Zone1 Mormons are fine, but I have to call BS on the golden plates story.

[Cougarbear]

He isnt interested in facts just his ignorant claims

It's sad because others read it without any context and answers.

 

[Cougarbear]

This site can’t be reached​

Check if there is a typo in www.jefflinsay.com.

• If spelling is correct, try running Windows Network Diagnostics.

DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN

When I ran Windows Network Diagnostics I got:

"Trouble shooting couldn't identify the problem."

I was able to get to www.jefflinsay.com yesterday. Maybe the website has been taken down.

Anyway, I copied and pasted what I found there yesterday, and I was not impressed by it.

Arggg... The "d" was left out. www.jeff lindsay.com

 

[Cougarbear]

I found this website and clicked on it:

Frequently Asked Questions About Latter-day Saints

This series of answers to frequently asked questions about the Church’s teachings should help further illuminate what Latter-day Saints believe.

newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org

The Book of Mormon was described but not justified. There was no explanation of why there is no independent, contemporary mention of any of the events written about in the Book of Mormon, as there often is about the Bible. There was no mention of the Book of Abraham.

See if this helps. I understand people have struggles with the technology of the internet: Answers About Mormons and Mormon Beliefs (LDS FAQ - Latter-day Saints)
Then, look on the left side for sites to click on. Enjoy...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

See if this helps. I understand people have struggles with the technology of the internet: Answers About Mormons and Mormon Beliefs (LDS FAQ - Latter-day Saints)
Then, look on the left side for sites to click on. Enjoy...

why waste your time on someone who isnt interested in facts?

 

[hobelim]

I know more about Mormonism than the Mormon missionaries who come to my door to tell me about Mormonism. I have read The Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. Many of them have not heard of the Book of Abraham, so I tell them about it.

Joseph Smith had a vision that Jesus appeared in the southwest and taught the people living there even though there is no corroborating Native American testimony of this ever happening. Right?

When a prophet has a vision it comes across as if it has already happened years before it does.

My question is, do you think it is possible that Joseph Smith had a vision of a future event?

 

[Hector12]

why waste your time on someone who isnt interested in facts?

I love facts. That is why I evaluated the Book of Abraham and the Book of Mormon rationally, and did not let my desire to become a Mormon interfere with may evaluation.

 

[Cougarbear]

why waste your time on someone who isnt interested in facts?

Patience is sometimes a virtue. So, I'll give them 7 times 70 chances

 

[onefour1]

If you have read this explain it in your own words. Explain why the manuscript from which Joseph Smith is known to have used in composing the Book of Mormon says nothing about Abraham, and concerns ancient Egyptian gods and goddesses.

Keep in mind that I discovered the fraud of the Book of Abraham myself. Only later did I learn that the experts agreed with me.

Those essays are very long, but when they need to prove something they tell me to click on yet another essay. I could spend days reading all that stuff and still not have an explanation of why what I claimed in my first paragraph in this comment is invalid.

I doubt many Mormons read all that. They just think that in all those words there must be truth. I think all those words are smoke screens to hide the truth.

Well, if I were going to check into a topic I would want to get information from a more knowledgeable and direct source on a topic. Why would you want it in my own words. I'm not an expert on the Book of Abraham. If you are truly interested in the topic, you would want to read it from those who have spent countless hours researching and investigating the topic.

One thing I do know is that many who try to put down the Book of Abraham try to play it off that the fragments from New York Museum were the only source Joseph Smith had for the Book of Abraham and that the translation of the fragments prove the Book of Abraham as false. That is a deception because he had other, much longer, scrolls that held the actual Book of Abraham that were later sent to the St. Louis Museum and then later ended up in the Chicago Museum where they were burn in a fire in 1871.

Neither side has absolute proof because there has not been enough evidence to make such a determination. However, the links we have posted offer some very good evidence for the authenticity of the Book of Abraham. So if you don't want to read them, that is your choice. But I find them to be rather interesting.

 

[Hector12]

Well, if I were going to check into a topic I would want to get information from a more knowledgeable and direct source on a topic. Why would you want it in my own words. I'm not an expert on the Book of Abraham. If you are truly interested in the topic, you would want to read it from those who have spent countless hours researching and investigating the topic.

One thing I do know is that many who try to put down the Book of Abraham try to play it off that the fragments from New York Museum were the only source Joseph Smith had for the Book of Abraham and that the translation of the fragments prove the Book of Abraham as false. That is a deception because he had other, much longer, scrolls that held the actual Book of Abraham that were later sent to the St. Louis Museum and then later ended up in the Chicago Museum where they were burn in a fire in 1871.

Neither side has absolute proof because there has not been enough evidence to make such a determination. However, the links we have posted offer some very good evidence for the authenticity of the Book of Abraham. So if you don't want to read them, that is your choice. But I find them to be rather interesting.

The Book of Abraham has facsimiles Joseph Smith copied from the Book of the Dead manuscript. There is no mention in that manuscript of Abraham.

 

[Hector12]

Neither side has absolute proof because there has not been enough evidence to make such a determination. However, the links we have posted offer some very good evidence for the authenticity of the Book of Abraham. So if you don't want to read them, that is your choice. But I find them to be rather interesting.

Have you read those links yourself? I doubt many Mormons have. They think in that jungle words there must be truth.

 

[Hector12]

Patience is sometimes a virtue. So, I'll give them 7 times 70 chances

Who's ignorant? I have read the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. I have talked to quite a few Mormon missionaries. Without exception I know more about their religion than they do. Most have never heard of the Book of Abraham.

 

[Cougarbear]

Who's ignorant? I have read the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. I have talked to quite a few Mormon missionaries. Without exception I know more about their religion than they do. Most have never heard of the Book of Abraham.

Reading the books is only part of the understanding process. Praying, meditating and a real desire to know the truth without a double mind and with real intent is key. Do you have this ability?

 

[Hector12]

Reading the books is only part of the understanding process. Praying, meditating and a real desire to know the truth without a double mind and with real intent is key. Do you have this ability?

When trying to find where truth lies on a controversial subject I do not allow what I want to believe to influence what I can believe given the evidence.

------------

D&C 9:8–9. Do These Verses Apply to All Members of the Church?​

Though the principle of studying something out in one’s mind and seeking confirmation through the burning of the bosom or a stupor of thought was given to Oliver Cowdery to use in translating the Book of Mormon, this process of receiving revelation can be of value to all Saints. President Joseph Fielding Smith explained that “a similar privilege is given to any member of the Church who seeks knowledge in the spirit of prayer and faith. The Lord will cause the feeling of security and truth to take hold of the individual and burn within the bosom, and there will be an overwhelming feeling that the thing is right.

Section 9, “Your Bosom Shall Burn within You”

Section 9, “Your Bosom Shall Burn within You”-Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

----------

A burning within the bosom may indicate a heart attack, or heart burn, but it is not the way to determine the truth of the Book of Mormon, or anything else for that matter. The way to determine the truth of the Book of Mormon is to see if there is a Book or Mormon archaeology, and there is not. Archaeologists have learned much about the pre Columbian Indians that was unknown when Joseph Smith composed the Book of Mormon. They have found no confirmation of any of the events written about in The Book of Mormon.

The Bible mentions empires and political leaders that we know exist from evidence outside of the Bible. Nothing like this exists for The Book of Mormon.

I rarely get a burning in my bosom. When I do I take two or three Tums tablets. I certainly got no burning in my bosom when I finished reading The Book of Mormon. I was just glad that I had finished reading it.

 

[Hector12]

why waste your time on someone who isnt interested in facts?

Facts are what I am interested in, not wishful thinking. I wanted Mormonism to be true, and I was disappointed when I found that it is not true.

 

[Cougarbear]

When trying to find where truth lies on a controversial subject I do not allow what I want to believe to influence what I can believe given the evidence.

------------

D&C 9:8–9. Do These Verses Apply to All Members of the Church?​

Though the principle of studying something out in one’s mind and seeking confirmation through the burning of the bosom or a stupor of thought was given to Oliver Cowdery to use in translating the Book of Mormon, this process of receiving revelation can be of value to all Saints. President Joseph Fielding Smith explained that “a similar privilege is given to any member of the Church who seeks knowledge in the spirit of prayer and faith. The Lord will cause the feeling of security and truth to take hold of the individual and burn within the bosom, and there will be an overwhelming feeling that the thing is right.

Section 9, “Your Bosom Shall Burn within You”

Section 9, “Your Bosom Shall Burn within You”-Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

----------

A burning within the bosom may indicate a heart attack, or heart burn, but it is not the way to determine the truth of the Book of Mormon. The way to determine the truth of the Book of Mormon is to see if there is a Book or Mormon archaeology, and there is not. Archaeologists have learned much about the pre Columbian Indians that was unknown when Joseph Smith composed the Book of Mormon. They have found no confirmation of any of the events written about in The Book of Mormon.

The Bible mentions empires and political leaders that we know exist from evidence outside of the Bible. Nothing like this exists for The Book of Mormon.

I rarely get a burning in my bosom. When I do I take two or three Tums tablets. I certainly got no burning in my bosom when I finished reading The Book of Mormon. I was just glad that I had finished reading it.

Doubting Thomas syndrome. Once again, you think you are smarter than God. See, science will never prove God exists. Why? Because we are sent to earth to find the truth through faith, not science. The eyes can also be deceived easily. But, the devil cannot enter through the heart to deceive. D&C 9:8-9 is only part of what is needed. James 1:5 - 8, "5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." And, the Book of Mormon, Moroni 10:4 - 5, "4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. 5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.:
1. Sincere heart
2. Faith not wavereth in Christ
3. Upbraideth not
4. Not a doubleminded sneak
5. Ask the Father in the name of the Son
6. Real intent to know by the influence of the Holy Ghost

None of these things do you possess or have possessed in the past. You have no faith in the Godhead, Father, Son and Holy Ghost. You aren't sincere with your heart because you cast aside your heart. You find fault (abraideth) with the men and women of God, the teachings through prophets and apostles and missionaries who are authorized to preach to you what you need to know, not what they need to know. They already have a testimony that you lack. I doubt you asked the Father in the name of the Son anything. And, you seek to find truth through everything but through the directions from God meaning you have no real intent to know the things of God. With this said, it's hard to communicate with you because you refuse to come my direction in spiritual knowledge. You suppose I do the opposite but I'm well educated in things of the world including science, archeology, geology and so on. The thing I recognize is science is always changing their stories about everything. Always learning but never able to come to the knowledge of truth, 2Timothy 3:7. Lack of humility causes this idea that your brain is superior to anyone else's brain. You won't lose a thing by moving my direction of knowledge of truth. We have brilliant scientists as well. Steven Hawkins visited BYU once when I was there. I met him. He was there because of the smart people that also have faith in God.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Faith and testimony are personal and singular. It has nothing to do with being "smarter than God."

Study the matter out, check the evidence, make the solid choice.

Faith and testimony do not override anyone else's choice.

 

[Synthaholic]

The word cult is not an insult

The way the Southern Baptists use it certainly is.

 

[Hector12]

Consider the wonders of science. The internet and the personal computers we are using to have this conversation do not exist because of faith, but because of evidence found by repeatable experiments.

What you call faith, Cougebar, is nothing more than wishful thinking in something you want to believe. The problem is that there is no reason for anyone to agree with you.

You believe, in lieu of any evidence at all, and despite an abundance of contrary evidence, that the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham are true. Muslim terrorists believe, for equally illusory reasons, that by killing people for Allah they will go to Paradise and enjoy the favors of seventy two virgins.

That is what faith leads to, Cougebar. Mormonism is comparatively harmless when matched with Islamic fanaticism. Nevertheless, there is no reason to believe that the convictions of Mormon missionaries or Islamic terrorists are true.

I wanted to become a Mormon, but I did not want to believe that Mormonism is true; I wanted to know that it is true. What I learned about the Book of Abraham through my personal evaluation of the relevant evidence, made that knowledge impossible. Only later did I learn that the experts agreed with me.

 

[Hector12]

Doubting Thomas syndrome. ...

Moroni 10:4 - 5, "4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. 5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.:
1. Sincere heart
2. Faith not wavereth in Christ
3. Upbraideth not
4. Not a doubleminded sneak
5. Ask the Father in the name of the Son
6. Real intent to know by the influence of the Holy Ghost

St. Thomas saw the Risen Lord, and his wounds from the crucifixion. You have nothing to show me. The problem with the six things you list is that they lead different people to completely different conclusions, with no way to determine who is right.

 

[surada]

Joseph Smith had a vision that Jesus appeared in the southwest and taught the people living there even though there is no corroborating Native American testimony of this ever happening. Right?

When a prophet has a vision it comes across as if it has already happened years before it does.

My question is, do you think it is possible that Joseph Smith had a vision of a future event?

Joseph Smith was just a con artist.