No One Has a Right to Health Care

[dblack]

Civilizations choose? What about individuals? don't they have the right to choose what to do with the fruits of their own labor?

Where in the Constitution are Medicare and Medicaid authorized?

How is that immoral? there is no initiation of force against such people and anybody who chooses can voluntarily provide whatever aid they like to them.

Well then why would government have to use the threat of force against you (or anybody else) to do it? If it's a moral case shouldn't it be easy to persuade most people to do so voluntarily?

I don't know what to tell ya.

If you pay one penny in taxes, then you're being robbed and forced at the point of a gun. The question is who we vote in, and how low they can keep that oppression. I don't know how many people you can convince to vote out health care for the old, poor and needy.

The point of Constitutionally limited government is to protect our rights irrespective of the winds of democracy. Otherwise the minority is completely at the mercy of the majority.

As I said, a healthier populace is good economics. That's my focus, that's my interest. Since I've not yet had a gun held to my head to pay taxes, I can't speak to that.
.

It may be your focus and your interest, but it shouldn't be a goal of government. Citizens aren't the employees of government, and government is not our boss. How healthy and industrious we choose to be is none of the state's business.

We have a government limited by a constitution. Too bad for you that it isn't custom made to suit your one in 350 million preference.

Law should never be custom made to suit anyone's preference. It should protect everyone's rights to live their lives according to their own preference, and should protect them equally. Government should be a means of protecting our freedom, not a tool to get your way.

It's impossible for government to protect everyone's preference. That's absurd.

Of course, some preferences are incompatible with mutual freedom. But those that aren't should be protected. That's the point of government in my view. I know others disagree, and believe that the point of government is to rule over its people, but I will fight that 'til the bitter end. It's fundamentally un-American and authoritarian.

 

[Rustic]

[Q


Yes, the taxpayers were asked every time they vote. Don't you vote?

Democracy sucks when greedy assholes find out they can use the government to steal for them with 51% of vote. Of course most of the time it is not really a majority but a plurality, which makes it even worse.

All humans should have a Bill of Rights to prevent the government from taking their money and giving it away to somebody else. Don't you agree?

Only a first rate greedy thieving asshole would vote for somebody who runs on a platform to take money from other people. You know, like the shithead Moon Bats that vote for Clinton and Sanders.

Greed is a despicable motivation for electing government officials. Liberals are despicable greedy people. I think we can all agree on that.

 

[rightwinger]

Yes, the word is callous

As in not being willing to contribute to save another Americans life

Willing to contribute <> forced to contribute under penalty of law. Who says we don't help in other ways? You know nothing of me.... I just tire of lefties screeching about helping people when it always involves taking things from everybody else.

Anyway, the ACA is a fucking scam, even the IRS can't get the reporting right... it's a typical government monstrosity aimed at fixing a non-existent problem. What the next? The AFA (Affordable Food Act) mandating we all maintain a government mandated supply of health foods? Hell, it's in all our best interests that we eat healthy, right? The the Affordable Clothing Act? The Affordable Water Act?

It never ends...

Sorry ...our society does not function on "willing to contribute"

Our schools are not funded by those willing to contribute
Our police and fire departments are not paid by those willing to contribute
Our wars are not paid by those willing to contribute

Schools, military and fire departments aren't transfer payments. The assumption is the government isn't entitled to shit.. however, we acknowledge that we need to fight fires, educate children and protect ourselves.

Far cry from forcing me to buy you insurance.

Of course they are

I don't use the schools, why should I pay for your kids?
I have never had the police at my house, why should I pay for them?
It's your war...why should I pay for a war I don't support?

Freeloader

Oh good grief.... that's about the stupidest thing you have ever written... and you have penned some doozies.

Not really...it is the society that you advocate

One where people only have to pay for those things they want
There is another name for it..... Anarchy

 

[NYcarbineer]

Well fortunately for our country, the majority are not as callous as you

Callous? Hardly.. what's callous is demanding that your neighbor pay your bills. No, that's just plain fucked up.

Yes, the word is callous

As in not being willing to contribute to save another Americans life

Willing to contribute <> forced to contribute under penalty of law. Who says we don't help in other ways? You know nothing of me.... I just tire of lefties screeching about helping people when it always involves taking things from everybody else.

Anyway, the ACA is a fucking scam, even the IRS can't get the reporting right... it's a typical government monstrosity aimed at fixing a non-existent problem. What the next? The AFA (Affordable Food Act) mandating we all maintain a government mandated supply of health foods? Hell, it's in all our best interests that we eat healthy, right? The the Affordable Clothing Act? The Affordable Water Act?

It never ends...

Sorry ...our society does not function on "willing to contribute"

Our schools are not funded by those willing to contribute
Our police and fire departments are not paid by those willing to contribute
Our wars are not paid by those willing to contribute

Schools, military and fire departments aren't transfer payments. The assumption is the government isn't entitled to shit.. however, we acknowledge that we need to fight fires, educate children and protect ourselves.

Far cry from forcing me to buy you insurance.

Schools that educate children whose parents don't pay for it, or pay less than others,

are a redistribution of wealth. As are fire departments that serve all in a community equally regardless of how much each household paid towards that department.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Willing to contribute <> forced to contribute under penalty of law. Who says we don't help in other ways? You know nothing of me.... I just tire of lefties screeching about helping people when it always involves taking things from everybody else.

Anyway, the ACA is a fucking scam, even the IRS can't get the reporting right... it's a typical government monstrosity aimed at fixing a non-existent problem. What the next? The AFA (Affordable Food Act) mandating we all maintain a government mandated supply of health foods? Hell, it's in all our best interests that we eat healthy, right? The the Affordable Clothing Act? The Affordable Water Act?

It never ends...

Sorry ...our society does not function on "willing to contribute"

Our schools are not funded by those willing to contribute
Our police and fire departments are not paid by those willing to contribute
Our wars are not paid by those willing to contribute

Schools, military and fire departments aren't transfer payments. The assumption is the government isn't entitled to shit.. however, we acknowledge that we need to fight fires, educate children and protect ourselves.

Far cry from forcing me to buy you insurance.

Of course they are

I don't use the schools, why should I pay for your kids?
I have never had the police at my house, why should I pay for them?
It's your war...why should I pay for a war I don't support?

Freeloader

Oh good grief.... that's about the stupidest thing you have ever written... and you have penned some doozies.

Not really...it is the society that you advocate

One where people only have to pay for those things they want
There is another name for it..... Anarchy

Well, if that is your takeaway from what I said, then I don't know what to tell you.

Jesus Christ on a Pogo-stick.

 

[Rustic]

Callous? Hardly.. what's callous is demanding that your neighbor pay your bills. No, that's just plain fucked up.

Yes, the word is callous

As in not being willing to contribute to save another Americans life

Willing to contribute <> forced to contribute under penalty of law. Who says we don't help in other ways? You know nothing of me.... I just tire of lefties screeching about helping people when it always involves taking things from everybody else.

Anyway, the ACA is a fucking scam, even the IRS can't get the reporting right... it's a typical government monstrosity aimed at fixing a non-existent problem. What the next? The AFA (Affordable Food Act) mandating we all maintain a government mandated supply of health foods? Hell, it's in all our best interests that we eat healthy, right? The the Affordable Clothing Act? The Affordable Water Act?

It never ends...

Sorry ...our society does not function on "willing to contribute"

Our schools are not funded by those willing to contribute
Our police and fire departments are not paid by those willing to contribute
Our wars are not paid by those willing to contribute

Schools, military and fire departments aren't transfer payments. The assumption is the government isn't entitled to shit.. however, we acknowledge that we need to fight fires, educate children and protect ourselves.

Far cry from forcing me to buy you insurance.

Schools that educate children whose parents don't pay for it, or pay less than others,

are a redistribution of wealth. As are fire departments that serve all in a community equally regardless of how much each household paid towards that department.

That why obamacare should be an opt in or opt out...

 

[rightwinger]

Sorry ...our society does not function on "willing to contribute"

Our schools are not funded by those willing to contribute
Our police and fire departments are not paid by those willing to contribute
Our wars are not paid by those willing to contribute

Schools, military and fire departments aren't transfer payments. The assumption is the government isn't entitled to shit.. however, we acknowledge that we need to fight fires, educate children and protect ourselves.

Far cry from forcing me to buy you insurance.

Of course they are

I don't use the schools, why should I pay for your kids?
I have never had the police at my house, why should I pay for them?
It's your war...why should I pay for a war I don't support?

Freeloader

Oh good grief.... that's about the stupidest thing you have ever written... and you have penned some doozies.

Not really...it is the society that you advocate

One where people only have to pay for those things they want
There is another name for it..... Anarchy

Well, if that is your takeaway from what I said, then I don't know what to tell you.

Jesus Christ on a Pogo-stick.

It's exactly what you said

You think you should only pay for what you support

Paying to save someone's life is not something you support

 

[Flash]

[Q


Schools, military and fire departments aren't transfer payments. The assumption is the government isn't entitled to shit.. however, we acknowledge that we need to fight fires, educate children and protect ourselves.

Far cry from forcing me to buy you insurance.

Excellent point.

As you said there are some legitimate government functions. Defense, fire, police, courts are all examples.

Welfare, bailouts, entitlements and subsidies are not legitimate. That is the thievery of government.

No way should the government take my money by force to use to pay the health care bills of somebody else, like an illegal alien or a forth generation welfare queen.

Charity should always be voluntary and not forced upon society by greedy assholes at the ballot box.

 

[Rustic]

Schools, military and fire departments aren't transfer payments. The assumption is the government isn't entitled to shit.. however, we acknowledge that we need to fight fires, educate children and protect ourselves.

Far cry from forcing me to buy you insurance.

Of course they are

I don't use the schools, why should I pay for your kids?
I have never had the police at my house, why should I pay for them?
It's your war...why should I pay for a war I don't support?

Freeloader

Oh good grief.... that's about the stupidest thing you have ever written... and you have penned some doozies.

Not really...it is the society that you advocate

One where people only have to pay for those things they want
There is another name for it..... Anarchy

Well, if that is your takeaway from what I said, then I don't know what to tell you.

Jesus Christ on a Pogo-stick.

It's exactly what you said

You think you should only pay for what you support

Paying to save someone's life is not something you support

It all should be a choice, life is not a charity

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Schools, military and fire departments aren't transfer payments. The assumption is the government isn't entitled to shit.. however, we acknowledge that we need to fight fires, educate children and protect ourselves.

Far cry from forcing me to buy you insurance.

Of course they are

I don't use the schools, why should I pay for your kids?
I have never had the police at my house, why should I pay for them?
It's your war...why should I pay for a war I don't support?

Freeloader

Oh good grief.... that's about the stupidest thing you have ever written... and you have penned some doozies.

Not really...it is the society that you advocate

One where people only have to pay for those things they want
There is another name for it..... Anarchy

Well, if that is your takeaway from what I said, then I don't know what to tell you.

Jesus Christ on a Pogo-stick.

It's exactly what you said

You think you should only pay for what you support

Paying to save someone's life is not something you support

Yeah, that's it, I want people dead. I beat baby seals and eat kittens... I also said that.

Have a nice evening.

 

[Rustic]

To hell with this it takes an village mentality...
People are sick of getting assfucked by the federal government...

 

[beagle9]

It sucks paying for something I will never need and use, obamacare is fraudulent at best...

. Happens everyday when you pay for private insurance you don't use, but you are paying into a pool to get cheaper rates did you know that ? Their are millions who have paid into private insurance carriers, and have nevered used their insurance to the capacity they could have, and when they leave they get nothing in return for it... Now that is robbery Imo.It's only when the government is involved that it becomes a hated thing right ? Ok, but why does the government get involved ? Isn't it because something isn't working, and the people start petitioning their government to check on why it is no longer working ? There was a huge problem developing with insurance rates, fraud in the industry, greed, shady dealings and downright corruption that caused the government to step in, but when it does it begins flushing out the players, and of course those players won't walk away from their candy without a fight.The problem however is that when the feds step in, they use a crisis to go to far instead of just fixing something and getting back out of the way.

 

[dblack]

To hell with this it takes an village mentality...
People are sick of getting assfucked by the federal government...

Some people want even more of it. Perhaps because they think the always be the "pitcher" rather than the "catcher". But that won't always be the case, and when the tables turn they're going to regret giving government this kind of power.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

To hell with this it takes an village mentality...
People are sick of getting assfucked by the federal government...

I doubt the push back would be what it is if things were run better. But every year it's the same shit, fucked up more than ever and they demand they jut need more of whet they're doing and more money to do it with.

And by them I mean BOTH parties.

 

[Rustic]

Paying for something that might happen, I can't think of a bigger waste of resources.

 

[Political Junky]

Americans have a right to receive medical treatment if they become sick

They also should not lose everything they have saved in their lifetime just because they get sick

We are the wealthiest nation on earth. Most other industrialized nations assure that. We should also

Who says they have that right?? You??

Who the hell are you to tell me or anyone else that they have to pay for medical care for someone?

Ask some of the citizens of those countries about those long waits for medical care. I'm sure there are folks in the UK, Europe and Canada that can tell some horror stories about those waits.

Tales made up by the Right and believed by some fools.

 

[RDD_1210]

Am I opposed to free health care for certain individuals? Nope. I am all for it. But I am not going to start from a position that free health care is a right. That's one slippery slope that is all too real.

You show me a kid with cerebral palsy with a single mother whose husband abandoned them, I will bust my ass to help that kid. I have actually done that. I will even pay more in taxes if no one else will help him but the government.

But don't drag out a high school dropout who calls in sick every Monday because he's too hungover to work his 15th job in ten years, and tell me he's entitled to take my hard earned money to pay for his aspirin. He does NOT have a right to take from me.

How do we differentiate through legislation?

 

[Rustic]

Am I opposed to free health care for certain individuals? Nope. I am all for it. But I am not going to start from a position that free health care is a right. That's one slippery slope that is all too real.

You show me a kid with cerebral palsy with a single mother whose husband abandoned them, I will bust my ass to help that kid. I have actually done that. I will even pay more in taxes if no one else will help him but the government.

But don't drag out a high school dropout who calls in sick every Monday because he's too hungover to work his 15th job in ten years, and tell me he's entitled to take my hard earned money to pay for his aspirin. He does NOT have a right to take from me.

How do we differentiate through legislation?

Easy - opt in or opt out... Your choice

 

[beagle9]

If the American people decide they want government paid health care is it possible?

.

Only if it is paid for by the citizens like a tax maybe. If everyone contributed, it would work... Getting people to pay the tax along with SS and FICA out of their pay checks each week ( I think )would be the best way to collect it, and then a healthcare card would be issued to the citizen from the government that would look or be just like an SS card and/or a voter card that would be carried by the citizen just the same. The card should be excepted anywhere the card is presented in the medical industry. The government would then have fraud detection agencies that would work to keep the system stable and operating uncorrupted. If corruption is detected, then the government would prompt an investigation into the matter for it's citizens and for the government providing the service.

 

[beagle9]

I tried to answer this "stealing" and "point of a gun" and "force" stuff in the first paragraph. Civilizations choose to pool money to pay for certain services. Those civilizations also choose which services will be pooled and how much to pay for them.

Civilizations choose? What about individuals? don't they have the right to choose what to do with the fruits of their own labor?

And those who feel like Medicare and Medicaid are unconstitutional are certainly welcome to promote candidates who would abolish them.

Where in the Constitution are Medicare and Medicaid authorized?

I'm not going to hold my breath on that. The thought of leaving millions of seniors - many of whom simply do not have the capacity to make complicated decisions any more - is quite immoral to me.

How is that immoral? there is no initiation of force against such people and anybody who chooses can voluntarily provide whatever aid they like to them.

Paying taxes to help those who were not seems perfectly moral to me, and I don't lose a moment of sleep over it.
,

Well then why would government have to use the threat of force against you (or anybody else) to do it? If it's a moral case shouldn't it be easy to persuade most people to do so voluntarily?

I don't know what to tell ya.

If you pay one penny in taxes, then you're being robbed and forced at the point of a gun. The question is who we vote in, and how low they can keep that oppression. I don't know how many people you can convince to vote out health care for the old, poor and needy.

The point of Constitutionally limited government is to protect our rights irrespective of the winds of democracy. Otherwise the minority is completely at the mercy of the majority.

As I said, a healthier populace is good economics. That's my focus, that's my interest. Since I've not yet had a gun held to my head to pay taxes, I can't speak to that.
.

It may be your focus and your interest, but it shouldn't be a goal of government. Citizens aren't the employees of government, and government is not our boss. How healthy and industrious we choose to be is none of the state's business.

. And how much the wild west refused to be tamed was also none of the governments business back then ? Can you imagine how far backwards this nation would be if the government at certain intervals had not stepped in on behalf of the people ? Not all wanted to see the nation change no matter how bad it got at times, but for many it had to change. The whole problem these days is government is no longer trusted, and that is why we see all the blow back on anything that it does or involves itself in.