Mueller's Sinking Reputation

Which statements most closely represent what you think right now

  • There were FISA warrant abuses

    Votes: 10 34.5%
  • There were no FISA warrant abuses

    Votes: 1 3.4%
  • I don't know whether there were FISA warrant abuses

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I don't care whether there were FISA warrant abuses

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I don't know what FISA warrants are.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The Mueller investigation was politically motivated.

    Votes: 13 44.8%
  • The Mueller investigation was not politically motivated.

    Votes: 4 13.8%
  • I don't know whether the Mueller investigation was politically motivated.

    Votes: 1 3.4%
  • I don't care whether the Mueller investigation was politically motivated..

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    29
Those who have tried to be unbiased and objective in their analysis of current events re Trump, Russia, obstruction and all the extraneous stories that have come from that, have been particularly interested in Special Counsel Mueller's methods and motives. And the possible abuses of the FISA warrant system that seems to have triggered Mueller's investigation.

Mueller concluded no Americans were culpable in any way with the very real Russian effort to interfere with our elections. That would include that the President was not culpable in any way in that.

But it seems obvious to a lot of us now that Mueller fully intended to nail President Trump with a crime. When he failed to do that he has resorted to most unprofessional obfusication and blatant suggestive innuendo which most likely would be to give the Democrats ammo to continue their efforts to take down a sitting President of the United States.

Note: having said that please spare us the whataboutisms re Clinton, Obama, etc. Let us focus on one issue at a time on the theory that two wrongs don't make a right or whatever.

One of the most insidious possible charges that may be true: Mueller knew a year ago that there was no evidence identifying President Trump or anybody else with the Russians. That should have been made public before the 2018 midterms. It was unconscionable that it was not.

In an essay in today's Real Clear Politics:

. . . Mueller should have known at least a year ago, and perhaps earlier, that Trump and his senior aides never cooperated with the Russians. He had a duty, Republicans say, to disclose that in a timely way to the American public. He failed in that duty, leaving an unnecessary cloud over Trump and impeding his presidency. Why? And why didn’t Rod Rosenstein, who was supervising the investigation for the Department of Justice, step in and resolve these issues?. . .

. . .Perhaps the worst self-inflicted damage was Mueller’s “not not guilty” statement about Trump. His exact quote: “If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so.” That statement is a frontal assault on the oldest, deepest principles of Western law:

  • No one has to prove their innocence; everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty, and that includes the president, Supreme Court nominees, and anyone else; and
  • Prosecutors should never pronounce guilt before a verdict or assert someone committed crimes or “bad acts” without charging them. Either charge a crime or shut up. Mueller missed an excellent opportunity to shut up.
In violating these fundamental legal principles, Mueller mirrored the infamous 2016 press conference by then-FBI Director James Comey, where he detailed Hillary Clinton’s (alleged) misdeeds and then declined to charge her. The charging decision should have been made by the DoJ, not the FBI, and the allegations should never have been mentioned unless they were charged. Comey’s press conference is an act that will live in infamy.
Mueller's Sinking Reputation | RealClearPolitics

Currently there are two investigations in progress re all this:

--misuse/abuse of the FISA court and warrants conducted by I.G. Michael Horowitz which will determine if key players instigating the investigation of the Trump campaign did that
and
--investigation of the origination of the Russia hoax investigation by Special Prosecutor John Durham that many hope will reveal political motivation, corruption, and malfeasance in the Russia investigation.

For sure those who are publicly accused and are innocent should be publicly exonerated. And those who are guilty should be exposed. I have become jaded and skeptical that those who misuse and abuse government powers for their own self interests will ever be brought to justice. But I hold at a glimmer of hope maybe?

Time will tell.

Anybody want to speculate on what the results will be? The poll is designed for multiple choice and for any who want to change their vote to do so.

This is a partisan article. Mueller did not conclude that there was no collusion. He decided that there was no meeting in which the Russians and the Trump campaign agreed to do certain things. Mueller's report states that "Manafort briefed Kilimnik on the state of the Trump Campaign and Manafort's plan to win
the election. That briefing encompassed the Campaign's messaging and its internal polling data. According to Gates, it also included discussion of "battleground" states, which Manafort identified as Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Minnesota."

Kilimnik has been identified as having ties to Russian Intelligence. Of course Mueller was unable to follow up on this. Kilimnik would be the next step in the chain however Mueller was unable to subpoena him since he is a Russian national.

In a earlier meeting in May, Manafort directed Gates to send internal polling data.

Manafort gave the Russians a roadmap on how they could help Trump. They didn't need to coordinate.

Secondly this is not a court hearing nor is a hearing on a nominee to the Supreme Court. Innocent until proven guilty does not apply here. The fact is that DOJ policy forbids the indictment of a sitting President. Starr accused Clinton of 13 offenses. Since Starr could not indict Clinton then Starr violated legal principles as well.

When you take a partisan article and say that you are non-partisan, that does not ring true/

I'll ask you to point out the partisan aspects of the article. I have asked others and so far nobody has offered any information on how the article is partisan or biased in any way.

News flash: disagreement with your opinion is NOT being partisan.
 
Perhaps you can point out the speculative points that I did not indicate were speculative? And what is partisan?
Many on the left get all their news from biased sources. They are never exposed to differing opinions. So upon being exposed to an unbiased source, consider it biased.

I suppose the same thing happens on right, though it is difficult only being exposed to right wing bias with an MSM that is mostly on the left.

That's why I read people on the left who I admire and respect such as Michael Kinsley, Camille Paglia, even Maureen Dowd has some good insight to offer now and then. I have terribly missed William Raspberry since he retired. You won't find a Trump supporter in the group, but they for the most part engage in intellectual honesty that is sorely missing from most of the stuff coming from the left. Too many who once were rational people demonstrating critical thought have succumbed to the radical left and engage in that to keep what small audiences they have.

Pretty much the ONLY access to media that isn't radical left these days are a few small newspapers, conservative talk radio, Fox News and reading the objective and I believe essentially non partisan writers like the one who inspired the OP. (And the radical left is doing their damndest to find a way to shut down any media source who doesn't agree with them.)
The MSM is not controlled by the 'radical left'. It is owned by 6 large companies and basically controlled by a global corporate network.

Much of the MSM is controlled by those six billionaires. Those billionaires are globalists and members of the transnational capitalist class. This class not only controls most of our media, but also controls our central government.


Again you are probably right and a dishonest mostly leftist media and blatant efforts to silence anybody who disagrees with it or who supports anything not supported by the left is extremely dangerous to our nation and our liberties.

Unless all are allowed, even invited to express their opinions, however much we disagree with those opinions, we are doomed as a Democratic Republic founded on the principle of individual liberty. And no education happens at all. Only indoctrination.

The only reason censorship matters is that those people who don't watch Fox News, who don't listen to conservative talk radio, and/or don't read the very few conservative print publications left, have absolutely no accurate information on what is happening re the Mueller probe or the investigations currently in progress. Or why they are necessary.

I suspect a lot of this divisiveness promoted by the MSM and the two political parties is committed purposely. They want us divided so they can continue to line their pockets and steal ever greater political power.
 
Many on the left get all their news from biased sources. They are never exposed to differing opinions. So upon being exposed to an unbiased source, consider it biased.

I suppose the same thing happens on right, though it is difficult only being exposed to right wing bias with an MSM that is mostly on the left.

That's why I read people on the left who I admire and respect such as Michael Kinsley, Camille Paglia, even Maureen Dowd has some good insight to offer now and then. I have terribly missed William Raspberry since he retired. You won't find a Trump supporter in the group, but they for the most part engage in intellectual honesty that is sorely missing from most of the stuff coming from the left. Too many who once were rational people demonstrating critical thought have succumbed to the radical left and engage in that to keep what small audiences they have.

Pretty much the ONLY access to media that isn't radical left these days are a few small newspapers, conservative talk radio, Fox News and reading the objective and I believe essentially non partisan writers like the one who inspired the OP. (And the radical left is doing their damndest to find a way to shut down any media source who doesn't agree with them.)
The MSM is not controlled by the 'radical left'. It is owned by 6 large companies and basically controlled by a global corporate network.

Much of the MSM is controlled by those six billionaires. Those billionaires are globalists and members of the transnational capitalist class. This class not only controls most of our media, but also controls our central government.


Again you are probably right and a dishonest mostly leftist media and blatant efforts to silence anybody who disagrees with it or who supports anything not supported by the left is extremely dangerous to our nation and our liberties.

Unless all are allowed, even invited to express their opinions, however much we disagree with those opinions, we are doomed as a Democratic Republic founded on the principle of individual liberty. And no education happens at all. Only indoctrination.

The only reason censorship matters is that those people who don't watch Fox News, who don't listen to conservative talk radio, and/or don't read the very few conservative print publications left, have absolutely no accurate information on what is happening re the Mueller probe or the investigations currently in progress. Or why they are necessary.

I suspect a lot of this divisiveness promoted by the MSM and the two political parties is committed purposely. They want us divided so they can continue to line their pockets and steal ever greater political power.


Yes the permanent political class in Washington, GOP and Democrats, pretty much hate President Trump equally because he has no respect for the status quo and actually wants to accomplish and fix things, and that threatens their ability to use government to increase their power, influence, prestige, and personal wealth at our expense. Those who are Democrats feel much more free to express their hatred than those in the GOP though. The Democrats have to keep us divided to retain their power and most of the MSM is little more than a propaganda machine for the Democrat Party these days.

And so it goes.
 
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And the possible abuses of the FISA warrant system that seems to have triggered Mueller's investigation.

In the realm of fantasy, possible means it hasn't been proven but just is just a conspiracy repeated when nothing has been proven

Some formidable legal minds have seen those FISA warrants and say that without the now discredited Steele Dossier that was presented as credible evidence to the judge, the warrants would never have been issued as there was no cause to issue them. And Comey and company KNEW that dossier was unverified, salacious, and had been paid for by the opposition campaign and DNC. The judge was never told that.

The latest reports are that those warrants are in the process of being declassified, and the people who have been professionally and financially ruined by the Mueller investigation may have a really credible lawsuit if malfeasance is found. And it sure looks like it may be there.
 
And the possible abuses of the FISA warrant system that seems to have triggered Mueller's investigation.

In the realm of fantasy, possible means it hasn't been proven but just is just a conspiracy repeated when nothing has been proven

Some formidable legal minds have seen those FISA warrants and say that without the now discredited Steele Dossier that was presented as credible evidence to the judge, the warrants would never have been issued as there was no cause to issue them. And Comey and company KNEW that dossier was unverified, salacious, and had been paid for by the opposition campaign and DNC. The judge was never told that.

The latest reports are that those warrants are in the process of being declassified, and the people who have been professionally and financially ruined by the Mueller investigation may have a really credible lawsuit if malfeasance is found. And it sure looks like it may be there.

Definition of dossier


: a file containing detailed records on a particular person or subject the patient's medical dossier Police began compiling a dossier on him.

A dossier is just a collection of information gathered and are by its nature only allegations but is a tool used by all investigation from the Police to the FBI

there is nothing unusual about a dossier just because it is not common knowl

It is then up to the investigation authorities to prove if the information is true and find the evidence of a crime

Dossier

It says that Russians have been cultivating Trump for the last 5 years

Fact Trump wanted to meet Putin when the Miss Universe pageant was in Russia, Putin refused
The Trump Moscow deal
Trump has show an interest in doing business in Russia
Trump even offered a penthouse suite to Putin to sweeten the deal
Now since he is president They have meet twice for no apparent reason

Putin even said he wanted Trump to win in a interview conducted after the 2nd meet and greet
Russian meddling in the election in favor of Trump and the Putin says he wanted Trump to win

Yeah nothing suspicious about that except the Russians did meddle which favored Trump with the lost Hillary emails which was a hacking of other people email accounts by the Russian intelligence community

Dossier
golden showers and prostitutes will that has NOT been proven but we do know that Trump did cheat on his first wife and her replacement did not last long. He paid a few woman to be quite about sexual affairs. Still information if was true could be used to blackmail him.
Information needed to be proven false or true

He did say he like to grab woman by the P, but maybe he was talking about his wife or wives???????

It also says that his team accepted information from the Russians

Manfort gave polling data to the russians FACT

GP meet with russians FACT
Flynn meet with russians FACT
Sessions meet with russians FACT

The dossier also said that the Russians had a file on Clinton which is probably true as countries have intelligence operations

The email released was a hack done by the Russians for the sole benefit of Trump
The Russian spy who had was associated with the NRA
The Russians offered to meet with Trump team to give them info on Hillary and yeah it turned out they didn't

But Trump lied about it saying it was a meeting concerning adoption but later had to admit that it was to gain dirt on Hilary C

So except for the golden showers most info in this dossier has born out and members of Trump team have plead GUILTY

Now if you believe that Trump knew nothing about these things that his TOP people are do then WOW

Sounds like he either surrounded himself with incompetent people or he gave them the green light

surrounding yourself with incompetence breeds incompetence which comes from the top

giving the green light for shady deals is a MO that fits him especially when his fixer Cohen has worked for him for about 10 years. Cohen had no other clients once he devoted himself to Trump.

To say people did stuff without consulting Trump is saying Trump as a leader who has no control over his people or they are forced to cover up for him
 
And the possible abuses of the FISA warrant system that seems to have triggered Mueller's investigation.

In the realm of fantasy, possible means it hasn't been proven but just is just a conspiracy repeated when nothing has been proven

Some formidable legal minds have seen those FISA warrants and say that without the now discredited Steele Dossier that was presented as credible evidence to the judge, the warrants would never have been issued as there was no cause to issue them. And Comey and company KNEW that dossier was unverified, salacious, and had been paid for by the opposition campaign and DNC. The judge was never told that.

The latest reports are that those warrants are in the process of being declassified, and the people who have been professionally and financially ruined by the Mueller investigation may have a really credible lawsuit if malfeasance is found. And it sure looks like it may be there.

Definition of dossier


: a file containing detailed records on a particular person or subject the patient's medical dossier Police began compiling a dossier on him.

A dossier is just a collection of information gathered and are by its nature only allegations but is a tool used by all investigation from the Police to the FBI

there is nothing unusual about a dossier just because it is not common knowl

It is then up to the investigation authorities to prove if the information is true and find the evidence of a crime

Dossier

It says that Russians have been cultivating Trump for the last 5 years

Fact Trump wanted to meet Putin when the Miss Universe pageant was in Russia, Putin refused
The Trump Moscow deal
Trump has show an interest in doing business in Russia
Trump even offered a penthouse suite to Putin to sweeten the deal
Now since he is president They have meet twice for no apparent reason

Putin even said he wanted Trump to win in a interview conducted after the 2nd meet and greet
Russian meddling in the election in favor of Trump and the Putin says he wanted Trump to win

Yeah nothing suspicious about that except the Russians did meddle which favored Trump with the lost Hillary emails which was a hacking of other people email accounts by the Russian intelligence community

Dossier
golden showers and prostitutes will that has NOT been proven but we do know that Trump did cheat on his first wife and her replacement did not last long. He paid a few woman to be quite about sexual affairs. Still information if was true could be used to blackmail him.
Information needed to be proven false or true

He did say he like to grab woman by the P, but maybe he was talking about his wife or wives???????

It also says that his team accepted information from the Russians

Manfort gave polling data to the russians FACT

GP meet with russians FACT
Flynn meet with russians FACT
Sessions meet with russians FACT

The dossier also said that the Russians had a file on Clinton which is probably true as countries have intelligence operations

The email released was a hack done by the Russians for the sole benefit of Trump
The Russian spy who had was associated with the NRA
The Russians offered to meet with Trump team to give them info on Hillary and yeah it turned out they didn't

But Trump lied about it saying it was a meeting concerning adoption but later had to admit that it was to gain dirt on Hilary C

So except for the golden showers most info in this dossier has born out and members of Trump team have plead GUILTY

Now if you believe that Trump knew nothing about these things that his TOP people are do then WOW

Sounds like he either surrounded himself with incompetent people or he gave them the green light

surrounding yourself with incompetence breeds incompetence which comes from the top

giving the green light for shady deals is a MO that fits him especially when his fixer Cohen has worked for him for about 10 years. Cohen had no other clients once he devoted himself to Trump.

To say people did stuff without consulting Trump is saying Trump as a leader who has no control over his people or they are forced to cover up for him

Fact: none of the salacious stuff in the dossier has EVER been corroborated or confirmed by anybody. Steele himself had no confidence in it.

Fact: Thousands of Americans visit Russia every year on business and pleasure, and probably at least a few want to meet Putin. If President Trump asked to meet Putin--and I doubt there is any evidence that he did--there is zero wrong with that. We have full diplomatic relations with Russia and there is zero illegality in going there for any personal reason or requesting to meet the President or whatever Putin happens to be in any given year. Trying to make it look like collusion is laughable.

Fact: It is pretty indisputable that the Steele dossier was commissioned by the Clinton campaign through Fusion GPS as opposition research, i.e. to find or manufacture dirt on President Trump. Steele couldn't verify any of it. Nor did the FBI confirmed by Comey who said he told President Trump that it was largely salacious and unconfirmed. Nevertheless the FBI used the dossier in order to get multiple FISA warrants to spy on a member of the Trump campaign, and now it appears that the purpose was to spy on the campaign itself. They did not inform the FISA court that the dossier was salacious and unconfirmed nor did they inform it that it was ordered and paid for by the opposing campaign.

No honorable American should be okay with that.
 
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Mueller needs to send a letter of apology to Trump, he needs to apologize to The Big Kahuna, & all the American people for wasting their time & money.

Hey Bob, where's my f*cking letter?!

The worst accusations I have seen leveled against Mueller is his participation in what amounted to a bloodless coup of the government by attempting to illegally and maliciously destroy a lawfully elected and installed President of the United States.

If that is true, would a letter of apology be enough?

BULLSHIT! If he did that it's treason and treason is a capital offence. A letter of apology isn't going to make anyone stop and think twice before pulling that kind of shit again.
 
Mueller needs to send a letter of apology to Trump, he needs to apologize to The Big Kahuna, & all the American people for wasting their time & money.

Hey Bob, where's my f*cking letter?!

The worst accusations I have seen leveled against Mueller is his participation in what amounted to a bloodless coup of the government by attempting to illegally and maliciously destroy a lawfully elected and installed President of the United States.

If that is true, would a letter of apology be enough?

BULLSHIT! If he did that it's treason and treason is a capital offence. A letter of apology isn't going to make anyone stop and think twice before pulling that kind of shit again.

I was saying that rather tongue in cheek of course. It will all depend on whether the permanent political class on both sides of the aisle are able to bury or sidetrack all the rally damning evidence that is beginning to surface. And that evidence is not helping Mueller or the Democrats' case at all.
 
Those who have tried to be unbiased and objective in their analysis of current events re Trump, Russia, obstruction and all the extraneous stories that have come from that, have been particularly interested in Special Counsel Mueller's methods and motives.

So he concluded no Americans were culpable in any way with the real Russian effort to interfere with our elections. That would include the President.

But it seems obvious to a lot of us now that Mueller fully intended to nail President Trump with a crime. When he failed to do that he has resorted to most unprofessional obfusication and blatant suggestive innuendo which most likely would be to give the Democrats ammo to continue their efforts to take down a sitting President of the United States.

Note: having said that please spare us the whataboutisms re Clinton, Obama, etc. Let us focus on one issue at a time on the theory that two wrongs don't make a right or whatever.

One of the most insidious possible charges that may be true: Mueller knew a year ago that there was no evidence identifying President Trump or anybody else with the Russians. That should have been made public before the 2018 midterms. It was unconscionable that it was not.

In an essay in today's Real Clear Politics:

. . . Mueller should have known at least a year ago, and perhaps earlier, that Trump and his senior aides never cooperated with the Russians. He had a duty, Republicans say, to disclose that in a timely way to the American public. He failed in that duty, leaving an unnecessary cloud over Trump and impeding his presidency. Why? And why didn’t Rod Rosenstein, who was supervising the investigation for the Department of Justice, step in and resolve these issues?. . .

. . .Perhaps the worst self-inflicted damage was Mueller’s “not not guilty” statement about Trump. His exact quote: “If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so.” That statement is a frontal assault on the oldest, deepest principles of Western law:

  • No one has to prove their innocence; everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty, and that includes the president, Supreme Court nominees, and anyone else; and
  • Prosecutors should never pronounce guilt before a verdict or assert someone committed crimes or “bad acts” without charging them. Either charge a crime or shut up. Mueller missed an excellent opportunity to shut up.
In violating these fundamental legal principles, Mueller mirrored the infamous 2016 press conference by then-FBI Director James Comey, where he detailed Hillary Clinton’s (alleged) misdeeds and then declined to charge her. The charging decision should have been made by the DoJ, not the FBI, and the allegations should never have been mentioned unless they were charged. Comey’s press conference is an act that will live in infamy.​

Currently there are two investigations in progress re all this:

--misuse/abuse of the FISA court and warrants conducted by I.G. Michael Horowitz which will determine if key players instigating the investigation of the Trump campaign did that
and
--investigation of the origination of the Russia hoax investigation by Special Prosecutor John Durham that many hope will reveal political motivation, corruption, and malfeasance in the Russia investigation.

For sure those who are publicly accused and are innocent should be publicly exonerated. And those who are guilty should be exposed. I have become jaded and skeptical that those who misuse and abuse government powers for their own self interests will ever be brought to justice. But I hold at a glimmer of hope maybe?

Time will tell.

Anybody want to speculate on what the results will be? The poll is designed for multiple choice and for any who want to change their vote to do so.
^ wildly speculative, partisan opinion
... and still no Russian connection
 
And the possible abuses of the FISA warrant system that seems to have triggered Mueller's investigation.

In the realm of fantasy, possible means it hasn't been proven but just is just a conspiracy repeated when nothing has been proven

Some formidable legal minds have seen those FISA warrants and say that without the now discredited Steele Dossier that was presented as credible evidence to the judge, the warrants would never have been issued as there was no cause to issue them. And Comey and company KNEW that dossier was unverified, salacious, and had been paid for by the opposition campaign and DNC. The judge was never told that.

The latest reports are that those warrants are in the process of being declassified, and the people who have been professionally and financially ruined by the Mueller investigation may have a really credible lawsuit if malfeasance is found. And it sure looks like it may be there.

Definition of dossier


: a file containing detailed records on a particular person or subject the patient's medical dossier Police began compiling a dossier on him.

A dossier is just a collection of information gathered and are by its nature only allegations but is a tool used by all investigation from the Police to the FBI

there is nothing unusual about a dossier just because it is not common knowl

It is then up to the investigation authorities to prove if the information is true and find the evidence of a crime

Dossier

It says that Russians have been cultivating Trump for the last 5 years

Fact Trump wanted to meet Putin when the Miss Universe pageant was in Russia, Putin refused
The Trump Moscow deal
Trump has show an interest in doing business in Russia
Trump even offered a penthouse suite to Putin to sweeten the deal
Now since he is president They have meet twice for no apparent reason

Putin even said he wanted Trump to win in a interview conducted after the 2nd meet and greet
Russian meddling in the election in favor of Trump and the Putin says he wanted Trump to win

Yeah nothing suspicious about that except the Russians did meddle which favored Trump with the lost Hillary emails which was a hacking of other people email accounts by the Russian intelligence community

Dossier
golden showers and prostitutes will that has NOT been proven but we do know that Trump did cheat on his first wife and her replacement did not last long. He paid a few woman to be quite about sexual affairs. Still information if was true could be used to blackmail him.
Information needed to be proven false or true

He did say he like to grab woman by the P, but maybe he was talking about his wife or wives???????

It also says that his team accepted information from the Russians

Manfort gave polling data to the russians FACT

GP meet with russians FACT
Flynn meet with russians FACT
Sessions meet with russians FACT

The dossier also said that the Russians had a file on Clinton which is probably true as countries have intelligence operations

The email released was a hack done by the Russians for the sole benefit of Trump
The Russian spy who had was associated with the NRA
The Russians offered to meet with Trump team to give them info on Hillary and yeah it turned out they didn't

But Trump lied about it saying it was a meeting concerning adoption but later had to admit that it was to gain dirt on Hilary C

So except for the golden showers most info in this dossier has born out and members of Trump team have plead GUILTY

Now if you believe that Trump knew nothing about these things that his TOP people are do then WOW

Sounds like he either surrounded himself with incompetent people or he gave them the green light

surrounding yourself with incompetence breeds incompetence which comes from the top

giving the green light for shady deals is a MO that fits him especially when his fixer Cohen has worked for him for about 10 years. Cohen had no other clients once he devoted himself to Trump.

To say people did stuff without consulting Trump is saying Trump as a leader who has no control over his people or they are forced to cover up for him

Fact: none of the salacious stuff in the dossier has EVER been corroborated or confirmed by anybody. Steele himself had no confidence in it.

Fact: Thousands of Americans visit Russia every year on business and pleasure, and probably at least a few want to meet Putin. If President Trump asked to meet Putin--and I doubt there is any evidence that he did--there is zero wrong with that. We have full diplomatic relations with Russia and there is zero illegality in going there for any personal reason or requesting to meet the President or whatever Putin happens to be in any given year. Trying to make it look like collusion is laughable.

Fact: It is pretty indisputable that the Steele dossier was commissioned by the Clinton campaign through Fusion GPS as opposition research, i.e. to find or manufacture dirt on President Trump. Steele couldn't verify any of it. Nor did the FBI confirmed by Comey who said he told President Trump that it was largely salacious and unconfirmed. Nevertheless the FBI used the dossier in order to get multiple FISA warrants to spy on a member of the Trump campaign, and now it appears that the purpose was to spy on the campaign itself. They did not inform the FISA court that the dossier was salacious and unconfirmed nor did they inform it that it was ordered and paid for by the opposing campaign.

No honorable American should be okay with that.

During the 2016 campaign, the FBI investigated both Hillary Clinton and the Trump campaign. Yet the bureau only publicized the investigation into Clinton

yeah they had it out for Trump when days before the election they reopen the investigation into the missing emails

Yeah in the end they decided not prosecute, just because it didn't turn out the way repubs wanted it to does mean that it was the wrong decision

During the Republican primaries, a research firm called Fusion GPS was hired by The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website, to unearth potentially damaging information about Mr. Trump. The Free Beacon — which was funded by a major donor supporting Mr. Trump’s rival for the party’s nomination, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida — told Fusion GPS to stop doing research on Mr. Trump in May 2016 as soon as he clinched the nomination
 
And the possible abuses of the FISA warrant system that seems to have triggered Mueller's investigation.

In the realm of fantasy, possible means it hasn't been proven but just is just a conspiracy repeated when nothing has been proven

Some formidable legal minds have seen those FISA warrants and say that without the now discredited Steele Dossier that was presented as credible evidence to the judge, the warrants would never have been issued as there was no cause to issue them. And Comey and company KNEW that dossier was unverified, salacious, and had been paid for by the opposition campaign and DNC. The judge was never told that.

The latest reports are that those warrants are in the process of being declassified, and the people who have been professionally and financially ruined by the Mueller investigation may have a really credible lawsuit if malfeasance is found. And it sure looks like it may be there.

Definition of dossier


: a file containing detailed records on a particular person or subject the patient's medical dossier Police began compiling a dossier on him.

A dossier is just a collection of information gathered and are by its nature only allegations but is a tool used by all investigation from the Police to the FBI

there is nothing unusual about a dossier just because it is not common knowl

It is then up to the investigation authorities to prove if the information is true and find the evidence of a crime

Dossier

It says that Russians have been cultivating Trump for the last 5 years

Fact Trump wanted to meet Putin when the Miss Universe pageant was in Russia, Putin refused
The Trump Moscow deal
Trump has show an interest in doing business in Russia
Trump even offered a penthouse suite to Putin to sweeten the deal
Now since he is president They have meet twice for no apparent reason

Putin even said he wanted Trump to win in a interview conducted after the 2nd meet and greet
Russian meddling in the election in favor of Trump and the Putin says he wanted Trump to win

Yeah nothing suspicious about that except the Russians did meddle which favored Trump with the lost Hillary emails which was a hacking of other people email accounts by the Russian intelligence community

Dossier
golden showers and prostitutes will that has NOT been proven but we do know that Trump did cheat on his first wife and her replacement did not last long. He paid a few woman to be quite about sexual affairs. Still information if was true could be used to blackmail him.
Information needed to be proven false or true

He did say he like to grab woman by the P, but maybe he was talking about his wife or wives???????

It also says that his team accepted information from the Russians

Manfort gave polling data to the russians FACT

GP meet with russians FACT
Flynn meet with russians FACT
Sessions meet with russians FACT

The dossier also said that the Russians had a file on Clinton which is probably true as countries have intelligence operations

The email released was a hack done by the Russians for the sole benefit of Trump
The Russian spy who had was associated with the NRA
The Russians offered to meet with Trump team to give them info on Hillary and yeah it turned out they didn't

But Trump lied about it saying it was a meeting concerning adoption but later had to admit that it was to gain dirt on Hilary C

So except for the golden showers most info in this dossier has born out and members of Trump team have plead GUILTY

Now if you believe that Trump knew nothing about these things that his TOP people are do then WOW

Sounds like he either surrounded himself with incompetent people or he gave them the green light

surrounding yourself with incompetence breeds incompetence which comes from the top

giving the green light for shady deals is a MO that fits him especially when his fixer Cohen has worked for him for about 10 years. Cohen had no other clients once he devoted himself to Trump.

To say people did stuff without consulting Trump is saying Trump as a leader who has no control over his people or they are forced to cover up for him

Fact: none of the salacious stuff in the dossier has EVER been corroborated or confirmed by anybody. Steele himself had no confidence in it.

Fact: Thousands of Americans visit Russia every year on business and pleasure, and probably at least a few want to meet Putin. If President Trump asked to meet Putin--and I doubt there is any evidence that he did--there is zero wrong with that. We have full diplomatic relations with Russia and there is zero illegality in going there for any personal reason or requesting to meet the President or whatever Putin happens to be in any given year. Trying to make it look like collusion is laughable.

Fact: It is pretty indisputable that the Steele dossier was commissioned by the Clinton campaign through Fusion GPS as opposition research, i.e. to find or manufacture dirt on President Trump. Steele couldn't verify any of it. Nor did the FBI confirmed by Comey who said he told President Trump that it was largely salacious and unconfirmed. Nevertheless the FBI used the dossier in order to get multiple FISA warrants to spy on a member of the Trump campaign, and now it appears that the purpose was to spy on the campaign itself. They did not inform the FISA court that the dossier was salacious and unconfirmed nor did they inform it that it was ordered and paid for by the opposing campaign.

No honorable American should be okay with that.

During the 2016 campaign, the FBI investigated both Hillary Clinton and the Trump campaign. Yet the bureau only publicized the investigation into Clinton

yeah they had it out for Trump when days before the election they reopen the investigation into the missing emails

Yeah in the end they decided not prosecute, just because it didn't turn out the way repubs wanted it to does mean that it was the wrong decision

During the Republican primaries, a research firm called Fusion GPS was hired by The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website, to unearth potentially damaging information about Mr. Trump. The Free Beacon — which was funded by a major donor supporting Mr. Trump’s rival for the party’s nomination, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida — told Fusion GPS to stop doing research on Mr. Trump in May 2016 as soon as he clinched the nomination

Well they obviously didn't stop did they. They just worked for the Democrats. :)
 
It has been fascinating to me that we had leak after leak after leak re the Mueller investigation as the media seemed to be fully informed of who was being interviewed, who was under suspicion, what was being looked at etc. etc. CNN was even on hand with reporters and cameras for that positively unconscionable stupid FBI raid in the wee hours of the morning on Roger Stone's home.

But nary a tweet, headline, or comment on the IG's investigation or Special Counsel Durham's investigation now that they are looking at the other side.
 
Mueller had 37 indictments and took Trump’s felons off the street and off the Government payroll. He is owed a debt of gratitude by all Americans.
 
Those who have tried to be unbiased and objective in their analysis of current events re Trump, Russia, obstruction and all the extraneous stories that have come from that, have been particularly interested in Special Counsel Mueller's methods and motives.

So he concluded no Americans were culpable in any way with the real Russian effort to interfere with our elections. That would include the President.

But it seems obvious to a lot of us now that Mueller fully intended to nail President Trump with a crime. When he failed to do that he has resorted to most unprofessional obfusication and blatant suggestive innuendo which most likely would be to give the Democrats ammo to continue their efforts to take down a sitting President of the United States.

Note: having said that please spare us the whataboutisms re Clinton, Obama, etc. Let us focus on one issue at a time on the theory that two wrongs don't make a right or whatever.

One of the most insidious possible charges that may be true: Mueller knew a year ago that there was no evidence identifying President Trump or anybody else with the Russians. That should have been made public before the 2018 midterms. It was unconscionable that it was not.

In an essay in today's Real Clear Politics:

. . . Mueller should have known at least a year ago, and perhaps earlier, that Trump and his senior aides never cooperated with the Russians. He had a duty, Republicans say, to disclose that in a timely way to the American public. He failed in that duty, leaving an unnecessary cloud over Trump and impeding his presidency. Why? And why didn’t Rod Rosenstein, who was supervising the investigation for the Department of Justice, step in and resolve these issues?. . .

. . .Perhaps the worst self-inflicted damage was Mueller’s “not not guilty” statement about Trump. His exact quote: “If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so.” That statement is a frontal assault on the oldest, deepest principles of Western law:

  • No one has to prove their innocence; everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty, and that includes the president, Supreme Court nominees, and anyone else; and
  • Prosecutors should never pronounce guilt before a verdict or assert someone committed crimes or “bad acts” without charging them. Either charge a crime or shut up. Mueller missed an excellent opportunity to shut up.
In violating these fundamental legal principles, Mueller mirrored the infamous 2016 press conference by then-FBI Director James Comey, where he detailed Hillary Clinton’s (alleged) misdeeds and then declined to charge her. The charging decision should have been made by the DoJ, not the FBI, and the allegations should never have been mentioned unless they were charged. Comey’s press conference is an act that will live in infamy.​

Currently there are two investigations in progress re all this:

--misuse/abuse of the FISA court and warrants conducted by I.G. Michael Horowitz which will determine if key players instigating the investigation of the Trump campaign did that
and
--investigation of the origination of the Russia hoax investigation by Special Prosecutor John Durham that many hope will reveal political motivation, corruption, and malfeasance in the Russia investigation.

For sure those who are publicly accused and are innocent should be publicly exonerated. And those who are guilty should be exposed. I have become jaded and skeptical that those who misuse and abuse government powers for their own self interests will ever be brought to justice. But I hold at a glimmer of hope maybe?

Time will tell.

Anybody want to speculate on what the results will be? The poll is designed for multiple choice and for any who want to change their vote to do so.
^ wildly speculative, partisan opinion

She’s a classic example of someone who can’t smell her own bullshit.
 
Those who have tried to be unbiased and objective in their analysis of current events re Trump, Russia, obstruction and all the extraneous stories that have come from that, have been particularly interested in Special Counsel Mueller's methods and motives.

So he concluded no Americans were culpable in any way with the real Russian effort to interfere with our elections. That would include the President.

But it seems obvious to a lot of us now that Mueller fully intended to nail President Trump with a crime. When he failed to do that he has resorted to most unprofessional obfusication and blatant suggestive innuendo which most likely would be to give the Democrats ammo to continue their efforts to take down a sitting President of the United States.

Note: having said that please spare us the whataboutisms re Clinton, Obama, etc. Let us focus on one issue at a time on the theory that two wrongs don't make a right or whatever.

One of the most insidious possible charges that may be true: Mueller knew a year ago that there was no evidence identifying President Trump or anybody else with the Russians. That should have been made public before the 2018 midterms. It was unconscionable that it was not.

In an essay in today's Real Clear Politics:

. . . Mueller should have known at least a year ago, and perhaps earlier, that Trump and his senior aides never cooperated with the Russians. He had a duty, Republicans say, to disclose that in a timely way to the American public. He failed in that duty, leaving an unnecessary cloud over Trump and impeding his presidency. Why? And why didn’t Rod Rosenstein, who was supervising the investigation for the Department of Justice, step in and resolve these issues?. . .

. . .Perhaps the worst self-inflicted damage was Mueller’s “not not guilty” statement about Trump. His exact quote: “If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so.” That statement is a frontal assault on the oldest, deepest principles of Western law:

  • No one has to prove their innocence; everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty, and that includes the president, Supreme Court nominees, and anyone else; and
  • Prosecutors should never pronounce guilt before a verdict or assert someone committed crimes or “bad acts” without charging them. Either charge a crime or shut up. Mueller missed an excellent opportunity to shut up.
In violating these fundamental legal principles, Mueller mirrored the infamous 2016 press conference by then-FBI Director James Comey, where he detailed Hillary Clinton’s (alleged) misdeeds and then declined to charge her. The charging decision should have been made by the DoJ, not the FBI, and the allegations should never have been mentioned unless they were charged. Comey’s press conference is an act that will live in infamy.​

Currently there are two investigations in progress re all this:

--misuse/abuse of the FISA court and warrants conducted by I.G. Michael Horowitz which will determine if key players instigating the investigation of the Trump campaign did that
and
--investigation of the origination of the Russia hoax investigation by Special Prosecutor John Durham that many hope will reveal political motivation, corruption, and malfeasance in the Russia investigation.

For sure those who are publicly accused and are innocent should be publicly exonerated. And those who are guilty should be exposed. I have become jaded and skeptical that those who misuse and abuse government powers for their own self interests will ever be brought to justice. But I hold at a glimmer of hope maybe?

Time will tell.

Anybody want to speculate on what the results will be? The poll is designed for multiple choice and for any who want to change their vote to do so.
^ wildly speculative, partisan opinion

She’s a classic example of someone who can’t smell her own bullshit.

Projection sweet pea.
 

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