Nobody needs an AK47 with a 30 round magazine

[rightwinger]

There is nothing in the second amendment that would restrict background checks or registration
Actually the second amendment encourages both

• 
• 

Please...could you, of all people tell us how background checks and gun registration actually stops crime and mass shootings....considering they don't stop all the shootings in Chicago or the other 24 most violent cities in America and they didn't stop the mass shootings in Fort Hood (2 of them), Columbine, the Colorado theater, Santa Barbara, pearl mississippi, the navy yard, Newton or any of the other mass shootings...

Please...explain what background checks, gun registration, banning assault rifles, banning magzines, actually do besides make it a pain in the ass to own guns for law abiding citizens who don't do crime or mass shootings.

Will you at least be honest and say proudly that the whole reason is to annoy legal gun owners because you don't really care about stopping real gun violence?

• 

Like a true, loyal NRAbot you have been trained to respond "it won't work" to any attempt to reduce gun violence that does not involve more guns

Fact is...It DOES work

It works in country after country around the world. Yes, they restrict gun access to civilians, they have strict background checks, registration, you need to demonstrate a need to own the weapon, sales are strictly controlled

We have murder rates five times what those other countries see.NRAbots will never admit it, but our outrageous murder rate is the price we pay for a second amendment. We are willing to accept mass killings, assasinations, a murder rate that shocks the rest of the world and sit back and say....we don't care, guns keep us safe

Really? Mexico has strict gun laws. How well have those worked? South Africa has strict gun laws. How well are those working?
Switzerland has lax gun laws. How many mass shootings are there there? So does Finland. What's the crime rate like?
.

Shall we look at Finlands "lax" gun laws?

Gun politics in Finland - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
To obtain a firearms license, an individual must declare a valid reason to own a gun (self defense is not considered "valid"). Acceptable reasons include hunting, sports or hobby shooting, profession related, show or promotion or exhibition, collection or museum, souvenir, and signalling. The applicant must provide evidence supporting the acquisition license application to prove that he or she is actually using firearms for the stated purpose(s). Such proof may consist of written declarations from other license holders as referees, shooting diaries or certificates from a shooting club.[6]
The applicant is also subjected to an extensive background check from police accessible databases and even citations for speeding or drunk driving can be grounds of not granting the license.

Conversely, a license for a pistol or a rifle is relatively easy to obtain, although the police usually require that the first gun is suitable for a beginner (usually a gun chambered in .22LR or single shot shotgun).
The firearms certificate may be cancelled if a person has committed any crimes (in addition to violent crimes, simple theft and traffic offences are also considered) or has broken certificate rules. Physical and mental problems or reckless behavior are solid grounds for cancelling the certificate.
Possessing a firearm without a license is a punishable offence. Unlicensed firearms may be confiscated by the police without punishment under a gun amnesty law, provided this happens under the individual's own initiative. Firearms surrendered in this manner are auctioned to the public or destroyed. It is also possible for the owner to get a license for the gun.

How bout it guys?

Should we switch to Finlands "lax" firearm laws?

 

[turtledude]

I have learned that in no way, in no how does Heller come close to saying that individual citizens have a right to access the same weapons as police

And you feel safer when the government is armed and the people are not. Of course you do, we can trust government...

Yup

many sheep feel safer in the pen than out on the range. Wolves get a few sheep that graze freely. Ultimately, the farmer is able to castrate, shear and slaughter each and every sheep in the pen

 

[The Rabbi]

There is nothing in the second amendment that would restrict background checks or registration
Actually the second amendment encourages both

• 
• 

Please...could you, of all people tell us how background checks and gun registration actually stops crime and mass shootings....considering they don't stop all the shootings in Chicago or the other 24 most violent cities in America and they didn't stop the mass shootings in Fort Hood (2 of them), Columbine, the Colorado theater, Santa Barbara, pearl mississippi, the navy yard, Newton or any of the other mass shootings...

Please...explain what background checks, gun registration, banning assault rifles, banning magzines, actually do besides make it a pain in the ass to own guns for law abiding citizens who don't do crime or mass shootings.

Will you at least be honest and say proudly that the whole reason is to annoy legal gun owners because you don't really care about stopping real gun violence?

• 

Like a true, loyal NRAbot you have been trained to respond "it won't work" to any attempt to reduce gun violence that does not involve more guns

Fact is...It DOES work

It works in country after country around the world. Yes, they restrict gun access to civilians, they have strict background checks, registration, you need to demonstrate a need to own the weapon, sales are strictly controlled

We have murder rates five times what those other countries see.NRAbots will never admit it, but our outrageous murder rate is the price we pay for a second amendment. We are willing to accept mass killings, assasinations, a murder rate that shocks the rest of the world and sit back and say....we don't care, guns keep us safe

Really? Mexico has strict gun laws. How well have those worked? South Africa has strict gun laws. How well are those working?
Switzerland has lax gun laws. How many mass shootings are there there? So does Finland. What's the crime rate like?
.

Shall we look at Finlands "lax" gun laws?

Gun politics in Finland - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Why dont you look at Mexico's strict gun laws. How effective have they been?
Or look at Germany's laws prior to 1969.
Or the US prior to 1968.
Instituting strict gun laws has increased violence, not decreased it. This is simply fact.

 

[turtledude]

the ARC scum want us to argue gun control on a crime control fabric because the average sheeple will generally prefer to side with government imposed "safety" schemes. So constantly pointing out to the anti gun Bots who parrot the lies of their leaders doesn't really do much other than proving the bots are lying morons. The point is, the bots and their leaders DO NOT CARE about PUBLIC SAFETY. HARASSING people who don't agree with their socialist agenda is their real goal

notice-on almost every board, its "progressives" socialists and liberals who push for gun control

 

[kaz]

Which is why you are a subject and I am a citizen.

Actually, it is I who is the citizen

A citizen of the greatest nation in the history of the world. A country where its citizens get to vote for or against lawmakers who meet their expectations. A country where a free press keeps track of both law enforcement and politicians and reports on transgressions. A country where citizens have a right to assemble and protest its government

These rights have kept us free for 225 years, a time where we have never had to rely on armed citizens

Gotcha. A question big guy. What grade did you drop out of school? I have sixth in the pool, am I close? You should read a book sometime because you ignorance of American history is, let's go with ... impressive ...

 

[M14 Shooter]

You know I'm more than capable of deciding for myself what type of gun and magazine I need.

So is the guy who wants to shoot up a movie theater

So I get punished because of his insanity?

How are you "punished" by not having a 30 round magazine for your AK47?

Not allowing people something for no reason germane to them is punishing them. It's called "freedom." Look it up sometime, Comrade.

Freedom has nothing to do with guns...

Oh look - another absurd and unsupportable statement.

 

[M14 Shooter]

because anti gun nut cases don't care about stopping crime--rather their goal is to harass gun owners because many gun owners don't buy into their far left agenda

of course those against the proliferation of guns in society care about stopping crime.

If any of they laws you want passed had any relevance to that end, we night believe you.

They also want to get rid of the proliferation of guns on the street because they see the derogatory affect it has had on the US.

99.9997% of guns in the US will NOT be used to murder someone this year.

 

[turtledude]

You know I'm more than capable of deciding for myself what type of gun and magazine I need.

So is the guy who wants to shoot up a movie theater

So I get punished because of his insanity?

How are you "punished" by not having a 30 round magazine for your AK47?

Not allowing people something for no reason germane to them is punishing them. It's called "freedom." Look it up sometime, Comrade.

Freedom has nothing to do with guns...

Oh look - another absurd and unsupportable statement.

has anyone ever seen a well reasoned and intellectually honest statement from a gun banner?

 

[M14 Shooter]

You know I'm more than capable of deciding for myself what type of gun and magazine I need.

So is the guy who wants to shoot up a movie theater

So I get punished because of his insanity?

How are you "punished" by not having a 30 round magazine for your AK47?

Not allowing people something for no reason germane to them is punishing them. It's called "freedom." Look it up sometime, Comrade.

Freedom has nothing to do with guns...

Oh look - another absurd and unsupportable statement.

has anyone ever seen a well reasoned and intellectually honest statement from a gun banner?

No. I have asked for one many times, and have yet to receive an effective response.

 

[rightwinger]

Which is why you are a subject and I am a citizen.

Actually, it is I who is the citizen

A citizen of the greatest nation in the history of the world. A country where its citizens get to vote for or against lawmakers who meet their expectations. A country where a free press keeps track of both law enforcement and politicians and reports on transgressions. A country where citizens have a right to assemble and protest its government

These rights have kept us free for 225 years, a time where we have never had to rely on armed citizens

Gotcha. A question big guy. What grade did you drop out of school? I have sixth in the pool, am I close? You should read a book sometime because you ignorance of American history is, let's go with ... impressive ...

Childish reply, but it does nothing to help you prove your point

 

[kaz]

Which is why you are a subject and I am a citizen.

Actually, it is I who is the citizen

A citizen of the greatest nation in the history of the world. A country where its citizens get to vote for or against lawmakers who meet their expectations. A country where a free press keeps track of both law enforcement and politicians and reports on transgressions. A country where citizens have a right to assemble and protest its government

These rights have kept us free for 225 years, a time where we have never had to rely on armed citizens

Gotcha. A question big guy. What grade did you drop out of school? I have sixth in the pool, am I close? You should read a book sometime because you ignorance of American history is, let's go with ... impressive ...

Childish reply, but it does nothing to help you prove your point

Give me an example of a non "childish" reply to someone who's knowledge of history is zero so he completely fabricates a politically motivated reply that makes anyone who does know history just say,

Was that childish too?

 

[turtledude]

Which is why you are a subject and I am a citizen.

Actually, it is I who is the citizen

A citizen of the greatest nation in the history of the world. A country where its citizens get to vote for or against lawmakers who meet their expectations. A country where a free press keeps track of both law enforcement and politicians and reports on transgressions. A country where citizens have a right to assemble and protest its government

These rights have kept us free for 225 years, a time where we have never had to rely on armed citizens

Gotcha. A question big guy. What grade did you drop out of school? I have sixth in the pool, am I close? You should read a book sometime because you ignorance of American history is, let's go with ... impressive ...

Childish reply, but it does nothing to help you prove your point

every one of your rants about guns is childish. and your position oozes dishonesty. You, in no way, care about crime or controlling it. You are a far lefty who wants to harass right leaning gun owners

 

[2aguy]

You do realize that they are far better armed than the average American...right...and if they decided to go on a mass shooting, they would have an actual military compliant rifle to do it with...right...? And none of the military regulations, or the license they need to keep the rifle after their service would stop them? Right?

So again...guns in the hands of law abiding citizens isn't the problem...it is criminals in cities controlled by democrats...

 

[kaz]

You do realize that they are far better armed than the average American...right...and if they decided to go on a mass shooting, they would have an actual military compliant rifle to do it with...right...? And none of the military regulations, or the license they need to keep the rifle after their service would stop them? Right?

So again...guns in the hands of law abiding citizens isn't the problem...it is criminals in cities controlled by democrats...

Democrats still can't explain why blue cities gun violence is highest, mass shooters keep seeking gun free zones, and yet we should make the whole country into what works the least. Though that is the typical liberal solution to any problem, the worst possible solution.

 

[2aguy]

People using guns to stop crime and save lives...another 64 events...

When Citizens Fight Back The Daily Caller

The Armed Citizen

At the time I write this, I’ve had 64 students involved in defensive gunplay. These were ordinary citizens, mostly white-collar and professionals, and only about seven percent “blue-collar” workers. The majority of our students are in sales, management, IT work, the medical field or other professional activity.

The majority of these incidents involved an armed robbery, which I believe is probably the most likely scenario for armed self-defense by private citizen. We’re talking about business stickups, parking lot robberies at gunpoint, carjackings and home invasions — all crimes likely to get you killed. The reason the bad guy uses a weapon is to create standoff and to terrorize the victim into compliance, before closing in to take the wallet, purse, car keys, etc.

The thug will, however, need to be close enough to his victim to communicate his desires and to easily close the distance and take the goods when the time comes. Thus the typical armed robbery occurs at anywhere from two or three steps, to roughly the length of a car — between the robber and his victim. That is, then, about three to seven yards typically, or say nine to 21′ or so. This is the distance at which most of my students have had to use their guns.

I believe we should do the bulk of our training and practice at these “most likely” distances.

Anomolies

Only two of my students’ shootings occurred at contact distance. In one of those cases the physical contact was purely accidental. In the other case physical contact was intentional, but the victim missed a large number of cues before he was struck with a club.

At the other end of the spectrum we have had three students who have had to engage at 15, 17 and 22 yards. The other 92 percent of our student-involved incidents took place at a distance of 3 to 7 yards, with the majority occurring between 3 and 5 yards. The rule of thumb then is most civilian shootings occur within the length of a car.

Only about 10 percent of our student-involved incidents occurred in or around the home, while 90 percent occurred in places like convenience stores, parking lots and shopping malls. The majority of the incidents began as armed robberies or carjackings, with a few violent break-ins involved.

The success/failure tally among the incidents involving my students is 62 wins, zero losses and two forfeits. Every one of our students who were armed won their confrontation. Only three of those were injured, and those three recovered. To the best of my knowledge, two people have gone through training with us and subsequently were murdered in separate street robberies — but neither was armed.

64 crimes stopped and lives saved...and the other two who were murdered...were unarmed...

Yes, the gun grabbers think that this is a tragedy...not the two unarmed people who were murdered....the 64 who were armed...they would prefer that those 64 people be raped, beaten, robbed, or murdered during the attack....instead of using a gun to stop it and save their lives...Right?

This doesn't even include the lives saved because these 64 robbers were shot and captured or simply held till the police arrived...

this is why the anti gun people need tinfoil hats...more people are saved using guns than are murdered by criminals with guns...instead of working to keep criminals in jail...they focus on disarming people who will then be raped, robbed, beaten or murdered...

Again...11-12,000 murders by crimiinals with guns each year...vs...250,000-375,000 crimes stopped and lives saved...

Can you anti gunners actual see the difference in those numbers...? Do you want 250-375,000 more victims?

Read more: When Citizens Fight Back The Daily Caller - Part 2

 

[kaz]

People using guns to stop crime and save lives...another 64 events...

When Citizens Fight Back The Daily Caller

The problem is guns keep us individuals, and liberals are collectivists. People dying is just part of the price of doing business when you want a ubiquitous State.

 

[The Rabbi]

You do realize that they are far better armed than the average American...right...and if they decided to go on a mass shooting, they would have an actual military compliant rifle to do it with...right...? And none of the military regulations, or the license they need to keep the rifle after their service would stop them? Right?

So again...guns in the hands of law abiding citizens isn't the problem...it is criminals in cities controlled by democrats...

Democrats still can't explain why blue cities gun violence is highest, mass shooters keep seeking gun free zones, and yet we should make the whole country into what works the least. Though that is the typical liberal solution to any problem, the worst possible solution.

Their explanation for this policy falure, like every other: We didnt do it enough.
The Clinton era ban on AWB was a total failure. It didnt reduce crime one iota. Their response: We didnt do it enough.

 

[kaz]

You do realize that they are far better armed than the average American...right...and if they decided to go on a mass shooting, they would have an actual military compliant rifle to do it with...right...? And none of the military regulations, or the license they need to keep the rifle after their service would stop them? Right?

So again...guns in the hands of law abiding citizens isn't the problem...it is criminals in cities controlled by democrats...

Democrats still can't explain why blue cities gun violence is highest, mass shooters keep seeking gun free zones, and yet we should make the whole country into what works the least. Though that is the typical liberal solution to any problem, the worst possible solution.

Their explanation for this policy falure, like every other: We didnt do it enough.
The Clinton era ban on AWB was a total failure. It didnt reduce crime one iota. Their response: We didnt do it enough.

Yes, the failure of the war on poverty is we didn't spend enough, obamacare is we aren't controlling enough. Minimum wage isn't high enough, unemployment isn't long enough. It's the way they are. Dumb, dumber, dumbest, liberal...

 

[2aguy]

Yes, the failure of the war on poverty is we didn't spend enough, obamacare is we aren't controlling enough. Minimum wage isn't high enough, unemployment isn't long enough. It's the way they are. Dumb, dumber, dumbest, liberal...

And then...one of them gets the bright idea...."you know...if we just locked up those pesky opponents who won't let us do more...we could get more of what we want done....I know...let's build a camp..."

and the history of the 20th century becomes...the present of the 21st century...

 

[Jarlaxle]

Why is it fair to compare us to countries whose populations look nothing like ours? I offer a comparison between two cities populated by Americans with the exact same laws and wildly different crime rates. And of course you ignore it.

One of the SAFEST states in the US has the country's loosest gun laws.