More normal people with guns, more criminals getting shot during criminal attacks….good.

[AZrailwhale]

If "ten percent" is all of three people, not really.

Our murder rate increased by 30% in 2020. I guess all those guns weren't a good idea.

I’m pretty sure that was the result of Covid. US murder rates have been declining pretty steadily since 1992 with a couple of spikes. 2020 was one of those spikes. It was still lower than 1996 and only slightly higher than the last spike in 2001. Gun ownership has steadily climbed all those years. The spike in murder rates is because people like you insisted in releasing massive numbers of criminals during Covid. Cause and effect. Criminals in prison don’t kill anyone except other criminal inmates.

 

[SavannahMann]

So a total of 212 people POSSIBLY wrongly convicted over FORTY SEVEN YEARS. That's an average of FOUR AND A HALF possible wrongful convictions for murder a year. You have indicated that you live in Illinois, in your state in 2021 there were 514 people convicted of murder. If my math is correct that is a .008% rate of bad convictions. That's pretty good for any process run by human beings.

Police Detectives tend to specialize. Homicide Detectives investigate Homicides. Your argument is that while these Homicide Detectives were wrong, probably through shoddy work, hiding or losing exculpatory evidence, and even outright lying, at least according to the discovery in those overturned convictions of innocent men and women. What you are saying is that sure they lied in this one case. But they were totally honest in every other one.

That is the flaw in your argument. We know about this many. How many more, we will probably never know.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Police Detectives tend to specialize. Homicide Detectives investigate Homicides. Your argument is that while these Homicide Detectives were wrong, probably through shoddy work, hiding or losing exculpatory evidence, and even outright lying, at least according to the discovery in those overturned convictions of innocent men and women. What you are saying is that sure they lied in this one case. But they were totally honest in every other one.

That is the flaw in your argument. We know about this many. How many more, we will probably never know.

We’re not even sure they lied in these cases. Real life isn’t TV. Detectives usually have multiple cases assigned at once, sometimes dozens. Mistakes get made, facts overlooked, suspects may not have decent alibis. As I said four and a half out of seven hundred is a good record.
No system designed and operated by people is perfect.

 

[SavannahMann]

We’re not even sure they lied in these cases. Real life isn’t TV. Detectives usually have multiple cases assigned at once, sometimes dozens. Mistakes get made, facts overlooked, suspects may not have decent alibis. As I said four and a half out of seven hundred is a good record.
No system designed and operated by people is perfect.

Read the cases at the innocence project. Government Misconduct is almost always a factor in the conviction of the innocent man.

The idea idea that these cases of misconduct are isolated is laughable. Frankly I’d be surprised if half of those convicted were actually guilty of the crime they were accused of.

I just read about one not long ago.

How Discovery Channel’s ‘MythBusters’ Helped a Wrongly Convicted Man Prove His Innocence - Innocence Project

innocenceproject.org

The cop swore the young man had confessed and described how he committed the crime. Only one problem. There is no way it happened the way the cop claimed. A cigarette can not ignite gasoline. It just can’t.

Now what kind of fool would believe the cop was honest as could be in every other case?

 

[AZrailwhale]

Read the cases at the innocence project. Government Misconduct is almost always a factor in the conviction of the innocent man.

The idea idea that these cases of misconduct are isolated is laughable. Frankly I’d be surprised if half of those convicted were actually guilty of the crime they were accused of.

I just read about one not long ago.

How Discovery Channel’s ‘MythBusters’ Helped a Wrongly Convicted Man Prove His Innocence - Innocence Project

innocenceproject.org

The cop swore the young man had confessed and described how he committed the crime. Only one problem. There is no way it happened the way the cop claimed. A cigarette can not ignite gasoline. It just can’t.

Now what kind of fool would believe the cop was honest as could be in every other case?

Malfeasance is rare. Otherwise the innocence project would be getting thousands of prisoners released every month. Every time they prove malfeasance, ALL the prosecutors previous cases go under a microscope. People like you find one example and extrapolate it out to thousands.

 

[SavannahMann]

Malfeasance is rare. Otherwise the innocence project would be getting thousands of prisoners released every month. Every time they prove malfeasance, ALL the prosecutors previous cases go under a microscope. People like you find one example and extrapolate it out to thousands.

I deal in reasonable. Is it reasonable to assume the cop in question only lied on one case?

 

[JoeB131]

I’m pretty sure that was the result of Covid. US murder rates have been declining pretty steadily since 1992 with a couple of spikes. 2020 was one of those spikes. It was still lower than 1996 and only slightly higher than the last spike in 2001. Gun ownership has steadily climbed all those years. The spike in murder rates is because people like you insisted in releasing massive numbers of criminals during Covid. Cause and effect. Criminals in prison don’t kill anyone except other criminal inmates.

I'm sure it was, too... because most murders are domestic. And when you lock two people who can barely stand each other in a house for months at a time, and you dump a bunch of guns into the wild, they are going to start shooting each other over who drank the last can of Milwaukee's Best.

Has little to do with petty shoplifters not being locked up for months before their court dates because they couldn't afford bail.

 

[JoeB131]

Malfeasance is rare. Otherwise the innocence project would be getting thousands of prisoners released every month. Every time they prove malfeasance, ALL the prosecutors previous cases go under a microscope. People like you find one example and extrapolate it out to thousands.

190 cases of people being released from Death Row, and the only people Project Innocence really looks at are the Capital cases. Malfeasense is probably a lot more common than you think, when you have corrupt cops and prosecutors vs. overworked and barely competent public defenders.

When was the last time the government executed a rich person?

 

[AZrailwhale]

I deal in reasonable. Is it reasonable to assume the cop in question only lied on one case?

No and every case he investigated is going to be gone over with a fine-toothed comb. That's how it should be handled. Not by throwing the baby out with the bathwater. There are far more vicious murdering criminals out there than corrupt cops and DAs.

 

[AZrailwhale]

190 cases of people being released from Death Row, and the only people Project Innocence really looks at are the Capital cases. Malfeasense is probably a lot more common than you think, when you have corrupt cops and prosecutors vs. overworked and barely competent public defenders.

When was the last time the government executed a rich person?

190 out of tens or hundreds of thousands.

 

[Captain Caveman]

In 1979, there were nearly two automobile fatalities for each gun death. According to a study by Bloomberg, by 2015 firearm fatalities will surpass motor vehicle accidents as a cause of death.

The massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School has ignited a debate about gun safety, which is typical after a mass shooting. However, President Obama, in a speech to the residents of Newtown, CT, vowed to do more to stop gun violence. If this is true, he’ll have to take a look at the leading cause of gun deaths — suicide.

Eighty-five Americans are shot dead every day. Of those 53 — or 62 percent — are suicides.

Suicide is the 10th leading cause of death in America. You’re more likely to die in an accident and much more likely to die in a hospital suffering from heart disease or cancer. But if you’re going to die by a firearm, it will probably be the result of suicide.

There are 51,438 licensed retail gun stores in America, more than three times the number of McDonald’s restaurants.

Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins University Center for Gun Policy, told Bloomberg that it’s unclear if gun ownership is linked to violence. But there seems to be a clear link to gun availability, and familiarity with guns and suicide.

A Harvard University study conducted in 2007 found that “States with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm suicide and overall suicide.”

Adolescents who commit suicide by firearm generally use the family gun. Veterans have continually demonstrated high rates of suicide by firearm. Suicide by firearm is, of course, much more effective than other methods.

Gun deaths have been slowly rising since 2000, while deaths related to motor vehicles have plummeted since 2007.

Those who oppose further regulation of guns make the argument that guns are necessary for self-defense.

The 2011 study “Guns in the home provide greater health risk than benefit” showed that a gun is more likely to send a family member to the emergency room or the morgue than to ever be used against an intruder.

As the nation considers what can be done about gun violence, the issue of how to protect gun owners from themselves definitely needs to be considered

The Person You’re Most Likely To Kill With Your Gun Is You

In 1979, there were nearly two automobile fatalities for each gun death. According to a study by Bloomberg, by 2015 firearm fatalities will surpass motor vehicle accidents as a cause of death. The massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School has ignited a debate about gun safety, which is typical...

www.nationalmemo.com

 

[80zephyr]

In 1979, there were nearly two automobile fatalities for each gun death. According to a study by Bloomberg, by 2015 firearm fatalities will surpass motor vehicle accidents as a cause of death.

The massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School has ignited a debate about gun safety, which is typical after a mass shooting. However, President Obama, in a speech to the residents of Newtown, CT, vowed to do more to stop gun violence. If this is true, he’ll have to take a look at the leading cause of gun deaths — suicide.

Eighty-five Americans are shot dead every day. Of those 53 — or 62 percent — are suicides.

Suicide is the 10th leading cause of death in America. You’re more likely to die in an accident and much more likely to die in a hospital suffering from heart disease or cancer. But if you’re going to die by a firearm, it will probably be the result of suicide.

There are 51,438 licensed retail gun stores in America, more than three times the number of McDonald’s restaurants.

Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins University Center for Gun Policy, told Bloomberg that it’s unclear if gun ownership is linked to violence. But there seems to be a clear link to gun availability, and familiarity with guns and suicide.

A Harvard University study conducted in 2007 found that “States with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm suicide and overall suicide.”

Adolescents who commit suicide by firearm generally use the family gun. Veterans have continually demonstrated high rates of suicide by firearm. Suicide by firearm is, of course, much more effective than other methods.

Gun deaths have been slowly rising since 2000, while deaths related to motor vehicles have plummeted since 2007.

Those who oppose further regulation of guns make the argument that guns are necessary for self-defense.

The 2011 study “Guns in the home provide greater health risk than benefit” showed that a gun is more likely to send a family member to the emergency room or the morgue than to ever be used against an intruder.

As the nation considers what can be done about gun violence, the issue of how to protect gun owners from themselves definitely needs to be considered

The Person You’re Most Likely To Kill With Your Gun Is You

In 1979, there were nearly two automobile fatalities for each gun death. According to a study by Bloomberg, by 2015 firearm fatalities will surpass motor vehicle accidents as a cause of death. The massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School has ignited a debate about gun safety, which is typical...

www.nationalmemo.com

So the inference is that guns "cause" people to commit suicide. Japan has no guns, yet has one of the most suicidal country's on earth.

Why is that?

 

[JoeB131]

190 out of tens or hundreds of thousands.

On death Row, nowhere near. There are only 2000 people currently on death row, and the number hasn't exceeded 4000 since the DP was re-established in 1976.

One innocent person being executed is too many, and it has probably happened.

 

[AZrailwhale]

190 out of tens or hundreds of thousands.

On death Row, nowhere near. There are only 2000 people currently on death row, and the number hasn't exceeded 4000 since the DP was re-established in 1976.

One innocent person being executed is too many, and it has probably happened.

There are 2454 murderers on death row. More than 8,000 have been sentenced to death since 1976. Somy number was high. But 190 out of 8,000 is a tiny percentage .02754% if my Math is correct. Perfection is impossible in any human designed system, but this is damned close.

 

[2aguy]

I'm sure it was, too... because most murders are domestic. And when you lock two people who can barely stand each other in a house for months at a time, and you dump a bunch of guns into the wild, they are going to start shooting each other over who drank the last can of Milwaukee's Best.

Has little to do with petty shoplifters not being locked up for months before their court dates because they couldn't afford bail.

That is a lie

 

[2aguy]

In 1979, there were nearly two automobile fatalities for each gun death. According to a study by Bloomberg, by 2015 firearm fatalities will surpass motor vehicle accidents as a cause of death.

The massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School has ignited a debate about gun safety, which is typical after a mass shooting. However, President Obama, in a speech to the residents of Newtown, CT, vowed to do more to stop gun violence. If this is true, he’ll have to take a look at the leading cause of gun deaths — suicide.

Eighty-five Americans are shot dead every day. Of those 53 — or 62 percent — are suicides.

Suicide is the 10th leading cause of death in America. You’re more likely to die in an accident and much more likely to die in a hospital suffering from heart disease or cancer. But if you’re going to die by a firearm, it will probably be the result of suicide.

There are 51,438 licensed retail gun stores in America, more than three times the number of McDonald’s restaurants.

Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins University Center for Gun Policy, told Bloomberg that it’s unclear if gun ownership is linked to violence. But there seems to be a clear link to gun availability, and familiarity with guns and suicide.

A Harvard University study conducted in 2007 found that “States with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm suicide and overall suicide.”

Adolescents who commit suicide by firearm generally use the family gun. Veterans have continually demonstrated high rates of suicide by firearm. Suicide by firearm is, of course, much more effective than other methods.

Gun deaths have been slowly rising since 2000, while deaths related to motor vehicles have plummeted since 2007.

Those who oppose further regulation of guns make the argument that guns are necessary for self-defense.

The 2011 study “Guns in the home provide greater health risk than benefit” showed that a gun is more likely to send a family member to the emergency room or the morgue than to ever be used against an intruder.

As the nation considers what can be done about gun violence, the issue of how to protect gun owners from themselves definitely needs to be considered

The Person You’re Most Likely To Kill With Your Gun Is You

In 1979, there were nearly two automobile fatalities for each gun death. According to a study by Bloomberg, by 2015 firearm fatalities will surpass motor vehicle accidents as a cause of death. The massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School has ignited a debate about gun safety, which is typical...

www.nationalmemo.com

As was pointed out, you have to explqin how Japan, South Korea and China have higher suicide rates than we do....along with many European countries, and even Canada....

Guns are not the issue in suicide as thise ountries demonstate....you clod

 

[2aguy]

In 1979, there were nearly two automobile fatalities for each gun death. According to a study by Bloomberg, by 2015 firearm fatalities will surpass motor vehicle accidents as a cause of death.

The massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School has ignited a debate about gun safety, which is typical after a mass shooting. However, President Obama, in a speech to the residents of Newtown, CT, vowed to do more to stop gun violence. If this is true, he’ll have to take a look at the leading cause of gun deaths — suicide.

Eighty-five Americans are shot dead every day. Of those 53 — or 62 percent — are suicides.

Suicide is the 10th leading cause of death in America. You’re more likely to die in an accident and much more likely to die in a hospital suffering from heart disease or cancer. But if you’re going to die by a firearm, it will probably be the result of suicide.

There are 51,438 licensed retail gun stores in America, more than three times the number of McDonald’s restaurants.

Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins University Center for Gun Policy, told Bloomberg that it’s unclear if gun ownership is linked to violence. But there seems to be a clear link to gun availability, and familiarity with guns and suicide.

A Harvard University study conducted in 2007 found that “States with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm suicide and overall suicide.”

Adolescents who commit suicide by firearm generally use the family gun. Veterans have continually demonstrated high rates of suicide by firearm. Suicide by firearm is, of course, much more effective than other methods.

Gun deaths have been slowly rising since 2000, while deaths related to motor vehicles have plummeted since 2007.

Those who oppose further regulation of guns make the argument that guns are necessary for self-defense.

The 2011 study “Guns in the home provide greater health risk than benefit” showed that a gun is more likely to send a family member to the emergency room or the morgue than to ever be used against an intruder.

As the nation considers what can be done about gun violence, the issue of how to protect gun owners from themselves definitely needs to be considered

The Person You’re Most Likely To Kill With Your Gun Is You

In 1979, there were nearly two automobile fatalities for each gun death. According to a study by Bloomberg, by 2015 firearm fatalities will surpass motor vehicle accidents as a cause of death. The massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School has ignited a debate about gun safety, which is typical...

www.nationalmemo.com

Gun deaths had not been rising simce 2000, in fact, they started to go up after 2015 when the democrats befan their war on the police and started releasing violent gun criminals with a revolving door......

In fact, up until 2015, gun crime and gun murder had been going down, not up.....as millions and millions of Americans bought guns and 19 million begn carrying them.

 

[JoeB131]

There are 2454 murderers on death row. More than 8,000 have been sentenced to death since 1976. Somy number was high. But 190 out of 8,000 is a tiny percentage .02754% if my Math is correct. Perfection is impossible in any human designed system, but this is damned close.

That's one out of 42. That actually is a high number. We've recalled products for less defects than that.

Tell you what, I'll give you a bowl of M&M where one out of 42 had cyanide in it. Want to chow down?

 

[JoeB131]

Gun deaths had not been rising simce 2000, in fact, they started to go up after 2015 when the democrats befan their war on the police and started releasing violent gun criminals with a revolving door......

In fact, up until 2015, gun crime and gun murder had been going down, not up.....as millions and millions of Americans bought guns and 19 million begn carrying them.

Nope, they had been going up all along, but it spiked after 2015 because Heller and McDonald struck down the few attempts by states to control the number of guns out there.

The murder rate has not gone up because cops aren't allowed to pull over black people on pretextual stops anymore. Not that they ever stopped doing that.

 

[2aguy]

In 1979, there were nearly two automobile fatalities for each gun death. According to a study by Bloomberg, by 2015 firearm fatalities will surpass motor vehicle accidents as a cause of death.

The massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School has ignited a debate about gun safety, which is typical after a mass shooting. However, President Obama, in a speech to the residents of Newtown, CT, vowed to do more to stop gun violence. If this is true, he’ll have to take a look at the leading cause of gun deaths — suicide.

Eighty-five Americans are shot dead every day. Of those 53 — or 62 percent — are suicides.

Suicide is the 10th leading cause of death in America. You’re more likely to die in an accident and much more likely to die in a hospital suffering from heart disease or cancer. But if you’re going to die by a firearm, it will probably be the result of suicide.

There are 51,438 licensed retail gun stores in America, more than three times the number of McDonald’s restaurants.

Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins University Center for Gun Policy, told Bloomberg that it’s unclear if gun ownership is linked to violence. But there seems to be a clear link to gun availability, and familiarity with guns and suicide.

A Harvard University study conducted in 2007 found that “States with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm suicide and overall suicide.”

Adolescents who commit suicide by firearm generally use the family gun. Veterans have continually demonstrated high rates of suicide by firearm. Suicide by firearm is, of course, much more effective than other methods.

Gun deaths have been slowly rising since 2000, while deaths related to motor vehicles have plummeted since 2007.

Those who oppose further regulation of guns make the argument that guns are necessary for self-defense.

The 2011 study “Guns in the home provide greater health risk than benefit” showed that a gun is more likely to send a family member to the emergency room or the morgue than to ever be used against an intruder.

As the nation considers what can be done about gun violence, the issue of how to protect gun owners from themselves definitely needs to be considered

The Person You’re Most Likely To Kill With Your Gun Is You

In 1979, there were nearly two automobile fatalities for each gun death. According to a study by Bloomberg, by 2015 firearm fatalities will surpass motor vehicle accidents as a cause of death. The massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School has ignited a debate about gun safety, which is typical...

www.nationalmemo.com

Guns did not pass cars....simply look at the CDC body count.......considering the only relevant number is gun murder, since suicde in Japan, China, and South Korea beat us as do many European countries and in some years Canada....