Morality of Wealth Redistribution

[Mr.Nick]

While I agree in a flat tax for everybody-the right isn't exactly for that either. They like to tax oil companies at a much lower rate for capital investments. Neither the left or the right (at least in congress), is truly interested in a flat tax across the board.

I believe in a consumption tax but a straight up flat tax doesn't make any fucking sense.

I like both notions but both would have to be tweaked to be realistic.

For example: you cant charge 20% on manufacturing components...

I've always entertained and in agree with the idea but it needs to be tweaked.

Just out of curiousity, what is your argument against flat tax?

The taxes on manufacturing components...

You want to pay 300.00 for a DVD player made in the US?

 

[Wiseacre]

I thought a flat tax was basically an income tax, with no deductions, loopholes, exemptions, or tax breaks.

 

[Gadawg73]

I believe in a consumption tax but a straight up flat tax doesn't make any fucking sense.

I like both notions but both would have to be tweaked to be realistic.

For example: you cant charge 20% on manufacturing components...

I've always entertained and in agree with the idea but it needs to be tweaked.

Just out of curiousity, what is your argument against flat tax?

The taxes on manufacturing components...

You want to pay 300.00 for a DVD player made in the US?

Manufacturers of DVD players make $1 an hour.
It is US WAGES AND BENEFITS that push the manufacturing of a simple product like a DVD player to 3rd world countries.
Taxes are high here but they have nothing to do with DVD players or most manufacturing being taken from thIS country compared to wages and BENEFITS.

 

[Richard-H]

Has it every occured to any conservatives that money does not grow on trees?

That there should be a concept of 'reasonable profit'?

That all profits above 'reasonable profit' mean that somewhere somebody is being ripped off?

If I invest a dollar and make a million in return, doesn't it seem like something is wrong? Doesn't it stand that somewhere somebody would be being ripped off?

Investment does not create wealth. Investment controls resources. Hard work creates wealth and those that create the wealth deserve a fair share of that wealth.

Investment & ownership deserve some reasonable profit, but not undue profit.

The real problem is that instead of government ensuring that workers get a fair share of the returns, which would incentivize workers, government taxes and redistributes to those that often times do not deserve it.

Perhaps government monitoring & regulation of salaries, wages or profit sharing would be better than redistribution thru taxation.

 

[lizzie]

What's your opinion on the morality of taking money from those who earned it and giving it to people who haven't? Not talking about people who cannot earn their own money but rather those who choose not to. And can you recommend any books or writings on the subject?

There is no morality in theft whether someone goes into their neighbor's home and steals from them, or they have the government do it for them. Theft is theft.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Just out of curiousity, what is your argument against flat tax?

The taxes on manufacturing components...

You want to pay 300.00 for a DVD player made in the US?

Manufacturers of DVD players make $1 an hour.
It is US WAGES AND BENEFITS that push the manufacturing of a simple product like a DVD player to 3rd world countries.
Taxes are high here but they have nothing to do with DVD players or most manufacturing being taken from thIS country compared to wages and BENEFITS.

I said in the US... Union labor costs a hell of a lot more than 1 dollar..

Tariff that shit from China now an you will see some economic problems if we cant work things out here..

 

[Mr.Nick]

Just out of curiousity, what is your argument against flat tax?

The taxes on manufacturing components...

You want to pay 300.00 for a DVD player made in the US?

Manufacturers of DVD players make $1 an hour.
It is US WAGES AND BENEFITS that push the manufacturing of a simple product like a DVD player to 3rd world countries.
Taxes are high here but they have nothing to do with DVD players or most manufacturing being taken from thIS country compared to wages and BENEFITS.

At the same time - what we view as a "1 dollar" is actually 10 to workers in other countries.

Hell man you can eat a full meal at the best restaurant in Japan for 5 bucks in many nations money (converted to us)..

50 American dollars is a fortune to some...

 

[Gadawg73]

Has it every occured to any conservatives that money does not grow on trees?

That there should be a concept of 'reasonable profit'?

That all profits above 'reasonable profit' mean that somewhere somebody is being ripped off?

If I invest a dollar and make a million in return, doesn't it seem like something is wrong? Doesn't it stand that somewhere somebody would be being ripped off?

Investment does not create wealth. Investment controls resources. Hard work creates wealth and those that create the wealth deserve a fair share of that wealth.

Investment & ownership deserve some reasonable profit, but not undue profit.

The real problem is that instead of government ensuring that workers get a fair share of the returns, which would incentivize workers, government taxes and redistributes to those that often times do not deserve it.

Perhaps government monitoring & regulation of salaries, wages or profit sharing would be better than redistribution thru taxation.

Who determines what a "reasonable profit" is?
You or the person that has worked 70 hour weeks for decades, put up their entire life savings to start the business, drove old cars to survive for those decades and made sacrifices in time with their family?
You, the government OR ME, THE PERSON THAT EARNED IT?
Fuck the government and anyone that demands that I receive less of what I have earned.
What is "undue profit"? As an owner of 3 businesses that word does not exist.
Ever heard of a business LOSING $$$?
How about undue losses law? Where YOU have to take $$$ out of YOUR pocket and give it to me because of undue LOSSES. Perhaps government should monitor your life to make sure you do not make too much $$$, have too many things, make sure the car you drive is "reasonable", make sure the big screen you buy is "reasonable", make sure the house yoy buy is "reasonable", and make sure you live a "reasonable" life.
I bet your computer is not reasonable. You have too much.

 

[Gadawg73]

The taxes on manufacturing components...

You want to pay 300.00 for a DVD player made in the US?

Manufacturers of DVD players make $1 an hour.
It is US WAGES AND BENEFITS that push the manufacturing of a simple product like a DVD player to 3rd world countries.
Taxes are high here but they have nothing to do with DVD players or most manufacturing being taken from thIS country compared to wages and BENEFITS.

I said in the US... Union labor costs a hell of a lot more than 1 dollar..

Tariff that shit from China now an you will see some economic problems if we cant work things out here..

China is the largest growing market for goods in the world.
How do we sell OUR PRODUCTS there is we tarrif here?
Guess what they do? The same thing and at this time that would hurt our economy 10 times greater than them.
Tarrifs are always bad.

 

[manifold]

It always cracks me up when self-professed libertarians advocate import tariffs, seemingly oblivious to the glaring, hypocritical contradiction that lies therein.

But whatcha gonna do?

 

[CountofTuscany]

What's your opinion on the morality of taking money from those who earned it and giving it to people who haven't? Not talking about people who cannot earn their own money but rather those who choose not to. And can you recommend any books or writings on the subject?

Seems to me basic self worth is at least in part a reflection on your independence. Or at least contributing something, your own labor or time to your family or community. This country does not like freeloaders, and while there is a certain amount of leeway in tough times like we're in now, at some point opinions change.

So are we morally right to redistribute somebody else's wealth or deny people support in an effort to incentivize them to be more productive members of society?

I think people should be taxed on what they earn. If you are rich, you pay more in taxes. But taxes should be used to keep the country running. Building the infrastructure, defense, Civil Services and support jobs. But what it should not be used for is to support a welfare class. This country wasn't founded with a welfare class. There is nothing in the constitution that defines a welfare class. In this case re distribution of wealth is wrong.

 

[DiamondDave]

Has it every occured to any conservatives that money does not grow on trees?

That there should be a concept of 'reasonable profit'?

That all profits above 'reasonable profit' mean that somewhere somebody is being ripped off?

If I invest a dollar and make a million in return, doesn't it seem like something is wrong? Doesn't it stand that somewhere somebody would be being ripped off?

Investment does not create wealth. Investment controls resources. Hard work creates wealth and those that create the wealth deserve a fair share of that wealth.

Investment & ownership deserve some reasonable profit, but not undue profit.

The real problem is that instead of government ensuring that workers get a fair share of the returns, which would incentivize workers, government taxes and redistributes to those that often times do not deserve it.

Perhaps government monitoring & regulation of salaries, wages or profit sharing would be better than redistribution thru taxation.

Investment is not hard work? Research is not hard work? Analyzing risk and future trends is not hard work?

Sorry asshole... cleaning port-a-potties is not the only hard work out there...

You don't deserve any SUBJECTIVE 'fair share'... you deserve what you can earn, negotiate for yourself, advance yourself to, etc... and the freedom it takes to do as you will, succeed or fail

Fucking collectivists

 

[CountofTuscany]

This country does not redistribute wealth by confiscating it from some and giving it to others. We have a legal tax structure detailing what you contribute to society.
The way we do redistribute wealth is by passing laws that make it easier for some groups to accumulate wealth than others

The biggest redistribution of wealth has happened since 1980 as the middle class has lost wealth to the rich

Oh it sure does. Yes there is a legal tax structure but where the line is crossed is the use of the taxes collected. Taxes should be used for services, maintenance of the infrastructure, defense and such. It was not meant to support a welfare class. It was never the intent of the founders to tax to support a welfare state. Its a concept that was only introduced in the last 80 years and it has even changed drastically in the last 80 years. It has gone from government sponsored work programs to government provided hand outs.

You are 100% wrong. It is redistribution of wealth through a tax system.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Has it every occured to any conservatives that money does not grow on trees?

That there should be a concept of 'reasonable profit'?

Thanks Vlad, we'll take that under advisement....

 

[Uncensored2008]

I said in the US... Union labor costs a hell of a lot more than 1 dollar..

Tariff that shit from China now an you will see some economic problems if we cant work things out here..

No you won't, because you completely misunderstand what it is that drives production off shore.

In costing, there are three basic elements. Material, Labor and Overhead.

For simplicity sake let's say that we have an overhead rate of 300%, so the basic cost breakdown is;

Material = 60%
Labor = 10%
Overhead = 30%

Say the total cost is $100, the labor cost is $10. So the proposition that offshoring to China could be based on labor is that the labor in China, PLUS all shipping costs are less than $10 for the part.

This is virtually NEVER the case. Only on something that was made from cheap materials and is labor intensive - the opposite of electronics, would this be viable economically.

So what IS it that drives manufacturing off-shore? Taxes, Regulation and punitive litigation. Manufacturing goes to the East to escape the EPA and the IRS, not to avoid the minimum wage.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Hell man you can eat a full meal at the best restaurant in Japan for 5 bucks in many nations money (converted to us)..

50 American dollars is a fortune to some...

Are you kidding me? Japan?

No dude, food is about 10 to 15 times more expensive in Japan. EVERYTHING is expensive in Japan. (At least Tokyo)

Japan is not China.

 

[DiamondDave]

Japan is about Hong Kong expensive... been to both places... thank god I was on the corporate credit card and not my own dime

 

[M14 Shooter]

Yes... and your -opinion- is that a progressive tax rate is moral.
An opinion, based on a fallacy, rather than fact, based on a sound argument.

Prove that it's a fallacy.

Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[American Legacy]

What's your opinion on the morality of taking money from those who earned it and giving it to people who haven't? Not talking about people who cannot earn their own money but rather those who choose not to. And can you recommend any books or writings on the subject?

Seems to me basic self worth is at least in part a reflection on your independence. Or at least contributing something, your own labor or time to your family or community. This country does not like freeloaders, and while there is a certain amount of leeway in tough times like we're in now, at some point opinions change.

So are we morally right to redistribute somebody else's wealth or deny people support in an effort to incentivize them to be more productive members of society?

Whatever the merits of a generous charity in society, those merits end when individuals do not have the autonomy to decide for themselves how much to give, when to give it, whom to give it to and when to stop giving. When someone else assumes that autonomy from you and reallocates your wealth at their discretion rather than yours, it is robbery plain and simple. It matters not how the money is spent, when it's taken without your consent, it is theft. Government has no money except that which it takes from others. Consent is implied by virtue of our having representative government that is popularly elected on a routine basis. If enough Americans disagree with how the money is spent (i.e. redistributed) then they are free to voice their opinion at the polls. The two great challenges to this are firstly, that most individual voters do not see (though they often feel) the impact of bad government spending policies because of the low visibility of most of the tax burden and secondly, because we have a record number of Americans who are net recipients of the government's largesse who can outvote those of us who produce that wealth in the first place. Such a system is unsupportable in the same way that our federal entitlement programs are unsupportable. At some point there are too many "takers" and not enough "givers" to keep the system propped up and that's when it collapses. At that point, however, I fear the "takers" will be so used to their "free" goodies, it will create mass social chaos and result in an authoritarian regime usurping power in this country. What a nightmare.

 

[bripat9643]

I said in the US... Union labor costs a hell of a lot more than 1 dollar..

Tariff that shit from China now an you will see some economic problems if we cant work things out here..

I'm told you claim to be a libertarian. Is that correct?