National Security Reasons Not To Legalize Pot: Heroin & Mexico

[LaDexter]

The scare tactics used to argue against legalization are always from the same sources:


1. the legal lobby - makes tons of money off drug laws, doesn't care about the US at all
2. the prison guard unions - ditto
3. cop union bosses = more drug laws = more cops = more dues for the leaders


These individuals are full of shit and just care about their own wealth.

 

[Silhouette]

The scare tactics used to argue against legalization are always from the same sources:

These aren't "scare tactics" vv. This is REALITY. And it has many more facets than your myopic view of "legalize weed for everyone!!"

************
So now your utopian ideal is to go from zero to 60 in less than a nanosecond politically? Do you propose eliminating the FDA as well? Maybe issuing a magic carpet and gilded slippers for everyone to walk through the enchanted unicorn forest with?

In the meantime, where gritty and unfortunate reality exist, we will have the Mexican and Columbian cartels filling a huge gap created in those countries' economies by the legalizing of pot in the US. If you think Hard H is going to become available in the corner drugstore for little Jimmy and Janie to play "hey mister!" to get adults to buy it for them legally, you're well...high...

There are so many problems with your lack of a grip on reality in this regard, that it's hard to know where to start. Suffice to say that my post on page one with the two photos is what reality will boil all it down into: Choose one or the other.

Another poster mentioned how devastating legal tobacco and alcohol are to our people. I completely agree. But the "logic" the poster insists the reader engage in is absurd. "Since those things are fucked up and legal, all things fucked up should be legal and we'll just cross our fingers and hope it all works out". It's like saying 'well, we have two rattlesnakes in the house, we might as well let in a hundred more. What does it matter now?' How it matters is that you increase everyone's chances of getting bit, the more snakes you let in. Especially little kids who like to play in low places where the snakes are lurking.

 

[LaDexter]

This is REALITY.

The REALITY is that your GREED and CORRUPTION and absolute lack of any PATRIOTISM to the US cost the US taxpayer $300 billion per year for just pot prohibition.

Your GREED is TREASONOUS.


Pot prohibition "wages war on America" neighborhood by neighborhood. And you don't care about that at all. You are just like a Democrat who cares only about his government check.

 

[BlindBoo]

Yippee! Legal weed for all in the US!! What could go wrong? Answer: it's already going wrong...

As usual the stoner brain only examines the surface of the issue.

Look for, directly proportionately, an increase in heroin sales in the country coming from Mexico as the price of pot plummets with each new legalization and growers free for all (literally) in the US. Pot was a huge part of the Mexican economy and exactly at the time Western states began to legalize pot, the drug wars between cartels in Mexico...all the violence etc. heightened as their competing market share plummeted. Destroying the Mexican market is not something we want to do right now. In your Bob Marley fog, you might not have noticed that when our allies are going broke lately, we can't afford to bail them out. And so, they go asking to Russia and China for handouts. Or the rich arab oil nations...

THINK stoner brains. Put down the dope for five minutes and look at the bigger picture. The two things legalizing pot in the US will do here is 1. Make Mexico import more heroin into our country..reaching our school kids and 2. Make Mexico go looking for another sugar daddy in another part of the world.

You may not like black markets but all in all pot is one of the tamest. And they are real markets with real impacts. Mexico leans heavily on supplying the US with party materials and they always have. It's your choice what substance is most valuable for them to do that with to save their economy. If it can be grown in the ground, they will do it, refine it and bring it here no matter how deadly dangerous it is.

Our heroin epidemic is a real killer, claiming and destroying lives right and left exponentially. I'd much rather trade that for skulking pot dealers here and there and an increase in donuts and twinkie sales.

Monday, 11 Jan 2016 The growing legalization of marijuana in the United States could be starting to put the pinch on one of the biggest exporters of weed through the years to this country: Mexican drug farmers. Is legal pot putting Mexico out of business?

Nov. 15, 2015, A report issued this summer by the Centers for Disease Control found the number of heroin users in the US had grown by almost 300,000 over the last decade, and the increase has occurred among men and women in almost every age group and at all income levels....“Most of the heroin available in the United States comes from Mexico and Colombia,” the DEA notes in its report. We have a clearer picture of who's fueling the US heroin epidemic — and how they're doing it

What an amazing coincidence....in the same exact time frame that Western states were legalizing weed, the same exact countries that used to be famous for their weed imports to the US suddenly switched to really pushing heroin instead!

It's just such an amazing coincidence. Do you think the two situations could be even remotely related to each other?

The pharmaceutical companies and the feds have created the new and improved heroin epidemic. Patient see doctor for pain. Doctor prescribes opium based pain killer. Patient gets relief. Some people begin abusing pain killers. Feds limit doctors in prescribing pain killers. Patient goes back into pain. Finds alternative in illegal heroin. Can't get the dosage right because the black market has no controls. It's no wonder they are dying.

 

[Silhouette]

The pharmaceutical companies and the feds have created the new and improved heroin epidemic. Patient see doctor for pain. Doctor prescribes opium based pain killer. Patient gets relief. Some people begin abusing pain killers. Feds limit doctors in prescribing pain killers. Patient goes back into pain. Finds alternative in illegal heroin. Can't get the dosage right because the black market has no controls. It's no wonder they are dying.

Correct. But if they go to the black market and it's hard to find because the Mexicans have reverted back to selling black market pot, fewer overdoses eh? The only thing illegal weed in the US causes is overdose on Twinkies & fruity pies....maybe potato chips too? Needless to say, one can recover from those overdoses with a good nap and some water.

 

[LaDexter]

Everyone who opposes marijuana legalization doesn't care about:


1. the safety of Americans
2. the Federal Debt and Deficit
3. the overcrowding of prisons, which the US leads the world in packing


Marijuana was initially made illegal by the bureaucrat in charge of alcohol prohibition. He billed the US taxpayer for propaganda like "Reefer Madness" and kept his taxpayer funded job via the disinfo. He was a typical modern day Democrat, who cared only about his government check.

 

[Harry Dresden]

That's why ALL drugs should be decriminalized. Punish the criminal misuse of drugs, think driving while under the influence, providing drugs to juveniles etc. but the drug war is nothing more than a war on civil liberties. Thousands upon thousands of people have been killed, many of them completely innocent bystanders because of this imbecilic policy. The drug war is an abject failure save for the drug cartels, and the prison lobby.

So now your utopian ideal is to go from zero to 60 in less than a nanosecond politically? Do you propose eliminating the FDA as well? Maybe issuing a magic carpet and gilded slippers for everyone to walk through the enchanted unicorn forest with?

In the meantime, where gritty and unfortunate reality exist, we will have the Mexican and Columbian cartels filling a huge gap created in those countries' economies by the legalizing of pot in the US. If you think Hard H is going to become available in the corner drugstore for little Jimmy and Janie to play "hey mister!" to get adults to buy it for them legally, you're well...high...

There are so many problems with your lack of a grip on reality in this regard, that it's hard to know where to start. Suffice to say that my post on page one with the two photos is what reality will boil all it down into: Choose one or the other.

Another poster mentioned how devastating legal tobacco and alcohol are to our people. I completely agree. But the "logic" the poster insists the reader engage in is absurd. "Since those things are fucked up and legal, all things fucked up should be legal and we'll just cross our fingers and hope it all works out". It's like saying 'well, we have two rattlesnakes in the house, we might as well let in a hundred more. What does it matter now?' How it matters is that you increase everyone's chances of getting bit, the more snakes you let in. Especially little kids who like to play in low places where the snakes are lurking.

if that other poster was me....you are full of shit,i never insist you engage in anything,i did what you and other paranoid fucks wont do,point out the hypocrisy of the drug laws in this country...its ok to let people use 2 deadly drugs because of the money they make,and of course how many of those anti-pot people drink and are addicted to cigarettes,so their vices are ok,but yours isnt....get off your holier than thou attitude....

 

[Silhouette]

Everyone who opposes marijuana legalization doesn't care about:


1. the safety of Americans
2. the Federal Debt and Deficit
3. the overcrowding of prisons, which the US leads the world in packing


Marijuana was initially made illegal by the bureaucrat in charge of alcohol prohibition. He billed the US taxpayer for propaganda like "Reefer Madness" and kept his taxpayer funded job via the disinfo. He was a typical modern day Democrat, who cared only about his government check.

Fine. Put dopers in work camps that produce an income for the states they're busted in. Talk about the best punishment. The worst thing to do is put them in a prison where they get 3 meals a day and all the TV they can watch no matter what. Make them work hard while they're sober. The state takes the profit.

You're ignoring that we have a heroin epidemic directly because pot is legal in the US and Mexico is filling that new economic void with another black market substance much more deadly.

 

[westwall]

t economically, morally, and civil liberty wise it would be far better to decriminalize all drugs, thus putting an entire government/cartel industry out of business.
.

The government you'd be putting out of business is Mexico. Nature abhors a vacuum and so the Russians, Chinese and ME oil countries will fill it. Hardly in the interest of our national security. But then if we're all laced up on any legal drug we like, we won't notice or care that we will cease to exist shortly as a nation.

Also your system demands extraordinary amounts of self control when it comes to personal indulgences. The homo sapiens I know here on planet of the apes is more akin to the TV show "my 600lb life" than they are to Ghandi's or the Buddha's teachings. Yet somehow that reality hasn't seeped into your equation. Maybe you have self-control where you think your utopia will work. But I can guarantee you that 90% of the rest of the country do not. That's something you might want to ponder for awhile. The same people guzzling beer and smoking 2 packs a day (know of any of those?) of cigarettes are the same folks who will be using that same self control to any other legal drug they can get ahold of at the market.

That's why I included "national security" in my title. When it is concerned, those in charge of it with brains (are there any left?) cut out the fluff and wishful thinking and get down to the brass tacks of what actually lays before them. And they apply logic. Or at least they used to. I think the machine is on auto-pilot these days. The lights are on in the Office but nobody is there.

Mexico's government is already a wholly owned subsidiary of the drug cartels. One drug lord, Alberto Sicila Falcone when arrested waaay back in the 1980's was carrying I.D. that showed he was the Number Two man in the Mexican Secret Police. The US on the other hand, has an enormous legal/prison industry that would see significant personnel reductions with the concurrent decrease in taxpayer cost.

Reality is to look back at Prohibition and how exactly did that work out for us? Oh yeah, thousands died, the government was corrupted by the booze lords, and innocent people died.

Sound familiar?

 

[BlindBoo]

The only thing illegal weed in the US causes is overdose on Twinkies & fruity pies

Illegal pot makes criminals of otherwise productive members of society and puts hundreds of thousands of lives in legal jeopardy every year. I agree with Westwall.

 

[Silhouette]

This is REALITY.

The REALITY is that your GREED and CORRUPTION and absolute lack of any PATRIOTISM to the US cost the US taxpayer $300 billion per year for just pot prohibition.

Your GREED is TREASONOUS.


Pot prohibition "wages war on America" neighborhood by neighborhood. And you don't care about that at all. You are just like a Democrat who cares only about his government check.

Are you sure you're on the right thread? Mexican economy? Heroin? Any of this sinking in? Check the dates on the heroin escalation coming from Mexico and when the Western states started legalizing pot. You'd call it a coincidence. The cartels call it "business".

 

[Silhouette]

The only thing illegal weed in the US causes is overdose on Twinkies & fruity pies

Illegal pot makes criminals of otherwise productive members of society and puts hundreds of thousands of lives in legal jeopardy every year. I agree with Westwall.

And, my solution was instead of putting people in prison, put them to work for states until they work off fines etc. The solution doesn't have to be black and white. The heroin situation and our relationship with our New World ally is at stake.

 

[westwall]

The only thing illegal weed in the US causes is overdose on Twinkies & fruity pies

Illegal pot makes criminals of otherwise productive members of society and puts hundreds of thousands of lives in legal jeopardy every year. I agree with Westwall.

And, my solution was instead of putting people in prison, put them to work for states until they work off fines etc. The solution doesn't have to be black and white. The heroin situation and our relationship with our New World ally is at stake.

Our New World "Ally" looks to us as a ship of fools that it can pluck. So long as drugs are illegal that "ally" will continue to pocket enormous amounts of cash for a product that otherwise would be cheap. So cheap that there is no reason TOO commit a crime to fuel the addiction. My dentist is one of the very few who is licensed to use pure cocaine for dental procedures. There are about 20 people in the Northern California region who's only option for anesthesia is cocaine. He has a single small vial which on the street would be worth over 1,000 dollars. He buys it direct from the government for 100 bucks.

That is how much the laws raise the cost. THAT is the reason for the burglary's that are constantly occurring. I would be happy for the government to buy a hotel and put up all the addicts in it. They would be provided food, and medical care. That would orders of magnitude cheaper than the crime that occurs to support the drug cartels.

 

[Silhouette]

Our New World "Ally" looks to us as a ship of fools that it can pluck. So long as drugs are illegal that "ally" will continue to pocket enormous amounts of cash for a product that otherwise would be cheap.

....so....I'll put you down for "ruin 1/4 of the Mexican economy as a convenience to American potheads." I'm sure this will be excellent not only for stability in Mexico, but also for the entire North American region in general. Well worth it too. Why didn't I think of that? M'gosh, how could anyone deprive potheads of what they want...no matter what?

Get ready for more heroin here then. Cuz it's a-comin'. Those cartels aren't going to pack it up and go make tacos at the mercado as a substitute. The escalation in extreme violence in the Mexican cartels STARTED when pot became legal in various places here. Their markets were shrinking and competition that never existed between cartels came with the market flood Stateside. So of course rivals had to be bumped off if the more dominant cartels were to retain the ability to continue to profit. WE destabilized that equilibrium. And you think making pot legal in all 50 states is going to decrease violence in Mexico? As they shift over to pure heroin to replace pot sales, there will be much more jockeying and violence to secure the dominance in those markets until it too reaches an equilibrium. At that point you can bring a broom with you to work to sweep the dead bodies out of the way from overdoses that will be littering the streets everywhere in the US.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Everyone who opposes marijuana legalization doesn't care about:


1. the safety of Americans
2. the Federal Debt and Deficit
3. the overcrowding of prisons, which the US leads the world in packing


Marijuana was initially made illegal by the bureaucrat in charge of alcohol prohibition. He billed the US taxpayer for propaganda like "Reefer Madness" and kept his taxpayer funded job via the disinfo. He was a typical modern day Democrat, who cared only about his government check.

Fine. Put dopers in work camps that produce an income for the states they're busted in. Talk about the best punishment. The worst thing to do is put them in a prison where they get 3 meals a day and all the TV they can watch no matter what. Make them work hard while they're sober. The state takes the profit.

You're ignoring that we have a heroin epidemic directly because pot is legal in the US and Mexico is filling that new economic void with another black market substance much more deadly.

You're ignoring that we have a heroin epidemic directly because pot is legal in the US
your blaming pot for the heroin epidemic?...thats like the people who blame the gun when someone is shot....

 

[Silhouette]

your blaming pot for the heroin epidemic?...thats like the people who blame the gun when someone is shot....

Apples and oranges. The cartels are in business to make money easily with things they can grow in the mild climate of Mexico. Their efforts, though technically illegal are ignored because they funnel in around 1/4 of the entire Mexican economy (or more) Are you still with me? That used to be pot. Then, when pot became legal here and the markets flooded therefore, the cartels, like any good businessmen, simply switched to another black market item they could grow, process and push for profits in the US. After all, they're not dumb. You can't sell snow cones to Eskimos. That new market item happens to be highly addictive heroin.

That's the thing with pure capitalism, it sees the black markets as the most coveted. You get guys like those cartels that would kill their own mom for a profit and you've got the reason for the heroin epidemic in the US. I'm saying since we've been trying to kill off the mushroom-cartel economy for decades now and haven't made an inch of progress, we would be wise to cut our losses and decide which substance we want to prop the Mex economy up with: pot, or heroin. For details on both, refer to the post on page one with the big pictures. (#8)

Your welcome for the explanation.

 

[Godboy]

Yippee! Legal weed for all in the US!! What could go wrong? Answer: it's already going wrong...

As usual the stoner brain only examines the surface of the issue.

Look for, directly proportionately, an increase in heroin sales in the country coming from Mexico as the price of pot plummets with each new legalization and growers free for all (literally) in the US. Pot was a huge part of the Mexican economy and exactly at the time Western states began to legalize pot, the drug wars between cartels in Mexico...all the violence etc. heightened as their competing market share plummeted. Destroying the Mexican market is not something we want to do right now. In your Bob Marley fog, you might not have noticed that when our allies are going broke lately, we can't afford to bail them out. And so, they go asking to Russia and China for handouts. Or the rich arab oil nations...

THINK stoner brains. Put down the dope for five minutes and look at the bigger picture. The two things legalizing pot in the US will do here is 1. Make Mexico import more heroin into our country..reaching our school kids and 2. Make Mexico go looking for another sugar daddy in another part of the world.

You may not like black markets but all in all pot is one of the tamest. And they are real markets with real impacts. Mexico leans heavily on supplying the US with party materials and they always have. It's your choice what substance is most valuable for them to do that with to save their economy. If it can be grown in the ground, they will do it, refine it and bring it here no matter how deadly dangerous it is.

Our heroin epidemic is a real killer, claiming and destroying lives right and left exponentially. I'd much rather trade that for skulking pot dealers here and there and an increase in donuts and twinkie sales.

Monday, 11 Jan 2016 The growing legalization of marijuana in the United States could be starting to put the pinch on one of the biggest exporters of weed through the years to this country: Mexican drug farmers. Is legal pot putting Mexico out of business?

Nov. 15, 2015, A report issued this summer by the Centers for Disease Control found the number of heroin users in the US had grown by almost 300,000 over the last decade, and the increase has occurred among men and women in almost every age group and at all income levels....“Most of the heroin available in the United States comes from Mexico and Colombia,” the DEA notes in its report. We have a clearer picture of who's fueling the US heroin epidemic — and how they're doing it

What an amazing coincidence....in the same exact time frame that Western states were legalizing weed, the same exact countries that used to be famous for their weed imports to the US suddenly switched to really pushing heroin instead!

It's just such an amazing coincidence. Do you think the two situations could be even remotely related to each other?

Heroin is a super niche kind of drug. It requires way too much work; you gotta cook it in a spoon, get a needle, put it in the needle, tie off your arm, find a vein, then finally inject it. After its all said and done, you just lay there drolling while shitting your pants at the same time. This isnt exactly a "party" drug. Kids arent going to go out in droves and get high on heroin together. There will be no heroin epidemic. Quit being stupid.

 

[Silhouette]

Heroin is a super niche kind of drug. Its requires way too much work; you gotta cook it in a spoon, get a needle, put it in the needle, tie off your arm, find a vein, then finally inject it. After its all said and done, you just lay back and do nothing as you drift into a dream world. This isnt exactly a "party" drug. Kids arent going to go out in droves and get high on heroin together. There will be no heroin epidemic. Quit being stupid.

And yet the CDC put out an article in 2015 stating that the heroin epidemic is escalating and crossing all social demographics...including children "party kids". In today's unbelievably stressful world..you'd better believe that if the kids are routinely doing Molly at rave parties and such, they're not going to turn their nose up at that cool new drug that reaaaaaaaaaalllllllly mellows you out...

 

[Godboy]

Heroin is a super niche kind of drug. Its requires way too much work; you gotta cook it in a spoon, get a needle, put it in the needle, tie off your arm, find a vein, then finally inject it. After its all said and done, you just lay back and do nothing as you drift into a dream world. This isnt exactly a "party" drug. Kids arent going to go out in droves and get high on heroin together. There will be no heroin epidemic. Quit being stupid.

And yet the CDC put out an article in 2015 stating that the heroin epidemic is escalating and crossing all social demographics...including children "party kids". In today's unbelievably stressful world..you'd better believe that if the kids are routinely doing Molly at rave parties and such, they're not going to turn their nose up at that cool new drug that reaaaaaaaaaalllllllly mellows you out...

What percentage of the population do you think uses heroin? When you google the answer, thats when youll realize how dumb your thread is. There is no "epidemic".

 

[Harry Dresden]

your blaming pot for the heroin epidemic?...thats like the people who blame the gun when someone is shot....

Apples and oranges. The cartels are in business to make money easily with things they can grow in the mild climate of Mexico. Their efforts, though technically illegal are ignored because they funnel in around 1/4 of the entire Mexican economy (or more) Are you still with me? That used to be pot. Then, when pot became legal here and the markets flooded therefore, the cartels, like any good businessmen, simply switched to another black market item they could grow, process and push for profits in the US. After all, they're not dumb. You can't sell snow cones to Eskimos. That new market item happens to be highly addictive heroin.

That's the thing with pure capitalism, it sees the black markets as the most coveted. You get guys like those cartels that would kill their own mom for a profit and you've got the reason for the heroin epidemic in the US. I'm saying since we've been trying to kill off the mushroom-cartel economy for decades now and haven't made an inch of progress, we would be wise to cut our losses and decide which substance we want to prop the Mex economy up with: pot, or heroin. For details on both, refer to the post on page one with the big pictures. (#8)

Your welcome for the explanation.

you mean the explanation that only you seem to buy?...not to many seem to agree with your "explanation"....you are just another paranoid anti-pot person who eats up the reefer madness type bullshit.....