More Liberals, Fewer Conservatives

[JakeStarkey]

HRC will not save this county, and the far right presidential social cons will not either.

 

[kaz]

Here is where you and I VIOLENTLY disagree. I am (most likely) around the same age as your Mother (Bless her soul).I am 71 - close to 72.

She will be 77 in September, so yeah, same age group

I never voted for anything concerning "money". I was NOT given a choice BUT to participate in the SS program. I began paying into it with my very first job. Again, against my will. I have paid into the "system" for the last 60 years with the PROMISE that I would be re-paid when I retired. THAT IS MY MONEY. PERIOD. END OF STORY.

No, that is not the end of the story. The end of the story is who is paying the bills, and it's your children's generation (my generation) and your grandchildren's generation. They lied to you, yes, but that doesn't give you the right to send the bills to us.

It is not my fault that politicians (from BOTH damned parties) continually rob from it. They don't consult me before they steal. Now, they are telling us fairy tells - yet again -that there isn't enough to "cover" the coming generations. Funny - they have MORE THAN ENOUGH money to pay for endless wars to make corporations rich beyond belief, printing money at a rate faster than a speeding bullet, but suddenly (for the 50th time) there isn't enough to fulfill their contractual obligations to the people that they "serve".

I agree with everything you're saying happened to you, but what about giving the bills to us makes that right? The fact is, none of the taxes you paid were ever saved, they spent it all

I cry BULLSHIT. And I cry BULLSHIT to any asshole that says that older people are getting "entitlements". Again - I PAID FOR IT. And I expect the "government" of the United States to live up to their end of the damned deal.

You didn't pay for it, we are paying for it. The money you paid wasn't saved. Since other people are paying for it, yes, it is another entitlement welfare program. I'm 52 and I'll walk away from everything I paid to not screw my children's generation like I got screwed by my parent's generation

 

[RandallFlagg]

Here is where you and I VIOLENTLY disagree. I am (most likely) around the same age as your Mother (Bless her soul).I am 71 - close to 72.

She will be 77 in September, so yeah, same age group

I never voted for anything concerning "money". I was NOT given a choice BUT to participate in the SS program. I began paying into it with my very first job. Again, against my will. I have paid into the "system" for the last 60 years with the PROMISE that I would be re-paid when I retired. THAT IS MY MONEY. PERIOD. END OF STORY.

No, that is not the end of the story. The end of the story is who is paying the bills, and it's your children's generation (my generation) and your grandchildren's generation. They lied to you, yes, but that doesn't give you the right to send the bills to us.

It is not my fault that politicians (from BOTH damned parties) continually rob from it. They don't consult me before they steal. Now, they are telling us fairy tells - yet again -that there isn't enough to "cover" the coming generations. Funny - they have MORE THAN ENOUGH money to pay for endless wars to make corporations rich beyond belief, printing money at a rate faster than a speeding bullet, but suddenly (for the 50th time) there isn't enough to fulfill their contractual obligations to the people that they "serve".

I agree with everything you're saying happened to you, but what about giving the bills to us makes that right? The fact is, none of the taxes you paid were ever saved, they spent it all

I cry BULLSHIT. And I cry BULLSHIT to any asshole that says that older people are getting "entitlements". Again - I PAID FOR IT. And I expect the "government" of the United States to live up to their end of the damned deal.

You didn't pay for it, we are paying for it. The money you paid wasn't saved. Since other people are paying for it, yes, it is another entitlement welfare program. I'm 52 and I'll walk away from everything I paid to not screw my children's generation like I got screwed by my parent's generation

Tough shit sonny. I paid for my Parents way - you'll go on paying for your Mother's way. My children are paying MY way. If you have a problem with that - take it up with your friendly politician. Frankly, I couldn't care less. Who the hell do you think you are? You think I (or your Mother) liked paying the SS taxes all those years!?!?! Now, because you have hurt feelings and buy into the bald faced lie that it won't be there for YOU - we should just give it back!?!?! Go to hell.

We all heard those same bullshit horror stories 40 years ago about how SS was going belly-up. Hell, the democrats have been using that tired scare tactic for AT LEAST that long. Still there. IT IS PRINTED ON PHONY MONEY. IT WILL BE PRINTED ON PHONY MONEY WHEN YOUR TURN COMES UP.

And, for the record, sonny - I am not sending you any bills. Those idiots that rob from the SS fund EVERY FISCAL YEAR are the crooks and they will continue to do it for the next 50 years. So, again, if you have a problem with paying YOUR fair share - take it up with them.

 

[JoeB131]

Indeed. Wrench turners make a decent living. So do Plumbers, Electricians, Pipe-fitters, welders, truck drivers. Hell, without truck drivers - the country stops.

Yes, but they ONLY make a decent living because you have unions keeping up the wage scales.

This is the point you nutters miss. Do you think the rich are paying the wrench turners a good wage out of the kindness of their hearts?

 

[JoeB131]

That was pre the information age. We did pretty well when we had blacksmiths too, should we bring them back?

Double Wide, wrenches still need to be turned, computers or not.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Edgetho, a mouth of the far right failure, posts leader boards as evidence of what?

that these people dont have much to do in their lives?....oops....sorry jake....

 

[Harry Dresden]

okay, while I'm always happy to see you guys fight amongst yourselves, what is your philosophy?

To eliminate dimocrap scum from surface of the planet

thats fine....can we include the repubocrap scum with that order?.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

See, I can post links, too.

But your link defined conservative as "set in their ways", not by a political barometer. So if their ways are already liberal, your study says they'll became more solidly liberal.

My link. OTOH, pointed out people tend towards more liberal political positions as they age. Common sense, really. For example, someone who was a rabid segregationist in their youth is probably not a rabid segregationist now.

So, they're not really contradictory. People tend to keep the same political positions, but if they do change, they tend to change towards the liberal.

Yes, liberals are the institution now, you won. So really you are the reactionaries. Republicans are moderates, they love government, just slightly less than you. Libertarians are the radicals, we want real change

people who want REAL change are the ones who are leaving all these useless self serving parties and making their own choices....

 

[Old Rocks]

On social issues, liberals matched conservatives for the first time ever, and will soon be the majority.

On Social Ideology the Left Catches Up to the Right

Since people tend to become more liberal as they age and mature, this is all especially bad news for conservatives. Because of young voters replacing old voters who died, the liberals gained a few million more voters between 2012 and 2016.

"If you are under 30 and you're not a liberal, you have no heart. If you are over 30 and you're not a conservative, you have no brain"

Get your act together. People naturally become much more conservative with age.

Some do. Their arteries get hard, and certain other organs soft. But not all. Some of us are liberals. LOL

 

[Old Rocks]

Since fewer now have jobs and are on the public dole, far be it from them to bite the hand that gives them "free money".

The old MO of increasing the proletariat.

But why do fewer of them have jobs?

Mostly because rich people have either replaced them with machines, sent their jobs overseas or imposed on their co-workers to work twice as hard for less money.

"The Capitalist will sell the Communist the rope we use to hang him." - Vladimir Lenin.

Yeah, we need more low end jobs turning wrenches, that's what will make our country richer

Low end job? I guess you consider 100k a year low end.

 

[eagle1462010]

Don't need blue collar jobs here.................LOL

Perhaps the next time someone on this thread loses their power at their home..............OR GOD FORBID their computer.....................the Blue Collar Electrician will just simply say...................you don't need us so you don't need your power..................ENJOY THE DARK.

 

[hipeter924]

On social issues, liberals matched conservatives for the first time ever, and will soon be the majority.

On Social Ideology the Left Catches Up to the Right

Since people tend to become more liberal as they age and mature, this is all especially bad news for conservatives. Because of young voters replacing old voters who died, the liberals gained a few million more voters between 2012 and 2016.

Well, not entirely. Keep in mind that this is views on social issues, and not economic issues.

You can have people that are socially liberal, but economically quite conservative.

 

[Toro]

Did the poll first set out by defining what it means by "Liberal" and "Conservatve"? Without that, this poll is pretty much meaningless.

People generally know what they are.

If you ask 1 person, that person might be confused. If you ask 1,000 people, they'll be pretty accurate.

People know what they are. What they're less likely to know is -- which definition you're using when you toss out a term that's commonly deliberately misused. If that's not specified, then all meaning is lost.

I refer you back to the article's own errant confusion of "Liberal" with "socialist" and "left". Dead giveaway. And you can see the same confusion in these forums.

It doesn't really matter what the definitions are. What matters is what people generally believe and how they self-identify in the context of the American political lexicon. If people consider themselves to be liberals, they will generally believe in progressive policies which are considered to be on the left whereas conservatives generally believe in policies which are considered to be on the right. Terms have meaning, and people generally understand what they mean.

This is empirically true. If what you were saying was true, then self-identification would be random, or close to it. IOW, the time-series of political self-identification would fluctuate dramatically, which is doesn't. Over many years, conservatives have outnumbered liberals in America by 1.5-2:1. If labels have little meaning, then in some years, Americans would self-identify more as liberals than conservatives. This is even more true within the parties as liberals tend to identify more with Democrats whereas conservatives more with Republicans.

Anecdotally, you see it on this board. Liberals/leftists/progressives, or whatever you want to call them, generally aren't advocating for more spending cuts, more tax cuts and more military spending on USMB. And you don't see many conservatives/right-wingers calling for single-payer health systems and more unions either.

Arguing about labels is semantics. In the broad context of American politics, people understand what those labels mean, and people generally know what they are.

 

[occupied]

Did the poll first set out by defining what it means by "Liberal" and "Conservatve"? Without that, this poll is pretty much meaningless.

People generally know what they are.

If you ask 1 person, that person might be confused. If you ask 1,000 people, they'll be pretty accurate.

People know what they are. What they're less likely to know is -- which definition you're using when you toss out a term that's commonly deliberately misused. If that's not specified, then all meaning is lost.

I refer you back to the article's own errant confusion of "Liberal" with "socialist" and "left". Dead giveaway. And you can see the same confusion in these forums.

It doesn't really matter what the definitions are. What matters is what people generally believe and how they self-identify in the context of the American political lexicon. If people consider themselves to be liberals, they will generally believe in progressive policies which are considered to be on the left whereas conservatives generally believe in policies which are considered to be on the right. Terms have meaning, and people generally understand what they mean.

This is empirically true. If what you were saying was true, then self-identification would be random, or close to it. IOW, the time-series of political self-identification would fluctuate dramatically, which is doesn't. Over many years, conservatives have outnumbered liberals in America by 1.5-2:1. If labels have little meaning, then in some years, Americans would self-identify more as liberals than conservatives. This is even more true within the parties as liberals tend to identify more with Democrats whereas conservatives more with Republicans.

Anecdotally, you see it on this board. Liberals/leftists/progressives, or whatever you want to call them, generally aren't advocating for more spending cuts, more tax cuts and more military spending on USMB. And you don't see many conservatives/right-wingers calling for single-payer health systems and more unions either.

Arguing about labels is semantics. In the broad context of American politics, people understand what those labels mean, and people generally know what they are.

There is a problem among conservatives of deliberately or accidentally lumping everything on the left from neocons like Hillary all the way out to communists into the exact same thing. They have flung the socialist label around so much that it has lost much of it's former stigma.

 

[LeftofLeft]

On social issues, liberals matched conservatives for the first time ever, and will soon be the majority.

On Social Ideology the Left Catches Up to the Right

Since people tend to become more liberal as they age and mature, this is all especially bad news for conservatives. Because of young voters replacing old voters who died, the liberals gained a few million more voters between 2012 and 2016.

Since fewer now have jobs and are on the public dole, far be it from them to bite the hand that gives them "free money".

The old MO of increasing the proletariat.

I think young people just getting weary of the increasingly mean spirited tone of conservatives. They tell young people that they are on their own while not seeming to care about their issues like student debt, the environment or lack of opportunity.

Student debt can be solved by holding Big Education more accountable. Look at the salaries and benefits under the antiquated notion of "tenure". Come up with more affordable higher education alternatives that align students education with the job market where skills sets are needed.

Watching students go almost 6 digits in debt so they can walk away with a degree in Women's Studies, Art History, Sociology, and no job prospects is socially irresponsible. The only people who win are the tenured instructors who would be fucked themselves if they had to go out into the real world and get paid for performance.

 

[occupied]

On social issues, liberals matched conservatives for the first time ever, and will soon be the majority.

On Social Ideology the Left Catches Up to the Right

Since people tend to become more liberal as they age and mature, this is all especially bad news for conservatives. Because of young voters replacing old voters who died, the liberals gained a few million more voters between 2012 and 2016.

Since fewer now have jobs and are on the public dole, far be it from them to bite the hand that gives them "free money".

The old MO of increasing the proletariat.

I think young people just getting weary of the increasingly mean spirited tone of conservatives. They tell young people that they are on their own while not seeming to care about their issues like student debt, the environment or lack of opportunity.

Student debt can be solved by holding Big Education more accountable. Look at the salaries and benefits under the antiquated notion of "tenure". Come up with more affordable higher education alternatives that align students education with the job market where skills sets are needed.

Watching students go almost 6 digits in debt so they can walk away with a degree in Women's Studies, Art History, Sociology, and no job prospects is socially irresponsible. The only people who win are the tenured instructors who would be fucked themselves if they had to go out into the real world and get paid for performance.

Even people with "Useful" degrees are having a hard time justifying the debt when compared with the available jobs, it is a bubble just like the housing bubble and lord help us when it pops.

 

[LeftofLeft]

On social issues, liberals matched conservatives for the first time ever, and will soon be the majority.

On Social Ideology the Left Catches Up to the Right

Since people tend to become more liberal as they age and mature, this is all especially bad news for conservatives. Because of young voters replacing old voters who died, the liberals gained a few million more voters between 2012 and 2016.

Since fewer now have jobs and are on the public dole, far be it from them to bite the hand that gives them "free money".

The old MO of increasing the proletariat.

I think young people just getting weary of the increasingly mean spirited tone of conservatives. They tell young people that they are on their own while not seeming to care about their issues like student debt, the environment or lack of opportunity.

Student debt can be solved by holding Big Education more accountable. Look at the salaries and benefits under the antiquated notion of "tenure". Come up with more affordable higher education alternatives that align students education with the job market where skills sets are needed.

Watching students go almost 6 digits in debt so they can walk away with a degree in Women's Studies, Art History, Sociology, and no job prospects is socially irresponsible. The only people who win are the tenured instructors who would be fucked themselves if they had to go out into the real world and get paid for performance.

Even people with "Useful" degrees are having a hard time justifying the debt when compared with the available jobs, it is a bubble just like the housing bubble and lord help us when it pops.

The core problem is student debt. It's time to drive down bloated, unnecessary costs associated with higher education. Look at how students at a 4 year university are gouged.... Student fees, multiple edition books that cannot be re used after one year. Time for alternative higher education that provides skills sets without the overhead. Market forces and competition to make traditional higher Ed more leaner, more efficient.

As for jobs, provide more incentives and less regulation for companies to keep jobs here.

 

[kaz]

Here is where you and I VIOLENTLY disagree. I am (most likely) around the same age as your Mother (Bless her soul).I am 71 - close to 72.

She will be 77 in September, so yeah, same age group

I never voted for anything concerning "money". I was NOT given a choice BUT to participate in the SS program. I began paying into it with my very first job. Again, against my will. I have paid into the "system" for the last 60 years with the PROMISE that I would be re-paid when I retired. THAT IS MY MONEY. PERIOD. END OF STORY.

No, that is not the end of the story. The end of the story is who is paying the bills, and it's your children's generation (my generation) and your grandchildren's generation. They lied to you, yes, but that doesn't give you the right to send the bills to us.

It is not my fault that politicians (from BOTH damned parties) continually rob from it. They don't consult me before they steal. Now, they are telling us fairy tells - yet again -that there isn't enough to "cover" the coming generations. Funny - they have MORE THAN ENOUGH money to pay for endless wars to make corporations rich beyond belief, printing money at a rate faster than a speeding bullet, but suddenly (for the 50th time) there isn't enough to fulfill their contractual obligations to the people that they "serve".

I agree with everything you're saying happened to you, but what about giving the bills to us makes that right? The fact is, none of the taxes you paid were ever saved, they spent it all

I cry BULLSHIT. And I cry BULLSHIT to any asshole that says that older people are getting "entitlements". Again - I PAID FOR IT. And I expect the "government" of the United States to live up to their end of the damned deal.

You didn't pay for it, we are paying for it. The money you paid wasn't saved. Since other people are paying for it, yes, it is another entitlement welfare program. I'm 52 and I'll walk away from everything I paid to not screw my children's generation like I got screwed by my parent's generation

Tough shit sonny. I paid for my Parents way - you'll go on paying for your Mother's way. My children are paying MY way. If you have a problem with that - take it up with your friendly politician. Frankly, I couldn't care less. Who the hell do you think you are? You think I (or your Mother) liked paying the SS taxes all those years!?!?! Now, because you have hurt feelings and buy into the bald faced lie that it won't be there for YOU - we should just give it back!?!?! Go to hell.

We all heard those same bullshit horror stories 40 years ago about how SS was going belly-up. Hell, the democrats have been using that tired scare tactic for AT LEAST that long. Still there. IT IS PRINTED ON PHONY MONEY. IT WILL BE PRINTED ON PHONY MONEY WHEN YOUR TURN COMES UP.

And, for the record, sonny - I am not sending you any bills. Those idiots that rob from the SS fund EVERY FISCAL YEAR are the crooks and they will continue to do it for the next 50 years. So, again, if you have a problem with paying YOUR fair share - take it up with them.

I'm discussing the issue with you. Grow up, baby. I usually like talking to you. But what I'm saying are the facts. When government takes money from one person and gives it to another by force, that is welfare. That you were screwed doesn't change that and telling us to do it to our kids isn't something I would ever support

 

[Darkwind]

On social issues, liberals matched conservatives for the first time ever, and will soon be the majority.

On Social Ideology the Left Catches Up to the Right

Since people tend to become more liberal as they age and mature, this is all especially bad news for conservatives. Because of young voters replacing old voters who died, the liberals gained a few million more voters between 2012 and 2016.

Since fewer now have jobs and are on the public dole, far be it from them to bite the hand that gives them "free money".

The old MO of increasing the proletariat.

I think young people just getting weary of the increasingly mean spirited tone of conservatives. They tell young people that they are on their own while not seeming to care about their issues like student debt, the environment or lack of opportunity.

And it is going to continue to be that way as long as people keep voting liberal. It is just a matter of time before the economic pain causes people to make a dramatic shift to the right. It might take a full twenty years to finally weed this garbage out but that is the way it is going to be because it appears no republican can win the whitehouse.

That really makes no sense, current trends do not support your theory. The pendulum has swung right for a very long time, the apex of the swing occurred when republicans nearly defaulted the government and crashed the economy with their debt ceiling stunt. Now all they do is gripe with their fatalistic bullshit that we can no longer afford to do great things or tackle the hard challenges. These young kids want some optimism and courage, republicans have abandoned it.

You know, I can't determine if your delusional or just radicalized.

 

[Wyatt earp]

On social issues, liberals matched conservatives for the first time ever, and will soon be the majority.

On Social Ideology the Left Catches Up to the Right

Since people tend to become more liberal as they age and mature, this is all especially bad news for conservatives. Because of young voters replacing old voters who died, the liberals gained a few million more voters between 2012 and 2016.

Since fewer now have jobs and are on the public dole, far be it from them to bite the hand that gives them "free money".

The old MO of increasing the proletariat.

I think young people just getting weary of the increasingly mean spirited tone of conservatives. They tell young people that they are on their own while not seeming to care about their issues like student debt, the environment or lack of opportunity.

Student debt can be solved by holding Big Education more accountable. Look at the salaries and benefits under the antiquated notion of "tenure". Come up with more affordable higher education alternatives that align students education with the job market where skills sets are needed.

Watching students go almost 6 digits in debt so they can walk away with a degree in Women's Studies, Art History, Sociology, and no job prospects is socially irresponsible. The only people who win are the tenured instructors who would be fucked themselves if they had to go out into the real world and get paid for performance.

Even people with "Useful" degrees are having a hard time justifying the debt when compared with the available jobs, it is a bubble just like the housing bubble and lord help us when it pops.

I agree with you there that's a major bubble that will pop soon.