NASA's top global warming nut admits warming has stopped for 10 years...

[polarbear]

Westwall -

I am sure we all recognise Wiki's weaknesses, but it is very quick for posting on forums, and it gives good overviews for people who only want to spend 30 seconds checking something out.

I use it a lot here because the standards of literacy and intelligence are so low that anything much harder won't work!

Try us, we might surprise you, but overwhelm you for sure, because you are already way out of your depth
...but how would YOU come up with something more intelligent ?
If you would number all your fingers and start with finger #10, your right hand pinky and keep going to your right hand thumb, finger #6 and add the 5 fingers on your left hand you would not be able to figure out how you got to 11 fingers instead of 10.
Does your mommy label your shoes so you know which foot goes where?
Maybe she should, because each time you try and say something you got your foot in your mouth instead of a shoe.

Westwall -
Ha! Well, I may not be as educated as some - but at least I speak my third language better than you speak your first.

And that`s coming from somebody who only just yesterday said blah blah blah...tow the line instead of toe the line...and kept spelling skeptic "sceptic" just to name 2 out of > 100 blunders you`ve made just this month.

Current time in Finland is already 6:15 PM. He`s been at it non-stop since 0800 my time, central Canada...and does that every day ever since he registered as "Saigon" from Finland with the U.S. Messageboard
I wonder when this guy who fakes it "making a living as as Journalist in Finland" writes his articles for the Helsinki news
Oh I forgot...they publish in Swedish because the "Saigon Finns" can`t agree how to write 20, "LOLOL" doesn`t jive either and they don`t have a word for "micro processor" and all the other stuff which is beyond reindeer milking technology.
I gotta check if they have a Finn version of wikipedia..
I`ll be damned they do:
Wikipedia, vapaa tietosanakirja

They also got a Google.fi
Google

Makes you wonder why he is using the English versions to get his "intelligent standards of literacy" information while his English is so fucked up that he can`t spell the most common words correctly.
That`s strange...everybody in Europe, say Germany is pissed off because when they Google, Google checks their IP and directs them to :
Google
No matter how hard they try...French in France to the France Google...Italians to the Italian Google...it works like that around the globe..!!!
And even in Canada you got to know how to get by the Google IP trap else you land on Google.ca every time.
Yet when I check up on this "Saigon" in Finland he got all "his intelligent standards of literacy information" from the top 10 Google hits that come up with the U.S. Google home page
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en
Yeah it must be a bastard faking that you are in Finland if you don`t have keybfi.dll in your widows system32 files, the default setting for Finland and if you try use it the keys don`t match up any more with their key labels on a U.S. keyboard.
Some day I won`t just stick your IP in your face again, but I`ll suck you in to click on a hidden label link that leads you to my web-page and I`ll change your keyboard default with some simple Java script to Chinese and shut you up for good.
It works no matter what firewall, "anti-virus" or OS you got !
So if Finnish is your first language and English your third, what`s your second language?
Maybe I`ll be kind and change your keyboard to that one before I`ll zap you out for good with Arabic, Hebrew, Japanese or Chinese.
On the other hand I might not, because it is so amusing to read the stuff you have been posting.
I got an uncle, he is Chinese and was a Chem Prof at Montreal`s McGill.
He let an asshole freshmen from the same U in a bar next to the U go on and on bragging and lecturing my uncle on Chemistry...trying to impress some girls who sat at the same table.
I had to leave the table because I could not hide my laughter any longer and did not want to spoil my uncle`s fun....he had the best poker face I have seen in my entire life so far.
Your bluff is up and bluffing may work in poker, but only for actors much better than you...and here you are trying to play chess against people who were`nt just born yesterday.

I know a chess puzzle that you can`t Google.
place all the pieces of one color set (not both) on a chess board so that they all cover each other and every square on the board.
Should be no problem if you are 1/2 as intelligent as you claim you are.

 

[westwall]

Westwall -

Ha! Well, I may not be as educated as some - but at least I speak my third language better than you speak your first.

The thing is, Wall, the absolute and utter desperation you guys show on these threads is not difficult to spot. It's no surprise to me you are reduced to pretending that I'm not Finnish - even though it's obvious to anyone who reads these threads that I speak Finnish and quite often post things about Finland no one else would be likely to know.

Of course I understand it's embarassing that you claim to know New Zealand well, but didn't know the country is caught in the grip of the worst drought for 30 years - the severity and frequency of droughts being a key factor in NZ climate change. Ditto the fact that the major glaciers have all retreated massively during the past century, the sea levels have risen, temperatures risen, and even the now frequent appearance of 'Happy Feet' penguins is a clear indicator of climate change in Kiwiland. If you don't know your Hokianga from your Kaipara or your paua from your kina you shouldn't have chosen NZ as a topic!

Us? Desperate? We're not the ones trotting out every desperate bit of news trying to prop up a failed theory...that would be you! I think you truly are insane. Only a true fruitloop could come up with the crap you do an an hourly basis.

But, as Polarbear said, you are amusing to watch.

Still trying to google those names aren't you!

 

[Saigon]

Two reports issued yesterday by Greater Wellington regional council show Wellington's sea level is the fastest rising in New Zealand - made worse by seismic rumblings causing the city to sink 1.7mm a year since 2000.

Worst-case scenarios coupling massive sea level rise with intense storm floods show low-lying coastal parts of the Eastbourne bays, Petone, Pauatahanui, as well as the river mouths at Otaki, Hutt, Whakataki (near Castlepoint), and Waikanae and the lower Wairarapa valley, could be forever swamped if sea levels rose 1.5m by 2115.

Wellington Sea Level Rising Fastest In Country | Stuff.co.nz

Wall -

Since you know New Zealand so well, do you think rising sea levels might cause concern for people living in the Hauraki or Canterbury Plains?

Do you think other NZ cities like Auckland, Nelson, Tauranga, CHCH and Dunedin might also be affected by a rise in sea levels?

 

[Saigon]

And then we have the rising temperatures....

 

[Saigon]

and collapsing glaciers...something specifically denied by Westwall....

yes I know it quite well and have actually spent a great deal of time on the Franz Josef glacier and it is in fact advancing.

Franz Josef Glacier's 'rapid' retreat (+photos) - National - NZ Herald News

A spectacular ice retreat at the Franz Josef Glacier has surprised experts.

The glacier has retreated 500m in four years, prompting suggestions of a road up the valley as the ice disappears from view.

Dr Brian Anderson, a Victoria University senior research fellow in glaciology, said the retreat was "really unusual and quite amazing".

Between 1893 and the end of its last big retreat 90 years later, in 1983, Franz Josef Glacier receded about 3km.

Between 1983 and 2008 it advanced almost 1.5km after heavy snowfalls. But in the past four years it has melted almost 500m.

 

[westwall]

Two reports issued yesterday by Greater Wellington regional council show Wellington's sea level is the fastest rising in New Zealand - made worse by seismic rumblings causing the city to sink 1.7mm a year since 2000.

Worst-case scenarios coupling massive sea level rise with intense storm floods show low-lying coastal parts of the Eastbourne bays, Petone, Pauatahanui, as well as the river mouths at Otaki, Hutt, Whakataki (near Castlepoint), and Waikanae and the lower Wairarapa valley, could be forever swamped if sea levels rose 1.5m by 2115.

Wellington Sea Level Rising Fastest In Country | Stuff.co.nz

Wall -

Since you know New Zealand so well, do you think rising sea levels might cause concern for people living in the Hauraki or Canterbury Plains?

Do you think other NZ cities like Auckland, Nelson, Tauranga, CHCH and Dunedin might also be affected by a rise in sea levels?

If there was indeed a sel level rise then some low lying areas could be affected. However, just like there has been no rise in temps for the last 16 years, there has been no rise in sea level either. The subduction going on seems to be the actual cause of whatever sea levl rise there has been, but as you can see there has been no measurable rise in years from points all around the country.

I have no idea who is pushing the Wellington nonsense but the University of Otago published this study in 2011 that counters the Wellington tale of woe.


Abstract:

Since the later part of the 19th Century, tide gauge records indicate that global sea levels have risen with an average rate of 1.7 ± 0.3 mm/yr. Satellite altimetry records indicate that the rate of sea level rise between 1993 and 2010 was 3.2 ± 0.4 mm/yr. It is currently uncertain if this latter figure is indicative of an increased rate of rise, or the result of a periodic signal. In any event, if the future sea level rise is to be predicted accurately, it is of great importance that changes in the rate of sea level rise be detected as soon as possible.
This study utilises a variety of techniques, including Least Squares and Fast Fourier Transform analyses, to assess the sea level records from New Zealand’s four longest tide gauge stations, located in Auckland, Wellington, Lyttelton and Dunedin, to detect any significant changes in the rate of relative sea level rise. It finds that Wellington’s records demonstrate a relative acceleration of 0.013 ± 0.01 mm/yr2 between 1891 and 2007, which is superimposed over the decadal and interdecadal signals that are present in the records. However, continuous Global Positioning System measurements that have been collected at the site over the past decade indicate the presence of significant tectonic motion in the form of subduction. The records from the Auckland, Lyttelton and Dunedin tide gauges do not demonstrate significant accelerations. The longest significant signals that are present within the sea level records from Auckland, Wellington, and Dunedin have periods in the range of 45 to 50 years.

The establishment of continuous Global Positioning System stations at long-term tide gauge stations is imperative to isolate non-constant vertical deformations from the observed relative rates of sea level rise to detect accelerations, and also to isolate the absolute rate of sea level rise.



An acceleration in New Zealand's sea level record?

 

[westwall]

And then we have the rising temperatures....

Which was proven to have been false.


"The official archivist of New Zealand’s climate records, the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research (NIWA), offers top billing to its 147-year-old national mean temperature series (the “NIWA Seven-station Series” or NSS). This series shows that New Zealand experienced a twentieth-century warming trend of 0.92°C.

The official temperature record is wrong. The instrumental raw data correctly show that New Zealand average temperatures have remained remarkably steady at 12.6°C +/- 0.5°C for a century and a half. NIWA’s doctoring of that data is indefensible.

The NSS is the outcome of a subjective data series produced by a single Government scientist, whose work has never been peer-reviewed or subjected to proper quality checking. It was smuggled into the official archive without any formal process. It is undocumented and sans metadata, and it could not be defended in any court of law. Yet the full line-up of NIWA climate scientists has gone to extraordinary lengths to support this falsified warming and to fiercely attack its critics.

For nearly 15 years, the 20th-century warming trend of 0.92°C derived from the NSS has been at the centre of NIWA official advice to all tiers of New Zealand Government – Central, Regional and Local. It informs the NIWA climate model. It is used in sworn expert testimony in Environment Court hearings. Its dramatic graph graces the front page of NIWA’s printed brochures and its website.

Internationally, the NSS 0.92°C trend is a foundation stone for the Australia-New Zealand Chapter in the IPCC’s Third and Fourth Assessment Reports. In 1994, it was submitted to HadleyCRUT, so as to influence the vast expanses of the South Pacific in the calculation of globally-averaged temperatures.

The Minister of Research Science and Technology, the Hon Dr Wayne Mapp, has finally become alarmed at the murky provenance of the NSS. The Government has directed and funded a 6-month project to produce a new national temperature record, with published data and transparent processes. The replacement record is to be the subject of a scientific paper, which is to be peer-reviewed by the Australian Bureau of Meteorology.

Hon Rodney Hide, a climate sceptic who is a Minister in the current Government and leader of the junior coalition partner, the ACT Party, has called upon his ministerial colleagues to formally repudiate the NSS and to withdraw all publications and formal papers which are based on the spurious warming trend of 0.92°C. The Government has not yet responded to this challenge.

New Zealand is a small country, with a strong tradition of open Government, and is not an easy place to keep secrets. The acceptance of the NSS for so long offers evidence of the dictum: “you can fool all of the people some of the time..” But if that can happen in New Zealand, how much greater is the probability that similar shenanigans could be happening in larger, more complex, jurisdictions?"

Crisis in New Zealand climatology « Aletho News

And then there was this little fiasco for the warmists.....

"New Zealand skeptics of man-made global warming score historic legal victory as discredited government climate scientists perform U-turn and refuse to allow a third party peer-review report of official temperature adjustments to be shown in court. Skeptic lawyers will consider a move for sanctions that should prove fatal to government’s case."


Breaking: Courtroom Chaos as New Zealand Skeptics Rout Government Climatists | johnosullivan

For someone who claims to be a journalist you are remarkably ill informed...

 

[westwall]

and collapsing glaciers...something specifically denied by Westwall....

yes I know it quite well and have actually spent a great deal of time on the Franz Josef glacier and it is in fact advancing.

Franz Josef Glacier's 'rapid' retreat (+photos) - National - NZ Herald News

A spectacular ice retreat at the Franz Josef Glacier has surprised experts.

The glacier has retreated 500m in four years, prompting suggestions of a road up the valley as the ice disappears from view.

Dr Brian Anderson, a Victoria University senior research fellow in glaciology, said the retreat was "really unusual and quite amazing".

Between 1893 and the end of its last big retreat 90 years later, in 1983, Franz Josef Glacier receded about 3km.

Between 1983 and 2008 it advanced almost 1.5km after heavy snowfalls. But in the past four years it has melted almost 500m.

It's all part of the ebb and flow of glaciers silly person. The fact remains that it has advanced more than it has retreated in the last 25 years.

 

[saveliberty]

For climate science to really be considered science again, it needs to follow scientific methods and openly allow inspection of data. Setting up reasonable collection sites is needed too. Data manipulation to match desired results is as scientific as attempting to turn lead to gold.

 

[polarbear]

For climate science to really be considered science again, it needs to follow scientific methods and openly allow inspection of data. Setting up reasonable collection sites is needed too. Data manipulation to match desired results is as scientific as attempting to turn lead to gold.

Here is another example of data manipulation:

If you have not been around instrumentation like Atomic absorption, Nuclear Magnetic Resonance, Gas Chromathographs, HPLC`s , or anything that uses scale expansion to enhance the detection limit than you would not be required to know how electronic averaging works.

I have to know how it works else I could not have made a living.
It`s a rather simple circuit which involves a resistive selector switch which is piped into a capacitor selector switch. The whole thing is called a "noise damper" and it gives you a true average signal output voltage which either goes to an analog "strip chart" or to an AD converter and the numbers are logged. If you don`t have one handy you can just copy and paste the above "average trend" into a CAD and draw a line connecting all the highs and another which connects all the lows. Then you sample at regular time intervals by connecting the high with the low and use the middle value.
That`s exactly how a noise damper or any other electronic averaging circuit would do it...it has no bias and does not give a damn what you would like to see.
Anyway here is how the (brown trend) line would come out:

You can`t just start with the middle value at the left side of the graph and draw a straight incline to the right...and be way off the mean values for almost all the sampling points,...too low on the left and too high on the right...to get red line up-slope as steep as possible..
It`s cheating to the max,...plain and simple. No computer program or digital averaging would yield an average line like the red one either.
I`m quite certain it was dawn by a person with 2 mouse clicks and a severe bias.

I think Westwall being a geologist would have seen a few instrument outputs on strip chart out put after scale expansion and noise dampers to confirm this. I`m too lazy to Google for it, but that`s the way it REALLY works...not like the red "climatology" line.
Besides, that graph has been thrown out by almost all the Met Offices and this one is the one they used and wonder why it stalled even though CO2 has been going up like the faked red line in the graph above:
Stillstand der Temperatur: Erklärungen für Pause der Klimaerwärmung - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Klimawandel: Forscher rätseln über Stillstand bei Erderwärmung

Translation
Researchers are puzzled why the temperature increase has stalled
Notice how the new graph closely matches the brown true (analog-electronic) average line over the entire range

 

[polarbear]

For climate science to really be considered science again, it needs to follow scientific methods and openly allow inspection of data. Setting up reasonable collection sites is needed too. Data manipulation to match desired results is as scientific as attempting to turn lead to gold.

Here is another example of data manipulation:

If you have not been around instrumentation like Atomic absorption-, Nuclear Magnetic Resonance-, -Spectrophotometers,Gas Chromathographs, HPLC`s , or anything that uses scale expansion to enhance the detection limit after "noise reduction" then you would not be required to know how electronic averaging circuits work.

I have to know how it works else I could not have made a living.
It`s a rather simple circuit which involves a resistive bank selector switch which is wired to a capacitor bank selector switch. The signal voltage output is at the selected resistor- capacitor junction. The whole thing is called a "noise damper" and it gives you a true average signal output voltage which either goes to an analog "strip chart" or to an AD converter and the numbers are logged.
I`ve got one for my oscilloscope + a digital waveform generator where I can enter the numerical values and display the output. I did and got the same line as with the CAD window method

If you don`t have one handy you can just copy and paste the above "average trend" into a CAD window and draw a line connecting all the highs and another which connects all the lows. Then you sample at regular time intervals by connecting the high with the low and use the line center points.
That`s exactly how a noise damper or any other electronic averaging circuit would do it...it has no bias and does not give a damn what you would like to see.
Anyway here is how the (brown trend) line would come out:

You can`t just start with the middle value at the left side of the graph and draw a straight incline to the right...and be way off the mean values for almost all the sampling points,...too low on the left and too high on the right,most of all what`s on the Y axis over 2010.
I think Westwall being a geologist would have seen a few instrument outputs on strip chart out put after scale expansion and noise dampers to confirm this. I`m too lazy to Google for it, but that`s the way it REALLY works...not like the red "climatology" line.
I`m quite certain that red line has been drawn in by a "climatologist" with 2 mouse clicks and a severe bias
Besides, that graph has been thrown out by almost all the Met Offices and this one is the one they use now and wonder why it stalled even though CO2 has been going up like the faked red line in the graph above:
(Notice how the new graph closely matches the brown true (analog-electronic) average line over the entire range)
Stillstand der Temperatur: Erklärungen für Pause der Klimaerwärmung - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Klimawandel: Forscher rätseln über Stillstand bei Erderwärmung

Translation
Researchers are puzzled why the temperature increase has stalled

15 Jahre ohne Erwärmung der bodennahen Luft sind nun vorbei. Der Stillstand der Durchschnittstemperatur zeigt, dass die Unsicherheiten der Klimaprognosen überraschend groß sind. Gespannt wartet die Öffentlichkeit, ob der Klimareport der Uno, der im September erscheinen soll, die Pause der Erwärmung diskutieren wird - die Beratungen dazu laufen derzeit im australischen Hobart. Die Forscher erörtern mehrere triftige Ursachen, die den Aufwärtstrend der Temperaturen vorläufig gebremst haben könnten.

Translation:
15 years have gone by without any increase in near surface air temperatures.
The stalled averages show how large the uncertainty of the climate prognosis really was.
The public is waiting to see if the UN`s IPCC will mention this in their report which is due in September
At this time advisers to the IPCC are meeting in Hobart Australia to discuss what could have stopped the temperature increase.


...while our forum warmists still insist that temperatures have been climbing
P.S.
Der Spiegel is Germany`s largest (left leaning) News magazine and is known for perhaps employing the largest number of fact checkers of any news media world-wide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Spiegel

It is known in the German-speaking sphere for its distinctive, academic writing style and its large volume—a standard issue may run 200 pages or more. Typically, it has a content to advertising ratio of 2:1. In 1994, the online sibiling of Der Spiegel, Spiegel Online, was launched. It has an independent editorial staff from Der Spiegel.
The magazine's influence is based on two pillars; firstly the moral authority established by investigative journalism since the early years and proven alive by several impressive scoops during the 1980s; secondly the economic power of the prolific Spiegel publishing house. Since 1988, it has produced the TV programme Spiegel TV, and further diversified during the 1990s. In 1994, Spiegel Online was launched. It has separate, independent editorial staff from Der Spiegel. Among other things, Spiegel Verlag now publishes the monthly Manager Magazin.
As of 2010, Der Spiegel was employing the equivalent of 80 full-time fact checkers, which the Columbia Journalism Review called "most likely the world's largest fact checking operation".[4]

And that`s why Der Spiegel is the first on the list in my bookmark folder just for the news which I read every day...(before I even get into what`s new in the sciences I subscribed to by e-mail notifications)
Then the BBC, the CBC, RiaNovosti, AlJazeera, Reuters etc etc 27 online-news bookmarks and CNN is at the very bottom..I even look into MSNBC just to amuse myself,...because it`s almost as funny as reading "Saigon`s" postings, what they believe in Fin- or whatever phantasy land he lives in....thinking he is smarter than 80 full time professional fact checkers and all the IPCC advisors who are currently meeting in Hobart/Australia...which are all "denying" his CO2/flaming heat apocalypse psychosis

 

[Saigon]

Which was proven to have been false.

Um....you might want to check what I actually posted.

The first report was criticised in some quaters, so the entire research project was conducrted again. My graph shows both sets of data.

So no - it was NOT proven to be false.

 

[Saigon]

It's all part of the ebb and flow of glaciers silly person. The fact remains that it has advanced more than it has retreated in the last 25 years.

And the fact remains that it has retreated more than it has advanced by some miles during the past century.

Please be honest enough to admit that.

You claimed that you had been to the glacier and that it is advancing - it IS NOT advancing.

 

[Saigon]

However, just like there has been no rise in temps for the last 16 years, there has been no rise in sea level either.

If you read the actual report, what Cole suggests is that sea levels are rising - but that this trend is accelerating only in WGTN, and not in CHCH, DNN or AKL.

The pdf of the thesis is available, and the charts for each city are included.

 

[Unkotare]

Which was proven to have been false.

Um....you might want to check what I actually posted.

The first report was criticised in some quaters [sic], so the entire research project was conducrted [sic] again. My graph shows both sets of data.

So no - it was NOT proven to be false.

In some quaters? Which quaters? If I give you a quater will you give me two dimes and a nickel? I'm trying to conducrrrrrrrrrt some change.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Are you five years old or just like to play a child, online?

 

[polarbear]

Are you five years old or just like to play a child, online?

Is that the best you can do, posting a caricature of 2 stereotyped skeptics looking for grammar and spelling errors on a blackboard full of crap written by an "eminent scientist" who wears a lab coat ?
If it were only "minor details" nobody from the IPCC would be meeting in Hobart Australia right now trying to figure out why there was no temperature increase for over a decade and why the "extra heat" that your cartoon character in the white lab coat predicted is nowhere to be found.
Neither in the atmosphere nor in the oceans with 3255 Argo buoys that sample down to a depth of 2000 meter...since 2002.
Stillstand der Temperatur: Erklärungen für Pause der Klimaerwärmung - SPIEGEL ONLINE

15 years have gone by without any increase in near surface air temperatures.
The stalled averages show how large the uncertainty of the climate prognosis really was.
The public is waiting to see if the UN`s IPCC will mention this in their report which is due in September
At this time advisers to the IPCC are meeting in Hobart Australia to discuss what could have stopped the temperature increase.

Phänomen "fehlende Wärme": Klimaforscher rätseln über Meereskälte - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Phänomen "fehlende Wärme": Klimaforscher rätseln über Meereskälte

"Missing heat puzzles climate science researchers "

Nice try bozo...teaming up with your buddy, the "Journalist in Finland" who has to Google who the PM of Finland is trying to bury the facts with a squall of troll-garbage.
Why don`t you go to the IPCC`s advisory meeting in Hobart and tell them how to address that "dot they forgot" and the "sentence that ended with a preposition"...
Assholes like you pretend to be smarter than 80 full time professional fact checkers and an entire international convention of people who have nothing in common with you or your childish cartoon.
It`s no problem to paste and re-post the reality that childish cement heads like you & "Saigon" can`t handle.
Nobody reads your crap anyway, you and the likes of you don`t want that anybody else gets to see whatever facts have come to light and bury it.
It`s not so easy to bury what has been in the international press and why the IPCC is having a damage control meeting in Australia how to address these "minor details" in the September annual report.

 

[westwall]

It's all part of the ebb and flow of glaciers silly person. The fact remains that it has advanced more than it has retreated in the last 25 years.

And the fact remains that it has retreated more than it has advanced by some miles during the past century.

Please be honest enough to admit that.

You claimed that you had been to the glacier and that it is advancing - it IS NOT advancing.

And 90% of the retreat occured before the CO2 percentages were at "bad" levels. Funny how you all ignore that.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

I don't mind the discussion of hazardous environmental effects which are real and dangerous even if they aren't permanent. That's the sad part; is that (fake) global warming takes us from talking about the real dangers that are often fatal or life shortening.

 

[polarbear]

It's all part of the ebb and flow of glaciers silly person. The fact remains that it has advanced more than it has retreated in the last 25 years.

And the fact remains that it has retreated more than it has advanced by some miles during the past century.

Please be honest enough to admit that.

You claimed that you had been to the glacier and that it is advancing - it IS NOT advancing.

And 90% of the retreat occured before the CO2 percentages were at "bad" levels. Funny how you all ignore that.

Remember these "snow experts" that this "Saigon" quoted?
I wonder what they will rant after all that snow melts due to "global warming"...eventually, but not just yet. Imagine how they will gloat (again) if some farmers get flooded out
Tonight my region drops to -29 C...again!...we have been in a deep freeze since October :
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBJZqKnq5g&feature=youtu.be"]Manitoba Spring - YouTube[/ame]
And 20 feet tall glaciers are forming around shopping center parking lots.
It`s under control though. Our Highways department has installed huge concrete culverts all over the place and the Nelson River dams up north are already dumping water into the Hudson Bay to make room for all the melt water our friends south of the border will send down the Red River.
All we do is open our flood way gates and send the water the Red can`t handle on our side of the border up North and generate a shitload of Hydro power...which we send via Dipole1,2 HVDC lines and soon also DP#3 into the US.
Fargo tried to get a flood way system like that, but your feds don`t want to help pay for the infra structure. Obama does not mind if Minnesota and ND get flooded out...else the warmers can`t gloat any more.
They do come to Manitoba though and take pictures of "starving polar bears" when we open the Nelson River spill way gates and the Hudson Bay ice gets pushed back a few kilometers.
Next day the ice is back and the polar bears are gone, so are the enviro-paparazzis. Churchill flea bag motels make some phone calls when they know that the gates will open and "melt" the ice in the bay. Within hours they are booked out solid at inflated $$$ by every green-peace wacko with a camera.None ever mention the spillway gates. It all happens because of "unusually high temperatures" in the Hudson Bay..even if it was 40 below when they took their pictures.

Look at the lies they fabricate:
http://e360.yale.edu/feature/for_hudson_bay_polar_bears_the_end_is_already_in_sight/2293/

For Hudson Bay Polar Bears,
The End is Already in Sight

The polar bear has long been a symbol of the damage wrought by global warming, but now biologist Andrew Derocher and his colleagues have calculated how long one southerly population can hold out. Their answer? No more than a few decades, as the bears’ decline closely tracks that of the Arctic’s disappearing sea ice.

images of the western Hudson Bay polar bear population

e360: The population now is about how many?

Derocher: It’s just a little over 900.

e360: And 30 years ago it was eleven or twelve hundred?

Derocher: That’s correct, yes. A little over twelve hundred.

e360: And are you saying that the bears, over the last few decades, have been losing on the order of 20 or 30 pounds per decade?

2012 Aerial surveys have shown that there are more than 2300 just in the Foxe basin part of the Hudson Bay.
All the while Nunavut have been allowed to kill 450 polar bears each year and the pb population around Churchill just keeps increasing...and that`s why Canada did not endorse the U.N. endangered species status for the over 25000 polar bears on Canadian Territory.
It`s got dick all to do with global warming or not enough ice in the Hudson bay

http://www.canadiangeographic.ca/magazine/dec12/polar_bears.asp

If a friend has ever shown you a snapshot of a polar bear, the odds are good that the photo was taken in Churchill. While Churchill is legendarily the Polar Bear Capital of the World, it is also the Polar Bear Tourism Capital of the World. There are 19 polar bear populations on the planet — 13 of them in Canada — and none is as accessible as in Churchill, which draws an estimated 10,000 visitors every year. If you’d like to scratch your itch for bear sighting in Baffin Bay or Tuktoyaktuk, N.W.T., you’ll probably need float planes, ski-touring gear and a solid knowledge of igloo architecture. But in Churchill, all it takes is a whole lot of disposable income. With hotels, ranger stations and perky multilingual guides, the town is entirely geared toward the modern ecotourist. For the modest sum of $11,349 (per person), you can have the “Ultimate Polar Bear Experience”: 10 days in the Tundra Buggy Lodge, essentially an oversized RV parked at the water’s edge.

P.S.: my snapshots below are not from Churchill:
left side northern tip of Ellesmere Island. CFS Alert during August, right side Lincoln Sea ~ 300 km from the North pole.
But I do have family in Churchill visit often and know EXACTLY what`s going on there!
I`ve never seen a footprint of an adult polar bear that weighed less than 900-1000 pounds