No Longer David:*The State of Israel As Goliath

[Sweet_Caroline]

Wow. One. I see a trend developing.

Of parents glorifying their sons/daughters as martyrs who died, taking innocent Jewish civilians with them. That has been going on since the time of suicide bombings. Nothing new and pretty disgusting.

One is a mighty big trend. Clearly, the majority of Palestinian families celebrate their children's "martyrdom"

For some reason this woman keeps getting recycled as "representative" of Palestinian mothers.

Just think if we used Andrea Yates as representative of Texas mothers.

Oh yes, they certainly do. Not just for the money reward but it is a great honor for parents to have a son/daughter who murdered Jews. That woman gets 'recycled' because she made herself available for interviews and was elected to government. She is a wonderful example, is she not, for people who like to defend the Palestinians?

 

[Coyote]

Most parents are not Palestinians going to a Chamber of Commerce meeting to see about collecting $20,000.00 for their dead child either, Coyote. It is an unfortunate thing that happened but nevertheless documented truth and was published by the article Front page magazine as such. It has never been proved wrong and as you see the article is from the early 2003. The point being that these victims Mr. Bluementhal speaks of in his largely incorrect observation of what is happening on the ground over there - have a history of terrorism against Israeli civilians and so it is not without cause that the Israeli govt and Israeli people hesitate to trust what they say and their motivations for what they say. - Jeri

Palestinian parents are no different than any other parents and given that their economy is in shambles, unemployment and poverty rampant - if they can get $20,000 - so what? How is it any different from families collecting death benefits for their military children killed in action? Should they refuse that money?

I suppose it comes down to a moral question and that I will leave to the reader, Coyote. I am merely stating the facts as they are reported and available on the internet, documentation by Front Page, WND, other Israeli sources I would imagine have better documentation and even video footage of the meetings but the greater question as you pose it is truly my own question. Is it moral? I say no. It is not. That is my own belief and everyone is entitled to their own. - Jeri

Front Page and WND are not very good sources. From what I've heard in interviews, or read in articles - Palestinian families grieve their children's deaths as much as any other family. No one wants to lose a child. To say that some how Palestinians, as a group - don't care - well, I'd like to see more substantial proof than a few isolated examples.

 

[Coyote]

Of parents glorifying their sons/daughters as martyrs who died, taking innocent Jewish civilians with them. That has been going on since the time of suicide bombings. Nothing new and pretty disgusting.

One is a mighty big trend. Clearly, the majority of Palestinian families celebrate their children's "martyrdom"

For some reason this woman keeps getting recycled as "representative" of Palestinian mothers.

Just think if we used Andrea Yates as representative of Texas mothers.

Oh yes, they certainly do. Not just for the money reward but it is a great honor for parents to have a son/daughter who murdered Jews. That woman gets 'recycled' because she made herself available for interviews and was elected to government. She is a wonderful example, is she not, for people who like to defend the Palestinians?

It may be an "honor" - in much the same way as it's an "honor" for an IDF soldier to have been killed in the line of duty - a means for the parents to get through the horror of the death- but it is hardly "celebrated" or "desired". Those parents would far rather have their child alive and in their arms then dead and blown to bits.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Except that the people Blumenthal quoted say he is liars and he did not even spell some of their names correctly. The book is considered a flop. He never mentioned the Fogel family slaughter which he should have. Saddam Hussein was executed at the very end of 2006 in December. So from 2007 - 2008 the Palestinian people ran through the last of the 20 million set aside for suicide bombers and after that money ran out.. ( he was held captured 2003 - the money was still going out ) When the money from Saddam was run through the suicide bombing ended in Israel. LOOK AT THE DATES on Wiki Link. That is no coincidence.

Liar!

You can keep repeating lies, you are just piling one sin on another!As I have been discussing each chapter I read, I pull up sources backing up what Max Blumenthal is writing.

You can keep reading hate sites and repeating their lies about past suicide bombings, too, repeating lies does not make them true.

The Hebrews were the ones who sacrificed their own children, with their own hands, just reading in Judges about a Hebrew who killed his own daughter for God.

This author is a best selling author and this book is selling.

And why?

Because Truth cannot be buried, it is always brought into Light!

The truth cannot be buried which is why I posted the truth for you about the suicide bombers who stopped doing their missions in 2008 ( when the money ran out ) and how the pay for each suicide bomber was raised to $20,000.00 from the original going rate of $10,000.00 per sucide bomber and the links from Wiki and Front Page to back it up... Meanwhile you have not posted anything except chapter after chapter of a book that supposedly has copyright laws. ( without the link I might add) As I understand it that isn't legal. Am I missing anything else? The review I read on Goliath said the book was a flop. I will go get the link for that too, Sherri. Meanwhile I believe you have posted enough chapters of his book.... without a link - I might add...

You posted lies from a hate site.

You are free to read the book Goliath, as I am.

I am reading it and discussing what is written in it here, referring to the chapters and names of chapters I am discussing.

You refuse to read it, you certainly have no ability to address the Truths in it.

Discussing what is written about in books in ones very own words is perfectly legal.

How else would schools assign essays about books as assignments to students?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

"...If she is in need of a child terrorist victim - there are many and adults too - just have a look at the Jewish settler family, the Fogel family slaughter done by Palestinian men who were praised on PA tv as glorified heros..."

But... but... but... the children belonged to so-called land-stealers, so, they, too, deserved to die, alongside the actual so-called thieves, right?

This again is a moral question - can a 3 month old baby be executed as a military combatant by two Palestinian men? How about the older siblings and parents asleep in their pajamas? Enemy combatants? Yes or not? If not, how does the mother of one man go on PA tv and glorify her son as a hero?

If one spends a period of time in Israel for the purpose of research and knows of this story how does one still write a book like Goliath? How can Mr. Bluementhal reconcile his incredibly biast and unfair book without hanging his head in shame?

 

[Coyote]

"...If she is in need of a child terrorist victim - there are many and adults too - just have a look at the Jewish settler family, the Fogel family slaughter done by Palestinian men who were praised on PA tv as glorified heros..."

But... but... but... the children belonged to so-called land-stealers, so, they, too, deserved to die, alongside the actual so-called thieves, right?

This again is a moral question - can a 3 month old baby be executed as a military combatant by two Palestinian men? How about the older siblings and parents asleep in their pajamas? Enemy combatants? Yes or not? If not, how does the mother of one man go on PA tv and glorify her son as a hero?

There is no justification for that - it was murder. And his mother is just one woman.

 

[Sunni Man]

I guess Jeri has decided to avoid the above post #379.

Because it destroys her Christian hate agenda about Jesus in the Quran. .

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Palestinian parents are no different than any other parents and given that their economy is in shambles, unemployment and poverty rampant - if they can get $20,000 - so what? How is it any different from families collecting death benefits for their military children killed in action? Should they refuse that money?

I suppose it comes down to a moral question and that I will leave to the reader, Coyote. I am merely stating the facts as they are reported and available on the internet, documentation by Front Page, WND, other Israeli sources I would imagine have better documentation and even video footage of the meetings but the greater question as you pose it is truly my own question. Is it moral? I say no. It is not. That is my own belief and everyone is entitled to their own. - Jeri

Front Page and WND are not very good sources. From what I've heard in interviews, or read in articles - Palestinian families grieve their children's deaths as much as any other family. No one wants to lose a child. To say that some how Palestinians, as a group - don't care - well, I'd like to see more substantial proof than a few isolated examples.

I have no doubt that they grieved deeply after realizing what they had done, Coyote. It is amazing they could even live with themselves after accepting that blood money. Perhaps they didn't and gave it back. I would hope their conscience would force them to such a conclusion. Mine would not have allowed me to have taken it in the first place.

- Jeri

 

[irosie91]

Palestinian parents are no different than any other parents and given that their economy is in shambles, unemployment and poverty rampant - if they can get $20,000 - so what? How is it any different from families collecting death benefits for their military children killed in action? Should they refuse that money?

I suppose it comes down to a moral question and that I will leave to the reader, Coyote. I am merely stating the facts as they are reported and available on the internet, documentation by Front Page, WND, other Israeli sources I would imagine have better documentation and even video footage of the meetings but the greater question as you pose it is truly my own question. Is it moral? I say no. It is not. That is my own belief and everyone is entitled to their own. - Jeri

Front Page and WND are not very good sources. From what I've heard in interviews, or read in articles - Palestinian families grieve their children's deaths as much as any other family. No one wants to lose a child. To say that some how Palestinians, as a group - don't care - well, I'd like to see more substantial proof than a few isolated examples.

Whether they "care" or not------is actually a moot point-----the fact is that "palestinians"
have been getting paid to murder infants -------an even more important fact is that it
is WELL KNOWN that young people-----are HIGHLY SUICIDAL The people who
conceived of the PAY FOR MURDER BY SUICIDE and GLORIFY THE SUICIDE PIG----
is just about the most BRILLIANTLY SOCIOPATHIC program in the history of
mankind--------it cannot lose. I will make it easy for you-------if you had a ten
year old daughter------would you send her to a special school for girls that was named
for a young girl who murdered a whole bunch of kids by tying a bomb on her ass?
And----if that school inculcated in its students the GLORY of murdering kids by such
a method to the point that the girls happily danced and sang songs extolling the activity?

teenaged girls ----statistically have a VERY HIGH RATE OF SUICIDE ATTEMPTS------
the actual suicide rates are not all that high because girls TEND TO FAIL ----
as a mother would you be happy to provide for your daughter an EASY EFFECTIVE
AND GLORIOUS ROUTE? It is very hard for a little girl to jump off a bridge----
but not all that hard to DREAM OF GLORY and OBTAIN IT BY SIMPLY PULLING A STRING

at least three schools-----devoted to girls -----are named for and glorify WAFA IDRIS---
the first SUICIDE SLUT ----and several others were named for and glorify----other
suicide sluts

Whether mothers grieve or not----is still a moot point-----since PUBLICALLY they are
under pressure to "celebrate"------chances are they do so for the sake of their other
kids------and the prestige of the family---

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

It is unfortunate for all people involved but the fact that was being lost in this much touted book of Sherri's hero, Mr. Blumenthal - is that here is another side to this story and that is the history behind what has led us to this moment including Arafats agenda. You cannot have an event without a motive. There is motive behind the Israeli's having to protect their own people. What is the motive? There has been a history of violence against them. Who has waged this violence against them? Palestinian people. So there are two sides to this story and this is the other side. What I have brought up is not the political element but rather the question of the moral element. Is it moral to do such things? If not, then we must admit this and also admit it into evidence as one cause of the Israelis no longer trusting the Palestinians, no longer feeling hopeful to a two state solution - no longer feeling negotiations can move forward until these things are acknowledged as part of the problem. Can a Christian state that and still be a Christian? Sure they can. I just did. Your turn, Sherri. - Jeri

Occupation and Apartheid in Palestine are morally wrong, there is no way to morally justify them as you try to do.

This is just not simply a story with two sides, as you try to argue.

There is no compromising of Truth.

The book Goliath addresses one chapter after another, images of events happening in Palestine.

These are real events and Max Blumenthal is telling us the Truth about them.

Were their two sides to the killings in the Holcaust, too?

I have never argued that and I never will.

Were there two sides to the slavery issue ?

I am not going to argue the other side of that either.

Were there two sides to Apartheid in South Africa?

I am not going to argue for the other side of that either.

 

[Coyote]

I suppose it comes down to a moral question and that I will leave to the reader, Coyote. I am merely stating the facts as they are reported and available on the internet, documentation by Front Page, WND, other Israeli sources I would imagine have better documentation and even video footage of the meetings but the greater question as you pose it is truly my own question. Is it moral? I say no. It is not. That is my own belief and everyone is entitled to their own. - Jeri

Front Page and WND are not very good sources. From what I've heard in interviews, or read in articles - Palestinian families grieve their children's deaths as much as any other family. No one wants to lose a child. To say that some how Palestinians, as a group - don't care - well, I'd like to see more substantial proof than a few isolated examples.

I have no doubt that they grieved deeply after realizing what they had done, Coyote. It is amazing they could even live with themselves after accepting that blood money. Perhaps they didn't and gave it back. I would hope their conscience would force them to such a conclusion. Mine would not have allowed me to have taken it in the first place.

- Jeri

In their view it is no different than money paid to families of soldiers who died in combat - particularly if the families lost their primary means of support. And Jeri, sometimes the children are just killed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time - not because they did anything. They lost a child. They're no different than any other parents.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I guess Jeri has decided to avoid the above post #379.

Because it destroys her Christian hate agenda about Jesus in the Quran. .

My Jesus was crucified on a cross, died and on the third day rose again. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

Your Issa never did. Not according to your book. Your Issa is coming back to punish the Jews and the Christians according to your book. You have a counterfeit Jesus on your hands. Toss him.

It is written:

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is the anti christ that hath neither the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son hath not the Father and ( but ) he that acknowledgeth Son hath the Father also. 1 John 2:22,23

Issa of the Koran is never called the Son of God nor is God called his Father. It is a false Jesus and an anti christ teaching. You have been deceived according to the written word of God, Sunni.

As to your countering the Jews do not believe in Jesus. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling and mind your own business.

It is written:

Salvation is of the Jews. John 4: 22

- Jeri

 

[irosie91]

Virginity is a big thing with all the Abrahamic religions. Sucks mightily to be a woman in any of them. Of course - virginity doesn't matter for men.

LOL you want to blame abraham? actually virginity is a big thing with LOTS AND
LOTS of creeds and cultures ------It is probably something hardwired in the primate
brain. Try to learn something about OTHER cultures COYOTE-----your name
suggests an affinity with native americans------they had a BIG THING with virginity for
girls too
well-----now that we are on the subject-----HINDUS do you know any hindus?
have you read any ancient hindu literature?------hindus tend to COMPARTMENTALIZE---
just as the abrahamics do-------there are the GOOD GIRLS------and the whores
(reminds me of my own father) ------the fact that hindus discuss the roles of the
whores so openly does not make the whores----"good girls"

the ancient greeks were heavy into PORN ----and PROSTITUTION-----
but they were just as neurotic about keeping their women hidden as
are saudis

for what really goes on in islamic cesspits-----talk to a survivor thereof---
or a very honest muslim-----of course one's sisters, and daughters are
virgins-------but the little girls purchased in india, pakistan and indonesia
exist for "use"------by the owner and his friends

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Front Page and WND are not very good sources. From what I've heard in interviews, or read in articles - Palestinian families grieve their children's deaths as much as any other family. No one wants to lose a child. To say that some how Palestinians, as a group - don't care - well, I'd like to see more substantial proof than a few isolated examples.

I have no doubt that they grieved deeply after realizing what they had done, Coyote. It is amazing they could even live with themselves after accepting that blood money. Perhaps they didn't and gave it back. I would hope their conscience would force them to such a conclusion. Mine would not have allowed me to have taken it in the first place.

- Jeri

In their view it is no different than money paid to families of soldiers who died in combat - particularly if the families lost their primary means of support. And Jeri, sometimes the children are just killed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time - not because they did anything. They lost a child. They're no different than any other parents.

I do not deny that at all, Coyote. That has surely happened. But according to the information and link I posted on this thread from FPM Front page Magazine - some families had aleady accepted that $ 25,000.00 pay check - some $ 10,000.00 and some inbetween apparently - from reports - yet in the FPM link it states 10 Million Dollars had already been distributed as reward money to the families of these dead suicide bombers. 10 million dollars? That is quite a few families, Coyote! We are not talking about a handful of people! We are talking about quite a few. I have not done the math but if you break it down in between to $ 15,000.00 per family and 10 million dollars has been distributed to the families by 2002. ( with it ending in 2008 so that is not even the grand total ) How many families is that? Has anyone done the math on that?

http://archive.frontpagemag.com/Printable.aspx?ArtId=24166




Wednesday, May 15, 2002



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THIS PAST MARCH 25 in the packed Palestine Chamber of Commerce hall, those in attendance emitted a collective, audible gasp in response to this very special announcement: Iraqi president Saddam Hussein will henceforth pay $25,000 apiece to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers. This represents a significant increase over the traditional "going rate" of $10,000 designed to help entice the rest of Yasser Arafat’s legendary "million martyrs" to volunteer for their own glorious suicide-murders. After the announcement was made, the men at the head table proceeded to call out the names of forty-seven recent "martyrs," whose surviving relatives then proudly stepped forward to sign for their checks. With these payments, Saddam’s cumulative intifadaera contributions to the families of Palestinian terrorists eclipsed the $10 million mark.

read more on the link provided above.

 

[Sunni Man]

I guess Jeri has decided to avoid the above post #379.

Because it destroys her Christian hate agenda about Jesus in the Quran. .

My Jesus was crucified on a cross, died and on the third day rose again. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

Your Issa never did. Not according to your book. Your Issa is coming back to punish the Jews and the Christians according to your book. You have a counterfeit Jesus on your hands. Toss him.

It is written:

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is the anti christ that neither the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son hath not the Father and ( but ) he that acknowledgeth Son hath the Father also. 1 John 2:22,23

Issa of the Koran is never called the Son of God nor is God called his Father. It is a false Jesus and an anti christ teaching. You have been deceived according to the written word of God, Sunni.

You didn't answer my question Jeri. ..

Again, which of these descriptions of Jesus in the Quran differs from the Biblical Jesus??


* An angel told Mary she was pregnant with child.

* The virgin Mary gave birth to Mary

* Jesus was sinless and never committed a sin.

* Jesus was a Prophet of Jehovah.

* Jesus was a Jewish rabbi who lived in Israel

* Jesus taught the Torah

* Jesus performed many miracles.

* Jesus healed the sick and cured the leper.

* Jesus was sent to the Jewish people.

* The jewish priests sought to kill Jesus.

* Jesus will return in the End Times.

* And will fight against the Anti-Christ in the battle of Armageddon.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

One is a mighty big trend. Clearly, the majority of Palestinian families celebrate their children's "martyrdom"

For some reason this woman keeps getting recycled as "representative" of Palestinian mothers.

Just think if we used Andrea Yates as representative of Texas mothers.

Oh yes, they certainly do. Not just for the money reward but it is a great honor for parents to have a son/daughter who murdered Jews. That woman gets 'recycled' because she made herself available for interviews and was elected to government. She is a wonderful example, is she not, for people who like to defend the Palestinians?

It may be an "honor" - in much the same way as it's an "honor" for an IDF soldier to have been killed in the line of duty - a means for the parents to get through the horror of the death- but it is hardly "celebrated" or "desired". Those parents would far rather have their child alive and in their arms then dead and blown to bits.

It is no honor for a parent of an Israeli soldier to have him/her dead in the line of duty. They mourn their son/daughter and certainly there is no celebration.

Palestinian parents as I said rejoice if their sons/daughters take some Jews with them in the course of suicide bombings. The children are indoctrinated to hate Jews from day one. It is in their school text books, tv programs etc. It is an honor for a parent of a suicide bomber, not a shame or a tragedy.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

I have no doubt that they grieved deeply after realizing what they had done, Coyote. It is amazing they could even live with themselves after accepting that blood money. Perhaps they didn't and gave it back. I would hope their conscience would force them to such a conclusion. Mine would not have allowed me to have taken it in the first place.

- Jeri

In their view it is no different than money paid to families of soldiers who died in combat - particularly if the families lost their primary means of support. And Jeri, sometimes the children are just killed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time - not because they did anything. They lost a child. They're no different than any other parents.

I do not deny that at all, Coyote. That has surely happened. But according to the information and link I posted on this thread from FPM Front page Magazine - some families had aleady accepted that $ 20,000.00 pay check - some $ 10,000.00 and some inbetween apparently - from reports - yet in the FPM link it states 10 Million Dollars had already been distributed as reward money to the families of these dead suicide bombers. 10 million dollars? That is quite a few families, Coyote! We are not talking about a handful of people! We are talking about quite a few. I have not done the math but if you break it down in between to $ 15,000.00 per family and 10 million dollars has been distributed to the families by 2003. ( with it ending in 2008 so that is not even the grand total ) How many families is that? Has anyone done the math on that?

Your source is a hate site with no credibility.

 

[Coyote]

Virginity is a big thing with all the Abrahamic religions. Sucks mightily to be a woman in any of them. Of course - virginity doesn't matter for men.

LOL you want to blame abraham? actually virginity is a big thing with LOTS AND
LOTS of creeds and cultures ------It is probably something hardwired in the primate
brain. Try to learn something about OTHER cultures COYOTE-----your name
suggests an affinity with native americans------they had a BIG THING with virginity for
girls too
well-----now that we are on the subject-----HINDUS do you know any hindus?
have you read any ancient hindu literature?------hindus tend to COMPARTMENTALIZE---
just as the abrahamics do-------there are the GOOD GIRLS------and the whores
(reminds me of my own father) ------the fact that hindus discuss the roles of the
whores so openly does not make the whores----"good girls"

the ancient greeks were heavy into PORN ----and PROSTITUTION-----
but they were just as neurotic about keeping their women hidden as
are saudis

for what really goes on in islamic cesspits-----talk to a survivor thereof---
or a very honest muslim-----of course one's sisters, and daughters are
virgins-------but the little girls purchased in india, pakistan and indonesia
exist for "use"------by the owner and his friends

We're in agreement there Rosie and I agree it's probably hardwired. The male animal wants to be sure that any children fathered are his. Religions are the vehicles used to enforce it.

 

[Coyote]

Oh yes, they certainly do. Not just for the money reward but it is a great honor for parents to have a son/daughter who murdered Jews. That woman gets 'recycled' because she made herself available for interviews and was elected to government. She is a wonderful example, is she not, for people who like to defend the Palestinians?

It may be an "honor" - in much the same way as it's an "honor" for an IDF soldier to have been killed in the line of duty - a means for the parents to get through the horror of the death- but it is hardly "celebrated" or "desired". Those parents would far rather have their child alive and in their arms then dead and blown to bits.

It is no honor for a parent of an Israeli soldier to have him/her dead in the line of duty. They mourn their son/daughter and certainly there is no celebration.

Palestinian parents as I said rejoice if their sons/daughters take some Jews with them in the course of suicide bombings. The children are indoctrinated to hate Jews from day one. It is in their school text books, tv programs etc. It is an honor for a parent of a suicide bomber, not a shame or a tragedy.

I doubt most do. Everytime I see this brought up - it's the same few tired examples used to try to make the argument that they "rejoice" in their children being killed by suicide bombs. No one has ever been able to present anything more than anecdotal evidence that this is a widespread sentiment.

 

[Kondor3]

We can always dredge-up a few dozen still-shots and video clips of Palestinian TV children's programming, featuring Jihadi and Martyrdom teachings, providing prima facie evidence that Hamas, Fatah, et al, have routinely attempted to brainwash Palestinian children into such behaviors, and setting the stage for peer pressure to make parents act against their inner feelings and their souls, and publicly praise such behaviors while privately living in terror for their children's lives and souls, in the face of such barbaric Jihadi-Martyrdom propagandizing...

If that would be of any help to the conversation...