My older daughter, a teacher, called me last night...

[Esmeralda]

Teachers are trained to teach. They are professional teachers. They are not professional gun handlers. They should not be carrying guns in schools. As well, guns in schools makes it a huge possibility that students will gain access to guns and injuries or fatalities will result.

If a teacher wants to carry and gets trained, why would you deny them their right to defend themselves and their students ? Are you a totalitarian?

Because accidents happen. And I know well that in a school environment with hundreds of kids milling around the halls, in and out of classrooms, up and down stairs, congregating in the cafeteria and so on...that it is not easy to control anything, much less make sure that a firearm is always secure. Too much of a possibility for a deadly accident.

Kids pull fire alarms all the time, just as a joke. They create chaos when ever they can just for fun. It is far too problematic an environment for guns to be part of the mix.

And I'll tell you something else: the vast majority of teachers and parents do not want them in schools. If I were teaching in a school that suddenly allowed teachers to carry guns, I'd quit and so would millions of others. Millions of parents would not allow the school district to implement a program that allowed teachers to carry guns, It is simply not a plausible thing to consider. Maybe in some extremely rightwing areas, but nationwide it will not fly.

So genius how would you stop it?

Gun free doesn’t

Thorough security measures by professionals with only two main entrances to the school manned by professional security personnel and metal detectors. It should be as difficult to get into a school as it is to get on an airplane.

It would be paid for by the gun industry and gun owners as they are the ones causing the problem.

Okay, first of all, it already IS as difficult to get into a school as it is to get on an airplane, which is why we now have armed pilots. And as you can see, I for one am all in favor of continuing to follow that model by also having armed teachers/security guards.

Second of all, may I point out that YOU are the one insisting that everyone be kept helpless in the face of evildoers, and every single school shooting in this country has taken place under YOUR point of view, not mine, which makes YOU the one causing the problem. So if you want to point fingers, why don't you start with the idiots like yourself whose pie-in-the-sky daydreams of "gun free zones" have actually killed people? Don't even START trying on that self-righteous blame game while the blood drips off your hands.

I think probably you never enter a school and you never fly because you are completely wrong about how difficult it is to enter a school or get on a plane. The security for entering schools in America is 1) walk in and go to reception where they ask what you want and give you a pass to hang on your blouse/shirt. And that's it. Most schools have no security. And they have multiple entrances, If you don't enter by the main door that goes into the reception area, you just walk in w/o anyone paying any attention. And don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about: I've been teaching for 30 years.

If you don't fly, I guess you don't know the security one goes through. You must first buy a ticket, check in, show ID, and get a boarding pass. Once you check in and get your boarding pass, you go through a security process where your bag, shoes, coat, purse, etc., are removed and put through an xray machine that examines the contents. You walk through a metal detector and if the buzzer goes off, you are patted down, There have been no hijackings or bombs on planes because this search is so thorough. Getting into a school is nothing whatsoever like this.

The fact people like you want teachers to be armed just illustrates your obession with guns, as if everyone on the planet needs to carry in order to survive. The perspective is juvenile.

 

[Esmeralda]

Teachers are trained to teach. They are professional teachers. They are not professional gun handlers. They should not be carrying guns in schools. As well, guns in schools makes it a huge possibility that students will gain access to guns and injuries or fatalities will result.

If a teacher wants to carry and gets trained, why would you deny them their right to defend themselves and their students ? Are you a totalitarian?

Because accidents happen. And I know well that in a school environment with hundreds of kids milling around the halls, in and out of classrooms, up and down stairs, congregating in the cafeteria and so on...that it is not easy to control anything, much less make sure that a firearm is always secure. Too much of a possibility for a deadly accident.

Kids pull fire alarms all the time, just as a joke. They create chaos when ever they can just for fun. It is far too problematic an environment for guns to be part of the mix.

And I'll tell you something else: the vast majority of teachers and parents do not want them in schools. If I were teaching in a school that suddenly allowed teachers to carry guns, I'd quit and so would millions of others. Millions of parents would not allow the school district to implement a program that allowed teachers to carry guns. It is simply not a plausible thing to consider. Maybe in some extremely rightwing areas, but nationwide it will not fly. Schools or school districts with a program where teachers carried guns would have a hard time hiring teachers, especially experienced teachers.

Proper security is needed, with trained security personnel involved and metal detectors--not armed teachers.

Oh, WELL, accidents happen. Never mind that calculated acts of evil ALSO happen, at which point an accident can't possibly make things worse than they already are. Again, you're worrying about a pebble in your shoe while standing under an avalanche. Get some perspective.

An accident is far more likely to happen than a 'calculated act of evil.' You need to put things in perspective.

Do you have statistics to show us that?

That's hilarious. That's hilarious. Really, really hilariious. How fucking old are you? You think like a pre-teen. It's like you need mommy to explain to you about accidents. JFC how fucking stupid are you?

 

[Esmeralda]

Because accidents happen. And I know well that in a school environment with hundreds of kids milling around the halls, in and out of classrooms, up and down stairs, congregating in the cafeteria and so on...that it is not easy to control anything, much less make sure that a firearm is always secure. Too much of a possibility for a deadly accident.

Kids pull fire alarms all the time, just as a joke. They create chaos when ever they can just for fun. It is far too problematic an environment for guns to be part of the mix.

And I'll tell you something else: the vast majority of teachers and parents do not want them in schools. If I were teaching in a school that suddenly allowed teachers to carry guns, I'd quit and so would millions of others. Millions of parents would not allow the school district to implement a program that allowed teachers to carry guns, It is simply not a plausible thing to consider. Maybe in some extremely rightwing areas, but nationwide it will not fly.

So genius how would you stop it?

Gun free doesn’t

Thorough security measures by professionals with only two main entrances to the school manned by professional security personnel and metal detectors. It should be as difficult to get into a school as it is to get on an airplane.

It would be paid for by the gun industry and gun owners as they are the ones causing the problem.

He shot through the window stupid! It’s more complicated then you even know!

Bars on all first floor windows.

Yeah, because bullets are so big, they can't possibly get between the bars.

Seriously, how many times were you dropped on your head as a child?

You have no imagination. Bars are not necessarly inches apart. It's really sad. Get off the internet and go do your homework.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

98% of teachers don’t want guns in their classrooms.
There are too many variables where they will do much more harm than good.

Exactly. Having a fire arm in the class poses a very large risk. Especially when dealing with middle and high school students.

I am a teacher myself and I am against bringing guns into a classroom. It's a reckless idea.

Even if it is locked in a safe to which only you have access?

I am a teacher also. Our State Police instructors learned a new tactic to teach all of their trainees in the future that I had learned from Special Forces operators. Give me a gun and the students will be safe, or I will die trying.

We will just put you in the martyr category, so your precious beliefs will still be upheld as we lay you six feet under. We will say nice lies about your bravery, even though you apparently are too much of a coward to defend yourself and your students.

There's no guarantee a gun will save your life in a situation like that. Especially if the shooter has a semi automatic weapon.

Arming yourself gives you a false sense of security.

And having a shooter plus teachers shooting at the same time could lead to more deaths because of stray bullets.

Having a gun will have a better chance of saving my life than the pair of scissors I currently use.

I guarantee it does not give me a false sense of security. If armed, it almost guarantees the school shooter coming into my school will be assuming room temperature.

 

[cutter]

98% of teachers don’t want guns in their classrooms.
There are too many variables where they will do much more harm than good.

Teachers apparently value their money more than the children they are responsible for. They sure don’t mind having armed armored car drivers out in public. Are the armed drivers more responsible than most teachers? I have known a few armed guards and they never impressed me with their intelligence.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

.... uncharacteristically shaken after going through "shooter training" at school. She said all the female teachers were crying, a mess.

Shooter training.

"What it all boils down to, is that there's not much we can do, dad", she said. "They're going through and putting interior locks on classroom doors. Outside of that, you just have to hope the shooter doesn't find you."

I asked her about guns, and whether she supported the idea of giving teachers the option of having guns. "Hell yes," she said, and they had talked about that in training. She doesn't support it being mandatory, but definitely agreed that if some number of teachers did want to do it, it would help. She would do it.

So that was my Friday evening conversation with my daughter. They're usually a little different.
.

My guess is that the school will resist letting teachers arm themselves (those that actually own arms and are trained to use them) because lawyers have their heads up everyone's asses about fear of legal liability, even if they arm with the same ammo used by Marshalls aboard planes (won't go through walls) so as a result, NO ONE is willing to take action, take the initiative, or lead. If schools were smart, they would incorporate an intruder control system unknown to anyone but faculty that if a gunman enters the building, classrooms can be locked down and isolated while the intruder is restricted to a hallway, etc., long enough that he can be hit with a gas spray to immobilize or incapacitate him until authorities can arrive. It really isn't that hard if we can get the fucking lawyers out of everyone's asses.

One idea that the trainer brought up - so it must be circulating - was to have a gun in a locked safe in every classroom. The teachers shot that idea down (oops) for a variety of reasons, and I can understand that. But it seems to me that if there are a few employees willing to carry it could (could) make a difference.

It's insane that we're even having to talk about this, and it's indicative of a much larger problem.
.

that is not really a good idea

only those who want to and have been fully trained for should handle the weapon

as for a plan every classroom should have an escape window operable from the inside

kids should be taught to " get out of there " now instead of "locking yourself in a build" with an active shooter

Yeah, that will work great on a school that has no windows period! My first school had no windows except in entrances and hallways. I am sure you have about $30 million laying around to build a new school.

Also, are you familiar with the school shooting that happened when a student shot other students leaving school from a wooded area near the school?

The procedure is to run, hide, and fight. First, run away and get behind a locked door or out of the building. If you cannot run, you hide. If you cannot hide or are found, fight!

,

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So genius how would you stop it?

Gun free doesn’t

Thorough security measures by professionals with only two main entrances to the school manned by professional security personnel and metal detectors. It should be as difficult to get into a school as it is to get on an airplane.

It would be paid for by the gun industry and gun owners as they are the ones causing the problem.

He shot through the window stupid! It’s more complicated then you even know!

Bars on all first floor windows.

Yeah, because bullets are so big, they can't possibly get between the bars.

Seriously, how many times were you dropped on your head as a child?

You have no imagination. Bars are not necessarly inches apart. It's really sad. Get off the internet and go do your homework.

What happens to those bars in case you have to exit that window due to a fire? You just killed yourself ahead of time.

 

[initforme]

Let the taxpayers find a few full time armed guards at each and every school if that's what it takes....pay them like a cop not like a teacher so that make a decent salary.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

98% of teachers don’t want guns in their classrooms.
There are too many variables where they will do much more harm than good.

Exactly. Having a fire arm in the class poses a very large risk. Especially when dealing with middle and high school students.

I am a teacher myself and I am against bringing guns into a classroom. It's a reckless idea.

Even if it is locked in a safe to which only you have access?

I am a teacher also. Our State Police instructors learned a new tactic to teach all of their trainees in the future that I had learned from Special Forces operators. Give me a gun and the students will be safe, or I will die trying.

We will just put you in the martyr category, so your precious beliefs will still be upheld as we lay you six feet under. We will say nice lies about your bravery, even though you apparently are too much of a coward to defend yourself and your students.

There's no guarantee a gun will save your life in a situation like that. Especially if the shooter has a semi automatic weapon.

Arming yourself gives you a false sense of security.

And having a shooter plus teachers shooting at the same time could lead to more deaths because of stray bullets.

If you want to live in a country without guns, you are free to leave.

The gun homicide rate in USA among whites is the same as in Holland, so that's not what you are complaining about. Perhaps it's time to admit that you really hate the idea of someone having a gun and being able to protect himself.


Because you liberal soy boys can't protect anything, and the ladies don't exactly find that attractive. I would feel inadequate too if my competition was guys with big guns while having nothing for myself.

I never said we need to ban guns. In fact I am for keeping guns legal. I think owning a small hand gun is absolutely fine. In fact if I lived alone, I would own one.

What I don't agree with is large and semi automatic weapons being made widely available. There needs to be serious background checks and extensive training.

Also a classroom isn't a place for a gun. If schools wanted to hire armed guards, that's something I could support.

But it is absurd and dangerous for a gun to be in a classroom full of kids.

My God, you are ignorant! That small handgun you wouldn't mind having is likely a semi-automatic!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

There's no guarantee a gun will save your life in a situation like that. Especially if the shooter has a semi automatic weapon.

Arming yourself gives you a false sense of security.

And having a shooter plus teachers shooting at the same time could lead to more deaths because of stray bullets.

Are you suggesting that anyone's chances of survival are better if they are unarmed while facing a shooter armed with a semi-automatic weapons?
Being unarmed and expecting someone will come save you is the false sense of security.

Do you find it odd you have everything backwards in your argument ...

.

I am suggesting that having a handgun vs a semi automatic weapon will not make you anymore safer than being unarmed.

Can you name a handgun that isn't semi-automatic that you would prefer?

You are using terms you do not understand!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I am suggesting that having a handgun vs a semi automatic weapon will not make you anymore safer than being unarmed.

But that's not true ... Handguns also come in semi automatic.
You are never (by any measure) safer unarmed when facing an armed individual trying to kill you.
If someone is trying to kill you with a gun ... You are safer with a fork than nothing at all ...

You are not safer waiting to get shot.

.

Perhaps if we ban semi automatic weapons, we won't have to worry about mass shootings happening at the rate that it is.

You want to ban guns then! Why didn't you just say so!

The answer is not only "no", but "hell no"!

So what is that rate?

Are you going by the fake news that tell you we had 18 school shootings this year in a six week period?

You do know there were actually only two that resulted in fatalities. Right?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Perhaps if we ban semi automatic weapons, we won't have to worry about mass shootings happening at the rate that it is.

Perhaps if we all sit in a circle, smoke pot and make daisy chains no one will want to shoot anyone ...

.

Hey why not?

Great! You can be the pivot point for the circle jerk!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

We already have millions of them , we passed the no point of return decades ago.

Yeah, right. It's not as if starting to reduce the number of military style semi automatics and large capacity handguns entering the system and starting to remove those already in it will help over time. You're helpless. Helpless.

Will you be any more dead if I shoot you with a rifle that has a fixed wooden stock or a collapsible plastic one?

 

[initforme]

Why citizens need assault rifles for I don't get but I am not for banning guns. No self respecting Hunter uses one. I own guns for hunting and find no reason for an assault rifle....the newer rifles are junk....my old bolt action is ten times the hunting rifle.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

In spite of what occurred on Wednesday, your children ( and their teachers ) are much less likely to be shot in school than they are in their own homes.

The idea that introducing firearms into classrooms will result in a safer environment for children is ludicrous. Fear is a poor basis for sound decision making.

No, I'm fairly certain they're at very little risk, comparatively, of someone barging into their home with a gun and deliberately looking to shoot people.

That is exactly what happened to my daughter-in-law's family. Three teenagers busted in the door and shot her stepfather twice with a sawed off shotgun.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Why citizens need assault rifles for I don't get but I am not for banning guns. No self respecting Hunter uses one. I own guns for hunting and find no reason for an assault rifle....the newer rifles are junk....my old bolt action is ten times the hunting rifle.

No one uses an assault rifle for anything outside the military and a few police. You are as bad as everyone else who thinks all "black scary rifles" are assault weapons. They aren't!

Learn the truth!

 

[Cellblock2429]

Why citizens need assault rifles for I don't get but I am not for banning guns. No self respecting Hunter uses one. I own guns for hunting and find no reason for an assault rifle....the newer rifles are junk....my old bolt action is ten times the hunting rifle.

No one uses an assault rifle for anything outside the military and a few police. You are as bad as everyone else who thinks all "black scary rifles" are assault weapons. They aren't!

Learn the truth!

/——/ there is no such thing as an assault weapon. It’s a made up bs phrase meant to demonize guns


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Teachers do now want to and do not plan to be armed.

Teachers On Guns In Schools: 72 Percent Of Educators Say They ...
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/.../teachers-guns-schools-survey-firearms_n_277355...

Feb 27, 2013 - However, the results of a national teacher survey, released Wednesday, suggests the goals of the “guns-in-schools” bills may be far from what teachers really want. According to the online poll, 72.4 percent of teachers would not likely bring a firearm to school, if allowed. Administered by the School ...

By far most teacher and school employee organizations do now want teachers packing guns. It is a deeply unpopular idea. Teachers, on the whole, do not want to take guns to school. And it is a completely,quintessentially stupid idea.

72.4 % saying they wouldn't ... Is the same as 27.6% that would.
That amounts to 1 in every 4 teachers armed ... Dumbass ...

One in every 4 teachers in a school packing is insane, Dumbass.

Why? You don't trust teachers? Then why the hell do you expect us to give them our children to care for?

Teachers are trained to teach. They are professional teachers. They are not professional gun handlers. They should not be carrying guns in schools. As well, guns in schools makes it a huge possibility that students will gain access to guns and injuries or fatalities will result.

I carried a gun many years before I became a teacher and many years after. Why can't you learn?

 

[Jackson]

I think changing the doors to be resistant to bullets and a partition in each room where the class could get behind so it would appear the room was emply would be a help. IIf teachers don'r get permission for guns, perhaps stun guns could be an idea.

A phone in every room to let the office know about the possible location of the shooter would be possible, That sbhool was so incredibly large it would be hard to locate a shooter.

If the teachers get guns, there is a new lock that opens with fingerprintsthat will be available instead of a numbered code that most every teacher would not remember in a time of emergency. Key? Good lock in findng it in a frenzy.

 

[Jackson]

Why citizens need assault rifles for I don't get but I am not for banning guns. No self respecting Hunter uses one. I own guns for hunting and find no reason for an assault rifle....the newer rifles are junk....my old bolt action is ten times the hunting rifle.

No one uses an assault rifle for anything outside the military and a few police. You are as bad as everyone else who thinks all "black scary rifles" are assault weapons. They aren't!

Learn the truth!

/——/ there is no such thing as an assault weapon. It’s a made up bs phrase meant to demonize guns


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Everyone knows what is meant by an assault weapon. To change the term now would be changing it for political reasons.