Obama Bypasses Congress and Bans the Confederate Battle Flag

[Syriusly]

You know, if after the civil war started the entire south had said "we don't care about slaves, here we are freeing them all right now" I would say yes they were fighting for something more noble than defending an economy built on slavery. They didn't and they weren't. Read up on how blacks fighting for the North were treated when captured by southern soldiers. Think Isis.

England or any other foreign entity is a Red Herring and not worthy of comment.

It was not all about slavery. Lincoln even said as much. It was a constitutional crisis. "Could the states leave the Union after ratification? Was it a binding contract?" Slavery was put into the popular history after communist Carl Sandburg wrote his biography of Lincoln.

The south seceded to preserve the institution of slavery......one of the most despicable nations ever formed in history

I thought, according to liberals like Howard Zinn the United States was the most despicable nation ever formed.

The U.S. was founded by liberals.

The confederacy was formed to ensure they could maintain four million people in slavery in perpetuity

The United States was founded by white, property owning, slave owning, males, who were normal for their time.

The United States was founded by men and women, white and other races.

Most didn't own slaves. A few of the wealthy did.

The Confederacy was formed to protect the 'rights' of slave owners who felt their 'right' to own slaves would be threatened by the election of Abraham Lincoln.

And in doing so- ended up losing all of their slave property.

 

[Syriusly]

The US government is removing, 150 years later, the battle flag of the traitors to the nation? And they have a problem with this?

[...]

Please do not misconstrue my comment as having a pro-slavery context but I must disagree with your statement that Confederate rebels were "traitors." They were secessionists and secession is not treason unless it takes place during a war with a foreign nation. Secession is not betrayal.

I am not a Southerner. I'm from Brooklyn. What I learned during the time I was stationed in North Carolina is all contemporary White Southerners are not descendant from slave-owners, nor did they, or do they, benefit in any way from the practice of slavery. In fact many White Southerners were, and are, opposed to it. Some of them quite bitterly.

Someone, I don't know who, has observed that; "The South dislikes the Negro as a race but accepts him as a person, while the North accepts the Negro as a race but rejects him as a person."

They fired on a United States fort. The Confederate commanding officer that gave the command to fire on Fort Sumter was a junior officer under the command of the Union commander in Fort Sumter. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what your enemies do. The mechanisms were in place in the democracy for them to attempt to vote their views into law, which they did up until the late 1850's. But when they weren't getting their way anymore they decided this form of government isn't for us.

Americans were fighting Americans. Ft. Sumter by then was symbol of federal tyranny. Just like Kings statue was in 1775-76.

U.S. Property flying the U.S. Flag

Fired on by traitors in order to protect their ability to hold four million people in slavery

Fired on to show federal government they were serious about secession and there would be no more incidents like the "Nullification Crisis of 1834."

Well they found out what happens when you fire on American troops.

 

[Syriusly]

For people who don't like Muslims, their forebears sure brought a lot of them to our shores. Fifteen to thirty percent of the male slaves to the US were Muslim.

As were those fellow Africans (Muslims?) who enslaved them and sold them to Dutch, Portugese and Arab (Muslim) traders, who in turn sold them to Western slave dealers.

Slavery is endemic to the Muslim culture and continues to this day in some parts of their world, the Sudan for one prime example. There a healthy young male can be purchased today for about a thousand U.S. dollars.

That's a pretty good reason to not like Muslims -- and there are more.

So you think the reason to dislike Muslim slaves - is because Muslims have a 'slave culture'?

Like the Confederacy?

 

[Syriusly]

They fired on a United States fort. The Confederate commanding officer that gave the command to fire on Fort Sumter was a junior officer under the command of the Union commander in Fort Sumter. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what your enemies do. The mechanisms were in place in the democracy for them to attempt to vote their views into law, which they did up until the late 1850's. But when they weren't getting their way anymore they decided this form of government isn't for us.

That's called rebellion, not betrayal.

If they did it on behalf of, or in collusion with, a foreign entity, then it would be treachery. But they didn't, so it wasn't.

They actively sought out alliances with both Great Britain and France- which ultimately rejected the alliances because both the UK and France had already banned slavery- and Lincoln had issued the Emancipation Proclamation.

The Confederates would have been thrilled to collude with Great Britain against the United States.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Obama Bypasses Congress and Bans the Confederate Battle Flag - Minutemen News

Once again this president does something he has no power to do. If Paul Ryan wasn't such a coward he could do something about this. The pres should have been impeached a long time ago.

Barack Obama does hate America, Barack Obama an evil man, He is destroying America, Is aiding and abetting a Muslim caliphate and as such Is a Traitor, he is a Communist, and should be considered a terrorist by every traditional American of sound mind.

For instance, throughout his presidency he has rightfully earned the tittle
of - America's Best Gun Salesman -. It is this accomplishment that
history will most fondly remember him.

Wrong.

Nothing is being ‘banned.’

Citizens remain at liberty to fly any flag they so desire, including the ‘confederate’ flag.

Flags flown at cemeteries operated by the Veterans Affairs Department constitute government speech, where deciding the content of that speech is not un-Constitutional viewpoint discrimination, nor does it deny citizens their right to freedom of expression, and in no way manifests as a ‘ban.’ See Walker v. Texas Division, Sons of Confederate Veterans, Inc. (2015)

Moreover, DVA is a cabinet-level department, where neither the president nor the Department ‘bypassed’ Congress concerning the decision regarding the ‘confederate’ flags.

Again, the thread premise is just another ridiculous rightwing lie.

 

[Syriusly]

Why wouldn't you ban the flag of traitors intent on preserving the right to own slaves?

Because we don't ban freedom of expression in this country.

Was that so hard ?

No one has banned any flags.

You can fly your Nazi flag, your Confederate flag or your NASCAR flag on your private property to your hearts desire.

 

[Syriusly]

The south seceded to preserve the institution of slavery......one of the most despicable nations ever formed in history

I thought, according to liberals like Howard Zinn the United States was the most despicable nation ever formed.

The U.S. was founded by liberals.

The confederacy was formed to ensure they could maintain four million people in slavery in perpetuity

The United States was founded by white, property owning, slave owning, males, who were normal for their time.

You talking about slave rapers?

So you look to bitch at what happens 200 years ago. Typical ,libetal fuck face. He pal....livin in the greatest nation ever created......

Wow- you sound like Michelle Obama.

Isn't it a shame that Donald Trump doesn't think as highly of the United States as you and Michelle Obama do?

 

[Syriusly]

The U.S. was founded by liberals.

The confederacy was formed to ensure they could maintain four million people in slavery in perpetuity

Nice bending of history. The only similarity between "liberals" then and "liberals" now is that liberals then would be revolting against the authoritarian assholes who call themselves liberals now.

Well it depends on your definition of 'liberal'- they certainly were not 'Conservatives'.

The Tories were political conservatives who wanted to keep the status quo.
The Americans who drew up the Bill of Rights were certainly liberals

 

[MikeK]

And remember- when we say "Union" what we are talking about are United States Army troops.

Yes- the Confederate slave states started the war when they fired on American troops in an American fort.

The Confederate troops were Americans. They fired on Union troops whom they regarded as oppressive government police agents committed to enforcement of laws the Confederates considered to be wrongful and tyrannical.

The Confederates were no less American than were their Union adversaries.

 

[Syriusly]

And remember- when we say "Union" what we are talking about are United States Army troops.

Yes- the Confederate slave states started the war when they fired on American troops in an American fort.

The Confederate troops were Americans. They fired on Union troops whom they regarded as oppressive government police agents committed to enforcement of laws the Confederates considered to be wrongful and tyrannical.

The Confederates were no less American than were their Union adversaries.

The Confederate Troops were troops of the Confederate States of America- formed to protect slave ownership.
The troops on Fort Sumter were troops of the United States Army- exactly the same as troops stationed in Fort Benning are today.

The Rebel troops fired on troops of the United States Army and ultimately the Southern Slave rebel states suffered the consequence for firing on United States Army troops.

 

[JQPublic1]

The human race started in Africa but the history of slavery started with the written accounts of it, or with drawings depicting it. Your ancestors are the same as Black's ancestors so what is your point?

You think history began with writing? Interesting. IIRC, it began with the development of both agriculture and domestication of animals.

Yes, we all have the same ancestors. Yet you're a racist and I'm not. Why?

Actually ,oral history does exist but remains localized in primitive settings around the globe. Writing is the means by which events can be catalogued and disseminated to large group of people. A crucial consistency is afforded by written words that oral traditions cannot approach. Much of the history of Africa has been lost or undervalued because many native counties had no written language.

RACE: I don't believe in race, therefore I cannot be a racist. Do you believe in race? Obviously you do and that, technically, for better or worse, makes YOU a racist.

 

[JQPublic1]

And remember- when we say "Union" what we are talking about are United States Army troops.

Yes- the Confederate slave states started the war when they fired on American troops in an American fort.

The Confederate troops were Americans. They fired on Union troops whom they regarded as oppressive government police agents committed to enforcement of laws the Confederates considered to be wrongful and tyrannical.

The Confederates were no less American than were their Union adversaries.

Mexican nationals and Canadian nationals are Americans too as are all the citizens of South and Central America. But none of them are US citizens and neither were the estranged Confederates who gave up their US citizenship willfully by the very act of forming the Confederacy and adopting a separate Constitution.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Why wouldn't you ban the flag of traitors intent on preserving the right to own slaves?

Because we don't ban freedom of expression in this country.

Was that so hard ?

No one has banned any flags.

You can fly your Nazi flag, your Confederate flag or your NASCAR flag on your private property to your hearts desire.

Is this still a thing?

Our fundie nutter cleaning woman complained that Obama had banned the confederate battle flag and was pissed when I showed that she was wrong.

She's our EX-cleaning woman because she asked for a big advance two months ago and then never came back to work it off.

 

[Vandalshandle]

FALSE: Obama Bans Confederate Flag Through Executive Order

Yet another RW lie exposed. And, of course, the radicals believe every word.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I have a question for liberals. If the war was about slavery, how come 250,000 men who didn't own slaves lost their lives fighting for the handful who did? Why would anyone do that? Does that make sense? Not everyone was a slave owner, in fact by all means most people didn't own any slaves. So why would so many risk their lives to fight for someone's right to own something they didn't even have?

I won't comment on Obama banning anything because I don't believe it, but I'd love to discuss the true history of the civil war.

This isn’t a ‘questions for liberals,’ this isn’t a partisan issue.

That those who didn’t own slaves fought for the ‘confederacy’ in no way undermines the fact that the war was about slavery, to either preserve it or destroy the institution.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

“Simply put, there's no truth to the claim that President Obama has outlawed the sale or ownership of Confederate flags or other items bearing an image of such. This is nothing more than a fake news item: the President did not issue any such executive order, nor did he amend the U.S. Code (by any means) to expand the definition of hate crimes to include possession of Confederate flags.”

Unfortunately, most on the right practice the doctrine of repeating a lie often enough in the hope it’s perceived to be ‘true.’

 

[edthecynic]

Who said the president banned anything? The OP that's who. The president didn't ban anything EO or otherwise. The racist flag was banned by the National Cemetery Administration.

I always fascinated by a person who lies then compounds that lie with another lie. Thanks for completely ignoring my post including the link. It tells me all I have to know about your integrity, intelligence and level of racism and partisanship.

From the article cited in the OP:

Veterans Affairs quietly bans the Confederate flag at cemeteries it runs

Mr. Walters, in his letter to Mr. Huffman, said the National Cemetery Administration had been awaiting direction fromCongress but this summer decided it was moving ahead anyway.

“Although it appears that Congress will not adopt any modifications … NCA has decided to reverse its policy in a manner that is consistent with the House amendment,” he wrote.

 

[Divine Wind]

"Obama Bypasses Congress and Bans the Confederate Battle Flag"

No one believes this ridiculous lie.

Is the flag banned or not?

FWIW, there's a section of Greenwood Cemetery here in Fort Worth, TX that "will be Forever England": British Commonwealth War Grave Cemetery -- Greenwood Cemetery, Fort Worth TX - Veteran Cemeteries on Waymarking.com

Will President Obama be banning the British flag too since they used to be enemies?

 

[Al Azar]

"Obama Bypasses Congress and Bans the Confederate Battle Flag"

No one believes this ridiculous lie.

Is the flag banned or not?

FWIW, there's a section of Greenwood Cemetery here in Fort Worth, TX that "will be Forever England": British Commonwealth War Grave Cemetery -- Greenwood Cemetery, Fort Worth TX - Veteran Cemeteries on Waymarking.com

Will President Obama be banning the British flag too since they used to be enemies?

British soldiers weren't traitors to their country.

 

[Divine Wind]

Well it depends on your definition of 'liberal'- they certainly were not 'Conservatives'.

The Tories were political conservatives who wanted to keep the status quo.
The Americans who drew up the Bill of Rights were certainly liberals

Liberals, yes. Are you claiming modern liberals live by the same ideals as Jefferson and Franklin? Do you support armed revolution against an unreasonable, tyrannical authoritarian government?