Obama the Omnipotent waves his magic fairy wand...

[JoeB131]

[

Your opinion of those insurance plans is irrelevant. The people who were paying for those plans did so because it was the plan that wanted and/or could afford.

And that's the problem.

The insurance companies were taking their money and not providing anything in return but wishful thinking.

Now, a lot of these folks, ignorance is bliss. They didn't get sick and didn't realize how bad it was.

A few did get sick and found out that Acne is a pre-existing condition for cancer. What a surprise.

You know what, when I buy a car, I have to rely on the fact that it is safe. I can't do a detailed engineering analysis and prove it is.

I have to rely on the fact that a government agency has tested that car...

 

[Sunshine]

[

Your opinion of those insurance plans is irrelevant. The people who were paying for those plans did so because it was the plan that wanted and/or could afford.

And that's the problem.

The insurance companies were taking their money and not providing anything in return but wishful thinking.

Now, a lot of these folks, ignorance is bliss. They didn't get sick and didn't realize how bad it was.

A few did get sick and found out that Acne is a pre-existing condition for cancer. What a surprise.

You know what, when I buy a car, I have to rely on the fact that it is safe. I can't do a detailed engineering analysis and prove it is.

I have to rely on the fact that a government agency has tested that car...

You don't know that. Why would a woman 65 years of age with a hysterectomy need obstetric coverage? Her plan not having that coverage doesn't make it inferior. It just makes the policy more affordable.

And government agencies only test prototypes of the car. It doesn't test YOUR car.

God, you are stupid.

 

[tyroneweaver]

I imagine the pres can wave a pretty big wand cause he's a pretty big fairy

 

[Wacky Quacky]

[

Your opinion of those insurance plans is irrelevant. The people who were paying for those plans did so because it was the plan that wanted and/or could afford.

And that's the problem.

The insurance companies were taking their money and not providing anything in return but wishful thinking.

Now, a lot of these folks, ignorance is bliss. They didn't get sick and didn't realize how bad it was.

A few did get sick and found out that Acne is a pre-existing condition for cancer. What a surprise.

You know what, when I buy a car, I have to rely on the fact that it is safe. I can't do a detailed engineering analysis and prove it is.

I have to rely on the fact that a government agency has tested that car...

Show me a report detailing how and why those plans were bad. Not your opinion, not the president's opinion, but a report or a study.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

[

You ignoramus. A FOR PROFIT corporation does not exist to be charitable. A FOR PROFIT corporation exists to increase the wealth of the owner and shareholders. Being charitable is not part of the equation.

Companies that don't have to offer insurance and don't offer insurance are cheating no one. Their profit margin will increase. If their employees get pissed off and leave, they will hire new ones who want a job, more of them than before, because it will take more to fill the larger number of slots needed to get the work done with reduced hours. McDonald's doesn't seem to have a staffing problem.

People who lose their health insurance because of the ACA means more Republican voters. See how it works out?

Boy you guys are really pretty dumb, aren't you.

Actually, only 4% under shitty plans are losing their shitty plans. 80% are keeping their plans and 16% can actually get plans now.

If you aren't offering health insurance, you are really, really getting the bottom of the barrel employees, and cutting their hours to 30 a week so you don't have to offer them insurance when the Employer Mandate kicks in is not going to make them better employees.

And seriously, have you BEEN to a McDonald's lately?

My plan doesn't cover everything but then I don't need everything covered and its not a (insert dem talking point word of the day here ie shitty, crappy, bad) plan.

 

[Sunshine]

[

You ignoramus. A FOR PROFIT corporation does not exist to be charitable. A FOR PROFIT corporation exists to increase the wealth of the owner and shareholders. Being charitable is not part of the equation.

Companies that don't have to offer insurance and don't offer insurance are cheating no one. Their profit margin will increase. If their employees get pissed off and leave, they will hire new ones who want a job, more of them than before, because it will take more to fill the larger number of slots needed to get the work done with reduced hours. McDonald's doesn't seem to have a staffing problem.

People who lose their health insurance because of the ACA means more Republican voters. See how it works out?

Boy you guys are really pretty dumb, aren't you.

Actually, only 4% under shitty plans are losing their shitty plans. 80% are keeping their plans and 16% can actually get plans now.

If you aren't offering health insurance, you are really, really getting the bottom of the barrel employees, and cutting their hours to 30 a week so you don't have to offer them insurance when the Employer Mandate kicks in is not going to make them better employees.

And seriously, have you BEEN to a McDonald's lately?

My plan doesn't cover everything but then I don't need everything covered and its not a (insert dem talking point word of the day here ie shitty, crappy, bad) plan.

No one's plan covers 'everything.' If you have employer provided coverage, you get what their plan says you get and nothing more.

A lot of good employees work where there is no health insurance. I worked for a locum tenens company that gave you $275 each month and you found your own. Their employees were the best because you have to be very skilled to go to work in a place with 2 days training and carry the load you are expected to carry.

 

[Katzndogz]

obamacare was designed to end health inequality. Not everyone is equally healthy. If some are predisposed to be sick and others are predisposed not to be sick that is an inherent inequality that the government must equalize. Healthy people have been paying lower premiums which is unfair.

Obamacare Architect: Genetic "Lottery Winners" Have Been Paying An "Artificially Low Price" | RealClearPolitics

GRUBER: Exactly. It's 12 million people, about a third of which will end up paying more under this law. And that as you said in the introductions sort of the idea. We currently have a highly discriminatory system where if you’re sick, if you’ve been sick or [if] you’re going to get sick, you cannot get health insurance.

The only way to end that discriminatory system is to bring everyone into the system and pay one fair price. That means that the genetic winners, the lottery winners who've been paying an artificially low price because of this discrimination now will have to pay more in return.

 

[regent]

The Republicans have made tremendous strides with their wand, at one time when waved it brought on a recession/depression now it only shuts down the government.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

obamacare was designed to end health inequality. Not everyone is equally healthy. If some are predisposed to be sick and others are predisposed not to be sick that is an inherent inequality that the government must equalize. Healthy people have been paying lower premiums which is unfair.

Obamacare Architect: Genetic "Lottery Winners" Have Been Paying An "Artificially Low Price" | RealClearPolitics

GRUBER: Exactly. It's 12 million people, about a third of which will end up paying more under this law. And that as you said in the introductions sort of the idea. We currently have a highly discriminatory system where if you’re sick, if you’ve been sick or [if] you’re going to get sick, you cannot get health insurance.

The only way to end that discriminatory system is to bring everyone into the system and pay one fair price. That means that the genetic winners, the lottery winners who've been paying an artificially low price because of this discrimination now will have to pay more in return.

so why don't they charge just one equal price to everybody buying Obamacare....and eliminate all other forms of discrimination as well.....like age discrimination, gender discrimination, income discrimination, marital discrimination, etc.....?

people like JoeB131 think insurance companies rip people off.....seems like government is doing the same thing....

 

[gallantwarrior]

This meltdown is just unbelievable. Ohama is giving the the pubs victory in 2014. And to think, Obama will be on the ropes the next 3 years.

Everyone will get their licks in

-Geaux

Our very own boy wonder, Mark Bagitch, is twisting like a dreidel. He only won his seat by a very slim margin because of the trumped up (and later dismissed) charges against the incumbent senator.

 

[gallantwarrior]

actually, it's politically brilliant.

He has now put the onus on Big Insurance, which had been using ObamaCare as the "Dog that Ate Everyone's Homework", to put up or shut up.

And when people realize it's the insurance companies and not the ACA that is the problem, then you might get some discussions about public options, medicare buy ins, and so on.

Do you think that maybe the Insurance lobby may have been at least partially behind the "mandate" in the ACA and now that there's a year extension they are a little upset?

Oh, I'm sure they are.

So what?

Look what they wanted was an exchange- Dropping restrictions on pre-existing conditions in exchange for forcing everyone to buy in.

Really, kind of what like the insurance industry lobbied for with car insurance. Everyone has to get it, so that the costs are spread evenly.

But even though they had FOUR YEARS to develop a plan to implement, they decided- one more time- to abuse their policyholders and leave the government with the blame.

Apples and oranges. No one is forced to buy car insurance.

 

[gallantwarrior]

[

i see you've bought into the "government solution" hook, line, and sinker...

as for insurance companies....like government we need to get them out of the healthcare business and turn to free market competition where the consumer is in control.....this is the most advanced state....

insurance is basically a bet......it should only be used for high ticket catastrophic scenarios.....not everyday doctoring...

Okay, guy, here's the problem. Any kind of "everyday doctoring" costs a lot of money.

Health care should not only be available to those who can afford it. It should be a basic service.



I've bought into the "government solution" for the same reason I've bought into gun control.

It's what everyone else does and it works.

Everyday doctoring would not cost much if big insurance and government were not involved.

 

[gallantwarrior]

[

You ignoramus. A FOR PROFIT corporation does not exist to be charitable. A FOR PROFIT corporation exists to increase the wealth of the owner and shareholders. Being charitable is not part of the equation.

Companies that don't have to offer insurance and don't offer insurance are cheating no one. Their profit margin will increase. If their employees get pissed off and leave, they will hire new ones who want a job, more of them than before, because it will take more to fill the larger number of slots needed to get the work done with reduced hours. McDonald's doesn't seem to have a staffing problem.

People who lose their health insurance because of the ACA means more Republican voters. See how it works out?

Boy you guys are really pretty dumb, aren't you.

Actually, only 4% under shitty plans are losing their shitty plans. 80% are keeping their plans and 16% can actually get plans now.

If you aren't offering health insurance, you are really, really getting the bottom of the barrel employees, and cutting their hours to 30 a week so you don't have to offer them insurance when the Employer Mandate kicks in is not going to make them better employees.

And seriously, have you BEEN to a McDonald's lately?

Do you have a link to support those statistics?

 

[gallantwarrior]

obamacare was designed to end health inequality. Not everyone is equally healthy. If some are predisposed to be sick and others are predisposed not to be sick that is an inherent inequality that the government must equalize. Healthy people have been paying lower premiums which is unfair.

Obamacare Architect: Genetic "Lottery Winners" Have Been Paying An "Artificially Low Price" | RealClearPolitics

GRUBER: Exactly. It's 12 million people, about a third of which will end up paying more under this law. And that as you said in the introductions sort of the idea. We currently have a highly discriminatory system where if you’re sick, if you’ve been sick or [if] you’re going to get sick, you cannot get health insurance.

The only way to end that discriminatory system is to bring everyone into the system and pay one fair price. That means that the genetic winners, the lottery winners who've been paying an artificially low price because of this discrimination now will have to pay more in return.

Here's an idea: since many, if not most, genetically heritable diseases and disabilities can be identified in utero, why not mandate all fetuses be genetically tested for such and if they have a genetic disposition towards any expensive condition, let's take the less expensive option and abort them before they become a huge price tag. That way, we won't have to decide whether the winners have to pay for the losers.

 

[JoeNormal]

[

costs are the main reason to go free market competition....

costs are why we need to have tort reform....

costs are why we need to have pre-tax health savings accounts...

costs are why we need to be able to have portable and cross-stateline care...

costs are why we need to get rid of all the middlemen like government, insurance companies, employers, unions, etc.

People can afford to pay for homes and cars....why on earth can't they pay for their healthcare too....?

Do you think Big Government should step in and completely control your home, your car, your food, your education, your life.....?

oh wait....you commies do think that...

Guy, have you ever actually HAD a really expensive medical procedure?

I did about 5 years ago. Two operations- one on my stomach to correct a problem and the other on my knee after I slipped on some ice and mangled it.

My total bills that year exceeded my annual salary. My insurance picked up 80% of it, but the 20% I was left with hit me with huge debts, and oddly enough, afterwards, my company made a concerted effort to get rid of me just like they did with any other employee who got injured, sick or pregnant.

Fact is, every other industrial nation has single payer or universal health care. Germany has had it since 1888.

All the talking points about how we just need to let the insurance companies and banks be greedier,and our problems will be solved is silly.

That's how we got into this mess to start with.

I got a $90,000 medical bill two years ago, want me to explain to you how you easy it was to pay, even without insurance?

I'd like to know.

 

[JoeB131]

[

You don't know that. Why would a woman 65 years of age with a hysterectomy need obstetric coverage? Her plan not having that coverage doesn't make it inferior. It just makes the policy more affordable.

And government agencies only test prototypes of the car. It doesn't test YOUR car.

God, you are stupid.

If she has the coverage, she isn't paying anything for it, so I guess I just don't see the problem.

The thing is, a 65 year old woman who needed her uterus removed wouldn't be TOUCHED by a private insurance carrier on a bet.

Hence, why she has medicare...

 

[JoeB131]

[

Apples and oranges. No one is forced to buy car insurance.

No, just people who own cars and drive them...

 

[OODA_Loop]

[

Apples and oranges. No one is forced to buy car insurance.

No, just people who own cars and drive them...

Smartest Joe post evah.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Do you think that maybe the Insurance lobby may have been at least partially behind the "mandate" in the ACA and now that there's a year extension they are a little upset?

Oh, I'm sure they are.

So what?

Look what they wanted was an exchange- Dropping restrictions on pre-existing conditions in exchange for forcing everyone to buy in.

Really, kind of what like the insurance industry lobbied for with car insurance. Everyone has to get it, so that the costs are spread evenly.

But even though they had FOUR YEARS to develop a plan to implement, they decided- one more time- to abuse their policyholders and leave the government with the blame.

Apples and oranges. No one is forced to buy car insurance.

you mean "not everyone"

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

[

Apples and oranges. No one is forced to buy car insurance.

No, just people who own cars and drive them...

ergo, apples and oranges are both fruits