Obama KILLS my HealthCare -- Leaves me to die...

[Quantum Windbag]

Lying liar is still lying.

Don't worry, we know you don't have a choice about lying now. It isn't as if you could admit being wrong.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"If you like your current health insurance .... You can keep it"...


We let them lie.. We allow them to pass legislation that nobody reads. AND SOME OF US keep re-electing them..

Just picked up notice that the Professional Organization that has been offering me insurance for 25 years is being ended as of Dec 31st..

It is now ILLEGAL to offer group plans if you are NOT an employer.

So now professional organizations catering to their self-employed members will not be ALLOWED to offer coverage. Being self-employed for 25 yrs -- I HAVE no employer. I've just been dumped into the chaos and INTRUSIVE PRYING ARMS of the govt. run exchanges.

Not only that -- but I am uninsurable. Technically a cancer patient tho my form of Leukemia requires no anticipated treatment. AND I have a tremor condition and take statin drugs.. Been refused for underwriting.. Don't CARE to toss into a govt run exchange and then STILL GET SCREWED by the choices of insurers that are in there..

STOP THEM FROM LYING.. HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE.. I doubt if ANY CONGRESS critters knew that this bill would OUTLAW professional group plans..

There is nothing in the law that prevents professional groups from offering group health insurance and the law does not require that insurance companies continue to offer the insurance that you currently have.

In regard to Obama's statement, Jake Tapper asked Obama to explain his statement. In a rather long explanation he said " I'm saying the government is not going to make you change plans under health reform." If an insurance company chooses not to offer a particular plan that does not mean the ACA is responsible.

I do know that the National Association of the Self-Employer is offering group health insurance. Do you care to give any details to support your statements?

PolitiFact | Barack Obama promises you can keep your health insurance, but there's no guarantee

That was funny, first you argue that you can keep your insurance, then you post an article that says you can't.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Talked to a VP of a local bank yesterday.. They started to SELF-INSURE their 1500 employees about 8 years ago.. Gave them a $5000 deductible insurance plan and an average of $4200/yr bonus for medical expenses.. The bank backs up the $5000 deductible with a catastrophic plan on each employee and DIRECTLY PAYS the gap between $5000 and when the catastrophic insurance kicks in.. Insurance companies are nearly CUT OUT OF THE EQUATION ! WORKS BEAUTIFULLY ! Is MSA qualified... ((sounds similiar to what that entreprenuer owner of "Fresh Market" did for his employees))

He told me -- with just MONTHS before the laws come crushing down --- They can't get an accurate reading on whether that plan will be legal going forward.. CERTAINLY the deductible has to come down to meet the stupidass requirements. And it's very unlikely that the bank will offer an alternative plan if high deductible MSAs are OUTLAWED...

So EVEN IF the bank offers employees the $4200 minus the Federal Fine --- THey are NEVER gonna be able to replace this deal.. Everyone of them will HATE the morons who caused this...

The anger out there is about to blow... He was as riled and outraged as I am..

Keep it up SKY.. Happy thoughts.. Ignore the carnage..

There are gonna be 10s of MILLIONS added to the uninsured. Insurance costs are gonna skyrocket. The insurance companies are gonna be the big benefactors.. EVERYTHING IS WORKING -- according to leftist planning..

No, the deductible of $5,000 does not have to come down to meet the requirements of the law. As long as out of pocket cost does not exceed $6,350 for individuals and $12,700 for families. $10,000 or $15,000 deductible plans won't make the cut.

According to the Kaiser Foundation only 10% of employees who get their insurance through their employer have high deductible plans. High deductible in this study is $1,000 or more. In spite of the low premiums, there are relative few people who purchase plans with $10,000 up deductibles.

Low-premium, high-deductible health plans are endangered by Affordable Care Act : Stltoday

Snapshots: The Prevalence and Cost of Deductibles in Employer Sponsored Insurance | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

Keep lying, it makes the people who oppose Obamacare look a lot more intelligent.

Alternative.y, you could go back, reread his OP, and realize that his plan has a $5000 deductible per insident, not per year. Then you can come back and admit that you made a mistake in trying to argue that his plan is still viable under the new rules.

 

[dilloduck]

Flopper,
What Flacal's professional association policyholder is doing is terminating coverage, because they do not choose to make the changes necesssary for them to comply with ACA, including guaranteed issue for late enrollees. He chooses to claim that ACA made it illegal for the association to continue to offer coverage. This is not true, but Flacali is so busy having a pity party that he will not acknowledge that. He also seems to think that any health insurance that is mandated by the goernment is bad and he refuses to particpate in it, so I assume that he will also refuse Medicare when he reaches 65.

In short, I have given up trying to reason with this guy.

So the HONEST statement should have been "you can keep you old insurance plan as long as they completely change the way that they currently do business" .

 

[Vandalshandle]

No, I think the honest statement would be "You can keep your old insurance plan, unless your old insurer decides not to contine to offer coverage to you"...which is, BTW, exactly the way it has always been. As an underwriter, I tended to reject insuring professional associations anyway, since there was not "working at least 30 hours per week" elibibility requirment that is in employer group contracts. This meant that individuals continued to pay their dues and permiums to any age, which made these groups top heavy with old, sick folks, as opposed to employer/emplyee groups, where people usually retired around 65 and were taken off the billing.

 

[daveman]

Lying liar is still lying.

Note for the progressivism-impaired: The definition of "lie" is NOT "anything a progressive disagrees with".

Progressives are terribly simple-minded.

 

[daveman]

EXTRA_EXTRA
Read All about iit!
Man chooses to die rather than take personal responsibility for his own health care or to sign up under provisions of the ACA!!! Whines for pity, but finds none!

So when Obama lied directly to your face saying you could keep your insurance...you're okay with that.

Probably one of those who will receive a subsidy to pay insurance costs the rest of us will be dunned to cover.

He's entitled to it, don'tcha know.

 

[Vandalshandle]

So when Obama lied directly to your face saying you could keep your insurance...you're okay with that.

Probably one of those who will receive a subsidy to pay insurance costs the rest of us will be dunned to cover.

He's entitled to it, don'tcha know.

i know that you will not believe this, but Obama does not have the authority to tell and insurance comapany that they are not allowed to terminate a group insurance policy at the present time.. In my career as an insurance executive, did have that authority, and frequently did just that. Apparantly, the OP's insurance company has done the same thing.

That will not be legal when ACA kicks in.

And Dave, you don't know shit about me, so it only makes you look foolish to assume that you do. I am actually an Eskimo on vacation in Belieze.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Probably one of those who will receive a subsidy to pay insurance costs the rest of us will be dunned to cover.

He's entitled to it, don'tcha know.

i know that you will not believe this, but Obama does not have the authority to tell and insurance comapany that they are not allowed to terminate a group insurance policy at the present time.. In my career as an insurance executive, did have that authority, and frequently did just that. Apparantly, the OP's insurance company has done the same thing.

That will not be legal when ACA kicks in.

And Dave, you don't know shit about me, so it only makes you look foolish to assume that you do. I am actually an Eskimo on vacation in Belieze.

Believe it or not, you are a lying sack of shit.

Obama has the authority to define what type of plans can be sold, ie the minimum coverage requirements. He can also demand that all plans meet various standards set by each state. Trying to sell a group policy under those conditions is going to be next to impossible.

 

[flacaltenn]

No, I think the honest statement would be "You can keep your old insurance plan, unless your old insurer decides not to contine to offer coverage to you"...which is, BTW, exactly the way it has always been. As an underwriter, I tended to reject insuring professional associations anyway, since there was not "working at least 30 hours per week" elibibility requirment that is in employer group contracts. This meant that individuals continued to pay their dues and permiums to any age, which made these groups top heavy with old, sick folks, as opposed to employer/emplyee groups, where people usually retired around 65 and were taken off the billing.

Aren't you a social miracle worker.. Old, sick people UNDER 65? Not working? That's for municipal, state employees only dude..

And what is the meaning of portability if you can't continue that policy to age 65?

Wasn't the insurer that decided to BAN and OUTLAW non-employer national groups.. But of course the folks who wrote the legislation KNEW that no association in their right mind could afford to contract for INDIVIDUAL policies for their national memberships..

It was CALCULATED to remove the choices of forming groups. So that employers and govt would be the only game in town..

 

[flacaltenn]

Talked to a VP of a local bank yesterday.. They started to SELF-INSURE their 1500 employees about 8 years ago.. Gave them a $5000 deductible insurance plan and an average of $4200/yr bonus for medical expenses.. The bank backs up the $5000 deductible with a catastrophic plan on each employee and DIRECTLY PAYS the gap between $5000 and when the catastrophic insurance kicks in.. Insurance companies are nearly CUT OUT OF THE EQUATION ! WORKS BEAUTIFULLY ! Is MSA qualified... ((sounds similiar to what that entreprenuer owner of "Fresh Market" did for his employees))

He told me -- with just MONTHS before the laws come crushing down --- They can't get an accurate reading on whether that plan will be legal going forward.. CERTAINLY the deductible has to come down to meet the stupidass requirements. And it's very unlikely that the bank will offer an alternative plan if high deductible MSAs are OUTLAWED...

So EVEN IF the bank offers employees the $4200 minus the Federal Fine --- THey are NEVER gonna be able to replace this deal.. Everyone of them will HATE the morons who caused this...

The anger out there is about to blow... He was as riled and outraged as I am..

Keep it up SKY.. Happy thoughts.. Ignore the carnage..

There are gonna be 10s of MILLIONS added to the uninsured. Insurance costs are gonna skyrocket. The insurance companies are gonna be the big benefactors.. EVERYTHING IS WORKING -- according to leftist planning..

No, the deductible of $5,000 does not have to come down to meet the requirements of the law. As long as out of pocket cost does not exceed $6,350 for individuals and $12,700 for families. $10,000 or $15,000 deductible plans won't make the cut.

According to the Kaiser Foundation only 10% of employees who get their insurance through their employer have high deductible plans. High deductible in this study is $1,000 or more. In spite of the low premiums, there are relative few people who purchase plans with $10,000 up deductibles.

Low-premium, high-deductible health plans are endangered by Affordable Care Act : Stltoday

Snapshots: The Prevalence and Cost of Deductibles in Employer Sponsored Insurance | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

Only 10% huh? How many people were there that weren't insured? Maybe 15% -- YET YOU think that tearing apart the system and the personal lives of the 85% to fix that was just fine. Yet -- you don't care about 10%..

I'm one of those that NEED a high deductible. Because my doctors and I know -- I'm not as sick and costly as the insurance companies THINK I am... That means that insurance for me is very bad wager...

And I think you're wrong about the $5000 deductible. Pretty sure it's limited to $2000 out of pocket...

 

[dilloduck]

I don't think Obama had then or has now a clue about what all is in the bill. He thought that telling everyone that if they liked what they had that they could keep it would shut everyone up for the time being. He's an asshole like that. He leaves the explaining to his apologists.

 

[auditor0007]

I really need to pummel someone today.. I need a leftist Obama Suck-Up revolutionary to smack around right now.. You want to see GENIUNE anger that not's gonna die???

Tell me how great this is...

thing was.... they never said it was going to be great.

what they promised was it was going to be great for anyone who did not have health care.

I doubt that healthy 25 year olds who don't have health insurance now will think it's great when they have to start paying a couple grand a year for ObamaCare.

I think we should allow anyone who wants to opt out. Just change the laws that force hospitals to treat people without the ability to pay. That way, if this 25 year old decides to opt out and does not carry proof of the ability to pay, if they fall off a roof or if they are severely injured and end up in the emergency room, the hospital can refuse them. In fact, the ambulance wouldn't even have to take them to the hospital. They could just let them die right there and then call the morgue.

We now have a system that gives everyone the opportunity to have insurance, so if people want to choose to opt out, I say let them. Just stop forcing hospitals to treat these people who can't pay.

 

[dblack]

thing was.... they never said it was going to be great.

what they promised was it was going to be great for anyone who did not have health care.

I doubt that healthy 25 year olds who don't have health insurance now will think it's great when they have to start paying a couple grand a year for ObamaCare.

I think we should allow anyone who wants to opt out. Just change the laws that force hospitals to treat people without the ability to pay. That way, if this 25 year old decides to opt out and does not carry proof of the ability to pay, if they fall off a roof or if they are severely injured and end up in the emergency room, the hospital can refuse them. In fact, the ambulance wouldn't even have to take them to the hospital. They could just let them die right there and then call the morgue.

We now have a system that gives everyone the opportunity to have insurance, so if people want to choose to opt out, I say let them. Just stop forcing hospitals to treat these people who can't pay.

Exactly. But they won't do that, will they? You ever wonder why?

 

[daveman]

Probably one of those who will receive a subsidy to pay insurance costs the rest of us will be dunned to cover.

He's entitled to it, don'tcha know.

i know that you will not believe this, but Obama does not have the authority to tell and insurance comapany that they are not allowed to terminate a group insurance policy at the present time.. In my career as an insurance executive, did have that authority, and frequently did just that. Apparantly, the OP's insurance company has done the same thing.

That will not be legal when ACA kicks in.

Obama doesn't have the authority to do a lot of things he's done -- like push back the employer mandate. He can't do that. The law is the law, and there's a firm implementation date. Obama can't change that.

But his bootlickers and sycophants let him get away with it. If you're feeling your toes stepped on, there's a reason.

And Dave, you don't know shit about me, so it only makes you look foolish to assume that you do. I am actually an Eskimo on vacation in Belieze.

Did you know anyone can say anything on the internet?

 

[dblack]

I think we should allow anyone who wants to opt out. Just change the laws that force hospitals to treat people without the ability to pay. That way, if this 25 year old decides to opt out and does not carry proof of the ability to pay, if they fall off a roof or if they are severely injured and end up in the emergency room, the hospital can refuse them. In fact, the ambulance wouldn't even have to take them to the hospital. They could just let them die right there and then call the morgue.

We now have a system that gives everyone the opportunity to have insurance, so if people want to choose to opt out, I say let them. Just stop forcing hospitals to treat these people who can't pay.

Exactly. But they won't do that, will they? You ever wonder why?

Here's a hint: The problems you're discussing are irrelevant to the goals and purpose of health care reform. What is relevant is control. PPACA is a power grab. As many advocates will be happy to admit, it's a "foot in the door" toward establishing government control of our health care. You can't control people if you let them 'opt out' of your control scheme.

 

[Vandalshandle]

No, I think the honest statement would be "You can keep your old insurance plan, unless your old insurer decides not to contine to offer coverage to you"...which is, BTW, exactly the way it has always been. As an underwriter, I tended to reject insuring professional associations anyway, since there was not "working at least 30 hours per week" elibibility requirment that is in employer group contracts. This meant that individuals continued to pay their dues and permiums to any age, which made these groups top heavy with old, sick folks, as opposed to employer/emplyee groups, where people usually retired around 65 and were taken off the billing.

Aren't you a social miracle worker.. Old, sick people UNDER 65? Not working? That's for municipal, state employees only dude..

And what is the meaning of portability if you can't continue that policy to age 65?

Wasn't the insurer that decided to BAN and OUTLAW non-employer national groups.. But of course the folks who wrote the legislation KNEW that no association in their right mind could afford to contract for INDIVIDUAL policies for their national memberships..

It was CALCULATED to remove the choices of forming groups. So that employers and govt would be the only game in town..

Tenn, You are so far off base that you are no even in the ball park.

Associations have no"'actively at work" requirment in thier insurance contracts. therefore, individuals remain insured under the policy until they die, whereas with employer groups, they eventually become too sick to work, and are taken off the billing. That is why association groups are not desirable risks. Insurers milk them in their early years, but as the adverse selection gets worse over time, they look for a reason to dump them. That is what happened to you.

There is no such thing, and never has been "portability' between group and individual contracts.

You seem to feel that the association "can not afford" to issue individual contracts. Tenn, the association issues NO contracts. they are issued by insurance companies, not associations, and have been issued by insurance companies for almost 100 years, and will contine to be be issued by insurance comapanies under ACA. The insurance company that underwrites your association group contract has chosen to get out of association group insurance. Well, hoop-de-do! I have worked for no less than 14 insuarance companies in the last 50 years who have ALSO chosen to get out of association group contracts. In fact, 12 of them have gotten out of group health insurance all together, leaving their former customers with nothing. Under ACA, for the first time, these people will have the option to buy coverage elsewhere, regardless of their health.

Geeze, Tenn, do you wake up in the morning sorry to discover that you have lived another day? For the very first ime in your life, you are being given the opportunity to buy a policy which can not be canceled by the insurance company for any reason other than your failure to pay the premium, regardless of your health, and this pisses you off.

 

[Vandalshandle]

"Did you know anyone can say anything on the internet? "

Yes, Dave. I am well aware of the fact that anyone can make a fool out of themselves on an annoymous message board...and you certainly do not seem to be the kind of guy who is going to fail to take advantage of that.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I really need to pummel someone today.. I need a leftist Obama Suck-Up revolutionary to smack around right now.. You want to see GENIUNE anger that not's gonna die???

Tell me how great this is...

thing was.... they never said it was going to be great.

what they promised was it was going to be great for anyone who did not have health care.

I doubt that healthy 25 year olds who don't have health insurance now will think it's great when they have to start paying a couple grand a year for ObamaCare.

Of course now they can remain under their parents policy until age 26. By then they will need to understand life is not free and they must take personal responsibility for themselves. Not buying said insurance from an exchange puts their parents in bind, let their kid be treated on the taxpayers dime (at a County/public Hospital) and have an enormous bill or buy a policy for their kid.

I guess Republicans and Callous Conservatives believe only the poor should be personally responsible.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I guess Republicans and Callous Conservatives believe only the poor should be personally responsible.

Yeah, that's why they're against paying for their own health care insurance and prefer instead the free socialist EMTALA.