No One Has a Right to Health Care

[rightwinger]

It sucks paying for something I will never need and use, obamacare is fraudulent at best...

. Happens everyday when you pay for private insurance you don't use, but you are paying into a pool to get cheaper rates did you know that ? Their are millions who have paid into private insurance carriers, and have nevered used their insurance to the capacity they could have, and when they leave they get nothing in return for it... Now that is robbery Imo.It's only when the government is involved that it becomes a hated thing right ? Ok, but why does the government get involved ? Isn't it because something isn't working, and the people start petitioning their government to check on why it is no longer working ? There was a huge problem developing with insurance rates, fraud in the industry, greed, shady dealings and downright corruption that caused the government to step in, but when it does it begins flushing out the players, and of course those players won't walk away from their candy without a fight.The problem however is that when the feds step in, they use a crisis to go to far instead of just fixing something and getting back out of the way.

What has more corruption, fraud and shady dealings than federal government programs? Saying the government needs to check the insurance industry is like saying the wolf should check the hen house. Heck, even the VA scandal is only a few years old.

Insurance is an option--Commie Care is not. If you don't want house insurance, you can rent an apartment or buy your house outright with no loan and not insure it. If you don't want to pay auto insurance, then don't drive. My mother nor her parents ever paid a dime into auto insurance. None of them ever drove a car in their lives.

I was listening to the POTUS channel on Serius XM radio this morning. The host was interviewing a Congress critter from Maryland. They were talking about Commie Care when the host asked about all the people that still don't have insurance? The Congressman didn't know what to say but um, er, ah, and so on. In other words, it's a failure. It didn't work. It cost thousands of people their jobs, it caused insurance companies to get the hell out of health insurance business.

We have one of the least corrupt governments on earth

Agreed. Corrupt.

Name a country that is less corrupt

 

[rightwinger]

I bet you're a "Christian," aren't you?

Nope. Not religious at all. I'm just a taxpayers who's getting sick and tired of being hosed to take care of other peoples responsibilities.

But I bet you're "pro-life." So explain how a baby is responsible for being born with a heart defect.

(You do know no one's asking you to take them in to live with you, right? Would knowing that help you stop feeling like such a martyr?)

You'd be dead wrong.

I'm pro choice and have no problem with abortion.

And apparently no problem with infants dying of correctable heart defects, as long as you don't have to watch.

As long as I don't have to pay for it.

However if you and those like you should pool your money and pay for it. After all bleeding hearts have to bleed.

Carry on.

Should you have to pay for schools?
How about police?
Why should you have to buy the Navy a new aircraft carrier?

Let those who want it pay for it

 

[rightwinger]

Sounds like the American people are not entitled to much of anything. If the people want healthcare they can't have it. Americans did so much before, and now according to some, those options are not longer open. What has changed?

Such a typically liberal reply. These people that if government doesn't provide it, no one will provide it. That attitude alone shows the destructive effect of liberalism.

That plan wasn't working was it?
Let the market decide who can get healthcare is not a plan

 

[dblack]

Sounds like the American people are not entitled to much of anything. If the people want healthcare they can't have it. Americans did so much before, and now according to some, those options are not longer open. What has changed?

Such a typically liberal reply. These people that if government doesn't provide it, no one will provide it. That attitude alone shows the destructive effect of liberalism.

That plan wasn't working was it?
Let the market decide who can get healthcare is not a plan

Sure it is. It's no less of a plan than letting government decide who can get healthcare. The funny thing is, you love t capitalize the phrase "We the People", but you don't seem to get that the market is, by far, a more accurate representation of the will of the people than government.

 

[rightwinger]

Sounds like the American people are not entitled to much of anything. If the people want healthcare they can't have it. Americans did so much before, and now according to some, those options are not longer open. What has changed?

Such a typically liberal reply. These people that if government doesn't provide it, no one will provide it. That attitude alone shows the destructive effect of liberalism.

That plan wasn't working was it?
Let the market decide who can get healthcare is not a plan

Sure it is. It's no less of a plan than letting government decide who can get healthcare. The funny thing is, you love t capitalize the phrase "We the People", but you don't seem to get that the market is, by far, a more accurate representation of the will of the people than government.

The government does not decide who can get healthcare...only that you must have it
We the People love the free market.....our country was built on it

But we still need the government to act as a referee to that market

 

[Claudette]

Nope. Not religious at all. I'm just a taxpayers who's getting sick and tired of being hosed to take care of other peoples responsibilities.

But I bet you're "pro-life." So explain how a baby is responsible for being born with a heart defect.

(You do know no one's asking you to take them in to live with you, right? Would knowing that help you stop feeling like such a martyr?)

You'd be dead wrong.

I'm pro choice and have no problem with abortion.

And apparently no problem with infants dying of correctable heart defects, as long as you don't have to watch.

As long as I don't have to pay for it.

However if you and those like you should pool your money and pay for it. After all bleeding hearts have to bleed.

Carry on.

Should you have to pay for schools?
How about police?
Why should you have to buy the Navy a new aircraft carrier?

Let those who want it pay for it

Only a bleeding heart like you would make that comparison.

Carry on. LOL

 

[rightwinger]

But I bet you're "pro-life." So explain how a baby is responsible for being born with a heart defect.

(You do know no one's asking you to take them in to live with you, right? Would knowing that help you stop feeling like such a martyr?)

You'd be dead wrong.

I'm pro choice and have no problem with abortion.

And apparently no problem with infants dying of correctable heart defects, as long as you don't have to watch.

As long as I don't have to pay for it.

However if you and those like you should pool your money and pay for it. After all bleeding hearts have to bleed.

Carry on.

Should you have to pay for schools?
How about police?
Why should you have to buy the Navy a new aircraft carrier?

Let those who want it pay for it

Only a bleeding heart like you would make that comparison.

Carry on. LOL

Why would that comparison be invalid?

You don't want to pay for health insurance for those who can't afford it on their own.......I have no kids in school, I do not want to pay to educate other people's children

How is it different?

 

[Claudette]

Neither Health care or education are covered under the constitution and neither is education

Health care isn't a right. Its a commodity that's paid for by those using it.

Paid for by those using it is the key phrase. If you want health care then pay for your own.

If you can't pay for it consult a charity for help. or a bleeding heart with the money to help you. Not the taxpayers of America.

 

[dblack]

Education is covered under the Constitution.

It is? I musta missed that part.

 

[Yousaidwhat]

R

It sucks paying for something I will never need and use, obamacare is fraudulent at best...

. Happens everyday when you pay for private insurance you don't use, but you are paying into a pool to get cheaper rates did you know that ? Their are millions who have paid into private insurance carriers, and have nevered used their insurance to the capacity they could have, and when they leave they get nothing in return for it... Now that is robbery Imo.It's only when the government is involved that it becomes a hated thing right ? Ok, but why does the government get involved ? Isn't it because something isn't working, and the people start petitioning their government to check on why it is no longer working ? There was a huge problem developing with insurance rates, fraud in the industry, greed, shady dealings and downright corruption that caused the government to step in, but when it does it begins flushing out the players, and of course those players won't walk away from their candy without a fight.The problem however is that when the feds step in, they use a crisis to go to far instead of just fixing something and getting back out of the way.

What has more corruption, fraud and shady dealings than federal government programs? Saying the government needs to check the insurance industry is like saying the wolf should check the hen house. Heck, even the VA scandal is only a few years old.

Insurance is an option--Commie Care is not. If you don't want house insurance, you can rent an apartment or buy your house outright with no loan and not insure it. If you don't want to pay auto insurance, then don't drive. My mother nor her parents ever paid a dime into auto insurance. None of them ever drove a car in their lives.

I was listening to the POTUS channel on Serius XM radio this morning. The host was interviewing a Congress critter from Maryland. They were talking about Commie Care when the host asked about all the people that still don't have insurance? The Congressman didn't know what to say but um, er, ah, and so on. In other words, it's a failure. It didn't work. It cost thousands of people their jobs, it caused insurance companies to get the hell out of health insurance business.

We have one of the least corrupt governments on earth

Agreed. Corrupt.

Name a country that is less corrupt

RW.

That,sir is not the point. IMHO, we should not have a corrupt government.

 

[Claudette]

Education is covered under the Constitution.

It is? I musta missed that part.

You are right. I always assumed it was but apparently the FF didn't want it in the constitution any more than they wanted health care in there.

Education is not mentioned in the Constitution of the United States, and for good reason. The Founders wanted most aspects of life managed by those who were closest to them, either by state or local government or by families, businesses, and other elements of civil society. Certainly, they saw no role for the federal government in education.

Unfortunately the Fed Govt. of today likes to run education. Hence the Department of Education which is why I thought it was in the Constitution.

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Rustic]

The federal government is the very definition of corruption.

 

[Wry Catcher]

• A lack of empathy and common sense seems to have infected the clamorous minority.
• Life, Liberty and Property are protected by Social Services.
• Freely treating a diseased pauper with a communicable disease benefits all.
• Art. I, Sec 8, clause 1 grants the Congress the power to tax, The Supreme Court has rule the PPACA is a tax and thus a lawful enterprise as it protects The People under the general Welfare,

Consider for example this definition of the GW by Hamilton vis a vis that of Madison, which the clamorous right holds to be the true and only definition:

See:

General Welfare

 

[Wry Catcher]

Education is covered under the Constitution.

It is? I musta missed that part.

You are right. I always assumed it was but apparently the FF didn't want it in the constitution any more than they wanted health care in there.

Education is not mentioned in the Constitution of the United States, and for good reason. The Founders wanted most aspects of life managed by those who were closest to them, either by state or local government or by families, businesses, and other elements of civil society. Certainly, they saw no role for the federal government in education.

Unfortunately the Fed Govt. of today likes to run education. Hence the Department of Education which is why I thought it was in the Constitution.

Thanks for the heads up.

The DofE does not "run" education.

 

[Claudette]

Education is covered under the Constitution.

It is? I musta missed that part.

You are right. I always assumed it was but apparently the FF didn't want it in the constitution any more than they wanted health care in there.

Education is not mentioned in the Constitution of the United States, and for good reason. The Founders wanted most aspects of life managed by those who were closest to them, either by state or local government or by families, businesses, and other elements of civil society. Certainly, they saw no role for the federal government in education.

Unfortunately the Fed Govt. of today likes to run education. Hence the Department of Education which is why I thought it was in the Constitution.

Thanks for the heads up.

The DofE does not "run" education.

They mandate how it will be run by the States

And its Promote the GW, Not provide it.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Education is covered under the Constitution.

It is? I musta missed that part.

You are right. I always assumed it was but apparently the FF didn't want it in the constitution any more than they wanted health care in there.

Education is not mentioned in the Constitution of the United States, and for good reason. The Founders wanted most aspects of life managed by those who were closest to them, either by state or local government or by families, businesses, and other elements of civil society. Certainly, they saw no role for the federal government in education.

Unfortunately the Fed Govt. of today likes to run education. Hence the Department of Education which is why I thought it was in the Constitution.

Thanks for the heads up.

The DofE does not "run" education.

They mandate how it will be run by the States

And its Promote the GW, Not provide it.

1. They do not mandate how the States or local school boards operate. You are simply echoing propaganda. See the link here:

Policy - ED.gov

2. Wrong again. Once again you've taken the word of conservatives rather than the law itself:

General Welfare

 

[Claudette]

Education is covered under the Constitution.

It is? I musta missed that part.

You are right. I always assumed it was but apparently the FF didn't want it in the constitution any more than they wanted health care in there.

Education is not mentioned in the Constitution of the United States, and for good reason. The Founders wanted most aspects of life managed by those who were closest to them, either by state or local government or by families, businesses, and other elements of civil society. Certainly, they saw no role for the federal government in education.

Unfortunately the Fed Govt. of today likes to run education. Hence the Department of Education which is why I thought it was in the Constitution.

Thanks for the heads up.

The DofE does not "run" education.

They mandate how it will be run by the States

And its Promote the GW, Not provide it.

1. They do not mandate how the States or local school boards operate. You are simply echoing propaganda. See the link here:

Policy - ED.gov

2. Wrong again. Once again you've taken the word of conservatives rather than the law itself:

General Welfare

What Is the U.S. Department of Education?


The U.S. Department of Education is the agency of the federal government that establishes policy for, administers and coordinates most federal assistance to education. It assists the president in executing his education policies for the nation and in implementing laws enacted by Congress. The Department's mission is to serve America's students-to promote student achievement and preparation for global competitiveness by fostering educational excellence and ensuring equal access.

It sets the policies the State must follow. In effect it runs education for the country.


A general welfare clause is a section that appeared in many constitutions, as well as in some charters and statutes, which provides that the governing body empowered by the document may enact laws to promote the general welfare of the people, sometimes worded as the public welfare.

Madison had it right.

According to James Madison, the clause authorized Congress to spend money, but only to carry out the powers and duties specifically enumerated in the subsequent clauses of Article I, Section 8, and elsewhere in the Constitution, not to meet the seemingly infinite needs of the general welfare

Promote. Not provide.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Not to mention the next step in this process is to tax you on your insurance you receive..think about that, forced to carry something so you can pay a tax on it... and a tax on a non cash income item at that.

Fucking lovely.

It's happening now. Many employers are dropping coverage for their employees. The employer may give you some money towards your insurance, but that money can only be paid via a wage or salary increase which of course is taxed.

So now that you lost your insurance, you have to buy it with after-tax money whereas before, your benefits were never taxed. To add insult to injury, I found out through my tax preparer that don't even bother trying to deduct anything medical on your federal taxes unless you have paid over $10,000 in medical bills, and even then you might not get a deduction depending on how much you make. That $10,000 minimum was part of Commie Care.

Our premiums went up over 40%, and keeping the increase at that level required going for a nearly $10,000 out-of-pocket. I dropped my kids (they're well into their twenties), it was absurd... as the primary I conceptually was on the hook for $30,000 out-of-pocket.

Yeah, medical expenses must exceed 10% of AGI... 7.5% if over 65.

 

[rightwinger]

R

. Happens everyday when you pay for private insurance you don't use, but you are paying into a pool to get cheaper rates did you know that ? Their are millions who have paid into private insurance carriers, and have nevered used their insurance to the capacity they could have, and when they leave they get nothing in return for it... Now that is robbery Imo.It's only when the government is involved that it becomes a hated thing right ? Ok, but why does the government get involved ? Isn't it because something isn't working, and the people start petitioning their government to check on why it is no longer working ? There was a huge problem developing with insurance rates, fraud in the industry, greed, shady dealings and downright corruption that caused the government to step in, but when it does it begins flushing out the players, and of course those players won't walk away from their candy without a fight.The problem however is that when the feds step in, they use a crisis to go to far instead of just fixing something and getting back out of the way.

What has more corruption, fraud and shady dealings than federal government programs? Saying the government needs to check the insurance industry is like saying the wolf should check the hen house. Heck, even the VA scandal is only a few years old.

Insurance is an option--Commie Care is not. If you don't want house insurance, you can rent an apartment or buy your house outright with no loan and not insure it. If you don't want to pay auto insurance, then don't drive. My mother nor her parents ever paid a dime into auto insurance. None of them ever drove a car in their lives.

I was listening to the POTUS channel on Serius XM radio this morning. The host was interviewing a Congress critter from Maryland. They were talking about Commie Care when the host asked about all the people that still don't have insurance? The Congressman didn't know what to say but um, er, ah, and so on. In other words, it's a failure. It didn't work. It cost thousands of people their jobs, it caused insurance companies to get the hell out of health insurance business.

We have one of the least corrupt governments on earth

Agreed. Corrupt.

Name a country that is less corrupt

RW.

That,sir is not the point. IMHO, we should not have a corrupt government.

Power corrupts.....it is part of politics

But thanks to our free press and independent court system, it corrupts less than other nations

 

[rightwinger]

It is? I musta missed that part.

You are right. I always assumed it was but apparently the FF didn't want it in the constitution any more than they wanted health care in there.

Education is not mentioned in the Constitution of the United States, and for good reason. The Founders wanted most aspects of life managed by those who were closest to them, either by state or local government or by families, businesses, and other elements of civil society. Certainly, they saw no role for the federal government in education.

Unfortunately the Fed Govt. of today likes to run education. Hence the Department of Education which is why I thought it was in the Constitution.

Thanks for the heads up.

The DofE does not "run" education.

They mandate how it will be run by the States

And its Promote the GW, Not provide it.

1. They do not mandate how the States or local school boards operate. You are simply echoing propaganda. See the link here:

Policy - ED.gov

2. Wrong again. Once again you've taken the word of conservatives rather than the law itself:

General Welfare

What Is the U.S. Department of Education?


The U.S. Department of Education is the agency of the federal government that establishes policy for, administers and coordinates most federal assistance to education. It assists the president in executing his education policies for the nation and in implementing laws enacted by Congress. The Department's mission is to serve America's students-to promote student achievement and preparation for global competitiveness by fostering educational excellence and ensuring equal access.

It sets the policies the State must follow. In effect it runs education for the country.


A general welfare clause is a section that appeared in many constitutions, as well as in some charters and statutes, which provides that the governing body empowered by the document may enact laws to promote the general welfare of the people, sometimes worded as the public welfare.

Madison had it right.

According to James Madison, the clause authorized Congress to spend money, but only to carry out the powers and duties specifically enumerated in the subsequent clauses of Article I, Section 8, and elsewhere in the Constitution, not to meet the seemingly infinite needs of the general welfare

Promote. Not provide.

Provide can promote

Helping the less fortunate promotes the General Welfare of the whole country