Muslims are our friends but Islam is the enemy of Western Civilization?

[gautama]

Too funny.

Isn't it?
That is why you are always quoting scripture... and linking to scripture and ..... and what?

What is it you do exactly ?

Oh yeah say....., I dont know anything about Islam.

Well lets say I dont know anything about Islam .Lets start there..




You explain what part of this statement you disagree with

“Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established,

Allah’s Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam is propagated. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish.

Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies as a hypocrite.”

He's already told you Mr. Fitnah.

Kalam's interpretation of Jihad is too complex to assign any single label of event to such a thing and claim that is all it means. I've talked with him before.

Jihad to one interpretation is holy war in a physical sense. This is why so many die on Islam's holiest days. That interpretation predates any attack on Islam.

But, there's no fighting Kalams extension logically Mr. Fitnah. It passes the logic tables for truth in that it can not be disproven and it can be broken down to a simple equation.

Jihad, defined as a human struggle on a spiritual journey to bring peace to the human soul and which is [at this point in time] being interpreted (by some) as a physical journey in which a physical defeat of <insert ideological NOT spiritual path>.

I use the realities of what happens today to temper my own interpretations of what the hay is going on right now.

And this is where I believe the above interpretation on a spiritual level loses. It loses to the reality on the ground at this moment.

The word peace to Western philosophy is not that complicated. Islam has another meaning for peace. They are not the same. It is made complicated to disguise its real meaning.

Islam is peace by Islamic terms.

Peace in Islam is to be free from war. Free from war is to submit to the natural will of Allah.

To be at peace is to be under the will of Muslims who submit to the will of Allah. In other words, when the world is under the will of Allah and all Muslims submitting to Allah with all others under the will of those Muslims, then the world is under peace.

We won't get into what happens to those who are under the will of those who are submitting to Allah.

Other than that, the definitions change due to ideologies, and you could argue with Kalam all night and day, but you could not do more than counter with the reality of today which is countered by the view is that the interpretation is at fault, not the book.

There's no win here. Not in the sense of the ebb and flow in multi generational movements of man. It has its own life and we are simply holding on. Every once and a while an anomaly pops up and the quick catch it.

Which is what I said at the beginning of this thread. There's no master plan. Yes, there's a militant side to Islam. There was to Judaism. There was (and in some places is) to Christianity.

But that doesn't discount that the problem is the interpretation. One must needs visit the side that is prominent at this time and not the enlightened interpretation which is belied by all the Islamic violence in the world.

So, that's why I stay in the reality of the moment. It's all we have until we are gone.

We can see what is happening in the moment. If I move into my head and focus on spiritual enlightenment.

Then I want my ass protected.

That has much meaning to me!

Ropey states:

"To be at peace is to be under the will of Muslims who submit to the will of Allah. In other words, when the world is under the will of Allah and all Muslims submitting to Allah with all others under the will of those Muslims, then the world is under peace."

Ropey is exactly correct.

Obamarrhoidal Libturds never miss a chance to apologize to the fucking Muslims, or interpret murky Muslim activities, including blatant travesties with ready pro-Muslim type "interpretations.

Gaggles of LIEberrhoids were/are known to join the MuslimArseLicking chorus of singing praise to Islam.....Islam being the "Religion of Peace".

This the Libtards did by adoring one of the most Jihadist Arseholes the Muslims had, i.e., quoting Sayyid Qutb (1906 - 1966) because this shithead was known to declare in the media that "Islam is the Religion of Peace."

I suppose that the usual slipshod attitude towards confirming "facts" by the LibTURDS is underlined by the fact that Sayyid Qutb's idea of "peace", when researched, was exactly what Ropey stated. This arsehole Sayyid Qutb was a proponent of extreme violence in order to achieve Quran's Primary Instruction (paraphrased): Make the World he Caliphate of Islam preferably by word.....by SWORD if necessary.

To Sayyid Qutb "Islam as a Religion of Peace" meant that when Islam became established as the World's only or dominating Religion, then there would be peace.

 

[Kalam]

Isn't it?

It's more sad than anything.

You explain what part of this statement you disagree with

Alright.

&#8220;Jihad is holy fighting in Allah&#8217;s Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry.

This is incorrect. "Jihad" in Islam is used to denote striving in the broadest sense, which may include but isn't limited to fighting. For example:

And We have enjoined on man goodness to his parents, but if they both strive against you (jahadaka) to make you associate with Me that of which you have no knowledge, do not obey either of them... - 29:8

It is related that 'A'isha, Umm al-Mu'minin, said, "Messenger of Allah, may we go on ghazawat (battles) and do jihad with you?" He said, "But the best and most excellent jihad is hajj (pilgrimage to Makkah) - an accepted hajj." 'A'isha said, "I will not abandon hajj after hearing this from the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace." - Bukhari​

It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars.

It is related from Ibn 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Islam is based on five [principles]: (1) the testifying that there is no god except Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; (2) establishing prayer; (3) paying the zakah; (4) the Hajj; (5) and the fast of Ramadan. - Bukhari​

I have not seen fighting mentioned as one of the principles of the faith in sahih ahadith. Fighting in Allah's cause when necessary is a duty of central importance, but not to the extent that the so-called "pillars" of the faith are.

Allah&#8217;s Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped),

Non-Muslims under Shari'ah may continue worshiping other, false deities with the protection of the Islamic state provided that the jizyah is paid by all males of fighting age:

And insult not those whom they invoke other than Allah, lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made fair-seeming to every community their deed. Then to their Lord is their return, then he will inform them about what they used to do. - 6:108

Anas reported: "The Messenger of Allah (SAWS) wrote to the people of Yemen, 'Whoever is adamant upon Judaism or Christianity will not be tormented for it, and he is obliged to pay the jizya.'" - Bukhari​

The pact of protection today can be extended to all non-Muslims rather than only to Jews and Christians; this is evidenced by the fact that the dhimma was extended by Muhammad (SAWS) and the successors (RA) to Zoroastrians and polytheists in places like Bahrain and Persia. Only the polytheistic Arabs of the peninsula were not allowed to enter the pact due to their history of relentless oppression and betrayal of the early Ummah.

The rights of the people of the dhimma are safeguarded by the Muslims in accordance with the words and actions of Muhammad (SAWS) and the rightly-guided successors (RA):

'Ali (RA) said: "They (the people of the dhimma) have accepted our protection only so their lives can be like our lives and their properties like our properties - Abu Dawud

The Messenger of Allah (SAWS) said: "He who harms a person under covenant (dhimma), or charges him more than he can [afford] -- I will argue against him on the Day of Judgement." - Reported by Yahya ibn Adam, Kitab al-Kharaj

The Messenger of Allah (SAWS) said: "He who hurts a dhimmi hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys Allah." - Reported by At-Tabarani


The Messenger of Allah (SAWS) said: "The diyyah (blood money) of the Jews and Christians is like (equal to) the Muslim&#8217;s diyyah." - Reported by Amru ibn Shuaib

Al-Bayhaqi reported that "the Messenger of Allah killed a Muslim for [killing] a mu'ahid (a disbeliever living outside of the Islamic State) and said, 'I am the most noble of those who fulfill their dhimma.'" - from the hadith of 'Abd ur-Rahman al-Bailimani​

The state also provides for their economic well-being:

'Umar ibn al-Khattab (RA) once passed by an old dhimmi begging at doors and said, "We have not done justice to you if we have taken jizyah from you in the prime of your youth and neglected you in your old age." He then ordered from the treasury what was suitable for him. - Reported by Abu 'Ubayd in the Kitab al-Amwal​

Regarding the jizyah, I mentioned previously that it is paid only by mature males from among the people of the dhimma and is not taken from women, children, the elderly, or the poor. The rate of taxation depends on the prosperity of the taxpayer and nobody can be overburdened financially. The process of taxpaying must also not be a humiliating affair for the people of the dhimma, contrary to what some people seem to believe.

Narrated Abu Najeeh: "I said to Mujahid: 'What is the matter with the people of Ash-Sham, who pay 4 Dinars (in taxation while) the people of Yemen pay 1 Dinar?' He said, 'This was decided based on prosperity.'" - Bukhari

"I saw 'Umar four nights before he was assassinated sitting on top a camel, saying to Hudhayfa ibn al-Yaman and 'Uthman ibn al-Hunayf, 'Review the affairs under your charge. Do you think that you have burdened the tenants with what they cannot bear?' 'Uthman replied, 'I have levied on them an amount that I could double and they would still have the ability to pay.' Hudhayfa said: 'I have imposed on them an amount that leaves a large surplus.'" - Reported by 'Amr ibn Maymun

"'Umar ibn al-Khattab was brought a huge amount of wealth &#8211; I believe, he said, 'Of jizya' &#8211; and he said, 'I think you must have placed the people in hardship (for such wealth).' They (his subordinates) said, 'No, by Allah, we did not collect anything that was not given voluntarily and of their own free will.' He said, 'Without using a stick [to hit them] and without stringing [them up]?' They said, 'Yes.' He said, 'Praise be to Allah, who has not caused this to happen at my hands or during my authority.'" - Reported by Abu 'Ubayd in the Kitab al-Amwal​

Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies as a hypocrite.&#8221;

Assuming the author is still using jihad to refer solely to "holy war", this is incorrect. The Qur'an states explicitly that the infirm are in no way expected to participate in fighting, and various ahadith make it clear that women are exempted as well, along with children and the elderly (obviously.) Women may participate in armed conflict if they so wish, however, following the example of those such as Nusaybah bint Ka'ab, who fought alongside the Prophet (SAWS).

This Hizb ut-Tahrir affiliated website provides more information about the dhimma and the Caliphate in general:

http://khilafah.com/index.php/the-khilafah/non-muslims/499-dhimmi-non-muslims-living-in-the-khilafah

 

[gautama]

So you are saying that in most predominantly Islamic countries I can open a church, put a cross and sign on it, and invite all the neighbors to come?

Depends on the country.

Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, and others, have both Christian and Jewish houses of worship.

Phoni-Baloni-Sunni,

But not in Saudi Arabia....and probably a few other Muslim countries. And Saudi Arabia with its Mecca & Medina are supposedly the SHOWCASES for your Religion of Supremacy and Camelshit.

 

[Sunni Man]

And Saudi Arabia with its Mecca & Medina are supposedly the SHOWCASES for your Religion

Who told you that?

 

[gautama]

And Saudi Arabia with its Mecca & Medina are supposedly the SHOWCASES for your Religion

Who told you that?

Fucking Allah.

 

[Ropey]

 

[Sunni Man]

So what?

Christians say that if you don't believe in Jesus as God.

You will not go to heaven.

 

[Ropey]

So what?

Christians say that if you don't believe in Jesus as God.

You will not go to heaven.

They must submit to the will of those Muslims who submit to the will of Allah.

Where is that in Christianity Sunni Man?

Where are Christians requiring Muslims to submit to them because they are superior since they submit to Jesus and his father?

 

[Sunni Man]

Read the verses you posted Ropey.

As your hatred has forced you to read things that the text doesn't say.


They say nothing about Christian or anyone else submitting to muslims.

The verses only say that if a person rejects Allah; they will be denied heaven when they die.

Which is exactly what Christians say about Jesus and heaven.

 

[Ropey]

Some Muslim scholars reject the claim that Islam was spread by the sword, on the grounds that the 'third choice' was offered to conquered peoples. Here Major Hasan also cites the famous verse which states that there is no compulsion in religion. The main interpretation of this verse, in the light of 9:29 discussed above, is that it is not right to compel Jews and Christians (and others) who have taken the 'third choice' to convert to Islam.

Click

The Meaning of Mu'min, or Believer

`Ali bin Abi Talhah narrated from Ibn `Abbas, about,

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(Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day) that Allah revealed the following Ayah afterwards,

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(And whoever seeks religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers) (3:85).

This statement by Ibn `Abbas indicates that Allah does not accept any deed or work from anyone, unless it conforms to the Law of Muhammad that is, after Allah sent Muhammad . Before that, every person who followed the guidance of his own Prophet was on the correct path, following the correct guidance and was saved.

Click

 

[Kalam]

You're treating Nidal Malik Hassan as an authority on the Islamic religion? Now you're just embarrassing yourself.

 

[Sunni Man]

Typical Zionist response to getting caught in a blatant lie.

Ignore that you were busted and change the subject.

 

[Ropey]

He believes....

You say he does not?

 

[Ropey]

You're treating Nidal Malik Hassan as an authority on the Islamic religion? Now you're just embarrassing yourself.

And you run from every Muslim that kills innocents in the name of Allah pretending that they are not an authority, so what they do can not be attached to Muslim extremism.

Because you state there's no such thing as personal liability to religious choice in Islam?

 

[Kalam]

And you run from every Muslim that kills innocents in the name of Allah pretending that they are not an authority, so what they do can not be attached to Muslim extremism.

"Pretending they are not an authority..."

From which teacher or institution did he receive his ijaazah?

 

[Ropey]

And you run from every Muslim that kills innocents in the name of Allah pretending that they are not an authority, so what they do can not be attached to Muslim extremism.

"Pretending they are not an authority..."

From which teacher or institution did he receive his ijaazah?

Squirm all you want. In the West we have something called personal authority, and Major Hassan was a citizen under that personal authority as well as a Military man under the authority of the American military.

He killed American innocents, the ones he was under oath to protect under that personal authority.

You know the one. The one you say does not exist so he is simply acting alone and Islam is the religion of Western Peace?

Yeah, right.

 

[Sunni Man]

You're treating Nidal Malik Hassan as an authority on the Islamic religion? Now you're just embarrassing yourself.

And you run from every Muslim that kills innocents in the name of Allah pretending that they are not an authority, so what they do can not be attached to Muslim extremism.

So by your logic Ropey.

This man was an authority on Judiasm.

"The Cave of the Patriarchs massacre occurred when Baruch Goldstein opened fire on unarmed Palestinian Muslims praying inside the Ibrahim Mosque (or Mosque of Abraham) at the Cave of the Patriarchs site in Hebron in the West Bank. It took place on February 25, 1994, during the overlapping religious holidays of Purim and Ramadan. 29 worshippers were killed and 125 wounded. The attack ended when Goldstein had expended his ammunition."

Cave of the Patriarchs massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Kalam]

Squirm all you want.

"Squirm?" You're acting as if a man with zero religious credentials is some sort of religious authority, so expect to be called out for making such laughable insinuations. Bringing attention to the silliness of your argument can't accurately be described as "squirming" on my part, but you know that.

In the West we have something called personal authority, and Major Hassan was a citizen under that personal authority.

He killed innocents, under that personal authority.

And you maintain (baselessly, of course) that his actions and words must reflect the teachings of the religion of Islam. It's becoming clear that your goal is to spout venom and propaganda -- not to engage in any sort of discourse.

You know the one. The one you say does not exist so he is simply acting alone and Islam is the religion of Western Peace?

I haven't a clue what you're referring to with "Western Peace" and have never made such a statement. Keep being dishonest, though; it really highlights the ridiculousness of your posts.

 

[Ropey]

You're treating Nidal Malik Hassan as an authority on the Islamic religion? Now you're just embarrassing yourself.

And you run from every Muslim that kills innocents in the name of Allah pretending that they are not an authority, so what they do can not be attached to Muslim extremism.

So by your logic Ropey.

This man was an authority on Judiasm.

"The Cave of the Patriarchs massacre occurred when Baruch Goldstein opened fire on unarmed Palestinian Muslims praying inside the Ibrahim Mosque (or Mosque of Abraham) at the Cave of the Patriarchs site in Hebron in the West Bank. It took place on February 25, 1994, during the overlapping religious holidays of Purim and Ramadan. 29 worshippers were killed and 125 wounded. The attack ended when Goldstein had expended his ammunition."

Cave of the Patriarchs massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An authority enough to take the personal responsibility that he says all Muslims have.

No more.

You run to attack Jews in a thread about Muslims and Islam?

LOL - Always the Jews. All thirteen million of us. LOL

Is that all you have?

It's not much. All these Islamic events killing innocents worldwide is simply just 'happening'.

No connection and no attachment to Islam.

You can say that. I don't believe you.

You run to attack Jews in a thread about Muslims and Islam?

Because you and Kalam have lost the discussion when you move off the topic onto something that has no connection to the discussio,n Kalam and Sunni Man.

Muslims are our friends but Islam is the enemy of Western Civilization?

Remember?

Time to take my flight back to Canada.

Later...

 

[Sunni Man]

Because you and Kalam have lost the discussion when you move off the topic onto something that has no connection to the discussio,

Which is exactly what you did when you wrecked the thread "Besa: Muslims Who Saved Jews in World War II"

By going off topic with personal attacks and posting all kind of nonsense to derail the thread.

You are a liar and a joke Ropey.

And every one here can easily see it.