More Christians are conservative meanwhile Christ was liberal...

[Taz]

You can rationalize it all you want but if you don't think that Noah got 2 of EVERY animal on earth on his raft (and all the other kooky tales), then you're not a christian. You're a christian sympathizer, maybe.

lol.....atheists get dumber every year.......

Not an atheist. Wrong AGAIN!

you aren't bright enough to even know what you are......

You're not bright enough to think for yourself, you need everything spoon fed to you from the bible.

Says the person who can't think enough for himself to read the books he complains about and understand what they actually teach. And can't understand why someone might be persuaded intellectually to live the principles of a book he never read.

I've read the books, they are full of fairy tales that for the most part don't even make sense.

 

[RicO'Shea]

Ohjupin

Sent from my 0PCV1 using Tapatalk

 

[PostmodernProph]

.


" And you know that how? "


thanks, not the being in the same place - but that we will be somewhere ... alive.

.

Because there's no proof that we go to different places.

and you believe the fact there is no proof we go to different places is proof we go to the same place?......

We all go to the same place until proven otherwise. Go for it, prove it.

???.....how do you intend to prove we all go the the same place unless proven otherwise.....what if each of us goes to a distinctly unique place unless proven otherwise.......what if 12% of us go to Manitoba unless proven otherwise?.......what if some of us come back as Buddha and you come back as a cockroach unless proven otherwise......

You're speculating. Please provide proof to your theories. Actually, nobody knows where we go, but I see no reason to believe the bible. We are all born the same way, we all die the same way.

please provide proof that I need to provide proof for my theories.......there is no "default" position in which if I cannot prove different things happen it is given that the same things happen......sorry.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

lol.....atheists get dumber every year.......

Not an atheist. Wrong AGAIN!

you aren't bright enough to even know what you are......

You're not bright enough to think for yourself, you need everything spoon fed to you from the bible.

Says the person who can't think enough for himself to read the books he complains about and understand what they actually teach. And can't understand why someone might be persuaded intellectually to live the principles of a book he never read.

I've read the books, they are full of fairy tales that for the most part don't even make sense.

they make far more sense than your arguments......

 

[Taz]

Because there's no proof that we go to different places.

and you believe the fact there is no proof we go to different places is proof we go to the same place?......

We all go to the same place until proven otherwise. Go for it, prove it.

???.....how do you intend to prove we all go the the same place unless proven otherwise.....what if each of us goes to a distinctly unique place unless proven otherwise.......what if 12% of us go to Manitoba unless proven otherwise?.......what if some of us come back as Buddha and you come back as a cockroach unless proven otherwise......

You're speculating. Please provide proof to your theories. Actually, nobody knows where we go, but I see no reason to believe the bible. We are all born the same way, we all die the same way.

please provide proof that I need to provide proof for my theories.......there is no "default" position in which if I cannot prove different things happen it is given that the same things happen......sorry.....

Like I said, we are all born the same, and die the same too. It's like you're trying to argue that we get born from different places depending on whether we're a good soul or not. For someone who claims to have gone to law school. your arguments get thrown out of the court of common sense every fucking time.

 

[hadit]

.


" And you know that how? "


thanks, not the being in the same place - but that we will be somewhere ... alive.

.

Because there's no proof that we go to different places.

and you believe the fact there is no proof we go to different places is proof we go to the same place?......

We all go to the same place until proven otherwise. Go for it, prove it.

???.....how do you intend to prove we all go the the same place unless proven otherwise.....what if each of us goes to a distinctly unique place unless proven otherwise.......what if 12% of us go to Manitoba unless proven otherwise?.......what if some of us come back as Buddha and you come back as a cockroach unless proven otherwise......

You're speculating. Please provide proof to your theories. Actually, nobody knows where we go, but I see no reason to believe the bible. We are all born the same way, we all die the same way.

There are many things we all accept as truth without proof. Yet, apparently only God requires such a high standard of proof.

 

[Taz]

Because there's no proof that we go to different places.

and you believe the fact there is no proof we go to different places is proof we go to the same place?......

We all go to the same place until proven otherwise. Go for it, prove it.

???.....how do you intend to prove we all go the the same place unless proven otherwise.....what if each of us goes to a distinctly unique place unless proven otherwise.......what if 12% of us go to Manitoba unless proven otherwise?.......what if some of us come back as Buddha and you come back as a cockroach unless proven otherwise......

You're speculating. Please provide proof to your theories. Actually, nobody knows where we go, but I see no reason to believe the bible. We are all born the same way, we all die the same way.

There are many things we all accept as truth without proof. Yet, apparently only God requires such a high standard of proof.

Like what? I need proof for everything.

 

[PK1]

---
1) Paul wrote he was a Pharisee, a group of Jews who represented the common people. The elite Sadducees were the upper class.

The Pharisees were part of the ruling class. As such, Saul, you do know that was his name then, had a lot of power, enough that he was given authority to imprison and persecute Christians. Yeah, that's going to make him want to be one of them.

2) Paul was well educated and a religious zealot. Having a big ego with a need to be a leader/converter, his personality was well suited for debate, persistence, and social vindication, even if he had to tolerate abuse.

Again, wrong. Saul was eager to PERSECUTE, not debate or persuade. Note that he was ferreting out Christians wherever he could find them, and taking action against them, not engaging them in debate.

3) His eventual successful leadership based on his "new" Jewish/Gentile gospel, using persuasive references to Jesus as the Jewish Messiah and Son of God (& his BS "vision" of J's resurrection), reinforced his zealous personality and tolerance for abuse from the traditional Jews and Romans.

Bogus on its face. Egomaniacs typically do not set themselves up for persecution. Instead, they set themselves up at the highest pinnacle of power they can reach. I do not recall Alexander the Great, Attila the Hun, Napoleon, etc identifying with the cultures they overthrew, relinquishing the reins of power, and attempting to gain influence by leading those overthrown. Saul already HAD power, and to become one of the Christians was to relinquish that power, not increase it.

4) Evidence of his behavioral reinforcement:
Paul founded several churches in Asia Minor and Europe, using his status as both a Jew & Roman citizen to advantage in his ministry to uneducated, confused & god-fearing Jewish and Roman audiences.

Actually, the churches included people from all segments of society. Paul would debate and preach openly. So much so, in fact, that he, as I mentioned before, had the snot beat out of him on multiple occasions. Hardly a hallmark of an egomaniac who already held a lot of power.

From a social science perspective (cultural anthropology, sociology, politics, psychology), the Bible stories are reflective of ancient mythology mixed with embellished autobiographical writings.

I'm sure you'd like to continue believing that, but your "analysis" of Paul is, quite simply, about as far off the mark as is possible.

---
The Pharisees were NOT part of the ruling class. To say they were simply discredits your arguments about Paul's motivations.

Within the hierarchy of Jewish sectarianism during the Jesus era, the Sadducees represented an aristocratic, wealthy, and traditional elite, in contrast to the Pharisees and the Essenes.

Actually, they were very powerful religious figures.

Within Pharisaic tradition, Paul/Saul learned how to make the mohair with which tents were made [Acts 18:1-3]. Later as a Christian missionary, that trade (& tent making) became a means of financial support for him that he practiced ... until he received funds from converted Gentiles & non-aristocratic Jews, who wanted to believe the crap about Jesus being the Jewish Messiah and/or "son of God", and they will be "saved" if they believe ... and cough up financial support.
.

He received support while he was in prison. Can you find where he demanded it so he could stop making and selling tents? Please do.

None of this, BTW, lends any credence to your insane belief that he thought becoming a Christian was a good power move.

---
Unless Muslim, my understanding is that religious leaders don't demand payments for their preaching; it would look bad to do so. However, they will be glad to "suggest" they need your financial support. They still get their "donations" ... or you go to hell

"Insane belief"? That describes perfectly Paul's claim about Jesus being the Jewish Messiah and "son of God" .

Hey, no one here knows the accurate details about events from 2,000 years ago. The Bible is one interpretation with a subjective bent.
I was simply offering an alternative hypothesis to the ridiculous claim of seeing a "resurrection".
If anyone claimed that today, would they be taken seriously by sane people?

There is an easy way to know the truth. Humble yourself and ask God. The Holy Ghost will teach you the truth of all things.

---
"to know the truth"?
I strongly doubt you know the "truth", but I'm sure you know how to fantasize.
I recommend that you take a class in academic psychology.
.

 

[hadit]

and you believe the fact there is no proof we go to different places is proof we go to the same place?......

We all go to the same place until proven otherwise. Go for it, prove it.

???.....how do you intend to prove we all go the the same place unless proven otherwise.....what if each of us goes to a distinctly unique place unless proven otherwise.......what if 12% of us go to Manitoba unless proven otherwise?.......what if some of us come back as Buddha and you come back as a cockroach unless proven otherwise......

You're speculating. Please provide proof to your theories. Actually, nobody knows where we go, but I see no reason to believe the bible. We are all born the same way, we all die the same way.

There are many things we all accept as truth without proof. Yet, apparently only God requires such a high standard of proof.

Like what? I need proof for everything.

You have already admitted that you are willing to disbelieve your own experience. Can you then prove that you in fact live in reality? I submit that you cannot, yet you live as though you do. Can you prove that any person is trustworthy? No, you act on faith that they will not betray you. Can you prove that your car will not explode the next time you start it? No, again you act on faith. Likewise, I do not have to prove God exists, because I trust that He does, and act on that faith. When I do, He is faithful to do what He promised to do.

 

[hadit]

Again, he was a very powerful, prosperous, well known Pharisee, at the top of the religious power structure of his day. You want us to believe he traded all that in for all the stuff he suffered, to become one of the people he persecuted, based on stuff he made up himself? Utter hogwash.

---
1) Paul wrote he was a Pharisee, a group of Jews who represented the common people. The elite Sadducees were the upper class.

The Pharisees were part of the ruling class. As such, Saul, you do know that was his name then, had a lot of power, enough that he was given authority to imprison and persecute Christians. Yeah, that's going to make him want to be one of them.

2) Paul was well educated and a religious zealot. Having a big ego with a need to be a leader/converter, his personality was well suited for debate, persistence, and social vindication, even if he had to tolerate abuse.

Again, wrong. Saul was eager to PERSECUTE, not debate or persuade. Note that he was ferreting out Christians wherever he could find them, and taking action against them, not engaging them in debate.

3) His eventual successful leadership based on his "new" Jewish/Gentile gospel, using persuasive references to Jesus as the Jewish Messiah and Son of God (& his BS "vision" of J's resurrection), reinforced his zealous personality and tolerance for abuse from the traditional Jews and Romans.

Bogus on its face. Egomaniacs typically do not set themselves up for persecution. Instead, they set themselves up at the highest pinnacle of power they can reach. I do not recall Alexander the Great, Attila the Hun, Napoleon, etc identifying with the cultures they overthrew, relinquishing the reins of power, and attempting to gain influence by leading those overthrown. Saul already HAD power, and to become one of the Christians was to relinquish that power, not increase it.

4) Evidence of his behavioral reinforcement:
Paul founded several churches in Asia Minor and Europe, using his status as both a Jew & Roman citizen to advantage in his ministry to uneducated, confused & god-fearing Jewish and Roman audiences.

Actually, the churches included people from all segments of society. Paul would debate and preach openly. So much so, in fact, that he, as I mentioned before, had the snot beat out of him on multiple occasions. Hardly a hallmark of an egomaniac who already held a lot of power.

From a social science perspective (cultural anthropology, sociology, politics, psychology), the Bible stories are reflective of ancient mythology mixed with embellished autobiographical writings.

I'm sure you'd like to continue believing that, but your "analysis" of Paul is, quite simply, about as far off the mark as is possible.

---
The Pharisees were NOT part of the ruling class. To say they were simply discredits your arguments about Paul's motivations.

Within the hierarchy of Jewish sectarianism during the Jesus era, the Sadducees represented an aristocratic, wealthy, and traditional elite, in contrast to the Pharisees and the Essenes.

Actually, they were very powerful religious figures.

Within Pharisaic tradition, Paul/Saul learned how to make the mohair with which tents were made [Acts 18:1-3]. Later as a Christian missionary, that trade (& tent making) became a means of financial support for him that he practiced ... until he received funds from converted Gentiles & non-aristocratic Jews, who wanted to believe the crap about Jesus being the Jewish Messiah and/or "son of God", and they will be "saved" if they believe ... and cough up financial support.
.

He received support while he was in prison. Can you find where he demanded it so he could stop making and selling tents? Please do.

None of this, BTW, lends any credence to your insane belief that he thought becoming a Christian was a good power move.

---
Unless Muslim, my understanding is that religious leaders don't demand payments for their preaching; it would look bad to do so. However, they will be glad to "suggest" they need your financial support. They still get their "donations" ... or you go to hell

Anyone saying that is a charlatan and cheat. God doesn't like that.

"Insane belief"? That describes perfectly Paul's claim about Jesus being the Jewish Messiah and "son of God" .

You seem to be more worried about Yeshua being the Messiah than you are about Paul. Wonder why that is.

Hey, no one here knows the accurate details about events from 2,000 years ago. The Bible is one interpretation with a subjective bent.
I was simply offering an alternative hypothesis to the ridiculous claim of seeing a "resurrection".
If anyone claimed that today, would they be taken seriously by sane people?

Actually, people do claim that today, and are taken very seriously, especially by the ones that see the dead raised to life.

So, IOW, even though you were NOT present, you feel qualified to pass judgement on an experience someone else had at a different time and place, and qualified to come up with an extremely UNLIKELY "alternative hypothesis" that requires an immense leap of illogic. Is that about the size of it?

 

[Taz]

We all go to the same place until proven otherwise. Go for it, prove it.

???.....how do you intend to prove we all go the the same place unless proven otherwise.....what if each of us goes to a distinctly unique place unless proven otherwise.......what if 12% of us go to Manitoba unless proven otherwise?.......what if some of us come back as Buddha and you come back as a cockroach unless proven otherwise......

You're speculating. Please provide proof to your theories. Actually, nobody knows where we go, but I see no reason to believe the bible. We are all born the same way, we all die the same way.

There are many things we all accept as truth without proof. Yet, apparently only God requires such a high standard of proof.

Like what? I need proof for everything.

You have already admitted that you are willing to disbelieve your own experience. Can you then prove that you in fact live in reality? I submit that you cannot, yet you live as though you do. Can you prove that any person is trustworthy? No, you act on faith that they will not betray you. Can you prove that your car will not explode the next time you start it? No, again you act on faith. Likewise, I do not have to prove God exists, because I trust that He does, and act on that faith. When I do, He is faithful to do what He promised to do.

God never promised to do anything. That came from a man written book.

 

[hadit]

???.....how do you intend to prove we all go the the same place unless proven otherwise.....what if each of us goes to a distinctly unique place unless proven otherwise.......what if 12% of us go to Manitoba unless proven otherwise?.......what if some of us come back as Buddha and you come back as a cockroach unless proven otherwise......

You're speculating. Please provide proof to your theories. Actually, nobody knows where we go, but I see no reason to believe the bible. We are all born the same way, we all die the same way.

There are many things we all accept as truth without proof. Yet, apparently only God requires such a high standard of proof.

Like what? I need proof for everything.

You have already admitted that you are willing to disbelieve your own experience. Can you then prove that you in fact live in reality? I submit that you cannot, yet you live as though you do. Can you prove that any person is trustworthy? No, you act on faith that they will not betray you. Can you prove that your car will not explode the next time you start it? No, again you act on faith. Likewise, I do not have to prove God exists, because I trust that He does, and act on that faith. When I do, He is faithful to do what He promised to do.

God never promised to do anything. That came from a man written book.

Interesting. He's kept His promises to me. How about all that stuff you take on faith without proof, after saying you require proof for everything?

 

[Taz]

You're speculating. Please provide proof to your theories. Actually, nobody knows where we go, but I see no reason to believe the bible. We are all born the same way, we all die the same way.

There are many things we all accept as truth without proof. Yet, apparently only God requires such a high standard of proof.

Like what? I need proof for everything.

You have already admitted that you are willing to disbelieve your own experience. Can you then prove that you in fact live in reality? I submit that you cannot, yet you live as though you do. Can you prove that any person is trustworthy? No, you act on faith that they will not betray you. Can you prove that your car will not explode the next time you start it? No, again you act on faith. Likewise, I do not have to prove God exists, because I trust that He does, and act on that faith. When I do, He is faithful to do what He promised to do.

God never promised to do anything. That came from a man written book.

Interesting. He's kept His promises to me. How about all that stuff you take on faith without proof, after saying you require proof for everything?

You've deluded yourself into thinking that a book has kept its promises to you. That's kooky.

 

[hadit]

There are many things we all accept as truth without proof. Yet, apparently only God requires such a high standard of proof.

Like what? I need proof for everything.

You have already admitted that you are willing to disbelieve your own experience. Can you then prove that you in fact live in reality? I submit that you cannot, yet you live as though you do. Can you prove that any person is trustworthy? No, you act on faith that they will not betray you. Can you prove that your car will not explode the next time you start it? No, again you act on faith. Likewise, I do not have to prove God exists, because I trust that He does, and act on that faith. When I do, He is faithful to do what He promised to do.

God never promised to do anything. That came from a man written book.

Interesting. He's kept His promises to me. How about all that stuff you take on faith without proof, after saying you require proof for everything?

You've deluded yourself into thinking that a book has kept its promises to you. That's kooky.

Absolutely not. The book doesn't keep the promises, God does.

 

[Taz]

Like what? I need proof for everything.

You have already admitted that you are willing to disbelieve your own experience. Can you then prove that you in fact live in reality? I submit that you cannot, yet you live as though you do. Can you prove that any person is trustworthy? No, you act on faith that they will not betray you. Can you prove that your car will not explode the next time you start it? No, again you act on faith. Likewise, I do not have to prove God exists, because I trust that He does, and act on that faith. When I do, He is faithful to do what He promised to do.

God never promised to do anything. That came from a man written book.

Interesting. He's kept His promises to me. How about all that stuff you take on faith without proof, after saying you require proof for everything?

You've deluded yourself into thinking that a book has kept its promises to you. That's kooky.

Absolutely not. The book doesn't keep the promises, God does.

Promises from a book. Get over it, it's made up by men.

 

[hadit]

You have already admitted that you are willing to disbelieve your own experience. Can you then prove that you in fact live in reality? I submit that you cannot, yet you live as though you do. Can you prove that any person is trustworthy? No, you act on faith that they will not betray you. Can you prove that your car will not explode the next time you start it? No, again you act on faith. Likewise, I do not have to prove God exists, because I trust that He does, and act on that faith. When I do, He is faithful to do what He promised to do.

God never promised to do anything. That came from a man written book.

Interesting. He's kept His promises to me. How about all that stuff you take on faith without proof, after saying you require proof for everything?

You've deluded yourself into thinking that a book has kept its promises to you. That's kooky.

Absolutely not. The book doesn't keep the promises, God does.

Promises from a book. Get over it, it's made up by men.

And yet they are kept. Interesting.

 

[Taz]

God never promised to do anything. That came from a man written book.

Interesting. He's kept His promises to me. How about all that stuff you take on faith without proof, after saying you require proof for everything?

You've deluded yourself into thinking that a book has kept its promises to you. That's kooky.

Absolutely not. The book doesn't keep the promises, God does.

Promises from a book. Get over it, it's made up by men.

And yet they are kept. Interesting.

Like what?

 

[PostmodernProph]

Like I said, we are all born the same, and die the same too.

well, I will mark down here that you said it......not really sure whether anybody will ever want to remember why or when, but we can acknowledge you said it.......

 

[PostmodernProph]

and you believe the fact there is no proof we go to different places is proof we go to the same place?......

We all go to the same place until proven otherwise. Go for it, prove it.

???.....how do you intend to prove we all go the the same place unless proven otherwise.....what if each of us goes to a distinctly unique place unless proven otherwise.......what if 12% of us go to Manitoba unless proven otherwise?.......what if some of us come back as Buddha and you come back as a cockroach unless proven otherwise......

You're speculating. Please provide proof to your theories. Actually, nobody knows where we go, but I see no reason to believe the bible. We are all born the same way, we all die the same way.

There are many things we all accept as truth without proof. Yet, apparently only God requires such a high standard of proof.

Like what? I need proof for everything.

except this....."we are all born the same, and die the same too".....you said you don't need proof for that.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

Promises from a book. Get over it, it's made up by men.

wait, what?.....

I need proof for everything.