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Do you mind taking ownership of this disaster for a change instead of deflecting to something irrelevant?Does Hewitt or Graham tell you that they would be willing to do what Obama wouldn't do? Leave American troops in Iraq without immunity to Iraqi prosecution?
FYI - We NEVER had intentions to win in Iraq, Viet Nam, or Afghanistan. We do NOT fight war as war, rather we fight political and diplomatic wars.Senator Lindsey Graham explains how Obama lost Iraq by refusing to keep troops in Iraq. The myth that it was Bush's fault is exactly that, a myth. graham and McCain were part of the group sent over to negotiate the status of forces agreement and he explained how it went with Hugh Hewitt, Lawyer, law professor, author and radio host....
Who Lost Iraq Power Line
Lindsey Graham: I think it was our fault. The president got the answer he wanted when it comes to troop levels. He wanted zero. He got zero. He promised to end the War in Iraq. He actually lost the War in Iraq.
But this is something that most people don’t know. I want to make sure you understand. Secretary Clinton called me to go over to Iraq to talk to all the parties to see if we can find a way to achieve a residual force to be left behind. I went with Senator McCain and Senator Lieberman. We met with Mr. Allawi who’s is the Aratia party leader, the former prime minister. He is a Shia, but it was a Sunni coalition. We flew up to meet with President Barzani – not president – but Barzani, the head of the Kurds. … Then we met with Maliki.
So we had Ambassador Jeffrey – U.S. Ambassador to Iraq and Gen. Austin, the commander of Iraq forces at the time in the meeting with me, Maliki, and McCain. I asked Prime Minister Maliki, “Would you accept troops?” He says, “If other will, I will.” Then he turned to me and said, “How many troops are you talking about?” I turned to Gen. Austin and then Ambassador Jeffrey – “What’s the answer to the prime minister’s question?” Gen. Dreyfuss says, “We’re still working on the number.” The number went from 18,000 recommended by Austin down to 3,000 coming out of the White House.
General Dempsey answered Senator McCain’s question and my question as to how the numbers went down – “What is because the Iraqis suggest too many?” He said, “No, the cascading numbers came from the White House.” I was there. They were all ready to accept a residual force. But when you get below 3,000, it was a joke. And we got the answer we wanted. I was on the ground. I asked the question. I heard the answer from Gen. Austin – the White House hasn’t made up their mind, yet.
you do know the troops we have there are not Imuned from the law right? The Iraq parliament has never voted on it.Do you mind taking ownership of this disaster for a change instead of deflecting to something irrelevant?Does Hewitt or Graham tell you that they would be willing to do what Obama wouldn't do? Leave American troops in Iraq without immunity to Iraqi prosecution?
So, you would keep American troops in Iraq without immunity from prosecution under Iraqi law, accept Iraqi approval of all U.S. missions, have US troops leave Iraqi cities and confine themselves behind walls while waiting to be assigned approved missions by the Iraqi government, allow Iraq the right to search and inventory all U.S. cargo entering the country and turn over all captured prisoners to Iraqi authorities
Not surprising ...So did Bush....
Obama could have arranged any deal he wanted if he wanted it......they owed us everything, and had no say over the deal....
you do know the troops we have there are not Imuned from the law right? The Iraq parliament has never voted on it.Do you mind taking ownership of this disaster for a change instead of deflecting to something irrelevant?Does Hewitt or Graham tell you that they would be willing to do what Obama wouldn't do? Leave American troops in Iraq without immunity to Iraqi prosecution?
So, you would keep American troops in Iraq without immunity from prosecution under Iraqi law, accept Iraqi approval of all U.S. missions, have US troops leave Iraqi cities and confine themselves behind walls while waiting to be assigned approved missions by the Iraqi government, allow Iraq the right to search and inventory all U.S. cargo entering the country and turn over all captured prisoners to Iraqi authorities
Not surprising ...So did Bush....
I never realized the insane. You however, seem to find no problem with that.We had Iraq won...then the disaster you assholes elected lost it. Just another failure in a long list of failures for the inept jackass
You're free to go over there & fight to win Iraq back. Don't be afraid, there are many Americans over there trying it. Just stop forcing US to go broke.
The United States federal government has spent or obligated 4.4 trillion dollars on the wars in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq. This figure includes: direct Congressional war appropriations; war-related increases to the Pentagon base budget; veterans care and disability; increases in the homeland security budget; interest payments on direct war borrowing; foreign assistance spending; and estimated future obligations for veterans’ care.
This total omits many other expenses, such as the macroeconomic costs to the US economy; the opportunity costs of not investing war dollars in alternative sectors; future interest on war borrowing; and local government and private war costs.
The current wars have been paid for almost entirely by borrowing. This borrowing has raised the US budget deficit, increased the national debt, and had other macroeconomic effects, such as raising consumer interest rates. Unless the US immediately repays the money borrowed for war, there will also be future interest payments. We estimate that interest payments could total over $7 trillion by 2053.
Spending on the wars has involved opportunity costs for the US economy. Although military spending does produce jobs, spending in other areas such as health care could produce more jobs. Additionally, while investment in military infrastructure grew, investment in other, nonmilitary, public infrastructure such as roads and schools did not grow at the same rate.
Finally, federal war costs exclude billions of dollars of state, municipal, and private war costs across the country – dollars spent on services for returned veterans and their families, in addition to local homeland security efforts.
And do you realize that Obozo is letting Turkey bomb the Americans that WILL go over there and fight against ISIS??????
So the answer is No, you will not take ownership of this disaster.Do you mind taking ownership of this disaster for a change instead of deflecting to something irrelevant?Does Hewitt or Graham tell you that they would be willing to do what Obama wouldn't do? Leave American troops in Iraq without immunity to Iraqi prosecution?
So, you would keep American troops in Iraq without immunity from prosecution under Iraqi law, accept Iraqi approval of all U.S. missions, have US troops leave Iraqi cities and confine themselves behind walls while waiting to be assigned approved missions by the Iraqi government, allow Iraq the right to search and inventory all U.S. cargo entering the country and turn over all captured prisoners to Iraqi authorities
Not surprising ...So did Bush....
So the answer is No, you will not take ownership of this disaster.Do you mind taking ownership of this disaster for a change instead of deflecting to something irrelevant?Does Hewitt or Graham tell you that they would be willing to do what Obama wouldn't do? Leave American troops in Iraq without immunity to Iraqi prosecution?
So, you would keep American troops in Iraq without immunity from prosecution under Iraqi law, accept Iraqi approval of all U.S. missions, have US troops leave Iraqi cities and confine themselves behind walls while waiting to be assigned approved missions by the Iraqi government, allow Iraq the right to search and inventory all U.S. cargo entering the country and turn over all captured prisoners to Iraqi authorities
Not surprising ...So did Bush....
What a shock. Not. Obama fucked up Iraq and blamed Bush, after taking credit for ending the Iraq War on Bush's timetable.
You truly are clueless.So the answer is No, you will not take ownership of this disaster.Do you mind taking ownership of this disaster for a change instead of deflecting to something irrelevant?Does Hewitt or Graham tell you that they would be willing to do what Obama wouldn't do? Leave American troops in Iraq without immunity to Iraqi prosecution?
So, you would keep American troops in Iraq without immunity from prosecution under Iraqi law, accept Iraqi approval of all U.S. missions, have US troops leave Iraqi cities and confine themselves behind walls while waiting to be assigned approved missions by the Iraqi government, allow Iraq the right to search and inventory all U.S. cargo entering the country and turn over all captured prisoners to Iraqi authorities
Not surprising ...So did Bush....
What a shock. Not. Obama fucked up Iraq and blamed Bush, after taking credit for ending the Iraq War on Bush's timetable.
Obama ended the war "ON BUSH'S TIMETABLE"...but somehow it is Obama's fault...
You truly are a partisan hack...
So the answer is No, you will not take ownership of this disaster.Do you mind taking ownership of this disaster for a change instead of deflecting to something irrelevant?Does Hewitt or Graham tell you that they would be willing to do what Obama wouldn't do? Leave American troops in Iraq without immunity to Iraqi prosecution?
So, you would keep American troops in Iraq without immunity from prosecution under Iraqi law, accept Iraqi approval of all U.S. missions, have US troops leave Iraqi cities and confine themselves behind walls while waiting to be assigned approved missions by the Iraqi government, allow Iraq the right to search and inventory all U.S. cargo entering the country and turn over all captured prisoners to Iraqi authorities
Not surprising ...So did Bush....
What a shock. Not. Obama fucked up Iraq and blamed Bush, after taking credit for ending the Iraq War on Bush's timetable.
Obama ended the war "ON BUSH'S TIMETABLE"...but somehow it is Obama's fault...
You truly are a partisan hack...
Tissue?Yeah Rabbi, you and your little playmates would love to see
me gone. You just hate the fact I own you and your fellow talking point echo chambers.
Can you dispute my post? No.
Obama ended the war on Bush's timetable but not on Bush's conditiosn. He was free to renegotatiate the treaty but chose instead to withdraw helter skelter, against the advice of his own SecDef and others.
That didnt prevent him from taking credit for the withdrawal when things looked good.
Or blame Bush for the withdrawal when things went bad.
In all Obama takes credit for others' achievments and blames others for his own failures.
Didnt bother to read the OP, I see. Obama fucked up. He left Iraq without thinking about future security needs. This allowed ISIS to arise and take over half the state. Then he fucked up a second time and allowed Assad to keep his chemical weapons after setting a red line. Then ISIS got the chem weapons from Assad and used them on the Kurds,our only real ally in that shithole, thus compounding his first two failures.Obama ended the war on Bush's timetable but not on Bush's conditiosn. He was free to renegotatiate the treaty but chose instead to withdraw helter skelter, against the advice of his own SecDef and others.
That didnt prevent him from taking credit for the withdrawal when things looked good.
Or blame Bush for the withdrawal when things went bad.
In all Obama takes credit for others' achievments and blames others for his own failures.
They were EXACTLY Bush's conditions...Bush SIGNED those conditions...
What EXACTLY did you expect Obama to say when the BUSH SOFA ended on January 1, 2012? Did you want him to say that we are leaving Bush's mess to the Iraqis? Obama covered Bush's ass...
Some folks disagree with you...ISIS and George W. Bush...
The Muslim terrorist group, ISIS, issued a statement attributing their success to the Iraq war, and they had John McCain to thank for it. In the statement they wrote:
…the crusader John McCain came to the Senate floor to rant irritably about the victories the Islamic State was achieving in Iraq. He forgot that he himself participated in the invasion of Iraq that led to the blessed events unfolding today by Allah’s bounty and justice.
ISIS Praises John McCain For Helping Them Invade Iraq - Walid Shoebat
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
George W. Bush has only one regret about invading Iraq: that it paved the way for the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.
Read more: Bush One regret about Iraq - Kendall Breitman - POLITICO.com
Didnt bother to read the OP, I see. Obama fucked up. He left Iraq without thinking about future security needs. This allowed ISIS to arise and take over half the state. Then he fucked up a second time and allowed Assad to keep his chemical weapons after setting a red line. Then ISIS got the chem weapons from Assad and used them on the Kurds,our only real ally in that shithole, thus compounding his first two failures.Obama ended the war on Bush's timetable but not on Bush's conditiosn. He was free to renegotatiate the treaty but chose instead to withdraw helter skelter, against the advice of his own SecDef and others.
That didnt prevent him from taking credit for the withdrawal when things looked good.
Or blame Bush for the withdrawal when things went bad.
In all Obama takes credit for others' achievments and blames others for his own failures.
They were EXACTLY Bush's conditions...Bush SIGNED those conditions...
What EXACTLY did you expect Obama to say when the BUSH SOFA ended on January 1, 2012? Did you want him to say that we are leaving Bush's mess to the Iraqis? Obama covered Bush's ass...
Some folks disagree with you...ISIS and George W. Bush...
The Muslim terrorist group, ISIS, issued a statement attributing their success to the Iraq war, and they had John McCain to thank for it. In the statement they wrote:
…the crusader John McCain came to the Senate floor to rant irritably about the victories the Islamic State was achieving in Iraq. He forgot that he himself participated in the invasion of Iraq that led to the blessed events unfolding today by Allah’s bounty and justice.
ISIS Praises John McCain For Helping Them Invade Iraq - Walid Shoebat
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
George W. Bush has only one regret about invading Iraq: that it paved the way for the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.
Read more: Bush One regret about Iraq - Kendall Breitman - POLITICO.com
That contradicts what 2 SecDefs under Obama have written, along with the OP.Didnt bother to read the OP, I see. Obama fucked up. He left Iraq without thinking about future security needs. This allowed ISIS to arise and take over half the state. Then he fucked up a second time and allowed Assad to keep his chemical weapons after setting a red line. Then ISIS got the chem weapons from Assad and used them on the Kurds,our only real ally in that shithole, thus compounding his first two failures.Obama ended the war on Bush's timetable but not on Bush's conditiosn. He was free to renegotatiate the treaty but chose instead to withdraw helter skelter, against the advice of his own SecDef and others.
That didnt prevent him from taking credit for the withdrawal when things looked good.
Or blame Bush for the withdrawal when things went bad.
In all Obama takes credit for others' achievments and blames others for his own failures.
They were EXACTLY Bush's conditions...Bush SIGNED those conditions...
What EXACTLY did you expect Obama to say when the BUSH SOFA ended on January 1, 2012? Did you want him to say that we are leaving Bush's mess to the Iraqis? Obama covered Bush's ass...
Some folks disagree with you...ISIS and George W. Bush...
The Muslim terrorist group, ISIS, issued a statement attributing their success to the Iraq war, and they had John McCain to thank for it. In the statement they wrote:
…the crusader John McCain came to the Senate floor to rant irritably about the victories the Islamic State was achieving in Iraq. He forgot that he himself participated in the invasion of Iraq that led to the blessed events unfolding today by Allah’s bounty and justice.
ISIS Praises John McCain For Helping Them Invade Iraq - Walid Shoebat
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
George W. Bush has only one regret about invading Iraq: that it paved the way for the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.
Read more: Bush One regret about Iraq - Kendall Breitman - POLITICO.com
NO, Obama left Iraq because he would not put our sons and daughters in a shithole without immunity.
OBVIOUSLY you WOULD throw our troops to the wolves...
That contradicts what 2 SecDefs under Obama have written, along with the OP.Didnt bother to read the OP, I see. Obama fucked up. He left Iraq without thinking about future security needs. This allowed ISIS to arise and take over half the state. Then he fucked up a second time and allowed Assad to keep his chemical weapons after setting a red line. Then ISIS got the chem weapons from Assad and used them on the Kurds,our only real ally in that shithole, thus compounding his first two failures.Obama ended the war on Bush's timetable but not on Bush's conditiosn. He was free to renegotatiate the treaty but chose instead to withdraw helter skelter, against the advice of his own SecDef and others.
That didnt prevent him from taking credit for the withdrawal when things looked good.
Or blame Bush for the withdrawal when things went bad.
In all Obama takes credit for others' achievments and blames others for his own failures.
They were EXACTLY Bush's conditions...Bush SIGNED those conditions...
What EXACTLY did you expect Obama to say when the BUSH SOFA ended on January 1, 2012? Did you want him to say that we are leaving Bush's mess to the Iraqis? Obama covered Bush's ass...
Some folks disagree with you...ISIS and George W. Bush...
The Muslim terrorist group, ISIS, issued a statement attributing their success to the Iraq war, and they had John McCain to thank for it. In the statement they wrote:
…the crusader John McCain came to the Senate floor to rant irritably about the victories the Islamic State was achieving in Iraq. He forgot that he himself participated in the invasion of Iraq that led to the blessed events unfolding today by Allah’s bounty and justice.
ISIS Praises John McCain For Helping Them Invade Iraq - Walid Shoebat
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
George W. Bush has only one regret about invading Iraq: that it paved the way for the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.
Read more: Bush One regret about Iraq - Kendall Breitman - POLITICO.com
NO, Obama left Iraq because he would not put our sons and daughters in a shithole without immunity.
OBVIOUSLY you WOULD throw our troops to the wolves...
You want to try again with something with more credible?
That's sort of one opinion against about 3 or 4. His opinion is that American troops wouldnt have prevented ISIS anyway, something unknowable.That contradicts what 2 SecDefs under Obama have written, along with the OP.Didnt bother to read the OP, I see. Obama fucked up. He left Iraq without thinking about future security needs. This allowed ISIS to arise and take over half the state. Then he fucked up a second time and allowed Assad to keep his chemical weapons after setting a red line. Then ISIS got the chem weapons from Assad and used them on the Kurds,our only real ally in that shithole, thus compounding his first two failures.Obama ended the war on Bush's timetable but not on Bush's conditiosn. He was free to renegotatiate the treaty but chose instead to withdraw helter skelter, against the advice of his own SecDef and others.
That didnt prevent him from taking credit for the withdrawal when things looked good.
Or blame Bush for the withdrawal when things went bad.
In all Obama takes credit for others' achievments and blames others for his own failures.
They were EXACTLY Bush's conditions...Bush SIGNED those conditions...
What EXACTLY did you expect Obama to say when the BUSH SOFA ended on January 1, 2012? Did you want him to say that we are leaving Bush's mess to the Iraqis? Obama covered Bush's ass...
Some folks disagree with you...ISIS and George W. Bush...
The Muslim terrorist group, ISIS, issued a statement attributing their success to the Iraq war, and they had John McCain to thank for it. In the statement they wrote:
…the crusader John McCain came to the Senate floor to rant irritably about the victories the Islamic State was achieving in Iraq. He forgot that he himself participated in the invasion of Iraq that led to the blessed events unfolding today by Allah’s bounty and justice.
ISIS Praises John McCain For Helping Them Invade Iraq - Walid Shoebat
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
George W. Bush has only one regret about invading Iraq: that it paved the way for the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.
Read more: Bush One regret about Iraq - Kendall Breitman - POLITICO.com
NO, Obama left Iraq because he would not put our sons and daughters in a shithole without immunity.
OBVIOUSLY you WOULD throw our troops to the wolves...
You want to try again with something with more credible?
How about the Ambassador to Iraq?
Wall Street Journal
The Obama administration was willing to “roll over” the terms of the 2008 Status of Forces Agreement as long as the new agreement, like the first, was ratified by the Iraqi Parliament.
Iraqi party leaders repeatedly reviewed the SOFA terms but by October 2011 were at an impasse. All accepted a U.S. troop presence—with the exception of the Sadrist faction, headed by the anti-American cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, which held some 40 of Iraq’s 325 parliamentary seats. But on immunities only the Kurdish parties, with some 60 seats, would offer support. Neither Mr. Maliki, with some 120 seats, nor former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, the leader of the largely Sunni Arab Iraqiya party with 80 more, would definitively provide support. With time running out, given long-standing U.S. policy that troops stationed overseas must have legal immunity, negotiations ended and the troop withdrawal was completed.
Given the success in winning a SOFA in 2008, what led to this failure? First, the need for U.S. troops was not self-evident in 2011. Iraq appeared stable, with oil exports of two million barrels a day at about $90 a barrel, and security much improved. Second, politics had turned against a troop presence; the bitterly anti-U.S. Sadrists were active in Parliament, the Sunni Arabs more ambivalent toward the U.S., and polls indicated that less than 20% of the Iraqi population wanted U.S. troops.
Could the administration have used more leverage, as many have asserted? Again, the main hurdle was immunities. The reality is that foreign troops in any land are generally unpopular and granting them immunity is complicated. In a constitutional democracy it requires parliament to waive its own laws. An agreement signed by Mr. Maliki without parliamentary approval, as he suggested, would not suffice. (The legal status of the small number of “noncombat” U.S. troops currently redeployed to Iraq is an emergency exception to usual SOFA policy.)
Some suggest that the U.S. could have made economic aid or arms deliveries contingent on a Status of Forces Agreement. But by 2011 the U.S. was providing relatively little economic aid to Iraq, and arms deliveries were essential to American and Iraqi security. Was the 5,000 troop number too small to motivate the Iraqis? No Iraqi made that argument to me; generally, smaller forces are more sellable. Could someone other than Mr. Maliki have been more supportive, and were the Iranians opposed? Of course, but with or without Mr. Maliki and Iranians we faced deep resistance from parliamentarians and the public.
Could a residual force have prevented ISIS’s victories? With troops we would have had better intelligence on al Qaeda in Iraq and later ISIS, a more attentive Washington, and no doubt a better-trained Iraqi army. But the common argument that U.S. troops could have produced different Iraqi political outcomes is hogwash. The Iraqi sectarian divides, which ISIS exploited, run deep and were not susceptible to permanent remedy by our troops at their height, let alone by 5,000 trainers under Iraqi restraints.
Mr. Jeffrey, a visiting fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, served as U.S. ambassador to Iraq (2010-12) and Turkey (2008-10), among other posts.
That's sort of one opinion against about 3 or 4. His opinion is that American troops wouldnt have prevented ISIS anyway, something unknowable.
Actually 2 US SecDefs under Obama said that.That's sort of one opinion against about 3 or 4. His opinion is that American troops wouldnt have prevented ISIS anyway, something unknowable.
Well you right wing turds have 20/20 hindsight...and you somehow believe Obama could have forced the Iraqi Parliament to to waive its own laws.
So let's cut to the chase...should Obama have agreed to leaving our troops in Iraq without immunity?
Yes, or no?
