last time you posted it as the first time.

You accuse me of having proved nothing, so when did you prove there is no right to secede?

The fact that is isnt in the constitution and bill of right idiot?

What about the Tenth Amendment? The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. I know that rings a bell. You and I both know the Constitution and Bill of Rights are about setting boundaries and limits on the power of the federal government, not about granting rights to the states and people.

 

[g5000]

Only a willfully blind monkey needs to have it proven to them the Civil War was about slavery.

A profoundly retarded willfully blind monkey.

But, I have proven it to them now since it appears we have a few profoundly retarded willfully blind monkeys around here.

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world."

 

[rightwinger]

Maybe because Cuba was not part of the United States and Cuba didn't attack us

South Carolina was not part of the United States after it seceded. It also didn't attack the United States. It kicked some trespassers out of its territory.

You keep regurgitating the same old horseshit. You're obviously incapable of rational thought.

Of course they were
The traitors also attacked their own country

Got what they deserved

Hey kiddo, the Union was saved, but far more yankees were killed during the war than Confederates, and after the war supposedly ended many more yankees , black and white were killed than Confederates. I'm not grieving for the Confederate States Of America, that's settled, but what it proved was that the United States Of America is an Empire, held together by force, same as the Soviet Union, and the present day Russian Confederacy.

The difference is that the people are free to come and go as they please......the states are not

Begging the question

The question being....We are the FUCKING United States

 

[mikegriffith1]

That's a very broad, simplistic tar brush.

I think it's clear that the founders did not intend the Union to be held together by force. In fact, several of the founders, including James Madison, expressly rejected that idea.

So I think the South had the right to secede, but I don't feel they had sufficient cause to secede.

I pretty much take the North's side up to the point that Lincoln decided to launch an invasion in response to the bloodless attack on Fort Sumter, which he provoked. After the point when federal forces began to invade the South, I pretty much take the South's side.

If God had appointed me king for 4 years just before the war started, I would have imposed on the slave-holding states the same kind of gradual emancipation that Northern states like Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, and Connecticut implemented. And I would have stopped the Republican drive to use the federal government to enrich the North at the expense of the South and the West.

As for Booth being a hero for killing Lincoln, I don't think Booth was a hero. In fact, I think Booth may have been a double-agent working for the Radical Republicans. The Radicals hated Lincoln with a passion and after the assassination they openly expressed gratitude that he was dead. Quite a few people back then, including none other than Andrew Johnson, suspected that the Radicals were behind the assassination. Otto Eisenschiml's book Why Was Lincoln Murdered? is the classic work on the evidence that the Radicals were behind Lincoln's death.

 

[g5000]

Some of the tards supporting the Confederacy's right to secede over slavery are the very same tards who in other topics like to bring up that it was Democrats who supported slavery!

Same tards, different party. Those olden slavery-loving, states rights Democrats are the political ancestors of the modern day right wing Republican states rights Confederacy lovers.

It is amazing their brains don't explode from trying to compartmentalize such intellectual self-abuse.

 

[bripat9643]

His claim is wrong anyway. Not all states stated slavery as the reason for secession. I believe only four of them did.

Of the eleven states of the CSA, five issued declarations of secession. In those five declarations are more than 80 references to slavery. They all declared slavery as the central reason for secession.

Mississippi pretty much summed it up for all of them:

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.

Great. Then you concede that only a minority declared slavery to be the reason for secession.

 

[g5000]

His claim is wrong anyway. Not all states stated slavery as the reason for secession. I believe only four of them did.

Of the eleven states of the CSA, five issued declarations of secession. In those five declarations are more than 80 references to slavery. They all declared slavery as the central reason for secession.

Mississippi pretty much summed it up for all of them:

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.

Great. Then you concede that only a minority declared slavery to be the reason for secession.

You spoke too soon, tard. I have proven all of them seceded over slavery since that post.

Seriously. Just how profoundly retarded and willfully blind are you, monkey? You are actually clueless that they seceded over slavery? Really? This is news to you?

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world."

 

[rightwinger]

His claim is wrong anyway. Not all states stated slavery as the reason for secession. I believe only four of them did.

Of the eleven states of the CSA, five issued declarations of secession. In those five declarations are more than 80 references to slavery. They all declared slavery as the central reason for secession.

Mississippi pretty much summed it up for all of them:

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.

The Confederate Constitution is nearly identical to ours with one exception

They guaranteed the institution of slavery

 

[mikegriffith1]

Only a willfully blind monkey needs to have it proven to them the Civil War was about slavery.

A profoundly retarded willfully blind monkey.

But, I have proven it to them now since it appears we have a few profoundly retarded willfully blind monkeys around here.

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world."

Only a blind monkey would swallow the claim that the Civil War was fought over slavery. I know that's a sacred part of liberal brainwashing, but it's just fiction. When Lincoln sent that armed federal convoy to Fort Sumter, there were more slave states in the Union than there were in the Confederacy, and the four Upper South states had recently voted against leaving the Union over slavery. Free your mind.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The slave rapers are complaing about how they were treated?

A nation that was formed for the sole purpose of maintaining four million people in bondage is complaining about how they are treated?

Hypocrites

What you call hypocrisy, I call good, ol' fashioned, southern conservative values.

The south will rise again, ya'll..

You mean the same values as your hero Abe Lincoln?

Abe's primary philosophy during the civil war was the preservation of the union.

You mean he was an was an imperialist who wanted to subjugate the Southern states and force them to pay crushing tariffs so his Northern industrialist cronies could siphon off their wealth.

I mean exactly what I said. Lincoln's priority was preserving the union. The South's priority was preserving slavery, one of the most vile institutions in the history of the world. And certainly the most vile in our nation's history.

Which the South based the overwhelming majority of the economy on.

Amazing how irrelevant every single one of your posts have been to the actual topic. You have to be doing it on purpose, because no one could be that far off-target accidentally.

 

[FA_Q2]

His claim is wrong anyway. Not all states stated slavery as the reason for secession. I believe only four of them did.

Of the eleven states of the CSA, five issued declarations of secession. In those five declarations are more than 80 references to slavery. They all declared slavery as the central reason for secession.

Mississippi pretty much summed it up for all of them:

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.

Great. Then you concede that only a minority declared slavery to be the reason for secession.

That is somewhat irrelevant if the remaining states didn't bother to cite a reason at all.

It seems to me that they felt the 5 that did had said all that needed to be said....

 

[Cecilie1200]

You mean he was an was an imperialist who wanted to subjugate the Southern states and force them to pay crushing tariffs so his Northern industrialist cronies could siphon off their wealth.

Their wealth was accumulated through unconstitutional means. Slavery was, is, and always will be unconstitutional (the fact that America didn't always consider this truth is beside the point). If the government tells you what you're doing is unconstitutional, you either follow the rules or you rebel and get what's coming to you. The south chose option 2.

How do you figure slavery was Unconstitutional prior to the passage of the 13th Amendment? Immoral, sure. Unconstitutional? Nope. Nor was the government in any way trying to tell the South that it was.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Rather than reinvent the wheel:

The Tariff and Secession

Southern Side of the Civil War

Proof that the Union was Supposed to be Voluntary

 

[Syriusly]

If Lincoln had not been assassinated we would not have African Americans today. It was his intention to round them up and return all of them to Africa. As it was he removed hundreds.

Abraham Lincoln wanted to deport slaves to new colonies - Telegraph

That was bullshit

It was never a practical option

That is not the point silly senior dude.

The point is, which sadly I must spell it out for you due to you lack of...something, Lincoln considered deporting all blacks and hoped to get it accomplished in his second term. It was not practical, but it should tell you something about your beloved Dishonest Abe, but you being you, I have no hope.

Actually, the country of Liberia was formed for free slaves

Lincoln understood what bunch of racist assholes existed in the south and doubted if blacks could ever be "free" there. As it is, Lincoln was right and it took force 100 years later to finally give blacks freedom in the south

Just to be fare- Lincoln and pretty much every Republican and Democrat from that era were racists by our standards. Very, very few considered Negroes to be equal and a lot of staunch abolitionists also truly believed that sending them back to the continent that their great grandfather 10 generations removed came from was to be desired.

And also just to be fair- Lincoln never considered deporting any blacks- he believed if the option was offered that they would be eager to go- he was surprised when very few were interested.

 

[g5000]

The Confederate Constitution is nearly identical to ours with one exception

They guaranteed the institution of slavery

Good point!

3) Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several States, which may be included within this Confederacy, according to their respective numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three-fifths of all slaves.

Sec. 2. (I) The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired.

(3) No slave or other person held to service or labor in any State or Territory of the Confederate States, under the laws thereof, escaping or lawfully carried into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor; but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such slave belongs,. or to whom such service or labor may be due.

(3) The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several Sates; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form States to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected be Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States.

Sec. 9. (I) The importation of negroes of the African race from any foreign country other than the slaveholding States or Territories of the United States of America, is hereby forbidden; and Congress is required to pass such laws as shall effectually prevent the same.

(2) Congress shall also have power to prohibit the introduction of slaves from any State not a member of, or Territory not belonging to, this Confederacy.

4) No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.

Avalon Project - Constitution of the Confederate States March 11 1861

 

[bripat9643]

So then why didn't the federal government invade Cuba? They has slavery as well. In fact, there are countries that have slavery right now. Why isn't out government carpet bombing them?

You're argument falls to pieces the minute you start applying it to other countries.

Bottom line: you're an idiot.

Maybe because Cuba was not part of the United States and Cuba didn't attack us

South Carolina was not part of the United States after it seceded. It also didn't attack the United States. It kicked some trespassers out of its territory.

You keep regurgitating the same old horseshit. You're obviously incapable of rational thought.

Of course they were
The traitors also attacked their own country

Got what they deserved

Hey kiddo, the Union was saved, but far more yankees were killed during the war than Confederates, and after the war supposedly ended many more yankees , black and white were killed than Confederates. I'm not grieving for the Confederate States Of America, that's settled, but what it proved was that the United States Of America is an Empire, held together by force, same as the Soviet Union, and the present day Russian Confederacy.

Name me one country that is not held together by force? Name me one country that has EVER won an armed conflict that can't be characterized as an "empire"?

1. The American Revolution
2. Battle of the Teutoburg Forest - The Germans defeated the Roman General Varus on the German side of the Rhine river.
   
3. Israel's numerous victories over its Arab enemies.
4. The Greek victories over the Persians at Thermopolae, Salamis and elsewhere.
5. The Visigoths sack Rome.
6. The Mujahadeem in Afghanistan defeats the Soviet Union.

I could go on and one, but that's enough to show that it does occur. However, the other way around happens much more often.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So the belief that States can secede from the union now means we believe in slavery.

Um...OK?

Have you ever been tested to see if you have an IQ?

You dont have a right to secede first ....Second If you are a supporter of confederates you support slavery since that was what they were about....I know you like to believe they were for states rights but the only right they cared about was the one that wrongly said they could own people.

kaz: I don't support the confederacy, I support the right of secession.

Thanatos: Duh, dar, drool, oh, that means you support slavery since you support the confederacy. Drool, drool

Thanks for showing all stupid people are not liberals. Sometimes it seems that way, but I think it's important to remember you're well represented on the right too

Maybe you should read what I wrote dumbass. There is no right to secede. None. It is not in the constitution or bill of rights.....These little truth seem to stump you.

Wrong, there is nothing in the Constitution that would prevent succession, the 10th Amendment says if the power is not granted to the federal government by the Constitution it doesn't exist, so any power regarding succession is reserved to the States. So your perceived truth is a lie.

The 10th amendment is not the right to secede. Otherwise it wouldn't say what ever power the Fed doesn't have . Why is it libertarians always promote confederates who were nothing about liberty?

Hon, the Tenth Amendment states that any power not specifically granted to the federal government remains the purview of the states or the people. Show me where the power to force states to remain in the Union against their will was ever specifically granted to the federal government.

 

[bripat9643]

..It should also be noted that the overwhelming majority of southerners that fought the Civil War did NOT own slaves...

This isn't surprising. Southerners have a habit of supporting causes that run against their individual interests.

Look at all the below poverty-line southerners without health and dental insurance that go to the polls to vote conservative Republican year after year.

Some things never change.

Southerners......

Known best for segregation, Jim Crowe, the KKK, and now, Republicans, Tea Partiers, and evangelicals

Your hero Lincoln is known for rape, pillage, burning entire cities to the ground, and slaughtering 850,000 people