Zone1 Mormons are fine, but I have to call BS on the golden plates story.

[Hector12]

You are totally losing it now. It's fun to show the errors of your ways and thinking and watch you implode into stuff like this.
1. Yes, Saints did go and build a Temple. But, not the Temple in D&C 84. It's not time yet. Close. That area in Jackson County, Missouri will be where New Jerusalem will be. And, there will be a Temple, I'm sure. That's in the future still. Zion is where the pure in heart dwell. Not a specific location. Oh, we get pushed around. Especially back in those days. Talk about lawlessness, something we seem to be falling back into in the big Democrat run cities. Yes, there will be an army of Saints. We call them missionaries. And, there will be more in that area as the Lord comes back to Adam Ondi Ahman and the Millennium gets closer. The Civil War prophecy did happen where it said it was going to happen, South Carolina. Did you miss your history class on that one? No,
As far as when the Lord will come again, read carefully verse 15. Did Joseph live to be 85? No. So, it didn't happen. Instead, the Saints had to be chastened and grow. Also, the Gospel had not been taken to the 4 corners of the earth yet. So, once again, you strike out.
See, it's in the interpretations of double minded people like where you got this trash from. And, another double minded man is licking it up, you.
The U.S. Government is being destroyed. Pay attention. It's being destroyed from within without a shot fired.

France and Great Britian did not become militarily involved in our Civil War.
Jesus did not return 1890 - 91. You can't talk your way out of that.

 

[Hector12]

I think a good overview of the Book of Abraham from the LDS perspective can be found at this link:

Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham

and yes Hector12, I have read it.

Good tell me about it. Ever since I was a teenager, when ever I won an argument the person I defeated would tell me to read a book saying that the book would that he was right, and I was wrong. I would tell him what I am telling you, "This is between you and me. Prove me wrong. I have already proven you wrong."

 

[onefour1]

Good tell me about it. Ever since I was a teenager, when ever I won an argument the person I defeated would tell me to read a book saying that the book would that he was right, and I was wrong. I would tell him what I am telling you, "This is between you and me. Prove me wrong. I have already proven you wrong."

Sorry, not gonna do that but I will post it here since you are too lazy to click the link:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints embraces the book of Abraham as scripture. This book, a record of the biblical prophet and patriarch Abraham, recounts how Abraham sought the blessings of the priesthood, rejected the idolatry of his father, covenanted with Jehovah, married Sarai, moved to Canaan and Egypt, and received knowledge about the Creation. The book of Abraham largely follows the biblical narrative but adds important information regarding Abraham’s life and teachings.

The book of Abraham was first published in 1842 and was canonized as part of the Pearl of Great Price in 1880. The book originated with Egyptian papyri that Joseph Smith translated beginning in 1835. Many people saw the papyri, but no eyewitness account of the translation survives, making it impossible to reconstruct the process. Only small fragments of the long papyrus scrolls once in Joseph Smith’s possession exist today. The relationship between those fragments and the text we have today is largely a matter of conjecture.

We do know some things about the translation process. The word translation typically assumes an expert knowledge of multiple languages. Joseph Smith claimed no expertise in any language. He readily acknowledged that he was one of the “weak things of the world,” called to speak words sent “from heaven.”1 Speaking of the translation of the Book of Mormon, the Lord said, “You cannot write that which is sacred save it be given you from me.”2 The same principle can be applied to the book of Abraham. The Lord did not require Joseph Smith to have knowledge of Egyptian. By the gift and power of God, Joseph received knowledge about the life and teachings of Abraham.

On many particulars, the book of Abraham is consistent with historical knowledge about the ancient world.3 Some of this knowledge, which is discussed later in this essay, had not yet been discovered or was not well known in 1842. But even this evidence of ancient origins, substantial though it may be, cannot prove the truthfulness of the book of Abraham any more than archaeological evidence can prove the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt or the Resurrection of the Son of God. The book of Abraham’s status as scripture ultimately rests on faith in the saving truths found within the book itself as witnessed by the Holy Ghost.

The Book of Abraham as Scripture​

Thousands of years ago, the prophet Nephi learned that one purpose of the Book of Mormon was to “establish the truth” of the Bible.4 In a similar way, the book of Abraham supports, expands, and clarifies the biblical account of Abraham’s life.

In the biblical account, God covenants with Abraham to “make of thee a great nation.”5 The book of Abraham provides context for that covenant by showing that Abraham was a seeker of “great knowledge” and a “follower of righteousness” who chose the right path in spite of great hardship. He rejected the wickedness of his father’s household and spurned the idols of the surrounding culture, despite the threat of death.6

In the Bible, God’s covenant with Abraham appears to begin during Abraham’s life. According to the book of Abraham, the covenant began before the foundation of the earth and was passed down through Adam, Noah, and other prophets.7 Abraham thus takes his place in a long line of prophets and patriarchs whose mission is to preserve and extend God’s covenant on earth. The heart of this covenant is the priesthood, through which “the blessings of salvation, even of life eternal” are conveyed.8

The book of Abraham clarifies several teachings that are obscure in the Bible. Life did not begin at birth, as is commonly believed. Prior to coming to earth, individuals existed as spirits. In a vision, Abraham saw that one of the spirits was “like unto God.”9 This divine being, Jesus Christ, led other spirits in organizing the earth out of “materials” or preexisting matter, not ex nihilo or out of nothing, as many Christians later came to believe.10 Abraham further learned that mortal life was crucial to the plan of happiness God would provide for His children: “We will prove them herewith,” God stated, “to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them,” adding a promise to add glory forever upon the faithful.11 Nowhere in the Bible is the purpose and potential of earth life stated so clearly as in the book of Abraham.

Origin of the Book of Abraham​

The powerful truths found in the book of Abraham emerged from a set of unique historical events. In the summer of 1835, an entrepreneur named Michael Chandler arrived at Church headquarters in Kirtland, Ohio, with four mummies and multiple scrolls of papyrus.12 Chandler found a ready audience. Due partly to the exploits of the French emperor Napoleon, the antiquities unearthed in the catacombs of Egypt had created a fascination across the Western world.13 Chandler capitalized on this interest by touring with ancient Egyptian artifacts and charging visitors a fee to see them.

These artifacts had been uncovered by Antonio Lebolo, a former cavalryman in the Italian army. Lebolo, who oversaw some of the excavations for the consul general of France, pulled 11 mummies from a tomb not far from the ancient city of Thebes. Lebolo shipped the artifacts to Italy, and after his death, they ended up in New York. At some point the mummies and scrolls came into Chandler’s possession.14

By the time the collection arrived in Kirtland, all but four mummies and several papyrus scrolls had already been sold. A group of Latter-day Saints in Kirtland purchased the remaining artifacts for the Church. After Joseph Smith examined the papyri and commenced “the translation of some of the characters or hieroglyphics,” his history recounts, “much to our joy [we] found that one of the rolls contained the writings of Abraham.”15

Translation and the Book of Abraham​

Joseph Smith worked on the translation of the book of Abraham during the summer and fall of 1835, by which time he completed at least the first chapter and part of the second chapter.16 His journal next speaks of translating the papyri in the spring of 1842, after the Saints had relocated to Nauvoo, Illinois. All five chapters of the book of Abraham, along with three illustrations (now known as facsimiles 1, 2, and 3), were published in the Times and Seasons, the Church’s newspaper in Nauvoo, between March and May 1842.17

The book of Abraham was the last of Joseph Smith’s translation efforts. In these inspired translations, Joseph Smith did not claim to know the ancient languages of the records he was translating. Much like the Book of Mormon, Joseph’s translation of the book of Abraham was recorded in the language of the King James Bible. This was the idiom of scripture familiar to early Latter-day Saints, and its use was consistent with the Lord’s pattern of revealing His truths “after the manner of their [His servants’] language, that they might come to understanding.”18

Joseph’s translations took a variety of forms. Some of his translations, like that of the Book of Mormon, utilized ancient documents in his possession. Other times, his translations were not based on any known physical records. Joseph’s translation of portions of the Bible, for example, included restoration of original text, harmonization of contradictions within the Bible itself, and inspired commentary.19

Some evidence suggests that Joseph studied the characters on the Egyptian papyri and attempted to learn the Egyptian language. His history reports that, in July 1835, he was “continually engaged in translating an alphabet to the Book of Abraham, and arranging a grammar of the Egyptian language as practiced by the ancients.”20 This “grammar,” as it was called, consisted of columns of hieroglyphic characters followed by English translations recorded in a large notebook by Joseph’s scribe, William W. Phelps. Another manuscript, written by Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery, has Egyptian characters followed by explanations.21

The relationship of these documents to the book of Abraham is not fully understood. Neither the rules nor the translations in the grammar book correspond to those recognized by Egyptologists today. Whatever the role of the grammar book, it appears that Joseph Smith began translating portions of the book of Abraham almost immediately after the purchase of the papyri.22 Phelps apparently viewed Joseph Smith as uniquely capable of understanding the Egyptian characters: “As no one could translate these writings,” he told his wife, “they were presented to President Smith. He soon knew what they were.”23

The Papyri​

After the Latter-day Saints left Nauvoo, the Egyptian artifacts remained behind. Joseph Smith’s family sold the papyri and the mummies in 1856. The papyri were divided up and sold to various parties; historians believe that most were destroyed in the Great Chicago Fire of 1871. Ten papyrus fragments once in Joseph Smith’s possession ended up in the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City.24 In 1967, the museum transferred these fragments to the Church, which subsequently published them in the Church’s magazine, the Improvement Era. 25

The discovery of the papyrus fragments renewed debate about Joseph Smith’s translation. The fragments included one vignette, or illustration, that appears in the book of Abraham as facsimile 1. Long before the fragments were published by the Church, some Egyptologists had said that Joseph Smith’s explanations of the various elements of these facsimiles did not match their own interpretations of these drawings. Joseph Smith had published the facsimiles as freestanding drawings, cut off from the hieroglyphs or hieratic characters that originally surrounded the vignettes. The discovery of the fragments meant that readers could now see the hieroglyphs and characters immediately surrounding the vignette that became facsimile 1.26

None of the characters on the papyrus fragments mentioned Abraham’s name or any of the events recorded in the book of Abraham. Latter-day Saint and non-Latter-day Saint Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham, though there is not unanimity, even among non-Latter-day Saint scholars, about the proper interpretation of the vignettes on these fragments.27 Scholars have identified the papyrus fragments as parts of standard funerary texts that were deposited with mummified bodies. These fragments date to between the third century B.C.E. and the first century C.E., long after Abraham lived.

Of course, the fragments do not have to be as old as Abraham for the book of Abraham and its illustrations to be authentic. Ancient records are often transmitted as copies or as copies of copies. The record of Abraham could have been edited or redacted by later writers much as the Book of Mormon prophet-historians Mormon and Moroni revised the writings of earlier peoples.28 Moreover, documents initially composed for one context can be repackaged for another context or purpose.29 Illustrations once connected with Abraham could have either drifted or been dislodged from their original context and reinterpreted hundreds of years later in terms of burial practices in a later period of Egyptian history. The opposite could also be true: illustrations with no clear connection to Abraham anciently could, by revelation, shed light on the life and teachings of this prophetic figure.

Some have assumed that the hieroglyphs adjacent to and surrounding facsimile 1 must be a source for the text of the book of Abraham. But this claim rests on the assumption that a vignette and its adjacent text must be associated in meaning. In fact, it was not uncommon for ancient Egyptian vignettes to be placed some distance from their associated commentary.30

Neither the Lord nor Joseph Smith explained the process of translation of the book of Abraham, but some insight can be gained from the Lord’s instructions to Joseph regarding translation. In April 1829, Joseph received a revelation for Oliver Cowdery that taught that both intellectual work and revelation were essential to translating sacred records. It was necessary to “study it out in your mind” and then seek spiritual confirmation. Records indicate that Joseph and others studied the papyri and that close observers also believed that the translation came by revelation. As John Whitmer observed, “Joseph the Seer saw these Record(s)
and by the revelation of Jesus Christ could translate these records.”31

It is likely futile to assess Joseph’s ability to translate papyri when we now have only a fraction of the papyri he had in his possession. Eyewitnesses spoke of “a long roll” or multiple “rolls” of papyrus.32 Since only fragments survive, it is likely that much of the papyri accessible to Joseph when he translated the book of Abraham is not among these fragments. The loss of a significant portion of the papyri means the relationship of the papyri to the published text cannot be settled conclusively by reference to the papyri.

Alternatively, Joseph’s study of the papyri may have led to a revelation about key events and teachings in the life of Abraham, much as he had earlier received a revelation about the life of Moses while studying the Bible. This view assumes a broader definition of the words translator and translation. 33 According to this view, Joseph’s translation was not a literal rendering of the papyri as a conventional translation would be. Rather, the physical artifacts provided an occasion for meditation, reflection, and revelation. They catalyzed a process whereby God gave to Joseph Smith a revelation about the life of Abraham, even if that revelation did not directly correlate to the characters on the papyri.34

The Book of Abraham and the Ancient World​

A careful study of the book of Abraham provides a better measure of the book’s merits than any hypothesis that treats the text as a conventional translation. Evidence suggests that elements of the book of Abraham fit comfortably in the ancient world and supports the claim that the book of Abraham is an authentic record.

The book of Abraham speaks disapprovingly of human sacrifice offered on an altar in Chaldea. Some victims were placed on the altar as sacrifices because they rejected the idols worshipped by their leaders.35 Recent scholarship has found instances of such punishment dating to Abraham’s time. People who challenged the standing religious order, either in Egypt or in the regions over which it had influence (such as Canaan), could and did suffer execution for their offenses.36 The conflict over the religion of Pharaoh, as described in Abraham 1:11–12, is an example of punishment now known to have been meted out during the Abrahamic era.

The book of Abraham contains other details that are consistent with modern discoveries about the ancient world. The book speaks of “the plain of Olishem,” a name not mentioned in the Bible. An ancient inscription, not discovered and translated until the 20th century, mentions a town called “Ulisum,” located in northwestern Syria.37 Further, Abraham 3:22–23 is written in a poetic structure more characteristic of Near Eastern languages than early American writing style.38

Joseph Smith’s explanations of the facsimiles of the book of Abraham contain additional earmarks of the ancient world. Facsimile 1 and Abraham 1:17 mention the idolatrous god Elkenah. This deity is not mentioned in the Bible, yet modern scholars have identified it as being among the gods worshipped by ancient Mesopotamians.39 Joseph Smith represented the four figures in figure 6 of facsimile 2 as “this earth in its four quarters.” A similar interpretation has been argued by scholars who study identical figures in other ancient Egyptian texts.40 Facsimile 1 contains a crocodile deity swimming in what Joseph Smith called “the firmament over our heads.” This interpretation makes sense in light of scholarship that identifies Egyptian conceptions of heaven with “a heavenly ocean.”41

The book of Abraham is consistent with various details found in nonbiblical stories about Abraham that circulated in the ancient world around the time the papyri were likely created. In the book of Abraham, God teaches Abraham about the sun, the moon, and the stars. “I show these things unto thee before ye go into Egypt,” the Lord says, “that ye may declare all these words.”42 Ancient texts repeatedly refer to Abraham instructing the Egyptians in knowledge of the heavens. For example, Eupolemus, who lived under Egyptian rule in the second century B.C.E., wrote that Abraham taught astronomy and other sciences to the Egyptian priests.43 A third-century papyrus from an Egyptian temple library connects Abraham with an illustration similar to facsimile 1 in the book of Abraham.44 A later Egyptian text, discovered in the 20th century, tells how the Pharaoh tried to sacrifice Abraham, only to be foiled when Abraham was delivered by an angel. Later, according to this text, Abraham taught members of the Pharaoh’s court through astronomy.45 All these details are found in the book of Abraham.

Other details in the book of Abraham are found in ancient traditions located across the Near East. These include Terah, Abraham’s father, being an idolator; a famine striking Abraham’s homeland; Abraham’s familiarity with Egyptian idols; and Abraham’s being younger than 75 years old when he left Haran, as the biblical account states. Some of these extrabiblical elements were available in apocryphal books or biblical commentaries in Joseph Smith’s lifetime, but others were confined to nonbiblical traditions inaccessible or unknown to 19th-century Americans.46

Conclusion​

The veracity and value of the book of Abraham cannot be settled by scholarly debate concerning the book’s translation and historicity. The book’s status as scripture lies in the eternal truths it teaches and the powerful spirit it conveys. The book of Abraham imparts profound truths about the nature of God, His relationship to us as His children, and the purpose of this mortal life. The truth of the book of Abraham is ultimately found through careful study of its teachings, sincere prayer, and the confirmation of the Spirit.

 

[Hector12]

Sorry, not gonna do that but I will post it here since you are too lazy to click the link:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints embraces the book of Abraham as scripture. This book, a record of the biblical prophet and patriarch Abraham, recounts how Abraham sought the blessings of the priesthood, rejected the idolatry of his father, covenanted with Jehovah, married Sarai, moved to Canaan and Egypt, and received knowledge about the Creation. The book of Abraham largely follows the biblical narrative but adds important information regarding Abraham’s life and teachings...

You copied and pasted all of this.

Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham

I did not think you were capable of writing something like this yourself.

There is nothing here but a lot of unfounded assertions based on nothing but wishful thinking.

I exposed the fraud of the Book of Abraham myself before I learned that scholars of ancient Egyptian writing agreed with me.

 

[Cougarbear]

France and Great Britian did not become militarily involved in our Civil War.
Jesus did not return 1890 - 91. You can't talk your way out of that.

I already did. There's nothing in the writings that even remotely suggests Jesus would return in 1890. Again, had Joseph Smith lived to be 85, that possibility may have happened. It's like in the NT where Paul speaks of the same thing that the Lord will return after a little short falling away or apostasy. It's nothing like what the JW prophet did telling of a specific day and year the end would happen. Again, you are not the authority of our scriptures. Also, what Joseph Smith said was the same as Paul and other apostles of his day, that the Lord is coming soon. When? Only the Father knows that. So, that is another reason this was not a prophecy of exactly when the Lord would appear.
What does France and Great Britain have to do with anything. The War began in South Carolina where the Prophet said it would. Note, no specific time given. Prophets don't do that.

 

[Cougarbear]

I think a good overview of the Book of Abraham from the LDS perspective can be found at this link:

Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham

and yes Hector12, I have read it.

These people have such a double mind. Even reprobate for many of them.

 

[Hector12]

I think a good overview of the Book of Abraham from the LDS perspective can be found at this link:

Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham

and yes Hector12, I have read it.

Tell me what is says in your own words. I exposed the fraud of the Book of Abraham on my own before I learned that scholars who could read the ancient Egyptian language agreed with me.

 

[Hector12]

This is much shorter than the jungle of words I have been told to write. It is as long as it needs to be to prove that the Book of Mormon is a fraud.

---------

Smithsonian Institution Statement Regarding the Book of Mormon​

Some Latter-day Saints, in their zeal to give tangible authenticity to the Book of Mormon, have told prospective converts that the Smithsonian Institution has used the Book of Mormon to verify sites in the New World. In response to numerous requests on this subject, the Smithsonian has issued the following paper detailing their position on the matter.

Information from the National Museum of Natural History Smithsonian Institution, Washington, D.C. 20560

Statement Regarding the Book of Mormon

1. The Smithsonian Institution has never used the Book of Mormon in any way as a scientific guide. Smithsonian archaeologists see no direct connection between the archaeology of the New World and the subject matter of the book.
2. The physical type of the American Indian is basically Mongoloid, being most closely related to that of the peoples of eastern, central, and northeastern Asia. Archaeological evidence indicates that the ancestors of the present Indians came into the New World — probably over a land bridge known to have existed in the Bering Strait region during the last Ice Age — in a continuing series of small migrations beginning from about 25,000 to 30,000 years ago.
3. Present evidence indicates that the first people to reach this continent from the East were the Norsemen who briefly visited the northeastern part of North America around A.D. 1000 and then settled in Greenland. There is nothing to show that they reached Mexico or Central America.
4. One of the main lines of evidence supporting the scientific finding that contacts with Old World civilizations, if indeed they occurred at all, were of very little significance for the development of American Indian civilizations, is the fact that none of the principal Old World domesticated food plants or animals (except the dog) occurred in the New World in pre-Columbian times. American Indians had no wheat, barley, oats, millet, rice, cattle, pigs, chickens, horses, donkeys, camels before 1492. (Camels and horses were in the Americas, along with the bison, mammoth, and mastodon, but all these animals became extinct around 10,000 B.C. at the time the early big game (sic) hunters spread across the Americas.)
5. Iron, steel, glass, and silk were not used in the New World before 1492 (except for occasional use of unsmelted meteoric iron). Native copper was worked used (sic) in various locations in pre-Columbian times, but true metallurgy was limited to southern Mexico and the Andean region, where its occurrence in late prehistoric times involved gold, silver, copper, and their alloys, but not iron.
6. There is a possibility that the spread of cultural traits across the Pacific to Mesoamerica and the northwestern coast of South America began several hundred years before the Christian era. However, any such inter-hemispheric contacts appear to have been the results of accidental voyages originating in eastern and southern Asia. It is by means certain that even such contacts occurred; certainly there were no contacts with the ancient Egyptians, Hebrews, or other peoples of Western Asia and the Near East.
7. No reputable Egyptologist or other specialist on Old World archaeology, and no expert on New World prehistory, has discovered or confirmed any relationship between archaeological remains in Mexico and archaeological remains in Egypt.
8. Reports of findings of ancient Egyptian, Hebrew, and other Old World writings in the New World in pre-Columbian contexts have frequently appeared in newspapers, magazines, and sensational books. None of these claims has stood up to examination by reputable scholars. No inscriptions using Old World forms of writing have been shown to have occurred in any part of the Americas before 1492 except for a few Norse rune stones which have been found in Greenland.
9. There are copies of the Book of Mormon in the library of the National Museum, of Natural History, Smithsonian Institution.

SIL – 76 Rev. May 1980

Smithsonian Institution Statement Regarding the Book of Mormon – Mormonism Research Ministry

www.mrm.org

 

[Cougarbear]

Tell me what is says in your own words. I exposed the fraud of the Book of Abraham on my own before I learned that scholars who could read the ancient Egyptian language agreed with me.

You used the words of anti-Mormon sites. Stop lying. Simply put, there is not enough physical evidence to say one way or another. Therefore, just like all religious books you have to be no doubting Thomas. As I gave you 3 different references, it’s with a sincere heart, real intent, without a double mind you can know through reading, studying, meditating and then the final step, pray to Father in Heaven.

 

[Hector12]

You used the words of anti-Mormon sites. Stop lying. Simply put, there is not enough physical evidence to say one way or another. Therefore, just like all religious books you have to be no doubting Thomas. As I gave you 3 different references, it’s with a sincere heart, real intent, without a double mind you can know through reading, studying, meditating and then the final step, pray to Father in Heaven.

I am not lying. I do not think you are. I think you believe the lies of Joseph Smith.

I do my own thinking, thank you very much. I did not prove the fraud of the Book of Abraham by reading anti Mormon websites. I proved it on my own by comparing the manuscript that Joseph Smith with a copy of the Book of the Dead I found in a neighborhood library. That book had the Book of the Dead on one side, and an English translation on the other.

I was able to match it with the manuscript Joseph Smith had, and his Facsimile No., 1, found on page 28 of the Book of Abraham, Facsimile No. 2, found on page 36 of the Book of Abraham, and Facsimile No. 4, found on page 41 of the Book of Abraham.

To my disappointment, there was no mention of Abraham, because I really did want to become a Mormon.

 

[onefour1]

I am not lying. I do not think you are. I think you believe the lies of Joseph Smith.

I do my own thinking, thank you very much. I did not prove the fraud of the Book of Abraham by reading anti Mormon websites. I proved it on my own by comparing the manuscript that Joseph Smith with a copy of the Book of the Dead I found in a neighborhood library. That book had the Book of the Dead on one side, and an English translation on the other.

I was able to match it with the manuscript Joseph Smith had, and his Facsimile No., 1, found on page 28 of the Book of Abraham, Facsimile No. 2, found on page 36 of the Book of Abraham, and Facsimile No. 4, found on page 41 of the Book of Abraham.

To my disappointment, there was no mention of Abraham, because I really did want to become a Mormon.

From the link I posted:

"Some have assumed that the hieroglyphs adjacent to and surrounding facsimile 1 must be a source for the text of the book of Abraham. But this claim rests on the assumption that a vignette and its adjacent text must be associated in meaning. In fact, it was not uncommon for ancient Egyptian vignettes to be placed some distance from their associated commentary.30"

30
Henk Milde, “Vignetten-Forschung,” in Burkhard Backes and others, eds., Totenbuch-Forschungen (Wiesbaden, Germany: Harrassowitz Verlag, 2006), 221–31; Holger Kockelmann, Untersuchungen zu den späten Totenbuch-Handschriften auf Mumienbinden (Wiesbaden, Germany: Harrassowitz Verlag, 2008), 2:212–14; Valérie Angenot, “Discordance entre texte et image. Deux exemples de l’Ancien et du Nouvel Empires,” GöttingerMiszellen 187 (2002): 11–21.

 

[Hector12]

From the link I posted:

"Some have assumed that the hieroglyphs adjacent to and surrounding facsimile 1 must be a source for the text of the book of Abraham. But this claim rests on the assumption that a vignette and its adjacent text must be associated in meaning. In fact, it was not uncommon for ancient Egyptian vignettes to be placed some distance from their associated commentary.30"

30
Henk Milde, “Vignetten-Forschung,” in Burkhard Backes and others, eds., Totenbuch-Forschungen (Wiesbaden, Germany: Harrassowitz Verlag, 2006), 221–31; Holger Kockelmann, Untersuchungen zu den späten Totenbuch-Handschriften auf Mumienbinden (Wiesbaden, Germany: Harrassowitz Verlag, 2008), 2:212–14; Valérie Angenot, “Discordance entre texte et image. Deux exemples de l’Ancien et du Nouvel Empires,” GöttingerMiszellen 187 (2002): 11–21.

What matters is that there is no mention of Abraham in the manuscript from which Joseph Smith claimed to translate the Book of Abraham. Consequently, the Book of Abraham is a fraud.

 

[DudleySmith]

The Gentiles as a people have never heard the voice of Jesus Christ. Jesus was only sent to preach unto the house of Israel.

lol wrong.

Galatians 3:26-29 King James Version​

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.​

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.​

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.​

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.​

​

Read the entire Chapter​

This isn't the only chapter and book that points this out. Mormons are just copying the racist Babylonian rubbish imposed by Ezra to benefit themselves.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I am not lying. I do not think you are. I think you believe the lies of Joseph Smith.

I do my own thinking, thank you very much. I did not prove the fraud of the Book of Abraham by reading anti Mormon websites. I proved it on my own by comparing the manuscript that Joseph Smith with a copy of the Book of the Dead I found in a neighborhood library. That book had the Book of the Dead on one side, and an English translation on the other.

I was able to match it with the manuscript Joseph Smith had, and his Facsimile No., 1, found on page 28 of the Book of Abraham, Facsimile No. 2, found on page 36 of the Book of Abraham, and Facsimile No. 4, found on page 41 of the Book of Abraham.

To my disappointment, there was no mention of Abraham, because I really did want to become a Mormon.

again, retard the book of the dead wasn't even discovered when Smith began his translation and it hadn't been translated when he finished.

 

[Hector12]

again, retard the book of the dead wasn't even discovered when Smith began his translation and it hadn't been translated when he finished.

That does not have anything do do with this controversy. The manuscript from which Joseph Smith claimed to translate the Book of Abraham ws written about a century before the time of Christ. It could not have possibly been written by Abraham "in his own write," as Joseph Smith claimed. That manuscript was a copy of the Book of the Dead. It concerns ancient Egyptian deities. It says nothing about Abraham.

The Book of Abraham proves that Joseph Smith was a fraud. He was not a prophet. He was not even deluded. He was a religious charlatan. The Mormon missionaries who were trying to convert me were shocked and dismayed when I shared the results of my research with them. Keep in mind I figured that out myself. It was only later that I learned that scholars who study ancient Egyptian writing agree with me.

I wonder if those Mormon missionaries are still Mormons. I may have destroyed their faith.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

That does not have anything do do with this controversy. The manuscript from which Joseph Smith claimed to translate the Book of Abraham ws written about a century before the time of Christ. It could not have possibly been written by Abraham "in his own write," as Joseph Smith claimed. That manuscript was a copy of the Book of the Dead. It concerns ancient Egyptian deities. It says nothing about Abraham.

The Book of Abraham proves that Joseph Smith was a fraud. He was not a prophet. He was not even deluded. He was a religious charlatan. The Mormon missionaries who were trying to convert me were shocked and dismayed when I shared the results of my research with them. Keep in mind I figured that out myself. It was only later that I learned that scholars who study ancient Egyptian writing agree with me.

I wonder if those Mormon missionaries are still Mormons. I may have destroyed their faith.

LOL claiming something impossible is quite relevant you MORON.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

<snip> I wonder if those Mormon missionaries are still Mormons. I may have destroyed their faith.

The Mission President easily dealt with your falsehoods.

 

[Hector12]

The Mission President easily dealt with your falsehoods.

Explain in your own words what I said that is not true.

I proved that the Book of Abraham is a fraud. The Book of Mormon is also a fraud.

The Book of Mormon claims to be a detailed history of pre Columbian America from 600 B.C. to about 421 A.D. There is no evidence that any of the events recorded in the Book of Mormon happened, and much evidence that they did not happen.

 

[onefour1]

What matters is that there is no mention of Abraham in the manuscript from which Joseph Smith claimed to translate the Book of Abraham. Consequently, the Book of Abraham is a fraud.

I don't think you understand what is being said. Joseph Smith had other scrolls which contained the Book of Abraham which were not the fragments found in the NY Museum. You are making the assumption that the Book of Abraham was contained in the writings that were found in the NY Museum. We don't believe that.

 

[onefour1]

lol wrong.

Galatians 3:26-29 King James Version​

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.​

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.​

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.​

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.​

​

Read the entire Chapter​

This isn't the only chapter and book that points this out. Mormons are just copying the racist Babylonian rubbish imposed by Ezra to benefit themselves.

So it was rubbish that Jesus taught that he was only sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel? Those who accept the teachings of Jesus and receive his gospel are considered one in the faith no matter who they are. However, this is stated in Galatians after the gospel had gone unto the Gentiles. Before that, the gospel was only sent unto the House of Israel.