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You do know that people with legal carry permits are not allowed to carry on the grounds of any school don't you?links?Had someone in those mosques had a gun, the shooter could have been stopped....he reloaded several times......
another gun free zone tragedy.....
Never happens... I guess the whole world must be a gun free zone, since a mass shooter has never been stopped by a good guy with a gun before he got started.
Moron, actual research shows that armed citizens have a 94% success rate when they have their guns with them at stopping mass shooters, and saving lives.......but don't let facts get in your way.
Here....
Keep in mind almost all mass public shootings take place in government mandated gun free zones for law abiding citizens...so they don't have their legal guns with them most of the time....but when they do?
Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]
Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.
Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.
In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.
We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.
Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.
If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.
If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general
=====
One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.
As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.
How many armed people stood outside at Parkland.
Your statistics are bullshit.
Mass shootings at bars, churches/mosques, businesses.
When mature Christians pray, we pray for healing, this is true. We don't pray for healing with the expectation that God will always provide it. We will all die. Either from old age or accidents, or disease, etc. God is not a slave to OUR will, Joe. He is not obligated to OUR will because we pray for it. I mean even very young children understand this. That's why I'm so perplexed by your reaction to your mother's death.
You can maybe make a feeble case about that being the "right thing to do" because it helps people get along in society. But that case falls apart very easily. From your worldview there IS no "Right" and there is no "wrong". You are molecules in motion. You are especially not obligated to help out a single other person. What makes that "right"? Your claims about that being the "Right thing to do" are specious at best.
We have more than enough we just don't enforce themEvidently, not enough.We already have plenty of gun control lawsSo, Gun Control, means no one has any guns?Apparently, gun control doesn't work in New Zealand......they have had a mass public shooting against two Mosques. The shooter....who had a gun.......may have killed 49 people....... but this isn't possible, because they have gun control in New Zealand...so initial reports are likely wrong....
And, of course, the sites were gun free zones....right?
And before the anti-gunners start......I used to wait to comment on these attacks....until the anti-gunners would be the first on the scene, walking through the blood, dragging the bodies to the nearest camera calling for taking guns away from the very people who could have stopped the attack...
Christchurch shooting: 49 dead in terror attack at two mosques – live updates
- Forty-nine people have been killed in shootings at two mosques in the New Zealand city of Christchurch. They included 41 people killed at the Deans Avenue mosque and seven at Linwood mosque. Another victim died later in Christchurch hospital.
....I asked you to state those factors--and you DID NOT--because you know it's bullshit......the US has one of the highest gun owner ships in the world--yet the murder rate is MANY times higher than France, Japan, UK, NZ, etcThere are more things under heaven and on earth that effect murder rates, Harmonica, than gun laws........you are a real genius --NZ's murder rate is FIVE times lower than the US--and you use it for gun control NOT working....????!!!!!!!!!??????
...you also bring up the UK--murder rate FOUR times lower
..correct me if I'm wrong---we want LOWER murder rates--not higher-----right??
..please explain....
what else Affects murder rates?
You do know that we are different from France, Japan etc don't you?
There are many factors that affect murder rates besides gun laws
That you see gun laws as a panacea for murder illustrates your simplistic thinking
Many states with lax gun laws have murder rates as low as the UK
one more time--state the factors
So they could carry an assault type rifle to within 100 feet or less of an entrance and be perfectly legal.You do know that people with legal carry permits are not allowed to carry on the grounds of any school don't you?links?Never happens... I guess the whole world must be a gun free zone, since a mass shooter has never been stopped by a good guy with a gun before he got started.
Moron, actual research shows that armed citizens have a 94% success rate when they have their guns with them at stopping mass shooters, and saving lives.......but don't let facts get in your way.
Here....
Keep in mind almost all mass public shootings take place in government mandated gun free zones for law abiding citizens...so they don't have their legal guns with them most of the time....but when they do?
Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]
Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.
Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.
In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.
We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.
Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.
If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.
If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general
=====
One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.
As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.
How many armed people stood outside at Parkland.
Your statistics are bullshit.
Mass shootings at bars, churches/mosques, businesses.
So if there were a bunch of people who were armed at the school they would all be breaking the law and since the vast majority of gun owners are all law abiding , they were not at the school with guns.
We have more than enough we just don't enforce themEvidently, not enough.We already have plenty of gun control lawsSo, Gun Control, means no one has any guns?Apparently, gun control doesn't work in New Zealand......they have had a mass public shooting against two Mosques. The shooter....who had a gun.......may have killed 49 people....... but this isn't possible, because they have gun control in New Zealand...so initial reports are likely wrong....
And, of course, the sites were gun free zones....right?
And before the anti-gunners start......I used to wait to comment on these attacks....until the anti-gunners would be the first on the scene, walking through the blood, dragging the bodies to the nearest camera calling for taking guns away from the very people who could have stopped the attack...
Christchurch shooting: 49 dead in terror attack at two mosques – live updates
- Forty-nine people have been killed in shootings at two mosques in the New Zealand city of Christchurch. They included 41 people killed at the Deans Avenue mosque and seven at Linwood mosque. Another victim died later in Christchurch hospital.
We can ban these stupid assault type rifles.
Not everywhere.So they could carry an assault type rifle to within 100 feet or less of an entrance and be perfectly legal.You do know that people with legal carry permits are not allowed to carry on the grounds of any school don't you?links?Moron, actual research shows that armed citizens have a 94% success rate when they have their guns with them at stopping mass shooters, and saving lives.......but don't let facts get in your way.
Here....
Keep in mind almost all mass public shootings take place in government mandated gun free zones for law abiding citizens...so they don't have their legal guns with them most of the time....but when they do?
Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]
Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.
Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.
In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.
We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.
Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.
If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.
If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general
=====
One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.
As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.
How many armed people stood outside at Parkland.
Your statistics are bullshit.
Mass shootings at bars, churches/mosques, businesses.
So if there were a bunch of people who were armed at the school they would all be breaking the law and since the vast majority of gun owners are all law abiding , they were not at the school with guns.
The cops have no legal obligation to come to the aid of the publicMoron, actual research shows that armed citizens have a 94% success rate when they have their guns with them at stopping mass shooters, and saving lives.......but don't let facts get in your way.
Yeah, sure... you tell yourself that.
Thing is, the Bad guy with a gun has a plan, and he has gotten his shots off before anyone can react....
So do nothing, and be a victim. If police followed your line of reasoning, there would be none.
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And most firearm murders are committed by people who got their guns illegallyPeople who have never actually seen a gun, believe it’s considered a novelty by those who own guns. They don’t understand that it’s something that you keep on your person concealed, like you have a wallet or car keys. It’s used as a last ditch effort to protect yourself. You can never win this argument. Wishing no guns exist, is in way reality.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Exactly. No amount of gun control can uninvent the gun. There are 360 million firearms in the United States. 360 MILLION.
That means, if the are 11,000 murders by firearm in the US (and I didn't check if that was accurate, I just did the math) that is .00003 murders per gun.
Get that? For every 100,000 guns owned in America, there are 3 murders per year.
Poverty causes crime! So Trump and everyone else in politics being millionaires means they never commit crimes!
Dumbass.
Again, when the poor steal, it's called crime.
When the rich steal, it's called profits.
Happy to have cleared that up for you.
Heh, don't let the fact that it was still a shooting stop you either, Joe. Lovely dodge.
Gun control as you see it is useless. People will always find a way around it.
Not really. Turns out the shooter was from Australia, where they actually DO have meaningful gun control laws. While there were plenty of Muslims in Australia making this guy angry, he had to go to New Zealand where the gun laws were a lot more lax to get enough guns to go on a rampage.
Poverty, unemployment under employment, shit schools, break down of the family unit,
Where do most murders and violent crimes take place in this country?
Poor urban areas all afflicted by the above.
Denying that we have very significant, political, cultural, and socioeconomic differences from those European countries you love so much is extremely simplistic
How hard is it to get a gun illegally when we have more guns than we have people old enough and mature enough to own one? An abundance of anything makes that item easily attainable as any passing 9th grader learns in their Economics class. Open up enough unlocked car doors in this country and you`ll find a gun or two. It sure beats having to fill out those forms and dealing with those nuisance background checks.And most firearm murders are committed by people who got their guns illegallyPeople who have never actually seen a gun, believe it’s considered a novelty by those who own guns. They don’t understand that it’s something that you keep on your person concealed, like you have a wallet or car keys. It’s used as a last ditch effort to protect yourself. You can never win this argument. Wishing no guns exist, is in way reality.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Exactly. No amount of gun control can uninvent the gun. There are 360 million firearms in the United States. 360 MILLION.
That means, if the are 11,000 murders by firearm in the US (and I didn't check if that was accurate, I just did the math) that is .00003 murders per gun.
Get that? For every 100,000 guns owned in America, there are 3 murders per year.
Poverty, unemployment under employment, shit schools, break down of the family unit,
Where do most murders and violent crimes take place in this country?
Poor urban areas all afflicted by the above.
Denying that we have very significant, political, cultural, and socioeconomic differences from those European countries you love so much is extremely simplistic
Actually, I've known three people who've died of gun violence, and none of them were poor.
How hard is it to get a gun illegally when we have more guns than we have people old enough and mature enough to own one? An abundance of anything makes that item easily attainable as any passing 9th grader learns in their Economics class. Open up enough unlocked car doors in this country and you`ll find a gun or two. It sure beats having to fill out those forms and dealing with those nuisance background checks.And most firearm murders are committed by people who got their guns illegallyPeople who have never actually seen a gun, believe it’s considered a novelty by those who own guns. They don’t understand that it’s something that you keep on your person concealed, like you have a wallet or car keys. It’s used as a last ditch effort to protect yourself. You can never win this argument. Wishing no guns exist, is in way reality.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Exactly. No amount of gun control can uninvent the gun. There are 360 million firearms in the United States. 360 MILLION.
That means, if the are 11,000 murders by firearm in the US (and I didn't check if that was accurate, I just did the math) that is .00003 murders per gun.
Get that? For every 100,000 guns owned in America, there are 3 murders per year.
Happy to oblige. BTW, do you have proof that 999.99% of gun owners have no illegal guns in their possession? I didn`t say they bought them!How hard is it to get a gun illegally when we have more guns than we have people old enough and mature enough to own one? An abundance of anything makes that item easily attainable as any passing 9th grader learns in their Economics class. Open up enough unlocked car doors in this country and you`ll find a gun or two. It sure beats having to fill out those forms and dealing with those nuisance background checks.And most firearm murders are committed by people who got their guns illegallyPeople who have never actually seen a gun, believe it’s considered a novelty by those who own guns. They don’t understand that it’s something that you keep on your person concealed, like you have a wallet or car keys. It’s used as a last ditch effort to protect yourself. You can never win this argument. Wishing no guns exist, is in way reality.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Exactly. No amount of gun control can uninvent the gun. There are 360 million firearms in the United States. 360 MILLION.
That means, if the are 11,000 murders by firearm in the US (and I didn't check if that was accurate, I just did the math) that is .00003 murders per gun.
Get that? For every 100,000 guns owned in America, there are 3 murders per year.
You tell me.
I've never tried to buy a gun illegally and neither have 99.999% of gun owners
Happy to oblige. BTW, do you have proof that 999.99% of gun owners have no illegal guns in their possession? I didn`t say they bought them!How hard is it to get a gun illegally when we have more guns than we have people old enough and mature enough to own one? An abundance of anything makes that item easily attainable as any passing 9th grader learns in their Economics class. Open up enough unlocked car doors in this country and you`ll find a gun or two. It sure beats having to fill out those forms and dealing with those nuisance background checks.And most firearm murders are committed by people who got their guns illegallyPeople who have never actually seen a gun, believe it’s considered a novelty by those who own guns. They don’t understand that it’s something that you keep on your person concealed, like you have a wallet or car keys. It’s used as a last ditch effort to protect yourself. You can never win this argument. Wishing no guns exist, is in way reality.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Exactly. No amount of gun control can uninvent the gun. There are 360 million firearms in the United States. 360 MILLION.
That means, if the are 11,000 murders by firearm in the US (and I didn't check if that was accurate, I just did the math) that is .00003 murders per gun.
Get that? For every 100,000 guns owned in America, there are 3 murders per year.
You tell me.
I've never tried to buy a gun illegally and neither have 99.999% of gun owners
Inside Straw Purchasing: How Criminals Get Guns Illegally
frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS
https://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/For-teens-illegal-guns-easy-to-get-on-streets-1283875.php
And if it doesn't happen to you or someone you know it doesn't happen right?
And let's be clear from the start.
Suicide is not gun violence. So if any of those people died by their own hand take them off the list
And if it doesn't happen to you or someone you know it doesn't happen right?
And let's be clear from the start.
Suicide is not gun violence. So if any of those people died by their own hand take them off the list
"It's okay honey... little Timmy shot himself. He wasn't murdered by a dirty stinking Minority!" said no one, ever.
FOAD!
Gun control is tighter in New Zealand.Poverty causes crime! So Trump and everyone else in politics being millionaires means they never commit crimes!
Dumbass.
Again, when the poor steal, it's called crime.
When the rich steal, it's called profits.
Happy to have cleared that up for you.
Heh, don't let the fact that it was still a shooting stop you either, Joe. Lovely dodge.
Gun control as you see it is useless. People will always find a way around it.
Not really. Turns out the shooter was from Australia, where they actually DO have meaningful gun control laws. While there were plenty of Muslims in Australia making this guy angry, he had to go to New Zealand where the gun laws were a lot more lax to get enough guns to go on a rampage.
You have left out this one. The majority of these users comes from middle and upper class homes......I asked you to state those factors--and you DID NOT--because you know it's bullshit......the US has one of the highest gun owner ships in the world--yet the murder rate is MANY times higher than France, Japan, UK, NZ, etcThere are more things under heaven and on earth that effect murder rates, Harmonica, than gun laws........you are a real genius --NZ's murder rate is FIVE times lower than the US--and you use it for gun control NOT working....????!!!!!!!!!??????
...you also bring up the UK--murder rate FOUR times lower
..correct me if I'm wrong---we want LOWER murder rates--not higher-----right??
..please explain....
what else Affects murder rates?
You do know that we are different from France, Japan etc don't you?
There are many factors that affect murder rates besides gun laws
That you see gun laws as a panacea for murder illustrates your simplistic thinking
Many states with lax gun laws have murder rates as low as the UK
one more time--state the factors
Poverty, unemployment under employment, shit schools, break down of the family unit,
Where do most murders and violent crimes take place in this country?
Poor urban areas all afflicted by the above.
Denying that we have very significant, political, cultural, and socioeconomic differences from those European countries you love so much is extremely simplistic
