Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

[Scorpion]

I like knowing my tax dollars are doing double duty for the academically inclined students. I get more bang for my tax buck,

Also, if I'm not mistaken, any student who takes advantage of this program can maintain no lower than a B average. The expectations for the high school students are higher than the general community college population.

And my daughter seems to feel the courses she is taking at the community college are easier than the honors classes she took ever since she qualified for those classes. So, there could be some merit to it being thought of as an extension of high school.

 

[Political Junky]

It's a great start. Europe gives free complete college education and medical care. They're ahead of us.

 

[Unkotare]

It's a great start. Europe gives free complete college education and medical care. They're ahead of us.

No they don't, and no they're not.

 

[Pogo]

Naysayer orgy.

 

[Conservative65]

SOOOO predictable. It will work this time is what you base your support on.

And in the very next post you proved me right.
I called it at the beginning of this thread, post 16, and you keep affirming it. Over and over.
Thanks for that but it really wasn't a wish.

You calling something and it being true aren't the same thing. It doesn't take a genius to know when things won't work.

Obviously not.



All it takes is a naysayer.

Sorry but I have nothing but contempt for intellectual sloth. Which is exactly what sitting on one's ass going "will never work.. will never work ... will never work" is. As already noted running around shrieking "oh goodness we can't do that, we've always done it this way!" has in history produced the sum total of absolute zero. You don't grow by doing things the same way you've always done them before.

You contribute nothing here except to reinforce your own echo. Somebody wake me when something pertinent is posted.
Something with more meat on its bones than "will never work".

I have nothing but contempt for people like you that demand someone else fund what you think needs to be done. If you think it's such a good idea, fund as many as you want personally and get as many like you to do the same. It's one thing to say you think it should be done, it's another to prove it with your own money.

Who the fuck do you think pays for your fire department, your library, your parks and museums and the roads you use to get to work?

Straw man argument.

 

[Conservative65]

Soooo predictable...

will never work
will never work
will never work
will never work

SOOOO predictable. It will work this time is what you base your support on.

And in the very next post you proved me right.
I called it at the beginning of this thread, post 16, and you keep affirming it. Over and over.
Thanks for that but it really wasn't a wish.

You calling something and it being true aren't the same thing. It doesn't take a genius to know when things won't work.

Obviously not.



All it takes is a naysayer.

Sorry but I have nothing but contempt for intellectual sloth. Which is exactly what sitting on one's ass going "will never work.. will never work ... will never work" is. As already noted running around shrieking "oh goodness we can't do that, we've always done it this way!" has in history produced the sum total of absolute zero. You don't grow by doing things the same way you've always done them before.

You contribute nothing here except to reinforce your own echo. Somebody wake me when something pertinent is posted.
Something with more meat on its bones than "will never work".

Yep. The same argument over and over. I just wish these guys would be honest and say what they really mean, I don't want my money spent on anyone but me; it's all about me.

When it comes to paying for college, it is about ME and MY children. I'M the one that has saved the money for MY children. That money should go to MY children not someone else's child.

You seem to forget that I'm not asking any of them to do anything other than what I'm willing to do myself. Those expecting the the government to do this for their kids aren't thinking about anyone but themselves unless you're willing to tell me they give a damn where the money comes from as long as they get it.

 

[Conservative65]

Now that is actually American!

"It is better for the poorer classes to have the aid of the richer by a general tax on property, than that every parent should provide at his own expence for the education of his children, it is certain that every Class is interested in establishments which give to the human mind its highest improvements, and to every Country its truest and most durable celebrity."
-- James Madison; from letter to W.T. Barry (Aug. 4, 1822)

I can't imagine what sort of fascists could disagree...

The fascists would be those that support the government forcing everyone to pay for someone's college.

So the Father of our Constitution is a fascist now? That's fucking amazing

He damn sure wasn't talking about funding college. Madison's proposal sounds a lot like what we have now with grades 1 - 12.

Sorry. I should have included the context:

"No error is more certain than the one proceeding from a hasty & superficial view of the subject: that the people at large have no interest in the establishment of Academies, Colleges, and Universities, where a few only, and those not of the poorer classes can obtain for their sons the advantages of superior education. It is thought to be unjust that all should be taxed for the benefit of a part, and that too the part least needing it. If provision were not made at the same time for every part, the objection would be a natural one. But, besides the consideration when the higher Seminaries belong to a plan of general education, that it is better for the poorer classes to have the aid of the richer by a general tax on property, than that every parent should provide at his own expence for the education of his children"

So now that the necessary provision is made for "every part" where then could the objection come?

Pay for your own college or your own kid's college boy. It's not my job to be your child's daddy.

 

[Conservative65]

Look at it this way: a society handing out free stuff that benefits nobody but the recipient is just handing out free stuff. A society investing in educating its own is investing in itself.

Yanno, I figured if I lived long enough you and I would agree on something. Now we need to make the hard decisions on what freebies to end so that we can instead invest those dollars in education.

If Congress and the President would work together, it wouldn't be hard at all. The goals of the two parties are to support an ideology and destroy the opposition. Anything good that comes out that will simply be coincidental.

I'm a bottom line sort of guy. If our fearless leaders manage to stumble upon some civic good, I'm for it.

So am I. The taxes that those of us funding college for someone else's kid is money we can't use for our own. The bottom line is that with more taxes, less goes to my kids. That's the only bottom line I'm concerned with.

That depends on whether your kids are going to college. You can complete your first two years of college at a community college then transfer to a 4 year school. That would cut the cost considerably for most parents. However, my guess is congress would limit the programs to students not seeking a 4 year degree to cut cost, if they even considered the program at all.

My child is actually going to a real college not some extension of high school.
It's not the taxpayers job to cut cost for someone else's kids when it comes to college.

 

[Pogo]

And in the very next post you proved me right.
I called it at the beginning of this thread, post 16, and you keep affirming it. Over and over.
Thanks for that but it really wasn't a wish.

You calling something and it being true aren't the same thing. It doesn't take a genius to know when things won't work.

Obviously not.



All it takes is a naysayer.

Sorry but I have nothing but contempt for intellectual sloth. Which is exactly what sitting on one's ass going "will never work.. will never work ... will never work" is. As already noted running around shrieking "oh goodness we can't do that, we've always done it this way!" has in history produced the sum total of absolute zero. You don't grow by doing things the same way you've always done them before.

You contribute nothing here except to reinforce your own echo. Somebody wake me when something pertinent is posted.
Something with more meat on its bones than "will never work".

I have nothing but contempt for people like you that demand someone else fund what you think needs to be done. If you think it's such a good idea, fund as many as you want personally and get as many like you to do the same. It's one thing to say you think it should be done, it's another to prove it with your own money.

Who the fuck do you think pays for your fire department, your library, your parks and museums and the roads you use to get to work?

Straw man argument.

So you don't know what "strawman" means either?

A question cannot be a strawman. Strawman requires a statement.

 

[Pogo]

SOOOO predictable. It will work this time is what you base your support on.

And in the very next post you proved me right.
I called it at the beginning of this thread, post 16, and you keep affirming it. Over and over.
Thanks for that but it really wasn't a wish.

You calling something and it being true aren't the same thing. It doesn't take a genius to know when things won't work.

Obviously not.



All it takes is a naysayer.

Sorry but I have nothing but contempt for intellectual sloth. Which is exactly what sitting on one's ass going "will never work.. will never work ... will never work" is. As already noted running around shrieking "oh goodness we can't do that, we've always done it this way!" has in history produced the sum total of absolute zero. You don't grow by doing things the same way you've always done them before.

You contribute nothing here except to reinforce your own echo. Somebody wake me when something pertinent is posted.
Something with more meat on its bones than "will never work".

Yep. The same argument over and over. I just wish these guys would be honest and say what they really mean, I don't want my money spent on anyone but me; it's all about me.

When it comes to paying for college, it is about ME and MY children. I'M the one that has saved the money for MY children. That money should go to MY children not someone else's child.

You seem to forget that I'm not asking any of them to do anything other than what I'm willing to do myself. Those expecting the the government to do this for their kids aren't thinking about anyone but themselves unless you're willing to tell me they give a damn where the money comes from as long as they get it.

You just confirmed our point. "I got mine, fuck the resta yez".

 

[Pogo]

Yanno, I figured if I lived long enough you and I would agree on something. Now we need to make the hard decisions on what freebies to end so that we can instead invest those dollars in education.

If Congress and the President would work together, it wouldn't be hard at all. The goals of the two parties are to support an ideology and destroy the opposition. Anything good that comes out that will simply be coincidental.

I'm a bottom line sort of guy. If our fearless leaders manage to stumble upon some civic good, I'm for it.

So am I. The taxes that those of us funding college for someone else's kid is money we can't use for our own. The bottom line is that with more taxes, less goes to my kids. That's the only bottom line I'm concerned with.

That depends on whether your kids are going to college. You can complete your first two years of college at a community college then transfer to a 4 year school. That would cut the cost considerably for most parents. However, my guess is congress would limit the programs to students not seeking a 4 year degree to cut cost, if they even considered the program at all.

My child is actually going to a real college not some extension of high school.
It's not the taxpayers job to cut cost for someone else's kids when it comes to college.

Apparently then you're ready to foot the bill for your own fire department, police, libraries, museums, parks, public roads, military, FAA, FDA, FCC...
Say, you must be rich.

 

[hipeter924]

Obama President Proposes 2 Free Years of Community College

President Barack Obama announced a proposal Thursday to provide two years of free community-college tuition to American students who maintain good grades.

He also said that this plan will save at least 3.800$ per year, it means that student should continue working, because this plan will not give them: food, clothing and house! What for this circus? I don't know!

So he will give extra funding to the golden apples, who would pass and get a job anyway. While the rest that community colleges are meant to be there for have to pack their bags, as the government attempts to make them as elitist as Harvard.

What this means is that community colleges will accept only students that get the government hand out for 'good grades' or those that can pay upfront.

Once again 'good intentions' of government is destroying American education, just like common core. Thanks Obama, for keeping the poor and struggling students out of education.

Community colleges generally have no academic requirements for admission other than graduation from high school and in some states even that is not required.

Yep, but incentivizing a school or university towards a particular group of well performing students rather than increasing funding for poorly performing students at the same time - will give them even less of an excuse to bother about the 'bad eggs' and just let them fail. And when they fail, taxpayers have to suffer the bill - as well as the social costs that come with having more people debt ridden and unemployed.

Does giving a student who simply cannot and will not perform well in school a diploma he/she did not earn actually help that student OR society?

That isn't what I am saying at all. Why hand out free degrees to the upper echeloen that don't need it, whilst ignoring the funding shortfalls in the rest of the education system. I had to pay for my education, did you?

Money would be better used on people that truly can't afford to pay, taking care of those with disabilities (in education), or in better resourcing the community colleges - not giving out free degrees to A students.

 

[Conservative65]

You calling something and it being true aren't the same thing. It doesn't take a genius to know when things won't work.

Obviously not.



All it takes is a naysayer.

Sorry but I have nothing but contempt for intellectual sloth. Which is exactly what sitting on one's ass going "will never work.. will never work ... will never work" is. As already noted running around shrieking "oh goodness we can't do that, we've always done it this way!" has in history produced the sum total of absolute zero. You don't grow by doing things the same way you've always done them before.

You contribute nothing here except to reinforce your own echo. Somebody wake me when something pertinent is posted.
Something with more meat on its bones than "will never work".

I have nothing but contempt for people like you that demand someone else fund what you think needs to be done. If you think it's such a good idea, fund as many as you want personally and get as many like you to do the same. It's one thing to say you think it should be done, it's another to prove it with your own money.

Who the fuck do you think pays for your fire department, your library, your parks and museums and the roads you use to get to work?

Straw man argument.

So you don't know what "strawman" means either?

A question cannot be a strawman. Strawman requires a statement.

Putting a ? behind it doesnt' mean it's a question. You can make a statment appear as one.

 

[Conservative65]

If Congress and the President would work together, it wouldn't be hard at all. The goals of the two parties are to support an ideology and destroy the opposition. Anything good that comes out that will simply be coincidental.

I'm a bottom line sort of guy. If our fearless leaders manage to stumble upon some civic good, I'm for it.

So am I. The taxes that those of us funding college for someone else's kid is money we can't use for our own. The bottom line is that with more taxes, less goes to my kids. That's the only bottom line I'm concerned with.

That depends on whether your kids are going to college. You can complete your first two years of college at a community college then transfer to a 4 year school. That would cut the cost considerably for most parents. However, my guess is congress would limit the programs to students not seeking a 4 year degree to cut cost, if they even considered the program at all.

My child is actually going to a real college not some extension of high school.
It's not the taxpayers job to cut cost for someone else's kids when it comes to college.

Apparently then you're ready to foot the bill for your own fire department, police, libraries, museums, parks, public roads, military, FAA, FDA, FCC...
Say, you must be rich.

When it comes to fire departments, police, local libraries, local museums, local parks, and things on that level, taxes to fund them are instituted by State and local governments under their authority granted by the 10th Amendment. Don't think taxes done by state/local governments is the same as taxes that would fund something on a level where the federal government does it in an area for which NO authority is granted.

That means I'll pay the taxes my State put in place and fight against those with which I disagree and you fund college for someone else's kid with your money since the level of government you think should do it has no authority to do so.

 

[Conservative65]

And in the very next post you proved me right.
I called it at the beginning of this thread, post 16, and you keep affirming it. Over and over.
Thanks for that but it really wasn't a wish.

You calling something and it being true aren't the same thing. It doesn't take a genius to know when things won't work.

Obviously not.



All it takes is a naysayer.

Sorry but I have nothing but contempt for intellectual sloth. Which is exactly what sitting on one's ass going "will never work.. will never work ... will never work" is. As already noted running around shrieking "oh goodness we can't do that, we've always done it this way!" has in history produced the sum total of absolute zero. You don't grow by doing things the same way you've always done them before.

You contribute nothing here except to reinforce your own echo. Somebody wake me when something pertinent is posted.
Something with more meat on its bones than "will never work".

Yep. The same argument over and over. I just wish these guys would be honest and say what they really mean, I don't want my money spent on anyone but me; it's all about me.

When it comes to paying for college, it is about ME and MY children. I'M the one that has saved the money for MY children. That money should go to MY children not someone else's child.

You seem to forget that I'm not asking any of them to do anything other than what I'm willing to do myself. Those expecting the the government to do this for their kids aren't thinking about anyone but themselves unless you're willing to tell me they give a damn where the money comes from as long as they get it.

You just confirmed our point. "I got mine, fuck the resta yez".

The point I've confirmed is that I while I got mine, I don't expect anything more of others than I do myself. When I'm meeting my responsibility as a parent and I see others demanding I meet it for their kids because they won't, you have part of it right. It isn't I got mine, it's fuck the rest of you that want me to do for you what you won't do for your own kids.

You have a problem with me wanting to use MY money for MY kids yet you don't have one demanding I be forced to do what another parent isn't for their own kids. I don't owe them a college education.

 

[Conservative65]

And in the very next post you proved me right.
I called it at the beginning of this thread, post 16, and you keep affirming it. Over and over.
Thanks for that but it really wasn't a wish.

You calling something and it being true aren't the same thing. It doesn't take a genius to know when things won't work.

Obviously not.



All it takes is a naysayer.

Sorry but I have nothing but contempt for intellectual sloth. Which is exactly what sitting on one's ass going "will never work.. will never work ... will never work" is. As already noted running around shrieking "oh goodness we can't do that, we've always done it this way!" has in history produced the sum total of absolute zero. You don't grow by doing things the same way you've always done them before.

You contribute nothing here except to reinforce your own echo. Somebody wake me when something pertinent is posted.
Something with more meat on its bones than "will never work".

Yep. The same argument over and over. I just wish these guys would be honest and say what they really mean, I don't want my money spent on anyone but me; it's all about me.

When it comes to paying for college, it is about ME and MY children. I'M the one that has saved the money for MY children. That money should go to MY children not someone else's child.

You seem to forget that I'm not asking any of them to do anything other than what I'm willing to do myself. Those expecting the the government to do this for their kids aren't thinking about anyone but themselves unless you're willing to tell me they give a damn where the money comes from as long as they get it.

You just confirmed our point. "I got mine, fuck the resta yez".

What you've confirmed is that you believe on person should be more responsible for someone else's kids than you are willing to hold the ones that had them.

Let me explain a simple concept to you. MY kids come first. If others would do the same, the idea of forcing the rest of us to do for them what their own parents won't do is non-existent.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

One of the most important things our country needs to do is bring our National Debt under control, and this is a step in the wrong direction.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

You will note I specify the funding must be redirected from EXISTING gov't giveaways, meaning some already sucking at the gov't tit will get less.

That is not going to happen, and I do not know if something like that has ever happened. Other programs may be reduced but it won't be in connection with this proposal.

 

[hadit]

Obama President Proposes 2 Free Years of Community College

President Barack Obama announced a proposal Thursday to provide two years of free community-college tuition to American students who maintain good grades.

He also said that this plan will save at least 3.800$ per year, it means that student should continue working, because this plan will not give them: food, clothing and house! What for this circus? I don't know!

So he will give extra funding to the golden apples, who would pass and get a job anyway. While the rest that community colleges are meant to be there for have to pack their bags, as the government attempts to make them as elitist as Harvard.

What this means is that community colleges will accept only students that get the government hand out for 'good grades' or those that can pay upfront.

Once again 'good intentions' of government is destroying American education, just like common core. Thanks Obama, for keeping the poor and struggling students out of education.

Community colleges generally have no academic requirements for admission other than graduation from high school and in some states even that is not required.

Yep, but incentivizing a school or university towards a particular group of well performing students rather than increasing funding for poorly performing students at the same time - will give them even less of an excuse to bother about the 'bad eggs' and just let them fail. And when they fail, taxpayers have to suffer the bill - as well as the social costs that come with having more people debt ridden and unemployed.

Does giving a student who simply cannot and will not perform well in school a diploma he/she did not earn actually help that student OR society?

That isn't what I am saying at all. Why hand out free degrees to the upper echeloen that don't need it, whilst ignoring the funding shortfalls in the rest of the education system. I had to pay for my education, did you?

Money would be better used on people that truly can't afford to pay, taking care of those with disabilities (in education), or in better resourcing the community colleges - not giving out free degrees to A students.

Community colleges are actually fairly well resourced already, and what you're advocating is means tested aid, which we basically already have.

 

[hipeter924]

One of the most important things our country needs to do is bring our National Debt under control, and this is a step in the wrong direction.

But the system is dog eats dog. The national debt will never get under control, as every time there is a recession the government policy is to bail out banks and automakers - then lower taxes on the rich and raise them for the middle class.