Never tell me America is racist: An open letter to protesters

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Temps first post " But never tell me America is racist. "

Temp after he confused himself:. " Of course, racism still exists in America "

Lol. You can't discern nuance, can you?

I think I hear what you're saying--that institutionally and ideologically, America is not racist. Our laws are fair. We do not discourage diversity. You acknowledge that some individuals are racist, though.

The only thing you're forgetting is that every single law, regulation and ideal actually is enacted by individuals. Otherwise, those laws would mean nothing. They have to be put into action by individuals. When those people are racist or even unconsciously believe that blacks are more dangerous, more suspect, than whites, it cannot be fair.

" I think I hear what you're saying--that institutionally and ideologically, America is not racist. "


I disagree even with that statement that Temp lacked the ability to articulate. There is systemic/institutional racism in the US. You cant have racism without the supporting ideology.

I'd really be interested if you would take a deeper dive into some of this. What is institutionally racist? Where has the justice system written it into policy? I'm not arguing with you, I'm asking for some specifics, because I don't know much about it. It is ridiculous for me to even try to defend BLM except on general principle, because I don't really understand what specifically they are asking for.

This is kind of starting in the middle and I'm not claiming to speak for Asclepias but this might give you some insight into the mindset of those during this era

"Convict Leasing and Chain Gangs

Bankrupt in the wake of the Civil War and faced with the difficult task of rebuilding and sustaining an infrastructure, Mississippi and other state governments turned to a familiar expedient to fund their penal institutions. In the late 1860s many southern prisons began leasing convicts to plantations and industries bereft of the cheap labor formerly supplied by slaves. As the majority of inmates were African American, this new form of compulsory labor helped to bridge the gap between the Black Codes and Jim Crow as a form of social control that embodied the common racial hierarchies in the South. Likewise, vagrancy laws criminalized the social mobility recently acquired by former slaves and produced a steady supply of bodies for the prison labor system.

Although prisoners in the convict lease system were used for a variety of arduous tasks from railroad construction to cutting timber, inmates in Mississippi worked primarily on large cotton plantations. Edward Richardson, a plantation owner who had lost his fortune in the Civil War, was perhaps the state’s greatest beneficiary of prison labor. The first to have a convict contract with the state, officials paid Richardson eighteen thousand dollars a year for “care” of the prisoners. With the added income from the profits of their labor, he eventually regained his wealth, setting an inspiring precedent for the southern business community.

After reaching its acme in the 1880s, the convict leasing era wound down as a consequence of accusations that too many affluent southerners had profited from the system and of moral indignation over the treatment of convicts. Inmates were forced to work dangerous jobs that free laborers refused to take and were subject to wanton physical punishment and severe deprivation, conditions that resulted in high death rates among the prison population. Outrage was further fueled by the fact that the state did not maintain separate facilities or mandate special treatment for children, and many were leased out under the system. Publicity regarding these deplorable realities led to a public outcry that forced Mississippi to abolish convict leasing in 1890, the first state to do so.

Individual counties, however, retained the right to use prison labor, and county-run chain gangs replaced convict labor in the early 1900s. Cuffed together at the ankle in small groups, prisoners were put to work expanding and repairing transportation routes as part of the Good Roads Movement, an urbanization effort aimed at increasing accessibility in the South. Though considered a troubling part of the past today, this use of convicts was generally championed in its time, and supporters, including the US Department of Agriculture, considered it an efficient and progressive way to both build roads and control criminals.

As with the convict lease system, most of the chain gang laborers were African Americans, who were thought to require a generous measure of discipline for proper “rehabilitation.” But convicts on county-run chain gangs often slept in cages and were subject to brutal corporal punishment and suffered from a host of debilitating ailments, including malnutrition, heatstroke, frostbite, contagious diseases, and shackle poisoning (infections caused by the constant rubbing of iron against the skin). Work songs helped to sustain morale and increase chances of survival, allowing prisoners to labor in a steady rhythm that could be slowed to protect the infirm or inefficient. As with the convict lease system, mounting public outrage resulted in bans on chain gangs nationwide by the mid-twentieth century.

Mississippi consolidated much of its convict labor force on Parchman Farm, a profitable and self-sustaining penal cotton plantation located on twenty thousand acres in the Yazoo Delta. Parchman was established in 1904 by Gov. James K. Vardaman, a proponent of prison reform who billed himself as a progressive and visionary but who regarded African Americans as mentally inferior and touted a paternalistic brand of racism that envisioned a pacified black population reconciled to subordinate social position.

• Written by Kathryn Radishofski, Columbia University "

Convict Leasing and Chain Gangs | Mississippi Encyclopedia

Notice how that is HISTORY and not common practice now.

You don't see the parallel?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Temps first post " But never tell me America is racist. "

Temp after he confused himself:. " Of course, racism still exists in America "

Lol. You can't discern nuance, can you?

I think I hear what you're saying--that institutionally and ideologically, America is not racist. Our laws are fair. We do not discourage diversity. You acknowledge that some individuals are racist, though.

The only thing you're forgetting is that every single law, regulation and ideal actually is enacted by individuals. Otherwise, those laws would mean nothing. They have to be put into action by individuals. When those people are racist or even unconsciously believe that blacks are more dangerous, more suspect, than whites, it cannot be fair.

" I think I hear what you're saying--that institutionally and ideologically, America is not racist. "


I disagree even with that statement that Temp lacked the ability to articulate. There is systemic/institutional racism in the US. You cant have racism without the supporting ideology.

I'd really be interested if you would take a deeper dive into some of this. What is institutionally racist? Where has the justice system written it into policy? I'm not arguing with you, I'm asking for some specifics, because I don't know much about it. It is ridiculous for me to even try to defend BLM except on general principle, because I don't really understand what specifically they are asking for.

This is kind of starting in the middle and I'm not claiming to speak for Asclepias but this might give you some insight into the mindset of those during this era

"Convict Leasing and Chain Gangs

Bankrupt in the wake of the Civil War and faced with the difficult task of rebuilding and sustaining an infrastructure, Mississippi and other state governments turned to a familiar expedient to fund their penal institutions. In the late 1860s many southern prisons began leasing convicts to plantations and industries bereft of the cheap labor formerly supplied by slaves. As the majority of inmates were African American, this new form of compulsory labor helped to bridge the gap between the Black Codes and Jim Crow as a form of social control that embodied the common racial hierarchies in the South. Likewise, vagrancy laws criminalized the social mobility recently acquired by former slaves and produced a steady supply of bodies for the prison labor system.

Although prisoners in the convict lease system were used for a variety of arduous tasks from railroad construction to cutting timber, inmates in Mississippi worked primarily on large cotton plantations. Edward Richardson, a plantation owner who had lost his fortune in the Civil War, was perhaps the state’s greatest beneficiary of prison labor. The first to have a convict contract with the state, officials paid Richardson eighteen thousand dollars a year for “care” of the prisoners. With the added income from the profits of their labor, he eventually regained his wealth, setting an inspiring precedent for the southern business community.

After reaching its acme in the 1880s, the convict leasing era wound down as a consequence of accusations that too many affluent southerners had profited from the system and of moral indignation over the treatment of convicts. Inmates were forced to work dangerous jobs that free laborers refused to take and were subject to wanton physical punishment and severe deprivation, conditions that resulted in high death rates among the prison population. Outrage was further fueled by the fact that the state did not maintain separate facilities or mandate special treatment for children, and many were leased out under the system. Publicity regarding these deplorable realities led to a public outcry that forced Mississippi to abolish convict leasing in 1890, the first state to do so.

Individual counties, however, retained the right to use prison labor, and county-run chain gangs replaced convict labor in the early 1900s. Cuffed together at the ankle in small groups, prisoners were put to work expanding and repairing transportation routes as part of the Good Roads Movement, an urbanization effort aimed at increasing accessibility in the South. Though considered a troubling part of the past today, this use of convicts was generally championed in its time, and supporters, including the US Department of Agriculture, considered it an efficient and progressive way to both build roads and control criminals.

As with the convict lease system, most of the chain gang laborers were African Americans, who were thought to require a generous measure of discipline for proper “rehabilitation.” But convicts on county-run chain gangs often slept in cages and were subject to brutal corporal punishment and suffered from a host of debilitating ailments, including malnutrition, heatstroke, frostbite, contagious diseases, and shackle poisoning (infections caused by the constant rubbing of iron against the skin). Work songs helped to sustain morale and increase chances of survival, allowing prisoners to labor in a steady rhythm that could be slowed to protect the infirm or inefficient. As with the convict lease system, mounting public outrage resulted in bans on chain gangs nationwide by the mid-twentieth century.

Mississippi consolidated much of its convict labor force on Parchman Farm, a profitable and self-sustaining penal cotton plantation located on twenty thousand acres in the Yazoo Delta. Parchman was established in 1904 by Gov. James K. Vardaman, a proponent of prison reform who billed himself as a progressive and visionary but who regarded African Americans as mentally inferior and touted a paternalistic brand of racism that envisioned a pacified black population reconciled to subordinate social position.

• Written by Kathryn Radishofski, Columbia University "

Convict Leasing and Chain Gangs | Mississippi Encyclopedia

SHAPIRO: 8 Leftist Myths About Race & Racism In America | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

I would have loved to read this but they want me to subscribe or provide my email address which I'm not inclined to do.

Summary?

Temps first post " But never tell me America is racist. "

Temp after he confused himself:. " Of course, racism still exists in America "

Lol. You can't discern nuance, can you?

I think I hear what you're saying--that institutionally and ideologically, America is not racist. Our laws are fair. We do not discourage diversity. You acknowledge that some individuals are racist, though.

The only thing you're forgetting is that every single law, regulation and ideal actually is enacted by individuals. Otherwise, those laws would mean nothing. They have to be put into action by individuals. When those people are racist or even unconsciously believe that blacks are more dangerous, more suspect, than whites, it cannot be fair.

" I think I hear what you're saying--that institutionally and ideologically, America is not racist. "


I disagree even with that statement that Temp lacked the ability to articulate. There is systemic/institutional racism in the US. You cant have racism without the supporting ideology.

I'd really be interested if you would take a deeper dive into some of this. What is institutionally racist? Where has the justice system written it into policy? I'm not arguing with you, I'm asking for some specifics, because I don't know much about it. It is ridiculous for me to even try to defend BLM except on general principle, because I don't really understand what specifically they are asking for.

This is kind of starting in the middle and I'm not claiming to speak for Asclepias but this might give you some insight into the mindset of those during this era

"Convict Leasing and Chain Gangs

Bankrupt in the wake of the Civil War and faced with the difficult task of rebuilding and sustaining an infrastructure, Mississippi and other state governments turned to a familiar expedient to fund their penal institutions. In the late 1860s many southern prisons began leasing convicts to plantations and industries bereft of the cheap labor formerly supplied by slaves. As the majority of inmates were African American, this new form of compulsory labor helped to bridge the gap between the Black Codes and Jim Crow as a form of social control that embodied the common racial hierarchies in the South. Likewise, vagrancy laws criminalized the social mobility recently acquired by former slaves and produced a steady supply of bodies for the prison labor system.

Although prisoners in the convict lease system were used for a variety of arduous tasks from railroad construction to cutting timber, inmates in Mississippi worked primarily on large cotton plantations. Edward Richardson, a plantation owner who had lost his fortune in the Civil War, was perhaps the state’s greatest beneficiary of prison labor. The first to have a convict contract with the state, officials paid Richardson eighteen thousand dollars a year for “care” of the prisoners. With the added income from the profits of their labor, he eventually regained his wealth, setting an inspiring precedent for the southern business community.

After reaching its acme in the 1880s, the convict leasing era wound down as a consequence of accusations that too many affluent southerners had profited from the system and of moral indignation over the treatment of convicts. Inmates were forced to work dangerous jobs that free laborers refused to take and were subject to wanton physical punishment and severe deprivation, conditions that resulted in high death rates among the prison population. Outrage was further fueled by the fact that the state did not maintain separate facilities or mandate special treatment for children, and many were leased out under the system. Publicity regarding these deplorable realities led to a public outcry that forced Mississippi to abolish convict leasing in 1890, the first state to do so.

Individual counties, however, retained the right to use prison labor, and county-run chain gangs replaced convict labor in the early 1900s. Cuffed together at the ankle in small groups, prisoners were put to work expanding and repairing transportation routes as part of the Good Roads Movement, an urbanization effort aimed at increasing accessibility in the South. Though considered a troubling part of the past today, this use of convicts was generally championed in its time, and supporters, including the US Department of Agriculture, considered it an efficient and progressive way to both build roads and control criminals.

As with the convict lease system, most of the chain gang laborers were African Americans, who were thought to require a generous measure of discipline for proper “rehabilitation.” But convicts on county-run chain gangs often slept in cages and were subject to brutal corporal punishment and suffered from a host of debilitating ailments, including malnutrition, heatstroke, frostbite, contagious diseases, and shackle poisoning (infections caused by the constant rubbing of iron against the skin). Work songs helped to sustain morale and increase chances of survival, allowing prisoners to labor in a steady rhythm that could be slowed to protect the infirm or inefficient. As with the convict lease system, mounting public outrage resulted in bans on chain gangs nationwide by the mid-twentieth century.

Mississippi consolidated much of its convict labor force on Parchman Farm, a profitable and self-sustaining penal cotton plantation located on twenty thousand acres in the Yazoo Delta. Parchman was established in 1904 by Gov. James K. Vardaman, a proponent of prison reform who billed himself as a progressive and visionary but who regarded African Americans as mentally inferior and touted a paternalistic brand of racism that envisioned a pacified black population reconciled to subordinate social position.

• Written by Kathryn Radishofski, Columbia University "

Convict Leasing and Chain Gangs | Mississippi Encyclopedia

SHAPIRO: 8 Leftist Myths About Race & Racism In America | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

I would have loved to read this but they want me to subscribe or provide my email address which I'm not inclined to do.

Summary?

MythAll white people are inherently beneficiaries of “white privilege.”

Fact: The Left’s “white privilege” narrative is false, used to divide and silence, and promotes racist assumptions.

But the Left suggests that because America has been replete with racism and bigotry historically, that means that racism pervades American society now. That’s not only untrue, it’s a cruel lie. Furthermore, we cannot acknowledge the racism that swamped America for two centuries without also acknowledging the central natural law principles that eventually led Americans to fight against that racism — that led hundreds of thousands of white Americans to die for the freedom of their black brothers in slavery, that led whites to march with blacks and legislate on behalf of blacks to end Jim Crow, that has created the most successful multiethnic democracy on the planet

Case in point.

I have been trying to say that for the past 6 hours to Asclepias and IM2

But I have other things to do.

 

[Asclepias]

Temp: America not racist

Me: h***y please.

Confederate monuments and memorials - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Temps first post " But never tell me America is racist. "

Temp after he confused himself:. " Of course, racism still exists in America "

Lol. You can't discern nuance, can you?

I think I hear what you're saying--that institutionally and ideologically, America is not racist. Our laws are fair. We do not discourage diversity. You acknowledge that some individuals are racist, though.

The only thing you're forgetting is that every single law, regulation and ideal actually is enacted by individuals. Otherwise, those laws would mean nothing. They have to be put into action by individuals. When those people are racist or even unconsciously believe that blacks are more dangerous, more suspect, than whites, it cannot be fair.

" I think I hear what you're saying--that institutionally and ideologically, America is not racist. "


I disagree even with that statement that Temp lacked the ability to articulate. There is systemic/institutional racism in the US. You cant have racism without the supporting ideology.

I'd really be interested if you would take a deeper dive into some of this. What is institutionally racist? Where has the justice system written it into policy? I'm not arguing with you, I'm asking for some specifics, because I don't know much about it. It is ridiculous for me to even try to defend BLM except on general principle, because I don't really understand what specifically they are asking for.

This is kind of starting in the middle and I'm not claiming to speak for Asclepias but this might give you some insight into the mindset of those during this era

"Convict Leasing and Chain Gangs

Bankrupt in the wake of the Civil War and faced with the difficult task of rebuilding and sustaining an infrastructure, Mississippi and other state governments turned to a familiar expedient to fund their penal institutions. In the late 1860s many southern prisons began leasing convicts to plantations and industries bereft of the cheap labor formerly supplied by slaves. As the majority of inmates were African American, this new form of compulsory labor helped to bridge the gap between the Black Codes and Jim Crow as a form of social control that embodied the common racial hierarchies in the South. Likewise, vagrancy laws criminalized the social mobility recently acquired by former slaves and produced a steady supply of bodies for the prison labor system.

Although prisoners in the convict lease system were used for a variety of arduous tasks from railroad construction to cutting timber, inmates in Mississippi worked primarily on large cotton plantations. Edward Richardson, a plantation owner who had lost his fortune in the Civil War, was perhaps the state’s greatest beneficiary of prison labor. The first to have a convict contract with the state, officials paid Richardson eighteen thousand dollars a year for “care” of the prisoners. With the added income from the profits of their labor, he eventually regained his wealth, setting an inspiring precedent for the southern business community.

After reaching its acme in the 1880s, the convict leasing era wound down as a consequence of accusations that too many affluent southerners had profited from the system and of moral indignation over the treatment of convicts. Inmates were forced to work dangerous jobs that free laborers refused to take and were subject to wanton physical punishment and severe deprivation, conditions that resulted in high death rates among the prison population. Outrage was further fueled by the fact that the state did not maintain separate facilities or mandate special treatment for children, and many were leased out under the system. Publicity regarding these deplorable realities led to a public outcry that forced Mississippi to abolish convict leasing in 1890, the first state to do so.

Individual counties, however, retained the right to use prison labor, and county-run chain gangs replaced convict labor in the early 1900s. Cuffed together at the ankle in small groups, prisoners were put to work expanding and repairing transportation routes as part of the Good Roads Movement, an urbanization effort aimed at increasing accessibility in the South. Though considered a troubling part of the past today, this use of convicts was generally championed in its time, and supporters, including the US Department of Agriculture, considered it an efficient and progressive way to both build roads and control criminals.

As with the convict lease system, most of the chain gang laborers were African Americans, who were thought to require a generous measure of discipline for proper “rehabilitation.” But convicts on county-run chain gangs often slept in cages and were subject to brutal corporal punishment and suffered from a host of debilitating ailments, including malnutrition, heatstroke, frostbite, contagious diseases, and shackle poisoning (infections caused by the constant rubbing of iron against the skin). Work songs helped to sustain morale and increase chances of survival, allowing prisoners to labor in a steady rhythm that could be slowed to protect the infirm or inefficient. As with the convict lease system, mounting public outrage resulted in bans on chain gangs nationwide by the mid-twentieth century.

Mississippi consolidated much of its convict labor force on Parchman Farm, a profitable and self-sustaining penal cotton plantation located on twenty thousand acres in the Yazoo Delta. Parchman was established in 1904 by Gov. James K. Vardaman, a proponent of prison reform who billed himself as a progressive and visionary but who regarded African Americans as mentally inferior and touted a paternalistic brand of racism that envisioned a pacified black population reconciled to subordinate social position.

• Written by Kathryn Radishofski, Columbia University "

Convict Leasing and Chain Gangs | Mississippi Encyclopedia

Notice how that is HISTORY and not common practice now.

You don't see the parallel?

You don’t see your whining is not making things any better? You cannot stop a racist by being racist and the rhetoric here doesn’t make those who aren’t racist give two shits. Whining is for pussies.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Temps first post " But never tell me America is racist. "

Temp after he confused himself:. " Of course, racism still exists in America "

Lol. You can't discern nuance, can you?

I think I hear what you're saying--that institutionally and ideologically, America is not racist. Our laws are fair. We do not discourage diversity. You acknowledge that some individuals are racist, though.

The only thing you're forgetting is that every single law, regulation and ideal actually is enacted by individuals. Otherwise, those laws would mean nothing. They have to be put into action by individuals. When those people are racist or even unconsciously believe that blacks are more dangerous, more suspect, than whites, it cannot be fair.

" I think I hear what you're saying--that institutionally and ideologically, America is not racist. "


I disagree even with that statement that Temp lacked the ability to articulate. There is systemic/institutional racism in the US. You cant have racism without the supporting ideology.

I'd really be interested if you would take a deeper dive into some of this. What is institutionally racist? Where has the justice system written it into policy? I'm not arguing with you, I'm asking for some specifics, because I don't know much about it. It is ridiculous for me to even try to defend BLM except on general principle, because I don't really understand what specifically they are asking for.

This is kind of starting in the middle and I'm not claiming to speak for Asclepias but this might give you some insight into the mindset of those during this era

"Convict Leasing and Chain Gangs

Bankrupt in the wake of the Civil War and faced with the difficult task of rebuilding and sustaining an infrastructure, Mississippi and other state governments turned to a familiar expedient to fund their penal institutions. In the late 1860s many southern prisons began leasing convicts to plantations and industries bereft of the cheap labor formerly supplied by slaves. As the majority of inmates were African American, this new form of compulsory labor helped to bridge the gap between the Black Codes and Jim Crow as a form of social control that embodied the common racial hierarchies in the South. Likewise, vagrancy laws criminalized the social mobility recently acquired by former slaves and produced a steady supply of bodies for the prison labor system.

Although prisoners in the convict lease system were used for a variety of arduous tasks from railroad construction to cutting timber, inmates in Mississippi worked primarily on large cotton plantations. Edward Richardson, a plantation owner who had lost his fortune in the Civil War, was perhaps the state’s greatest beneficiary of prison labor. The first to have a convict contract with the state, officials paid Richardson eighteen thousand dollars a year for “care” of the prisoners. With the added income from the profits of their labor, he eventually regained his wealth, setting an inspiring precedent for the southern business community.

After reaching its acme in the 1880s, the convict leasing era wound down as a consequence of accusations that too many affluent southerners had profited from the system and of moral indignation over the treatment of convicts. Inmates were forced to work dangerous jobs that free laborers refused to take and were subject to wanton physical punishment and severe deprivation, conditions that resulted in high death rates among the prison population. Outrage was further fueled by the fact that the state did not maintain separate facilities or mandate special treatment for children, and many were leased out under the system. Publicity regarding these deplorable realities led to a public outcry that forced Mississippi to abolish convict leasing in 1890, the first state to do so.

Individual counties, however, retained the right to use prison labor, and county-run chain gangs replaced convict labor in the early 1900s. Cuffed together at the ankle in small groups, prisoners were put to work expanding and repairing transportation routes as part of the Good Roads Movement, an urbanization effort aimed at increasing accessibility in the South. Though considered a troubling part of the past today, this use of convicts was generally championed in its time, and supporters, including the US Department of Agriculture, considered it an efficient and progressive way to both build roads and control criminals.

As with the convict lease system, most of the chain gang laborers were African Americans, who were thought to require a generous measure of discipline for proper “rehabilitation.” But convicts on county-run chain gangs often slept in cages and were subject to brutal corporal punishment and suffered from a host of debilitating ailments, including malnutrition, heatstroke, frostbite, contagious diseases, and shackle poisoning (infections caused by the constant rubbing of iron against the skin). Work songs helped to sustain morale and increase chances of survival, allowing prisoners to labor in a steady rhythm that could be slowed to protect the infirm or inefficient. As with the convict lease system, mounting public outrage resulted in bans on chain gangs nationwide by the mid-twentieth century.

Mississippi consolidated much of its convict labor force on Parchman Farm, a profitable and self-sustaining penal cotton plantation located on twenty thousand acres in the Yazoo Delta. Parchman was established in 1904 by Gov. James K. Vardaman, a proponent of prison reform who billed himself as a progressive and visionary but who regarded African Americans as mentally inferior and touted a paternalistic brand of racism that envisioned a pacified black population reconciled to subordinate social position.

• Written by Kathryn Radishofski, Columbia University "

Convict Leasing and Chain Gangs | Mississippi Encyclopedia

Notice how that is HISTORY and not common practice now.

You don't see the parallel?

I do. But that doesn't change the fact such inhuman practices don't exist in the present. If it did, I would understand your argument completely.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Temps first post " But never tell me America is racist. "

Temp after he confused himself:. " Of course, racism still exists in America "

Lol. You can't discern nuance, can you?

I think I hear what you're saying--that institutionally and ideologically, America is not racist. Our laws are fair. We do not discourage diversity. You acknowledge that some individuals are racist, though.

The only thing you're forgetting is that every single law, regulation and ideal actually is enacted by individuals. Otherwise, those laws would mean nothing. They have to be put into action by individuals. When those people are racist or even unconsciously believe that blacks are more dangerous, more suspect, than whites, it cannot be fair.

" I think I hear what you're saying--that institutionally and ideologically, America is not racist. "


I disagree even with that statement that Temp lacked the ability to articulate. There is systemic/institutional racism in the US. You cant have racism without the supporting ideology.

I'd really be interested if you would take a deeper dive into some of this. What is institutionally racist? Where has the justice system written it into policy? I'm not arguing with you, I'm asking for some specifics, because I don't know much about it. It is ridiculous for me to even try to defend BLM except on general principle, because I don't really understand what specifically they are asking for.

This is kind of starting in the middle and I'm not claiming to speak for Asclepias but this might give you some insight into the mindset of those during this era

"Convict Leasing and Chain Gangs

Bankrupt in the wake of the Civil War and faced with the difficult task of rebuilding and sustaining an infrastructure, Mississippi and other state governments turned to a familiar expedient to fund their penal institutions. In the late 1860s many southern prisons began leasing convicts to plantations and industries bereft of the cheap labor formerly supplied by slaves. As the majority of inmates were African American, this new form of compulsory labor helped to bridge the gap between the Black Codes and Jim Crow as a form of social control that embodied the common racial hierarchies in the South. Likewise, vagrancy laws criminalized the social mobility recently acquired by former slaves and produced a steady supply of bodies for the prison labor system.

Although prisoners in the convict lease system were used for a variety of arduous tasks from railroad construction to cutting timber, inmates in Mississippi worked primarily on large cotton plantations. Edward Richardson, a plantation owner who had lost his fortune in the Civil War, was perhaps the state’s greatest beneficiary of prison labor. The first to have a convict contract with the state, officials paid Richardson eighteen thousand dollars a year for “care” of the prisoners. With the added income from the profits of their labor, he eventually regained his wealth, setting an inspiring precedent for the southern business community.

After reaching its acme in the 1880s, the convict leasing era wound down as a consequence of accusations that too many affluent southerners had profited from the system and of moral indignation over the treatment of convicts. Inmates were forced to work dangerous jobs that free laborers refused to take and were subject to wanton physical punishment and severe deprivation, conditions that resulted in high death rates among the prison population. Outrage was further fueled by the fact that the state did not maintain separate facilities or mandate special treatment for children, and many were leased out under the system. Publicity regarding these deplorable realities led to a public outcry that forced Mississippi to abolish convict leasing in 1890, the first state to do so.

Individual counties, however, retained the right to use prison labor, and county-run chain gangs replaced convict labor in the early 1900s. Cuffed together at the ankle in small groups, prisoners were put to work expanding and repairing transportation routes as part of the Good Roads Movement, an urbanization effort aimed at increasing accessibility in the South. Though considered a troubling part of the past today, this use of convicts was generally championed in its time, and supporters, including the US Department of Agriculture, considered it an efficient and progressive way to both build roads and control criminals.

As with the convict lease system, most of the chain gang laborers were African Americans, who were thought to require a generous measure of discipline for proper “rehabilitation.” But convicts on county-run chain gangs often slept in cages and were subject to brutal corporal punishment and suffered from a host of debilitating ailments, including malnutrition, heatstroke, frostbite, contagious diseases, and shackle poisoning (infections caused by the constant rubbing of iron against the skin). Work songs helped to sustain morale and increase chances of survival, allowing prisoners to labor in a steady rhythm that could be slowed to protect the infirm or inefficient. As with the convict lease system, mounting public outrage resulted in bans on chain gangs nationwide by the mid-twentieth century.

Mississippi consolidated much of its convict labor force on Parchman Farm, a profitable and self-sustaining penal cotton plantation located on twenty thousand acres in the Yazoo Delta. Parchman was established in 1904 by Gov. James K. Vardaman, a proponent of prison reform who billed himself as a progressive and visionary but who regarded African Americans as mentally inferior and touted a paternalistic brand of racism that envisioned a pacified black population reconciled to subordinate social position.

• Written by Kathryn Radishofski, Columbia University "

Convict Leasing and Chain Gangs | Mississippi Encyclopedia

SHAPIRO: 8 Leftist Myths About Race & Racism In America | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

I would have loved to read this but they want me to subscribe or provide my email address which I'm not inclined to do.

Summary?

Temps first post " But never tell me America is racist. "

Temp after he confused himself:. " Of course, racism still exists in America "

Lol. You can't discern nuance, can you?

I think I hear what you're saying--that institutionally and ideologically, America is not racist. Our laws are fair. We do not discourage diversity. You acknowledge that some individuals are racist, though.

The only thing you're forgetting is that every single law, regulation and ideal actually is enacted by individuals. Otherwise, those laws would mean nothing. They have to be put into action by individuals. When those people are racist or even unconsciously believe that blacks are more dangerous, more suspect, than whites, it cannot be fair.

" I think I hear what you're saying--that institutionally and ideologically, America is not racist. "


I disagree even with that statement that Temp lacked the ability to articulate. There is systemic/institutional racism in the US. You cant have racism without the supporting ideology.

I'd really be interested if you would take a deeper dive into some of this. What is institutionally racist? Where has the justice system written it into policy? I'm not arguing with you, I'm asking for some specifics, because I don't know much about it. It is ridiculous for me to even try to defend BLM except on general principle, because I don't really understand what specifically they are asking for.

This is kind of starting in the middle and I'm not claiming to speak for Asclepias but this might give you some insight into the mindset of those during this era

"Convict Leasing and Chain Gangs

Bankrupt in the wake of the Civil War and faced with the difficult task of rebuilding and sustaining an infrastructure, Mississippi and other state governments turned to a familiar expedient to fund their penal institutions. In the late 1860s many southern prisons began leasing convicts to plantations and industries bereft of the cheap labor formerly supplied by slaves. As the majority of inmates were African American, this new form of compulsory labor helped to bridge the gap between the Black Codes and Jim Crow as a form of social control that embodied the common racial hierarchies in the South. Likewise, vagrancy laws criminalized the social mobility recently acquired by former slaves and produced a steady supply of bodies for the prison labor system.

Although prisoners in the convict lease system were used for a variety of arduous tasks from railroad construction to cutting timber, inmates in Mississippi worked primarily on large cotton plantations. Edward Richardson, a plantation owner who had lost his fortune in the Civil War, was perhaps the state’s greatest beneficiary of prison labor. The first to have a convict contract with the state, officials paid Richardson eighteen thousand dollars a year for “care” of the prisoners. With the added income from the profits of their labor, he eventually regained his wealth, setting an inspiring precedent for the southern business community.

After reaching its acme in the 1880s, the convict leasing era wound down as a consequence of accusations that too many affluent southerners had profited from the system and of moral indignation over the treatment of convicts. Inmates were forced to work dangerous jobs that free laborers refused to take and were subject to wanton physical punishment and severe deprivation, conditions that resulted in high death rates among the prison population. Outrage was further fueled by the fact that the state did not maintain separate facilities or mandate special treatment for children, and many were leased out under the system. Publicity regarding these deplorable realities led to a public outcry that forced Mississippi to abolish convict leasing in 1890, the first state to do so.

Individual counties, however, retained the right to use prison labor, and county-run chain gangs replaced convict labor in the early 1900s. Cuffed together at the ankle in small groups, prisoners were put to work expanding and repairing transportation routes as part of the Good Roads Movement, an urbanization effort aimed at increasing accessibility in the South. Though considered a troubling part of the past today, this use of convicts was generally championed in its time, and supporters, including the US Department of Agriculture, considered it an efficient and progressive way to both build roads and control criminals.

As with the convict lease system, most of the chain gang laborers were African Americans, who were thought to require a generous measure of discipline for proper “rehabilitation.” But convicts on county-run chain gangs often slept in cages and were subject to brutal corporal punishment and suffered from a host of debilitating ailments, including malnutrition, heatstroke, frostbite, contagious diseases, and shackle poisoning (infections caused by the constant rubbing of iron against the skin). Work songs helped to sustain morale and increase chances of survival, allowing prisoners to labor in a steady rhythm that could be slowed to protect the infirm or inefficient. As with the convict lease system, mounting public outrage resulted in bans on chain gangs nationwide by the mid-twentieth century.

Mississippi consolidated much of its convict labor force on Parchman Farm, a profitable and self-sustaining penal cotton plantation located on twenty thousand acres in the Yazoo Delta. Parchman was established in 1904 by Gov. James K. Vardaman, a proponent of prison reform who billed himself as a progressive and visionary but who regarded African Americans as mentally inferior and touted a paternalistic brand of racism that envisioned a pacified black population reconciled to subordinate social position.

• Written by Kathryn Radishofski, Columbia University "

Convict Leasing and Chain Gangs | Mississippi Encyclopedia

SHAPIRO: 8 Leftist Myths About Race & Racism In America | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

I would have loved to read this but they want me to subscribe or provide my email address which I'm not inclined to do.

Summary?

MythAll white people are inherently beneficiaries of “white privilege.”

Fact: The Left’s “white privilege” narrative is false, used to divide and silence, and promotes racist assumptions.

But the Left suggests that because America has been replete with racism and bigotry historically, that means that racism pervades American society now. That’s not only untrue, it’s a cruel lie. Furthermore, we cannot acknowledge the racism that swamped America for two centuries without also acknowledging the central natural law principles that eventually led Americans to fight against that racism — that led hundreds of thousands of white Americans to die for the freedom of their black brothers in slavery, that led whites to march with blacks and legislate on behalf of blacks to end Jim Crow, that has created the most successful multiethnic democracy on the planet

Case in point.

I have been trying to say that for the past 6 hours to Asclepias and IM2

But I have other things to do.

I never debate them anymore. Too easy. I do mock them however. Their self loathing due to their skin color is amusing.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Temp: America not racist

Me: h***y please.

Confederate monuments and memorials - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Oh, moving the goalposts are we?

Okay.

 

[Asclepias]

Temp: No systemic racism in the us.

me: Call my attorney to come talk to this fool.

Confederate-monument removals slowed by knot of legal issues

The controversy over Confederate monuments gained greater national prominence following the events in Charlottesville, Virginia, in August 2017, when white nationalists protested the planned removal of a statue of Robert E. Lee, resulting in a violent clash between opposing parties.

www.americanbar.org

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Temp: America not racist

Me: h***y please.

Confederate monuments and memorials - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Statues make it racist? LOL. You love feeling sorry for yourself.

 

[Asclepias]

Temp: America not racist

Me: h***y please.

Confederate monuments and memorials - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Oh, moving the goalposts are we?

Okay.

Good to see you got a sense of humor about that ass whippin.

 

[IM2]

Then you tell us America is racist.

Uh no. Our institutions are not racist, our principles as they stand now are not racist. There are people in America who are racist, that does not imply America as a whole is.

You see only what you want to see. Selective hearing, selective vision... whatever you want to call it.

You and Asclepias are both black, yes?

If America were racist, would it let you earn enough money to buy the PC/Laptop you're typing your garbage on now? Would it permit you to do the same to pay for the home you're living in? The car you're driving? A proper education?

When you walk into a business or a restaurant, do you see any signage which tells blacks they are not welcome? No, of course not, because for the past 60 years America has spent time passing laws banning such intolerable behavior.

Ignorance is as ignorance does.

The supreme court said differently in 2017. Junior, you don't know what you're talking about. I guarantee that and have proof. Hopefully that proof will be shown in the future. You talk about how there are no signs but an establishment still has the right to refuse service to anyone. Spare me your opinion young boy.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Temp: America not racist

Me: h***y please.

Confederate monuments and memorials - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Oh here's more.

Robert Gould Shaw Memorial - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Are we to say that the memorial to the black men who fought for our freedom is indicative of America's racism? Are you saying we shouldn't memorialize men who fought for their freedom in the Union army?

Or would you rather have this?

 

[Asclepias]

Temp: Lincoln was a good white man.

Lincoln: Go get the Corwin Amendment.

Corwin Amendment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Abraham Lincoln, in his first inaugural address on March 4, said of the Corwin Amendment:[2][18]

I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution—which amendment, however, I have not seen—has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service ... holding such a provision to now be implied constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.

Just weeks prior to the outbreak of the Civil War, Lincoln sent a letter to each state's governor transmitting the proposed amendment,[19] noting that Buchanan had approved it

 

[TemplarKormac]

Then you tell us America is racist.

Uh no. Our institutions are not racist, our principles as they stand now are not racist. There are people in America who are racist, that does not imply America as a whole is.

You see only what you want to see. Selective hearing, selective vision... whatever you want to call it.

You and Asclepias are both black, yes?

If America were racist, would it let you earn enough money to buy the PC/Laptop you're typing your garbage on now? Would it permit you to do the same to pay for the home you're living in? The car you're driving? A proper education?

When you walk into a business or a restaurant, do you see any signage which tells blacks they are not welcome? No, of course not, because for the past 60 years America has spent time passing laws banning such intolerable behavior.

Ignorance is as ignorance does.

The supreme court said differently in 2017. Junior, you don't know what you're talking about. I guarantee that and have proof. Hopefully that proof will be shown in the future. You talk about how there are no signs but an establishment still has the right to refuse service to anyone. Spare me your opinion young boy.

Your 'guarantee' is worthless.

"Hopefully that proof will be shown in the future"

Which means the proof doesn't exist now, at this moment.

Game, set, match.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Temp: Lincoln was a good white man.

Lincoln: Go get the Corwin Amendment.

Corwin Amendment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Abraham Lincoln, in his first inaugural address on March 4, said of the Corwin Amendment:[2][18]

I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution—which amendment, however, I have not seen—has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service ... holding such a provision to now be implied constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.

Just weeks prior to the outbreak of the Civil War, Lincoln sent a letter to each state's governor transmitting the proposed amendment,[19] noting that Buchanan had approved it

That didn't even make it into the final draft of the 13th Amendment.

Here, I'll have you read this. Stop trying to change the subject.

Emancipation Proclamation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Asclepias]

Temp: Lincoln was a good white man.

Lincoln: Go get the Corwin Amendment.

Corwin Amendment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Abraham Lincoln, in his first inaugural address on March 4, said of the Corwin Amendment:[2][18]

I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution—which amendment, however, I have not seen—has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service ... holding such a provision to now be implied constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.

Just weeks prior to the outbreak of the Civil War, Lincoln sent a letter to each state's governor transmitting the proposed amendment,[19] noting that Buchanan had approved it

That didn't even make it into the final draft of the 13th Amendment.

Here, I'll have you read this. Stop trying to change the subject.

Emancipation Proclamation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thats only because the south fucked up and didnt accept it.

You want to know why they called it the "emancipation proclamation"? You ever think about that seriously? Why not freedom proclamation or liberty?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Temp: Lincoln was a good white man.

Lincoln: Go get the Corwin Amendment.

Corwin Amendment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Abraham Lincoln, in his first inaugural address on March 4, said of the Corwin Amendment:[2][18]

I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution—which amendment, however, I have not seen—has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service ... holding such a provision to now be implied constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.

Just weeks prior to the outbreak of the Civil War, Lincoln sent a letter to each state's governor transmitting the proposed amendment,[19] noting that Buchanan had approved it

Read Lincoln's Peoria Speech, of October 1854. That speech stated his explicit opposition to slavery.

"After leaving Congress in 1849 Lincoln largely ignored politics to concentrate on his law practice. He was drawn back by the firestorm over the Kansas–Nebraska Act of 1854, which reversed a longstanding compromise and allowed territories to decide for themselves whether they would allow slavery. Lincoln was morally opposed to slavery and politically opposed to any expansion of it. At issue was extension into the western territories.[1] On October 16, 1854, in his "Peoria Speech", Lincoln declared his opposition to slavery, which he repeated in his route to presidency"

Abraham Lincoln and slavery - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

Peoria Speech, October 16, 1854 - Lincoln Home National Historic Site (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

 

[TemplarKormac]

You ever think about that seriously? Why not freedom proclamation?

The definition of the word "emancipate" is to "make free" to "liberate", to "let loose".

I don't see it necessary to parse words, do you?

 

[Asclepias]

Temp: Lincoln was a good white man.

Lincoln: Go get the Corwin Amendment.

Corwin Amendment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Abraham Lincoln, in his first inaugural address on March 4, said of the Corwin Amendment:[2][18]

I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution—which amendment, however, I have not seen—has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service ... holding such a provision to now be implied constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.

Just weeks prior to the outbreak of the Civil War, Lincoln sent a letter to each state's governor transmitting the proposed amendment,[19] noting that Buchanan had approved it

Read Lincoln's Peoria Speech, of October 1854. That speech stated his explicit opposition to slavery.

"After leaving Congress in 1849 Lincoln largely ignored politics to concentrate on his law practice. He was drawn back by the firestorm over the Kansas–Nebraska Act of 1854, which reversed a longstanding compromise and allowed territories to decide for themselves whether they would allow slavery. Lincoln was morally opposed to slavery and politically opposed to any expansion of it. At issue was extension into the western territories.[1] On October 16, 1854, in his "Peoria Speech", Lincoln declared his opposition to slavery, which he repeated in his route to presidency"

Abraham Lincoln and slavery - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

Peoria Speech, October 16, 1854 - Lincoln Home National Historic Site (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

So why would he be about to sign an amendment that would make slavery legal for eternity right before the Civil War? What changed?

 

[Asclepias]

You ever think about that seriously? Why not freedom proclamation?

The definition of the word "emancipate" is to "make free" to "liberate", to "let loose".

I don't see it necessary to parse words, do you?

The US names thing a certain way for a reason. It comes from a Latin word that means "transfer property" Basically the enslaved were transferred to the government as property.

early 17th century: from Latin emancipat- ‘transferred as property’, from the verb emancipare, from e- (variant of ex- ) ‘out’ + mancipium ‘slave’