Muslims are our friends but Islam is the enemy of Western Civilization?

[Ropey]

Because you and Kalam have lost the discussion when you move off the topic onto something that has no connection to the discussio,

Which is exactly what you did when you wrecked the thread "Besa: Muslims Who Saved Jews in World War II"

By going off topic with personal attacks and posting all kind of nonsense to derail the thread.

You are a liar and a joke Ropey.

And every one here can easily see it.

That thread was about Muslims and Jews.

I attacked your views of Muslims and Jews.

However, this thread is about Muslims and Christians.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

It is related from Ibn 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Islam is based on five [principles]: (1) the testifying that there is no god except Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; (2) establishing prayer; (3) paying the zakah; (4) the Hajj; (5) and the fast of Ramadan. - Bukhari​

I have not seen fighting mentioned as one of the principles of the faith in sahih ahadith. Fighting in Allah's cause when necessary is a duty of central importance, but not to the extent that the so-called "pillars" of the faith are.

Sixth Pillar of Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Pillars_of_Islam_(Ismaili)

Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad)
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 52 :: Hadith 44
Narrated Abu Huraira:

A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, "Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward)." He replied, "I do not find such a deed." Then he added, "Can you, while the Muslim fighter is in the battle-field, enter your mosque to perform prayers without cease and fast and never break your fast?" The man said, "But who can do that?" Abu- Huraira added, "The Mujahid (i.e. Muslim fighter) is rewarded even for the footsteps of his horse while it wanders bout (for grazing) tied in a long rope."

Clearly fighting is giving higher religious value in Islam then at least 2 of its pillars.
Kalam

Yak Yak yak

The Book of Faith (Kitab Al-Iman)
Muslim :: Book 1 : Hadith 33
It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.

 

[Sunni Man]

However, this thread is about Muslims and Christians.

Then what are you doing here??

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I forgot to add Mohammad is an example for all muslims to follow.

The Book of Faith (Kitab Al-Iman)
Muslim :: Book 1 : Hadith 33
It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.

 

[Sunni Man]

Mr, Fitnuts, until you brought it up.

I had never heard of a 6th Pillar of Islam.

Every Imam I have ever heard speak only says that there are only 5 Pillars of Islam.

And very book I have ever see in the Mosque library says that there are only 5 Pillars of Islam.

Even the site you posted starts off with:

"Most Sunni Muslims believe there are precisely five Pillars of Islam, and the idea of there being more than five pillars is not a mainstream idea; Sunni leaders have taught that there are only five major pillars of the faith. Traditionalists say that no 6th pillar should be added, because changing the pillars would be altering the religion and its beliefs, and so one who believes that there is a sixth is committing a sin."

Sixth Pillar of Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Mr, Fitnuts, until you brought it up.

I had never heard of a 6th Pillar of Islam.

Every Imam I have ever heard speak only says that there are only 5 Pillars of Islam.

And very book I have ever see in the Mosque library says that there are only 5 Pillars of Islam.

Even the site you posted starts off with:

"Most Sunni Muslims believe there are precisely five Pillars of Islam, and the idea of there being more than five pillars is not a mainstream idea; Sunni leaders have taught that there are only five major pillars of the faith. Traditionalists say that no 6th pillar should be added, because changing the pillars would be altering the religion and its beliefs, and so one who believes that there is a sixth is committing a sin."

Sixth Pillar of Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I understand that , there are more enlightened views on Islam .

 

[Sunni Man]

I understand that , there are more enlightened views on Islam .

So you are saying that posting nonsense about Islam is somehow an enlightened view?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I understand that , there are more enlightened views on Islam .

So you are saying that posting nonsense about Islam is somehow an enlightened view?

Not in your case.

 

[Sunni Man]

I understand that , there are more enlightened views on Islam .

So you are saying that posting nonsense about Islam is somehow an enlightened view?

Not in your case.

I am overwhelmed; Thank you for the compliment.

 

[gautama]

Because you and Kalam have lost the discussion when you move off the topic onto something that has no connection to the discussio,

Which is exactly what you did when you wrecked the thread "Besa: Muslims Who Saved Jews in World War II"

By going off topic with personal attacks and posting all kind of nonsense to derail the thread.

You are a liar and a joke Ropey.

And every one here can easily see it.

I am not a Jew, or even a Christian.

I see the opposite, you Muslim Piece of Shit......and I would bet everything I have (and that's quite a bit) that the overwhelming number of posters who are not Muslim Arseholes......would vote against you fucking Muslims. Especially after reading this thread.

 

[Sunni Man]

......and I would bet everything I have (and that's quite a bit)

Seriously gautama, your half full bottle of MD 20/20 and a shopping cart full of aluminum cans you push around isn't alot by most people's standards.

 

[Kalam]

A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, "Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward)." He replied, "I do not find such a deed." Then he added, "Can you, while the Muslim fighter is in the battle-field, enter your mosque to perform prayers without cease and fast and never break your fast?" The man said, "But who can do that?" Abu- Huraira added, "The Mujahid (i.e. Muslim fighter) is rewarded even for the footsteps of his horse while it wanders bout (for grazing) tied in a long rope."

Clearly fighting is giving higher religious value in Islam then at least 2 of its pillars.
Kalam

Yak Yak yak

The Book of Faith (Kitab Al-Iman)
Muslim :: Book 1 : Hadith 33
It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.

I understand that you're not intelligent enough to realize this, but your genocide fantasies are wholly inconsistent with the concept of the dhimma, which (as we've now seen) is a universally recognized institution supported by volumes of evidence from the Prophet (SAWS) and the Successors (RA). I am not surprised that you attempted to draw attention away from this fact by making no mention of the evidences in your post. You fail again.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, "Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward)." He replied, "I do not find such a deed." Then he added, "Can you, while the Muslim fighter is in the battle-field, enter your mosque to perform prayers without cease and fast and never break your fast?" The man said, "But who can do that?" Abu- Huraira added, "The Mujahid (i.e. Muslim fighter) is rewarded even for the footsteps of his horse while it wanders bout (for grazing) tied in a long rope."

Clearly fighting is giving higher religious value in Islam then at least 2 of its pillars.
Kalam

Yak Yak yak

The Book of Faith (Kitab Al-Iman)
Muslim :: Book 1 : Hadith 33
It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.

I understand that you're not intelligent enough to realize this, but your genocide fantasies are wholly inconsistent with the concept of the dhimma, which (as we've now seen) is a universally recognized institution supported by volumes of evidence from the Prophet (SAWS) and the Successors (RA). I am not surprised that you attempted to draw attention away from this fact by making no mention of the evidences in your post. You fail again.

Please tell ,who pays zakat?
Who claims Mohammad is a messenger of god.

Only muslims.
Dont blame me for Islam inconsistencies.

 

[Kalam]

Please tell ,who pays zakat?
Who claims Mohammad is a messenger of god.

Only muslims.
Dont blame me for Islam inconsistencies.

I blame you for nothing but your own stupidity and presumptuousness.

Your rendering does not account for the definite article which makes it clear that "the people" doesn't refer to people in general.

Ibn Taymiyyah:

It refers to fighting those who are waging war, whom Allah has permitted us to fight. It does not refer to those who have a covenant with us with whom Allah commands us to fulfill our covenant. - Majmu al-Fatawa, 19/20​

Don't blame Islam for your failure to understand it.

 

[gautama]

......and I would bet everything I have (and that's quite a bit)

Seriously gautama, your half full bottle of MD 20/20 and a shopping cart full of aluminum cans you push around isn't alot by most people's standards.

Let's consider the source of that inane remark, which is definitely below par on all levels: The source is Phoni-Baloni- Sunni who is a certified PHONEY BALONEY. The thread irrefutably proves that assertion.

This Fanatical Muslim Arsehole fancies himself a "MODERATE" when in REALITY he is "Religiously insane".

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Please tell ,who pays zakat?
Who claims Mohammad is a messenger of god.

Only muslims.
Dont blame me for Islam inconsistencies.

I blame you for nothing but your own stupidity and presumptuousness.

Your rendering does not account for the definite article which makes it clear that "the people" doesn't refer to people in general.

Ibn Taymiyyah:

It refers to fighting those who are waging war, whom Allah has permitted us to fight. It does not refer to those who have a covenant with us with whom Allah commands us to fulfill our covenant. - Majmu al-Fatawa, 19/20​

Don't blame Islam for your failure to understand it.

Since you are in such a chatty mood would you explain the part in bold.

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do. (Al-Anfal 8:39)

 

[Kalam]

Since you are in such a chatty mood would you explain the part in bold.

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do. (Al-Anfal 8:39)

The word used is deen, which can be rendered more accurately as "way" and refers in this context to to the entire Islamic system. In other words, it should be the goal of Muslims to fight those with whom fighting is permissible until the Islamic system alone is established entirely. I have already discussed how it is possible to live within this system as a non-Muslim.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Since you are in such a chatty mood would you explain the part in bold.

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do. (Al-Anfal 8:39)

The word used is deen, which can be rendered more accurately as "way" and refers in this context to to the entire Islamic system. In other words, it should be the goal of Muslims to fight those with whom fighting is permissible until the Islamic system alone is established entirely. I have already discussed how it is possible to live within this system as a non-Muslim.

And if people do not wish to submit to living under and Islamic system?

 

[Kalam]

Since you are in such a chatty mood would you explain the part in bold.

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do. (Al-Anfal 8:39)

The word used is deen, which can be rendered more accurately as "way" and refers in this context to to the entire Islamic system. In other words, it should be the goal of Muslims to fight those with whom fighting is permissible until the Islamic system alone is established entirely. I have already discussed how it is possible to live within this system as a non-Muslim.

And if people do not wish to submit to living under and Islamic system?

That depends. If a person is within the Khilafah as a mu'ahid (non-Muslim citizen of a country that shares a treaty with the khilafah) or a must'amin (passport/visa-bearing citizen of a country with no treaty) then they are only required to observe the laws for the duration of their visit. If they stay for more than a year, however, it is assumed that they will remain there permanently and they enter into the dhimma unless there are extenuating circumstances. Foreign dignitaries have diplomatic immunity. If a person is part of a defeated population with which the Muslims had been at war, they will be expected to abide by the laws like everyone else. Obviously, then, they will be punished like everyone else if they break those laws.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

DHIMMI - Non-Muslims living in the Khilafah