No One Has a Right to Health Care

[Ray From Cleveland]

If healthcare is that important to you you must make sure that you eat healthy and exercise. You must stay gainfully employed so that you can afford the healthcare premiums.

You must not let government regulate or interfere with healthcare delivery so that it won't become prohibitively expensive.

But FDR's Socialist Manifesto Rules, Americans have been bamboozled to believe that the government must steal from taxpayers and producers to provide the service.

Welfare State = Government buy the people

In my proposal the government isn't stealing from anyone, but rather it is just giving us our taxpayers money's worth by handling our account instead of the private sector who has extreme profit motive in it's interest, and offers plans that are not worth the money we are forced to give them because the market place is rigged and unfair. We need more and better options, but where not getting them.

And the word "marxist" bothers you why again exactly, Karl?

. Call me anything you won't, but why don't you contend with the ideas listed by showing the flaws in them or why I'm wrong about things ?

The irony that you don't like Republicans owning your body, then you want government ... to own your body. Government decides what and how much healthcare you get. Wow, nuts

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income.

It shouldn't be (with an American pool so large), no more than around $8.00 dollars a week deduction or less would be the amount deducted. Then when we use the healthcare card at the legitimate places of our choice, it then spurs the market into competitions for us... This is a great thing. We all win. The government just handles our accounts and cards issued us. They don't dictate anything to us, and the market will respond to us in kind if we have that kind of power invested in us.

Sounds great except one thing: if WE get to decide where to go for our healthcare treatment, wouldn't we all be choosing the top rated clinics, hospitals and doctors?

For instance I'm a patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic. I've been a patient there all of my life since a child. They are renown for their medical breakthroughs, their recovery record, their most knowledgable doctors and staff.

I think that if government did give us this card (as you call it) then a lot of people would want the same top ranked care that I get. Don't get me wrong, it's not like it's the only place in town, we have many good hospitals and doctors outside of the clinic, but on the other hand, there are places I wouldn't trust to take care of my dog as well.

And if government is the only game in town, do you think they would allow us to be overweight, smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, use recreational narcotics, involve ourselves in dangerous activities or sports????

 

[Campbell]

Oh, Commie Care is the Republicans fault again, huh?

Well......at least you didn't say it was Reagan's fault which is what you usually say.

"The best part about being a Democrat is never having to say you were wrong."
Ray from Cleveland

Overwhelming % of problems with ACA are in red states and areas, dupe. Your problems and the ones in the article are from avoiding it due to to believing Pub propaganda.

The ACA is a small player right now.

That is what the GOP does not get.

It will settle in and become larger.

A larger mess.

I agree. Anything the Govt. sticks its big fat nose in becomes red tape, rules, regulations, long waits. In short a fucking mess that people have to wade through.

My wife and I worked a combined 84 years for a prime contractor for the government in Oak Ridge, TN. I'll take what you say under advisement the next time I cash our monthly pension and social security checks. If not for the government all of us would be goose stepping and speaking German.

Someone makes money in a ponzi scheme.

Yeah well we were working in a gaseous diffusion plant where we fed U-238 as it appears in nature, .7% of the material was U-235 and that was our finished product. We withdrew enough of the highly enriched uranium to manufacture over 22,000 nuclear weapons. Now I understand we've reduced the arsenal to about 8,000 weapons but it was big stuff, Top Secret back in the day. Like I said....if not for the government your ass would be goose stepping and speaking German. I will grant you this....You Talk A Mean Game! have you ever actually accomplished anything? Voting Republican doesn't count.

 

[Kosh]

Overwhelming % of problems with ACA are in red states and areas, dupe. Your problems and the ones in the article are from avoiding it due to to believing Pub propaganda.

The ACA is a small player right now.

That is what the GOP does not get.

It will settle in and become larger.

A larger mess.

I agree. Anything the Govt. sticks its big fat nose in becomes red tape, rules, regulations, long waits. In short a fucking mess that people have to wade through.

My wife and I worked a combined 84 years for a prime contractor for the government in Oak Ridge, TN. I'll take what you say under advisement the next time I cash our monthly pension and social security checks. If not for the government all of us would be goose stepping and speaking German.

Someone makes money in a ponzi scheme.

Yeah well we were working in a gaseous diffusion plant where we fed U-238 as it appears in nature, .7% of the material was U-235 and that was our finished product. We withdrew enough of the highly enriched uranium to manufacture over 22,000 nuclear weapons. Now I understand we've reduced the arsenal to about 8,000 weapons but it was big stuff, Top Secret back in the day. Like I said....if not for the government your ass would be goose stepping and speaking German. I will grant you this....You Talk A Mean Game! have you ever actually accomplished anything? Voting Republican doesn't count.

Notice hoe these far left drones claim something is natural and safe when it is not!

Voting far left is never the answer!

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Overwhelming % of problems with ACA are in red states and areas, dupe. Your problems and the ones in the article are from avoiding it due to to believing Pub propaganda.

The ACA is a small player right now.

That is what the GOP does not get.

It will settle in and become larger.

A larger mess.

I agree. Anything the Govt. sticks its big fat nose in becomes red tape, rules, regulations, long waits. In short a fucking mess that people have to wade through.

My wife and I worked a combined 84 years for a prime contractor for the government in Oak Ridge, TN. I'll take what you say under advisement the next time I cash our monthly pension and social security checks. If not for the government all of us would be goose stepping and speaking German.

Someone makes money in a ponzi scheme.

Yeah well we were working in a gaseous diffusion plant where we fed U-238 as it appears in nature, .7% of the material was U-235 and that was our finished product. We withdrew enough of the highly enriched uranium to manufacture over 22,000 nuclear weapons. Now I understand we've reduced the arsenal to about 8,000 weapons but it was big stuff, Top Secret back in the day. Like I said....if not for the government your ass would be goose stepping and speaking German. I will grant you this....You Talk A Mean Game! have you ever actually accomplished anything? Voting Republican doesn't count.

You mean I was your employer !

Thanks for letting me know.

 

[beagle9]

In my proposal the government isn't stealing from anyone, but rather it is just giving us our taxpayers money's worth by handling our account instead of the private sector who has extreme profit motive in it's interest, and offers plans that are not worth the money we are forced to give them because the market place is rigged and unfair. We need more and better options, but where not getting them.

And the word "marxist" bothers you why again exactly, Karl?

. Call me anything you won't, but why don't you contend with the ideas listed by showing the flaws in them or why I'm wrong about things ?

The irony that you don't like Republicans owning your body, then you want government ... to own your body. Government decides what and how much healthcare you get. Wow, nuts

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income.

It shouldn't be (with an American pool so large), no more than around $8.00 dollars a week deduction or less would be the amount deducted. Then when we use the healthcare card at the legitimate places of our choice, it then spurs the market into competitions for us... This is a great thing. We all win. The government just handles our accounts and cards issued us. They don't dictate anything to us, and the market will respond to us in kind if we have that kind of power invested in us.

So when government controls our health plans and decides what procedures they cover and what they pay, that isn't government "deciding anything."

Um ... I don't get it. What's the punch line?

. No, we would be the deciders not the government in my idea. The government taxed insurance coverage would be a great basic coverage for us all to have, and then if we wanted extra coverage for things like cosmetic and/or supplemental insurance coverage, then we could purchase that as an extra insurance also. The main thing is to have a basic foundational insurance coverage in which we all can rely upon. Better yet if we pay the tax for years and years, and we use only a fraction of it in our life times, then the value of our indivdual plan in percentage of, can be rolled over to increase the retirement side of life say after age 65. This should give the incentive to use the plan wisely.

 

[beagle9]

In my proposal the government isn't stealing from anyone, but rather it is just giving us our taxpayers money's worth by handling our account instead of the private sector who has extreme profit motive in it's interest, and offers plans that are not worth the money we are forced to give them because the market place is rigged and unfair. We need more and better options, but where not getting them.

And the word "marxist" bothers you why again exactly, Karl?

. Call me anything you won't, but why don't you contend with the ideas listed by showing the flaws in them or why I'm wrong about things ?

The irony that you don't like Republicans owning your body, then you want government ... to own your body. Government decides what and how much healthcare you get. Wow, nuts

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income. .

We've talked about this before. If government is "handling your account" they're going to make decisions about what kinds of health care "your account" can be used for. How can you deny that?

. If we take back our government, then government would work great for us, but as long as we keep the government we have kept, then we can't trust it just like we can't trust anything else much anymore. Isn't it amazing how sad our nation is ?

 

[beagle9]

What Beagle9 and the other Communists here cannot grasp, there are ALWAYS limits to available resources. The question is simply how do we allocate the resources we have? In our society, we have used money, as it provides an incentive to the service provider to provide the best care possible. BUT that care is contingent on the ability of the consumer to pay.

Beagle9 and the other Communists want to change the method of allocation to one of coercion. Under their plan, everyone gets a little bit of care, no one gets quality care.

Basically, if there is a pot of soup that feeds 10, and the chef sells his soup to those who have money, then 10 people get really good soup. Beagle9 comes along and wails "NO FAIR" everyone has a "right" to soup for free. A thousand people stand in line, but there is only enough soup to feed 10. The government overseer cracks his whip and tells the chef that everyone gets soup, or he gets the whip on his back. So what to do? The only thing he can do, add 999 gallons of water to the soup and give everyone the diluted mess.

And this is what happens when the Communists get hold of healthcare. The amount of service doesn't increase, in fact considering the loss of incentive and the presence of coercion, the number of doctors, American born and educated, drops tremendously. So we water it down with trade school "technicians" and foreign "doctors" who follow a script and don't really know how to practice medicine.

What the Communists like Beagle9 cannot grasp is that reality is. Even if they get the power to force others to adapt to their mindless fantasy, reality will still assert itself.

You just have to look what happened in the Soviet Union before their economic collapse took them out

Soviet Doctors used to say the state pretends to pay us and we pretend to provide healthcare.

In order to be seen by a Soviet Doctor a patient had to pay bribes.


The socialists , the berners and other fruitcakes are in for a rude awakening.


.

. Is there anyway to really compare us to the Soviets if we do something here ? Why is there a fear we want to become the Soviets if we try and improve the lives of every American by offering a basic healthcare insurance plan for all? Then if anyone wants to go farther, then they can purchase extra coverage through the private market place who would offer the extra insurance to those who can afford the extra coverage. The main thing is having a foundation on which to work from for all.

 

[beagle9]

In my proposal the government isn't stealing from anyone, but rather it is just giving us our taxpayers money's worth by handling our account instead of the private sector who has extreme profit motive in it's interest, and offers plans that are not worth the money we are forced to give them because the market place is rigged and unfair. We need more and better options, but where not getting them.

And the word "marxist" bothers you why again exactly, Karl?

. Call me anything you won't, but why don't you contend with the ideas listed by showing the flaws in them or why I'm wrong about things ?

The irony that you don't like Republicans owning your body, then you want government ... to own your body. Government decides what and how much healthcare you get. Wow, nuts

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income.

It shouldn't be (with an American pool so large), no more than around $8.00 dollars a week deduction or less would be the amount deducted. Then when we use the healthcare card at the legitimate places of our choice, it then spurs the market into competitions for us... This is a great thing. We all win. The government just handles our accounts and cards issued us. They don't dictate anything to us, and the market will respond to us in kind if we have that kind of power invested in us.

Sounds great except one thing: if WE get to decide where to go for our healthcare treatment, wouldn't we all be choosing the top rated clinics, hospitals and doctors?

For instance I'm a patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic. I've been a patient there all of my life since a child. They are renown for their medical breakthroughs, their recovery record, their most knowledgable doctors and staff.

I think that if government did give us this card (as you call it) then a lot of people would want the same top ranked care that I get. Don't get me wrong, it's not like it's the only place in town, we have many good hospitals and doctors outside of the clinic, but on the other hand, there are places I wouldn't trust to take care of my dog as well.

And if government is the only game in town, do you think they would allow us to be overweight, smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, use recreational narcotics, involve ourselves in dangerous activities or sports????

. Hopefully the bad places would fall by the wayside, and the best care would become the norm for us all if it is legit... We should have total control on where the card is used, but the card will only cover our basic life sustaining care, and it will not cover cosmetic, birth control, transgender surgeries and etc. In which would be deemed as non-life threatening situations in which would then call for prcedures services or products that are offered by the market places.

 

[kaz]

In my proposal the government isn't stealing from anyone, but rather it is just giving us our taxpayers money's worth by handling our account instead of the private sector who has extreme profit motive in it's interest, and offers plans that are not worth the money we are forced to give them because the market place is rigged and unfair. We need more and better options, but where not getting them.

And the word "marxist" bothers you why again exactly, Karl?

. Call me anything you won't, but why don't you contend with the ideas listed by showing the flaws in them or why I'm wrong about things ?

The irony that you don't like Republicans owning your body, then you want government ... to own your body. Government decides what and how much healthcare you get. Wow, nuts

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income. .

We've talked about this before. If government is "handling your account" they're going to make decisions about what kinds of health care "your account" can be used for. How can you deny that?

Not only that, but government then knows every aspect of your health. And Democrats talk about "privacy" as if they actually believe in that.

You know, government can know every aspect of your health and make the decisions for what healthcare you get (single payer), know every aspect of your financial income and assets (IRS) and track your banking transactions and monitor how much cash you get (War on Drugs).

But vote for us, we're the party who believes in ... wait for it ... privacy!!!!!!

 

[kaz]

And the word "marxist" bothers you why again exactly, Karl?

. Call me anything you won't, but why don't you contend with the ideas listed by showing the flaws in them or why I'm wrong about things ?

The irony that you don't like Republicans owning your body, then you want government ... to own your body. Government decides what and how much healthcare you get. Wow, nuts

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income.

It shouldn't be (with an American pool so large), no more than around $8.00 dollars a week deduction or less would be the amount deducted. Then when we use the healthcare card at the legitimate places of our choice, it then spurs the market into competitions for us... This is a great thing. We all win. The government just handles our accounts and cards issued us. They don't dictate anything to us, and the market will respond to us in kind if we have that kind of power invested in us.

So when government controls our health plans and decides what procedures they cover and what they pay, that isn't government "deciding anything."

Um ... I don't get it. What's the punch line?

. No, we would be the deciders not the government in my idea. The government taxed insurance coverage would be a great basic coverage for us all to have, and then if we wanted extra coverage for things like cosmetic and/or supplemental insurance coverage, then we could purchase that as an extra insurance also. The main thing is to have a basic foundational insurance coverage in which we all can rely upon. Better yet if we pay the tax for years and years, and we use only a fraction of it in our life times, then the value of our indivdual plan in percentage of, can be rolled over to increase the retirement side of life say after age 65. This should give the incentive to use the plan wisely.

So you actually believe that when government decides what doctors you can see, what they can charge, what government pays and what you have to pay, and if you don't see those doctors you are on your own, you have free choice.

Just curious, were you the product of a still birth?

 

[kaz]

And the word "marxist" bothers you why again exactly, Karl?

. Call me anything you won't, but why don't you contend with the ideas listed by showing the flaws in them or why I'm wrong about things ?

The irony that you don't like Republicans owning your body, then you want government ... to own your body. Government decides what and how much healthcare you get. Wow, nuts

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income. .

We've talked about this before. If government is "handling your account" they're going to make decisions about what kinds of health care "your account" can be used for. How can you deny that?

. If we take back our government, then government would work great for us, but as long as we keep the government we have kept, then we can't trust it just like we can't trust anything else much anymore. Isn't it amazing how sad our nation is ?

Right, we just need to find politicians who aren't corruptible by money. No sweat. You actually still believe in the easter bunny and the tooth fairy too, don't you, Beav?

 

[kaz]

Is there anyway to really compare us to the Soviets if we do something here ? Why is there a fear we want to become the Soviets if we try and improve the lives of every American by offering a basic healthcare insurance plan for all?

The operative word.

Because you fail and victimize job providers which then victimizes the rest of the population.

This is the lofty standard liberals set for yourself. You can cause unending havoc and destruction to our lives, but it's ok, you just wanted to "try." Success isn't relevant. It can be completely unsupported by logic or empirical data. But hey, let's "try" anyway

 

[kaz]

And the word "marxist" bothers you why again exactly, Karl?

. Call me anything you won't, but why don't you contend with the ideas listed by showing the flaws in them or why I'm wrong about things ?

The irony that you don't like Republicans owning your body, then you want government ... to own your body. Government decides what and how much healthcare you get. Wow, nuts

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income.

It shouldn't be (with an American pool so large), no more than around $8.00 dollars a week deduction or less would be the amount deducted. Then when we use the healthcare card at the legitimate places of our choice, it then spurs the market into competitions for us... This is a great thing. We all win. The government just handles our accounts and cards issued us. They don't dictate anything to us, and the market will respond to us in kind if we have that kind of power invested in us.

Sounds great except one thing: if WE get to decide where to go for our healthcare treatment, wouldn't we all be choosing the top rated clinics, hospitals and doctors?

For instance I'm a patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic. I've been a patient there all of my life since a child. They are renown for their medical breakthroughs, their recovery record, their most knowledgable doctors and staff.

I think that if government did give us this card (as you call it) then a lot of people would want the same top ranked care that I get. Don't get me wrong, it's not like it's the only place in town, we have many good hospitals and doctors outside of the clinic, but on the other hand, there are places I wouldn't trust to take care of my dog as well.

And if government is the only game in town, do you think they would allow us to be overweight, smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, use recreational narcotics, involve ourselves in dangerous activities or sports????

. Hopefully the bad places would fall by the wayside, and the best care would become the norm for us all if it is legit... We should have total control on where the card is used, but the card will only cover our basic life sustaining care, and it will not cover cosmetic, birth control, transgender surgeries and etc. In which would be deemed as non-life threatening situations in which would then call for prcedures services or products that are offered by the market places.

Seriously, you believe that. So now, government requires all insurance companies to cover things like sex changes (San Francisco) and hair transplants (Connecticut). But your politicians you find who are immune to lobbying to keep their lifetime career in Congress and the Senate won't be swayed by lobbyists to fund their campaigns when they have the absolute power of government guns to do whatever they want?

Feel behind your ears. It is actually wet, isn't it?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And the word "marxist" bothers you why again exactly, Karl?

. Call me anything you won't, but why don't you contend with the ideas listed by showing the flaws in them or why I'm wrong about things ?

The irony that you don't like Republicans owning your body, then you want government ... to own your body. Government decides what and how much healthcare you get. Wow, nuts

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income.

It shouldn't be (with an American pool so large), no more than around $8.00 dollars a week deduction or less would be the amount deducted. Then when we use the healthcare card at the legitimate places of our choice, it then spurs the market into competitions for us... This is a great thing. We all win. The government just handles our accounts and cards issued us. They don't dictate anything to us, and the market will respond to us in kind if we have that kind of power invested in us.

Sounds great except one thing: if WE get to decide where to go for our healthcare treatment, wouldn't we all be choosing the top rated clinics, hospitals and doctors?

For instance I'm a patient at the world famous Cleveland Clinic. I've been a patient there all of my life since a child. They are renown for their medical breakthroughs, their recovery record, their most knowledgable doctors and staff.

I think that if government did give us this card (as you call it) then a lot of people would want the same top ranked care that I get. Don't get me wrong, it's not like it's the only place in town, we have many good hospitals and doctors outside of the clinic, but on the other hand, there are places I wouldn't trust to take care of my dog as well.

And if government is the only game in town, do you think they would allow us to be overweight, smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol, use recreational narcotics, involve ourselves in dangerous activities or sports????

. Hopefully the bad places would fall by the wayside, and the best care would become the norm for us all if it is legit... We should have total control on where the card is used, but the card will only cover our basic life sustaining care, and it will not cover cosmetic, birth control, transgender surgeries and etc. In which would be deemed as non-life threatening situations in which would then call for prcedures services or products that are offered by the market places.

And you trust government to make those categories?

Okay, let's say my kidney goes, I have to go on dialysis. I don't want to be on dialysis, I want to have a normal life, so I try to get a kidney transplant.

The government deems that a kidney transplant is not necessary because they are keeping me alive on dialysis. It's a miserable life, but who cares, government says to live a miserable life.

Or I suffer a house fire which I barely escaped. I'm permanently burned on my face and neck. It will never go away on it's own. I need skin graphs and surgery that costs thousands, but such procedures are not on the governments list of necessities. As far as government is concerned, I'm alive, can go to work, and live a normal life except my appearance, but my appearance is not governments problem.

Want to see what our future looks like with all government healthcare? Look no further than Japan:

AMAGASAKI, Japan — Japan, a country not known for its overweight people, has undertaken one of the most ambitious campaigns ever by a nation to slim down its citizenry.

Summoned by the city of Amagasaki one recent morning, Minoru Nogiri, 45, a flower shop owner, found himself lining up to have his waistline measured. With no visible paunch, he seemed to run little risk of being classified as overweight, or metabo, the preferred word in Japan these days.

But because the new state-prescribed limit for male waistlines is a strict 33.5 inches, he had anxiously measured himself at home a couple of days earlier. “I’m on the border,” he said.

Under a national law that came into effect two months ago, companies and local governments must now measure the waistlines of Japanese people between the ages of 40 and 74 as part of their annual checkups. That represents more than 56 million waistlines, or about 44 percent of the entire population.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/world/asia/13fat.html?_r=0#story-continues-3
Those exceeding government limits — 33.5 inches for men and 35.4 inches for women, which are identical to thresholds established in 2005 for Japan by the International Diabetes Federation as an easy guideline for identifying health risks — and having a weight-related ailment will be given dieting guidance if after three months they do not lose weight. If necessary, those people will be steered toward further re-education after six more months.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/world/asia/13fat.html?_r=0

 

[francoHFW]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ None of this actually happens of course, fear mongered dupes...but the cost curve bends down...and many fewer die or go bankrupt...

 

[Campbell]

145 IQ, Masters in History. You, masters in RW propaganda.

Your Masters are in food stamp scamming and getting HUD homes. Who are you trying to kid????

Yours is constantly cutting tax rates for the rich, continuing to spend trillions on the military even though we're already more powerful than the next eight most powerful combined and the last time anyone actually surrendered to us was in August, 1945. The national debt belongs to Republicans......they are the ones who cut tax rates, continued to increase spending and borrowed the shortfall from foreign banks.

Then maybe you should look at a federal deficit chart and see when the deficit decreased; it was after the Republicans took leadership of Congress. And remember since that time, it's the Republicans who fought against DumBama and all his spending sprees.

And while you're at it, see what the Republicans did last time they had a major tax change. That's right, they increased taxes on the rich.

You either can't read or you're stupid. I select the latter. Look closely and let this sink in a bit. It's amazing what ending a war or two will do for spending:

Either you're trying to get away with another lie or you are absolutely clueless how our government works.

Congress are the people with the US checkbook. They decide how money is spent or not spent. The Congress leadership during both Clinton's and DumBama's terms were mostly Republican. It was Democrat leadership under Reagan.

Now look at your chart again and see if you can properly figure it out.

All I know is that in each case debt followed tax cuts. If you can figure out a way to make that a lie you're a goodamned genius:

..............................................Total U S Debt................................................

Figures Easily Verified....Taken From the Bureau of the Debt

US: $18,775,084,981,440 - Debt as of December 2015?

09/30/2014 $17,824,071,380,733.82

09/30/2013 $16,738,183,526,697.32

09/30/2012 $16,066,241,407,385.89

09/30/2011 $14,790,340,328,557.15

09/30/2010 $13,561,623,030,891.79

09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75(80% Of All Debt Across 232 Years Borrowed By Reagan And Bushes)

09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49(Times Square Debt Clock Modified To Accommodate Tens of Trillions)

09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48

09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23

09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50

09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32

09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62(Second Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16

09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06(First Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)

09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86(Administration And Congress Arguing About How To Use Surplus)

09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43(First Surplus Generated...On Track To Pay Off Debt By 2012)

09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62

09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34

09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73

09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39

09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32 (Bill Clinton Raised Taxes On The Rich early 1993)

09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38 ( Debt Quadrupled By Reagan/Bush41)

09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66

09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03

09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25

09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32

09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16

09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00

09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42

09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00

09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00

09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00

09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00(Total Debt Passes $1 Trillion)(Reagan Slashed Tax Rates To Pre Depression Levels)

09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00

 

[dblack]

And the word "marxist" bothers you why again exactly, Karl?

. Call me anything you won't, but why don't you contend with the ideas listed by showing the flaws in them or why I'm wrong about things ?

The irony that you don't like Republicans owning your body, then you want government ... to own your body. Government decides what and how much healthcare you get. Wow, nuts

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income. .

We've talked about this before. If government is "handling your account" they're going to make decisions about what kinds of health care "your account" can be used for. How can you deny that?

. If we take back our government, then government would work great for us, but as long as we keep the government we have kept, then we can't trust it just like we can't trust anything else much anymore. Isn't it amazing how sad our nation is ?

I don't know what you're getting at. You claimed that, under a system where government was providing our health insurance, "Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us." But that would never be true. The card would only be approved for use at healthcare providers authorized by government. Are you seriously saying that would not be the case, that we could, for example, use our healthcare card for "alternative medicine" (homeopathy, acupuncture, faith-healers, etc...)?

 

[Contumacious]

Almost all UK hospitals are in the red due to NHS crunch

The U.K. National Health Society’s (NHS) ongoing financial problems are jeopardizing almost all of England’s hospitals, according to a special report from BBC.

The moral of the story is that socialized medicine does NOT work.

 

[beagle9]

. Call me anything you won't, but why don't you contend with the ideas listed by showing the flaws in them or why I'm wrong about things ?

The irony that you don't like Republicans owning your body, then you want government ... to own your body. Government decides what and how much healthcare you get. Wow, nuts

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income.

It shouldn't be (with an American pool so large), no more than around $8.00 dollars a week deduction or less would be the amount deducted. Then when we use the healthcare card at the legitimate places of our choice, it then spurs the market into competitions for us... This is a great thing. We all win. The government just handles our accounts and cards issued us. They don't dictate anything to us, and the market will respond to us in kind if we have that kind of power invested in us.

So when government controls our health plans and decides what procedures they cover and what they pay, that isn't government "deciding anything."

Um ... I don't get it. What's the punch line?

. No, we would be the deciders not the government in my idea. The government taxed insurance coverage would be a great basic coverage for us all to have, and then if we wanted extra coverage for things like cosmetic and/or supplemental insurance coverage, then we could purchase that as an extra insurance also. The main thing is to have a basic foundational insurance coverage in which we all can rely upon. Better yet if we pay the tax for years and years, and we use only a fraction of it in our life times, then the value of our indivdual plan in percentage of, can be rolled over to increase the retirement side of life say after age 65. This should give the incentive to use the plan wisely.

So you actually believe that when government decides what doctors you can see, what they can charge, what government pays and what you have to pay, and if you don't see those doctors you are on your own, you have free choice.

Just curious, were you the product of a still birth?

. No, and you see these are things in which you and others believe and do know, but my plan is based upon an entirely different government. It will only work if the government is changed. Then the plan I submit would be great, because it will ensure that every American has a basic healthcare insurance policy. The terms of the service would be laid out in the plan. Anyone wanting more than the plan covers, will have to purchase added coverage in the market place. The basic coverage that will be issued all Americans with a card to use, will be affordable due the entire nation participating in it. There would be no need to not want it, because the cost of it will be miniscule. The government would yes list the legit service providers it would honor, and yet it would not refuse to do business with whom the card holder chooses, but would dispute in your best interest "over charges" and "bad services" of course. After around a few years of this studying the market place with we the taxpayers, some service providers and their services may no longer meet the standards in which the insured would expect to receive in the market place. Therefore these service providers by the will of the people would be banned. The system would be a team effort and not a government dictatorial system in which the taxpayers would have no say in.

 

[beagle9]

. Call me anything you won't, but why don't you contend with the ideas listed by showing the flaws in them or why I'm wrong about things ?

The irony that you don't like Republicans owning your body, then you want government ... to own your body. Government decides what and how much healthcare you get. Wow, nuts

. Another misleading statement about my ideas. Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us. The taxes are deducted just like SS is from our income. .

We've talked about this before. If government is "handling your account" they're going to make decisions about what kinds of health care "your account" can be used for. How can you deny that?

. If we take back our government, then government would work great for us, but as long as we keep the government we have kept, then we can't trust it just like we can't trust anything else much anymore. Isn't it amazing how sad our nation is ?

I don't know what you're getting at. You claimed that, under a system where government was providing our health insurance, "Government doesn't decide anything, because we would have the power to decide for ourselves where we use our healthcare card issued us." But that would never be true. The card would only be approved for use at healthcare providers authorized by government. Are you seriously saying that would not be the case, that we could, for example, use our healthcare card for "alternative medicine" (homeopathy, acupuncture, faith-healers, etc...)?

. Nope we could not, because the basic coverage wouldn't cover such things as that to be found within the coverage... If want those things, a person would have to purchase added coverage in the free market place that may offer such a thing. The government insurance is just a basic plan that everyone will have, but it won,'t stop anyone from purchasing additional plans that they think would be helpful to them and their needs. No one would not want to have the basic plan, because it would be so cheap in cost that it wouldn't even be noticed. I would welcome $8.00 dollars a week from my income to have a basic healthcare insurance that would never be canceled, and would be with me till retirement age, and then a formula would be worked out to add to my retirement plan a percentage of the health plan in which could be rolled over to my retirement if I hadn't used it much over the years.