New Orleans City Council Gives Confederate Monuments The Boot

[bodecea]

mob rule

People complaining about this need to make up their mind....."no citizen input" or "mob rule". Which is it?

 

[Asclepias]

mob rule

People complaining about this need to make up their mind....."no citizen input" or "mob rule". Which is it?

Depends on if they are for or against what he believes.

 

[Dana7360]

As a Historian the removal of these statues saddens me greatly but if this is what the people of New Orleans want...

Sometimes the will of the people has to be tempered by the rights of others in the minority to not have the mob dictate things like this. Its the entire concept of a constitutional republic.

Now is there a constitutional right to these Statues? of course not, that silly. But the idea that history can be purged by a majority vote is troubling in and of itself.

Where does it end? I'm sure a ton of cities have a Malcolm X Blvd (even if just honorary). He hated white people for a large part of his life, only rejecting that concept before he got assassinated. Why should those street signs remain?

Mostly worthy points here with the exceptions:

(1)-

the idea that history can be purged

... moving or removing statues/monuments does not amount to "purging history". It has no relationship to history. Purging history would be removing something from the historical record. That's not at all what reallocating which persons/events are worthy of an honorific amounts to.

The persons and events still exist in history, and must remain there. To suggest that de-honorizing them somehow alters the record of who they were and what they did amounts to Appeal to Emotion. What has changed is not the historical record, but their perceived value.

Social mores change and evolve. In his time and its immediate epilogue, Jeff Davis was simply more esteemed than he is now, and that was when the honorifics went up. Now that his star has faded, the city, in this case, decides it's no longer reflective of the evolved public perception, and is in fact contrary to it, hence the de-honorizing. Ultimately it's a matter of how the city wants to express itself. It's entirely symbolic, nothing to do with historical record.

And ultimately in practical terms it's a pain in the ass, since these names for the most part serve a mundane purpose having nothing to do with the namesake: "take St. Charles to Lee Circle..." or "it's on Jeff Davis Parkway". I doubt that Jeff Davis Pie will be renamed though, or that anybody will quit making it because of its name (or history).


And (2) --

Malcolm X Blvd (even if just honorary). He hated white people for a large part of his life

I'm not aware of evidence that he "hated white people". The white system, certainly, and its effects -- not the people themselves.

In any case the only Malcolm X Boulevards I could find was one in Brooklyn and as a dual (shared) name for a portion of Lenox Avenue in Manhattan that runs through Harlem.

Marty likes disregard events in history that dont conform to his argument. Its a known fact Malcolm X publicly denounced his former racist views which I am sure not even one inbred confederate did before dying. I have more respect for a man that admits his faults and changes than one that keeps the same faulty and dishonorable views.

I don't know Malcolm's history as well as some but what always impressed me was that, regardless of whatever emotional invective went along with it, his arguments came from logic and were thought through. In other words they were starkly honest. I respect that. It's the trait I'm always seeking (or railing against when it's lacking) on this board.

Malcolm X is probably the only person I would consider a hero. His comments towards whites were certainly not PC. However, I think a lot of people mistook his commitment to Black people as "hate" towards whites.

Personally I don't understand what Malcolm X has to do with any of this.

However Malcolm X never tried to split our nation in two and he never went to war with America. He didn't form an army to kill hundreds of thousands of Americans. Nor did he enslave anyone.

What we're talking about here is putting those statues and memorials where they belong, where they should have been put decades ago. In the past and museums.

That's where they belong and that's where they should stay.

No one should revere people who hated America enough to pick up arms to kill hundreds of thousands Americans and rip this nation apart.

 

[Asclepias]

Sometimes the will of the people has to be tempered by the rights of others in the minority to not have the mob dictate things like this. Its the entire concept of a constitutional republic.

Now is there a constitutional right to these Statues? of course not, that silly. But the idea that history can be purged by a majority vote is troubling in and of itself.

Where does it end? I'm sure a ton of cities have a Malcolm X Blvd (even if just honorary). He hated white people for a large part of his life, only rejecting that concept before he got assassinated. Why should those street signs remain?

Mostly worthy points here with the exceptions:

(1)-

the idea that history can be purged

... moving or removing statues/monuments does not amount to "purging history". It has no relationship to history. Purging history would be removing something from the historical record. That's not at all what reallocating which persons/events are worthy of an honorific amounts to.

The persons and events still exist in history, and must remain there. To suggest that de-honorizing them somehow alters the record of who they were and what they did amounts to Appeal to Emotion. What has changed is not the historical record, but their perceived value.

Social mores change and evolve. In his time and its immediate epilogue, Jeff Davis was simply more esteemed than he is now, and that was when the honorifics went up. Now that his star has faded, the city, in this case, decides it's no longer reflective of the evolved public perception, and is in fact contrary to it, hence the de-honorizing. Ultimately it's a matter of how the city wants to express itself. It's entirely symbolic, nothing to do with historical record.

And ultimately in practical terms it's a pain in the ass, since these names for the most part serve a mundane purpose having nothing to do with the namesake: "take St. Charles to Lee Circle..." or "it's on Jeff Davis Parkway". I doubt that Jeff Davis Pie will be renamed though, or that anybody will quit making it because of its name (or history).


And (2) --

Malcolm X Blvd (even if just honorary). He hated white people for a large part of his life

I'm not aware of evidence that he "hated white people". The white system, certainly, and its effects -- not the people themselves.

In any case the only Malcolm X Boulevards I could find was one in Brooklyn and as a dual (shared) name for a portion of Lenox Avenue in Manhattan that runs through Harlem.

Marty likes disregard events in history that dont conform to his argument. Its a known fact Malcolm X publicly denounced his former racist views which I am sure not even one inbred confederate did before dying. I have more respect for a man that admits his faults and changes than one that keeps the same faulty and dishonorable views.

I don't know Malcolm's history as well as some but what always impressed me was that, regardless of whatever emotional invective went along with it, his arguments came from logic and were thought through. In other words they were starkly honest. I respect that. It's the trait I'm always seeking (or railing against when it's lacking) on this board.

Malcolm X is probably the only person I would consider a hero. His comments towards whites were certainly not PC. However, I think a lot of people mistook his commitment to Black people as "hate" towards whites.

Personally I don't understand what Malcolm X has to do with any of this.

However Malcolm X never tried to split our nation in two and he never went to war with America. He didn't form an army to kill hundreds of thousands of Americans. Nor did he enslave anyone.

What we're talking about here is putting those statues and memorials where they belong, where they should have been put decades ago. In the past and museums.

That's where they belong and that's where they should stay.

No one should revere people who hated America enough to pick up arms to kill hundreds of thousands Americans and rip this nation apart.

The failed thought was advanced to relate removing the monuments to the removal of any streets named after Malcolm X on the grounds that he was a racist. I think the crew that are whining about removing the glorification of un-american, confederate racists from our view are those that wish to experience yet another beat down. As you can see in this thread they have posted thinly veiled threats at a hoped for uprising.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Fly it proud!

The South doesn't need to rise. It needs to get into the foundation and weaken that.

Calling for the downfall of the US government.

Radical jihad if I've ever seen it.

You have to be a real dummy to mix and match history to fit a contemporary agenda.

Research 'metaphor' and 'analogy'. Learn something for a change.

No doubt metaphors and analogies represent the full extent of your knowledge of history.

Sorry to disappoint you. When speaking and writing you need a massive tool box. Those are a couple of them that the human race has used for millennia.

 

[Liminal]

Fly it proud!

The South doesn't need to rise. It needs to get into the foundation and weaken that.

Calling for the downfall of the US government.

Radical jihad if I've ever seen it.

You have to be a real dummy to mix and match history to fit a contemporary agenda.

Research 'metaphor' and 'analogy'. Learn something for a change.

No doubt metaphors and analogies represent the full extent of your knowledge of history.

Sorry to disappoint you. When speaking and writing you need a massive tool box. Those are a couple of them that the human race has used for millennia.

I guess it's just unfortunate that your actual knowledge of history is so superficial. Otherwise you might be able to put those tools to good use.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Calling for the downfall of the US government.

Radical jihad if I've ever seen it.

You have to be a real dummy to mix and match history to fit a contemporary agenda.

Research 'metaphor' and 'analogy'. Learn something for a change.

No doubt metaphors and analogies represent the full extent of your knowledge of history.

Sorry to disappoint you. When speaking and writing you need a massive tool box. Those are a couple of them that the human race has used for millennia.

I guess it's just unfortunate that your actual knowledge of history is so superficial. Otherwise you might be able to put those tools to good use.

You are psychic and can read other people's thoughts!? Wow you should be on TV making millions. Ah but you aren't. Because you don't know what anyone else thinks or knows, you just project YOUR beliefs and biases out onto the rest of the world.

Keep searching Pee Wee, the answers are out there.

 

[dilloduck]

mob rule

People complaining about this need to make up their mind....."no citizen input" or "mob rule". Which is it?

Depends on if they are for or against what he believes.

reading my mind ?

 

[dilloduck]

mob rule

People complaining about this need to make up their mind....."no citizen input" or "mob rule". Which is it?

This is obviously a case of mob rule. The input from the minority was dismissed. It's ok when liberals operate this way.

 

[Asclepias]

mob rule

People complaining about this need to make up their mind....."no citizen input" or "mob rule". Which is it?

Depends on if they are for or against what he believes.

reading my mind ?

Its impossible to read something that small without an electron microscope. I just read your post.

 

[dilloduck]

mob rule

People complaining about this need to make up their mind....."no citizen input" or "mob rule". Which is it?

Depends on if they are for or against what he believes.

reading my mind ?

Its impossible to read something that small without an electron microscope. I just read your post.

fail --ad hominem. Clayton will be along to explain what that means to you.

 

[Asclepias]

mob rule

People complaining about this need to make up their mind....."no citizen input" or "mob rule". Which is it?

Depends on if they are for or against what he believes.

reading my mind ?

Its impossible to read something that small without an electron microscope. I just read your post.

fail --ad hominem. Clayton will be along to explain what that means to you.

No need for an explanation. I have most of your posts to provide examples.

 

[Liminal]

You have to be a real dummy to mix and match history to fit a contemporary agenda.

Research 'metaphor' and 'analogy'. Learn something for a change.

No doubt metaphors and analogies represent the full extent of your knowledge of history.

Sorry to disappoint you. When speaking and writing you need a massive tool box. Those are a couple of them that the human race has used for millennia.

I guess it's just unfortunate that your actual knowledge of history is so superficial. Otherwise you might be able to put those tools to good use.

You are psychic and can read other people's thoughts!? Wow you should be on TV making millions. Ah but you aren't. Because you don't know what anyone else thinks or knows, you just project YOUR beliefs and biases out onto the rest of the world.

Keep searching Pee Wee, the answers are out there.

This changes everything, now you've convinced me of your indisputable expertise. In fact I'd be surprised if some foundation hadn't already offered funding for you to start your own think tank.

 

[Liminal]

Of course you realize this means Washington DC will have to be renamed as well. Perhaps the President should promote a write in campaign to come up with a new, more politically correct name for our nation's capital. I would suggest: Capital of Slave Owning Indian Slaughtering Oppressors.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Black people STILL shake in their flip flops at just the thought of a noose! The pillow lips pass out at the sight of a pillowcase.

They are a scary group! lol

Why would you imagine some wedding party would be scary? Do weddings scare you?

Anytime inbreds get married to other inbreds its always a scary thing they are procreating.

Here's more from Klan Central. rofl

Facebook

Do you really scour face book to post the family pictures of strangers? What does this tell us? You object to weddings. Old people who still care for one another are objectionable.

Surely you can find baby pictures you want to use.

Those are pics of the KKK and their friends, yes. I will admit, it is cheap entertainment. Their children are just as ugly, this is true.

 

[Jackson]

We are not going to learn from history if we erase it. The Confederate flag is also a reminder how citizens can turn on one another if we don't start working together. Let's learn from history.

You don't need a confederate flag waving over a state capitol to remember anything you've cited. It makes no more sense than waving the Japanese Imperial Flag in our town centers.

You're wrong. If we learned nothing else, we have learned that we are stronger when united and weaker when we are divided. What would have happened to us if we had experienced an enemy outside our borders during the civil war?

Too bad the loser confederates never considered that possibility while they were fighting to keep some americans in slavery.

I'm not saying slavery was right. I'm just saying the Civil War meant several things including brother against brother when the country should have been united against the revolting practice of slavery. If we would have experienced insurgents against the US during this time, the US would have been defeated.

 

[Jackson]

We are not going to learn from history if we erase it. The Confederate flag is also a reminder how citizens can turn on one another if we don't start working together. Let's learn from history.

You don't need a confederate flag waving over a state capitol to remember anything you've cited. It makes no more sense than waving the Japanese Imperial Flag in our town centers.

You're wrong. If we learned nothing else, we have learned that we are stronger when united and weaker when we are divided. What would have happened to us if we had experienced an enemy outside our borders during the civil war?

Too bad the loser confederates never considered that possibility while they were fighting to keep some americans in slavery.

They were thinking about their pockets instead of humanity. I agree with you. You can agree about the division of the country weakening us without relenting in your position.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Research 'metaphor' and 'analogy'. Learn something for a change.

No doubt metaphors and analogies represent the full extent of your knowledge of history.

Sorry to disappoint you. When speaking and writing you need a massive tool box. Those are a couple of them that the human race has used for millennia.

I guess it's just unfortunate that your actual knowledge of history is so superficial. Otherwise you might be able to put those tools to good use.

You are psychic and can read other people's thoughts!? Wow you should be on TV making millions. Ah but you aren't. Because you don't know what anyone else thinks or knows, you just project YOUR beliefs and biases out onto the rest of the world.

Keep searching Pee Wee, the answers are out there.

This changes everything, now you've convinced me of your indisputable expertise. In fact I'd be surprised if some foundation hadn't already offered funding for you to start your own think tank.

Thank you, we have an immediate opening for someone with your skill set in the janitorial department.

 

[Jackson]

I get so tired of "amusing" put downs. Why can;t we have an honest debate without the insults. I'm afraid that says something about us that is not flattering.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Don't paint everyone with the same broad brush. If someone can discuss something I'm all for that. Once they retreat into their 'camp' and all its clichés and insults then they get it back.