Obama remarks on Iraq prompt flip-flop charge

[jillian]

Okay, I'll oh so very carefully avoid using the f-f word.

But, how about a sampling of some of the history re Obama's stances on Iraq?

You know, anyone who supports McCain has chutzpah talking about Obama modifying his stances. Smart people actually adjust their views on what should be done about things depending on changes in circumstances. For example strategy in Iraq could easily change depending on what's happening. (I believe June, 2008 had the most casualties, btw).... unlike baby bush.

What they DON'T change their minds about is stuff like the religious right being "agents of intolerance" .... you know, like McCain.

I figure flip flop just comes from the anti-kerry thing four years ago. Y'all remember that, right?

 

[Anti-PC]

Well Greenparty, I agree with you you on the first part of your post. Which is why it is completely moronic and dangerous to go ahead and declare (before you ever visit with the commanders in Iraq mind you) that you will be withdrawing the troops in whatever amount of time! He doesn't have a clue what is possible and what isn't at this point, not to mention what changes may happen on the ground in the near future. So again, to say that he will have the troops out in 16 months in whatever amount per month is simply a lie and pandering to the far left.

 

[Charles_Main]

This was an inevitable change on Obama's part. His previous Time line for withdraw was simply not possible to pull off while keeping our troops safe. He chatted with his military advisers and they told him it was not possible, and thank god he has the brains to accept that.

 

[greenpartyaz]

Well Greenparty, I agree with you you on the first part of your post. Which is why it is completely moronic and dangerous to go ahead and declare (before you ever visit with the commanders in Iraq mind you) that you will be withdrawing the troops in whatever amount of time! He doesn't have a clue what is possible and what isn't at this point, not to mention what changes may happen on the ground in the near future. So again, to say that he will have the troops out in 16 months in whatever amount per month is simply a lie and pandering to the far left.

You will find that a majority of people support withdrawing troops from Iraq, it is not just the "Far Left" that supports this. This is a desperate attempt to place a label on Obama as soft on military. They know that most Americans don't support this war. And they know that John McCain is in real trouble over his flip-flops. I may be calling this coin toss in the air, but I think Obama is being unfairly labeled in this instance.

 

[Anti-PC]

I'm sorry to write a post that has nothing to do with this particular thread, but as I said earlier, I'm fairly new here and I was just wondering what the deal is with the whole rep power thing?

 

[Charles_Main]

You will find that a majority of people support withdrawing troops from Iraq, it is not just the "Far Left" that supports this. This is a desperate attempt to place a label on Obama as soft on military. They know that most Americans don't support this war. And they know that John McCain is in real trouble over his flip-flops. I may be calling this coin toss in the air, but I think Obama is being unfairly labeled in this instance.

I personally do not fault Obama for this change. He talked to the experts and accepted what they told him. It actually makes me feel a little better about Obama.

I think the Term Flip Flop is used to often. There is nothing wrong with changing your mind, if it is based on reality and facts, and not simple done for political Gain. In this Case Obama stands to lose from this change not gain. He made the change not for political Reasons but for practical ones. That is fine by me.

The same can be said about some of McCains so called flip flops.

 

[Gunny]

I’m confused by your comment. Are you saying that Sean Hannity never uses the phrase “flip flop” or that someone makes him say “flip flop”? It is my understanding that each individual is responsible for his own statements. Anyway, as I expected, the dirt is starting to fly from both camps. McCain and Obama better get ready to take a bath to get all of the mud off of their bodies come early November.

Matts, DO try and grasp a little satirical humor. Of course Hannity uses the phrase and of course he is just as accountable for using it as anyone else. I'm fairly certain my ravaging of Hannity and Colmes equally is rather nonpartisan.

Sometimes you can be such a damp rag.

 

[Gunny]

This is confusing, because isn't McCain the flip-flop candidate this year? Anyways, if Obama gets soft on ending the war, then he might lose my vote along with A LOT of support from young people. I don't think I can make myself vote for a candidate who would continue to send my friends into bush's failed war of terror.

Both candidates have redefined their stances based on political expediency and/or pandering. I'm not sure that one can be accused of doing it anymore than the other.

They're so transparent; yet, you partisan types just play right along with their game. They don't even have to try and be sneaky about it anymore.

 

[mattskramer]

Matts, DO try and grasp a little satirical humor. Of course Hannity uses the phrase and of course he is just as accountable for using it as anyone else. I'm fairly certain my ravaging of Hannity and Colmes equally is rather nonpartisan.

Sometimes you can be such a damp rag.

Sorry. Sometimes I can be so darn a formal literalist. I’ll try harder.

 

[CharlestonChad]

Both candidates have redefined their stances based on political expediency and/or pandering. I'm not sure that one can be accused of doing it anymore than the other.

They're so transparent; yet, you partisan types just play right along with their game. They don't even have to try and be sneaky about it anymore.

Didn't I just say I wouldn't vote for Obama if he wouldn't promise to withdraw troops by the end of his term? I don't see how that's partisanship. I have a very strong opinion on the war. I found Obama before he got popular in the media, because he was one of the few who actually "got it" with the war of terror in iraq. It wasn't until I went to see him speak, that I knew he would get us out of Iraq. I made a character judgment, and decided Obama is the man. Maybe he tricked me. Maybe I'm foolish. But I'm going with my instincts and supporting the ONLY politician that makes me feel even better to be an American.

 

[editec]

From the outset Obama said that he would begin writhdrawing troops.

He ALSO said that his withdraw would be in good military order according to the dicatates of the Generals on the ground.

He did not say that there was a specifc time to the withdraw but mentioned that he expected it might take 16 months.

A pefectly consistent and quite reasonable approach to this issue.

And FWIW, McCaibn has ALSO been consistent and perfectly reasonable plan given that he has differnet agenda.

It's not my agenda, but if it were, I'm be making noises like McCain has, too.

There are enough REAL issues to debate without having to rewrite the debates to suit some partisan bullshit agenda, ya know.

It's lazy and dishonest to mischaracterize your opponents positions, just because it's easier to debate what they have not said than what they have said.

Some of us ought to try to show some fucking class for a change.

 

[Foxfyre]

Based on the articles and references posted today:

 

[Article 15]

....except Sean Hannity.

Good Lord that guy is a tool!

His boy McCain is the fl ... erm I mean candidate with the position changing problem this season.

 

[Article 15]

Good Lord that guy is a tool!

His boy McCain is the fl ... erm I mean candidate with the position changing problem this season.

That being said Obama is also "weakening" his positions on a lot of issues as he gradually moves to the center. This of course is going to piss off the wing nuts on the left.

 

[Dirt McGirt]

What's great about these political messageboards is that everyone complaining about Obama will still be posting after he gets elected.

 

[Article 15]

What's great about these political messageboards is that everyone complaining about Obama will still be posting after he gets elected.

Yep.

And a whole lot of folks will renege on their pledges to leave the country if their candidate loses.

 

[jreeves]

Barack Obama is labeled a flip-flopper because he thinks that adjustments in Iraq policy are necessary. He will re-evaluate the situation and make the necessary adjustments necessary, after he returns from the trip. This sounds like sound policy to me. Evaluating the situation, and making adjustments to ensure the proper outcome, from what you have learned. This is the same stupid, hard-headed military and administration leadership, policy makers that have royally fucked up this war from the beginning. And now we should listen to them on sound Iraq policy? Obama has not changed his policy of the 16 month draw-down of American troops. The Manchurian Candidate "McCain" is the ultimate flip-flopper: YouTube - McCain's YouTube Problem Just Became a Nightmare

May 13th 2007
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O92kf_zKlC4]YouTube - Obama Supports Funding For Troops' Equipment[/ame]


May 24th 2007
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18862112/
Courting the anti-war constituency, Democratic presidential rivals Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama both voted against legislation that pays for the Iraq war but lacks a timeline for troop withdrawal.

 

[Gunny]

What's great about these political messageboards is that everyone complaining about Obama will still be posting after he gets elected.

You think? Last presidential election the dejected disappeared for months and not all returned. It'll happen again, regardless the outcome.

 

[Gunny]

Yep.

And a whole lot of folks will renege on their pledges to leave the country if their candidate loses.

Who has pledged to leave the country? The only ones I can recall having done that are STILL here, but were supposed to leave after LAST election.

I haven't seen nor heard anyone threaten to leave if Obama is elected.

 

[Article 15]

Who has pledged to leave the country? The only ones I can recall having done that are STILL here, but were supposed to leave after LAST election.

I haven't seen nor heard anyone threaten to leave if Obama is elected.

It's still early ...

But you are right I was taking a cue from the last election, in particular.

And you're right I haven't seen McCain supporters say these things ... yet. I did pull that one out of my ass.

If/when these types of statements do start flying around the Interwebs I'd be willing to bet they'll be coming from Obama supporters and not McCain's because folks just don't seem too excited about McCain.