Modern conservatives sympathizing with The Confederacy... Is this a thing now?

[-S-]

They've sympathized with the confederacy for a long time. Go down south and count how many confederate flags you see.

I have lived in the South a long time and I have hardly seen any Confederate flags ever. Liberal New England liberal racists just see what you want to see, don't you?

BTW, fiscal conservatives fled the Democratic party. The racists are still solidly with you, Adolph. Or should I say Grand Wizard? Whichever you prefer

I live in Virginia. A little down the road there's a gigantic confederate flag waving over I-95 365 days of the year. Go further south and the flags are everywhere. If you didn't see the confederate flag it's because you got used to it and didn't notice it anymore.

And let me correct you... SOCIAL conservatives left the Democrat party. They're your problem now.

Really? Name one.

They simply cannot justify slavery though for it is morally, ethically, and legally wrong and always has been.

So the belief that States can secede from the union now means we believe in slavery.

Um...OK?

Have you ever been tested to see if you have an IQ?

Have you read the secession papers? Every last one of them stated slavery as the reason for secession.

The fuck does that have to do with people in 2015 saying they had a legal right to secede if they wanted to?

His claim is wrong anyway. Not all states stated slavery as the reason for secession. I believe only four of them did.

You're most likely correct. Certainly, I would trust you before I would him. Looking it up, however, would require investing more interest in his bullshit than I'm inclined to.

Yeah, educating one's self on the subject one insists on taking part in is a complete waste of everyone's time.



Were you born an incompetent conversationalist, or is this the result of years of practice?

 

[g5000]

His claim is wrong anyway. Not all states stated slavery as the reason for secession. I believe only four of them did.

Of the eleven states of the CSA, five issued declarations of secession. In those five declarations are more than 80 references to slavery. They all declared slavery as the central reason for secession.

Mississippi pretty much summed it up for all of them:

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

They simply cannot justify slavery though for it is morally, ethically, and legally wrong and always has been.

History is written by the victors.

Fact: If the North won the Civil War (and they did), history would read: We defeated the slave owners! Which is funny since the Civil War did not start over slavery and was only injected into the propaganda more than a year later. It should also be noted that the overwhelming majority of southerners that fought the Civil War did NOT own slaves.

Fact: If the South won the Civil War (but they did not): We exited a Federal Compact between Several States, because the Common Agent (federal/general government) assumed and exercised undelegated powers, a clear violation of the 10th Amendment that all of the original 13 States consented to, and all additional States acquiesced to by joining the Union.


The result of the Civil War: The Federal Government converted the Several States from sovereign entities into administrative units for a single "indivisible" state.

Saying the "United States" is "indivisible" is a contradiction, since "united' implies consent of each state, indivisible means they cannot leave. The "United States" today is a single state.

"But but...if secession was allowed individual states might leave if they felt their interests were threatened by the national interest."

"Yes numbskull, that's the entire point, there can be no bigger check of the federal government than the LEGAL threat of secession."

The threat of secession ensures that the Federal Government will only exercise those powers the Several States delegated to it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Rights are a creation of human beings, as are governments.

Then you disagree with the poster who said "They simply cannot justify slavery though for it is morally, ethically, and legally wrong and always has been?"

Rights are a creation of human beings, as are governments.

Then you disagree with the poster who said "They simply cannot justify slavery though for it is morally, ethically, and legally wrong and always has been?"

Liberal logic. Lol

A perpetual Union was what was established. It is therefore clear that leaving the Union was not part of the deal

Where does the Constitution say either of those?

So can a man force a woman to have sex with him because she once married him even though she wants a divorce? I know you wont' get this point, it's butt obvious, but you are a liberal and liberals never get points. The will of the rest of the States continues to be imposed on the people of a State without consent of the governed.

Your reply will not show you don't agree with what I just said, it will show you didn't grasp what I just said

After reading through all of this, it seems that the people most likely to defend the Confederacy are:

*Conservative
*Southern

I get that no one actually wants to support slavery, they just want to support the act of rebellion, because they feel that it's an American principle or something.

I guess myself, and the other moderates/liberals/anti-Confederate conservatives, don't look at it the same way.


I am VERY pro-equality, regardless of what's in or isn't in the Constitution. I don't look at the Confederacy as a rag tag group of rebels fighting for American values, I see a group of people that couldn't socially progress at the same rate as the other regions in the nation, and paid the price for their ignorance. I don't see anything to celebrate. If I want to celebrate American rebellion, I'll read about the Revolutionary War

So slaughtering 850,000 people is a proper punishment for not progressing sufficiently rapidly to satisfy you?

That's true idiocy right there.

If you support the American Revolution, then you should support the Confederacy. They are based on the same principles - exactly.

Now, Bri, you know very well that leftists only support the rights of others when they personally approve of the manner in which those rights are exercised. In other words, they only approve of rights for themselves and their like-minded butt monkeys.

Are you retarded? I'm genuinely curious.

Do you support rights you don't approve of?

Name them.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So the belief that States can secede from the union now means we believe in slavery.

Um...OK?

Have you ever been tested to see if you have an IQ?

Have you read the secession papers? Every last one of them stated slavery as the reason for secession.

The fuck does that have to do with people in 2015 saying they had a legal right to secede if they wanted to?

His claim is wrong anyway. Not all states stated slavery as the reason for secession. I believe only four of them did.

You're most likely correct. Certainly, I would trust you before I would him. Looking it up, however, would require investing more interest in his bullshit than I'm inclined to.

Every last one of them gave slavery as the reason you jackasses. Look. It. Up.

Better plan: Prove it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I've seen at least three conservatives on this site talk about how Lincoln and the Union were wrong, and that the Confederacy should have been allowed to secede the way they did, and were on the right side of history..

Is this a popular stance among conservatives of today? Are they really pro-Confederacy when they look back on the Civil War? Or are there just a couple crazies here and there?

(This thread may also help the 'Gay Marriage' thread from being further derailed with Civil War arguments. Figured it was worth a shot haha)

There are many RWnuts around here who both admire and defend the CSA while at the same time they blame Democrats for slavery and segregation.

You figure them out...

Strawman

Do you deny it?

 

[g5000]

Georgia, Mississippi, South Carolina, Texas, and Virginia issued the aforementioned declarations of secession in which they plainly stated secession was about slavery.

Alabama issued an Ordinance of Secession with the following statement included in it:

And as it is the desire and purpose of the people of Alabama to meet the slaveholding States of the South, who may approve such purpose, in order to frame a provisional as well as permanent Government upon the principles of the Constitution of the United States

 

[NYcarbineer]

Every state has representatives in the federal government.

And what conclusion do you draw from that, Grasshopper?

That your claim that other states impose their will on a state without the consent of the governed, that claim is false.

You are confusing political phrases. Representation doesn't mean you have the consent of the governed. So if we invade Canada and give them two Senators and a few representatives, we can tell them STFU, they are represented?

If you are mugged by three guys and they let you vote with them whether or not to take your wallet, you consented to the robbery?

The depth of your failure to follow conversations never ceases to amaze me

All you're saying is that consent of the governed has to be unanimous or it isn't consent.

That's idiotic.

Um..no, how do you possibly...



I can't do anything with you until you learn to read

Ah, so now you've flip flopped and concede that yes the federal government could pass laws that individual states might by consensus disagree with,

buth those laws would STILL represent the consent of the governed?

lol, you're arguing with yourself.

 

[g5000]

I've seen at least three conservatives on this site talk about how Lincoln and the Union were wrong, and that the Confederacy should have been allowed to secede the way they did, and were on the right side of history..

Is this a popular stance among conservatives of today? Are they really pro-Confederacy when they look back on the Civil War? Or are there just a couple crazies here and there?

(This thread may also help the 'Gay Marriage' thread from being further derailed with Civil War arguments. Figured it was worth a shot haha)

There are many RWnuts around here who both admire and defend the CSA while at the same time they blame Democrats for slavery and segregation.

You figure them out...

Strawman

Nope. It's a fact. This topic started out with dipshits trying to pin modern day confederacy worshiping on the Democrats.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Georgia, Mississippi, South Carolina, Texas, and Virginia issued the aforementioned declarations of secession in which they plainly stated secession was about slavery.

Alabama issued an Ordinance of Secession with the following statement included in it:

And as it is the desire and purpose of the people of Alabama to meet the slaveholding States of the South, who may approve such purpose, in order to frame a provisional as well as permanent Government upon the principles of the Constitution of the United States

Of course it was over slavery. This is indisputable.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Have you read the secession papers? Every last one of them stated slavery as the reason for secession.

The fuck does that have to do with people in 2015 saying they had a legal right to secede if they wanted to?

His claim is wrong anyway. Not all states stated slavery as the reason for secession. I believe only four of them did.

You're most likely correct. Certainly, I would trust you before I would him. Looking it up, however, would require investing more interest in his bullshit than I'm inclined to.

Every last one of them gave slavery as the reason you jackasses. Look. It. Up.

Better plan: Prove it.

It's proven by the statements of secession issued by the states that seceded.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I guess then the Southern states who opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 did so for reasons other than race?

 

[g5000]

Of course it was over slavery. This is indisputable.

There are a lot of tards who do dispute it, though.

 

[Cecilie1200]

A perpetual Union was what was extended when 'a more perfect Union' was mentioned in the Constitution. Everyone at the time knew that. For those who insist on 'original intent' especially, this is clear.

Rights are what one has the power to use. The states could have chosen to 'leave' and then see if that succeeded. Later, some did, and didn't succeed.

What is a 'right' that cannot be used? It is just a word. Perpetual is also a word. It is the word chosen by the founders at the time. Any person who understands linguistics knows that words are human creations and totally relative to what humans wish.

Still waiting for you to prove that anyone EVER said or agreed that the Union was irrevocable. As the resident board grammar Jedi, I can tell you that "perfect" and "perpetual" aren't even remotely similar in meaning.

So basically, rights only exist if you manage to get away with it? I have a right to rob a bank if I don't get caught?

 

[-S-]

..It should also be noted that the overwhelming majority of southerners that fought the Civil War did NOT own slaves...

This isn't surprising. Southerners have a habit of supporting causes that run against their individual interests.

Look at all the below poverty-line southerners without health and dental insurance that go to the polls to vote conservative Republican year after year.

Some things never change.

 

[toxicmedia]

But they didn't deserve to be left alone. Like a dog that craps in the bedroom and gets its nose rubbed in it, the south was treating humans wrong and needed to be trained to act accordingly.

So then why didn't the federal government invade Cuba? They has slavery as well. In fact, there are countries that have slavery right now. Why isn't out government carpet bombing them?

You're argument falls to pieces the minute you start applying it to other countries.

Bottom line: you're an idiot.

Maybe because Cuba was not part of the United States and Cuba didn't attack us

South Carolina was not part of the United States after it seceded. It also didn't attack the United States. It kicked some trespassers out of its territory.

You keep regurgitating the same old horseshit. You're obviously incapable of rational thought.

Of course they were
The traitors also attacked their own country

Got what they deserved

Hey kiddo, the Union was saved, but far more yankees were killed during the war than Confederates, and after the war supposedly ended many more yankees , black and white were killed than Confederates. I'm not grieving for the Confederate States Of America, that's settled, but what it proved was that the United States Of America is an Empire, held together by force, same as the Soviet Union, and the present day Russian Confederacy.

Name me one country that is not held together by force? Name me one country that has EVER won an armed conflict that can't be characterized as an "empire"?

 

[Cecilie1200]

They simply cannot justify slavery though for it is morally, ethically, and legally wrong and always has been.

So the belief that States can secede from the union now means we believe in slavery.

Um...OK?

Have you ever been tested to see if you have an IQ?

You dont have a right to secede first ....Second If you are a supporter of confederates you support slavery since that was what they were about....I know you like to believe they were for states rights but the only right they cared about was the one that wrongly said they could own people.

Sorry, my friend, but I can say, "The South had the right to secede" without it in any way meaning "Slavery, YAY!"

 

[toxicmedia]

..It should also be noted that the overwhelming majority of southerners that fought the Civil War did NOT own slaves...

This isn't surprising. Southerners have a habit of supporting causes that run against their individual interests.

Look at all the below poverty-line southerners without health and dental insurance that go to the polls to vote conservative Republican year after year.

Some things never change.

Southerners......

Known best for segregation, Jim Crowe, the KKK, and now, Republicans, Tea Partiers, and evangelicals

 

[-S-]

They simply cannot justify slavery though for it is morally, ethically, and legally wrong and always has been.

So the belief that States can secede from the union now means we believe in slavery.

Um...OK?

Have you ever been tested to see if you have an IQ?

You dont have a right to secede first ....Second If you are a supporter of confederates you support slavery since that was what they were about....I know you like to believe they were for states rights but the only right they cared about was the one that wrongly said they could own people.

Sorry, my friend, but I can say, "The South had the right to secede" without it in any way meaning "Slavery, YAY!"

So you only believe the south had the right to secede? You don't support the Confederacy's cause over the Union's cause?

Because the Confederacy's cause was based in large part on slavery. I'm gonna assume you support the Union over the Confederacy.. unless you actually don't have a problem with slavery..


The two are forever intertwined.

 

[-S-]

Southerners......

Known best for segregation, Jim Crowe, the KKK, and now, Republicans, Tea Partiers, and evangelicals

That list can just be called 'Social Conservatism' for short