Obama throws Bush under the bus......accuses him of torture

[Ibentoken]

Sorry

Done having a discussion with a racist on the morality of torture

RW, you have zero integrity, and zero ethics. YOU speaking of "morality" is beyond the pale.

Who? Where?

You forgot what? You forgot when?

Refresh my memory of when democrats supported torture

What percentage of America believes waterboarding is torture?

 

[Erand7899]

No one responds to your stupid remarks because your comment on this topic is so ridiculous. US military persons who submit to water boarding do so voluntarily. It is part of their training. They volunteer and request to be given the privilege to serve in units and occupations that have a higher than normal chance of capture. More significantly, they know that the persons applying the torture will probably not actually kill them by drowning. The enemy torture victim does not know that.

The five year old that gets her legs blown off by an American missile aimed at the guy two tables away, does not know that we didn't actually want to blow her legs off. Those damn left wing American values again. Blowing the legs off an innocent five year old in order to get a terrorist? OK. Waterboarding the terrorist? Horrible.

Foreign terrorists deserve due process. American terrorists, not so much.

You loons need to figure out what real American values are, and what really is torture.

Well, we can do it another way. We can take a known terrorist off the target list because he keeps an American citizens in his vicinity at all times. So, the worst of the terrorist can simply take up with an American recruit and be free to operate without fear of a drone attack or airstrike. We can also use personnel to attempt capture or eyes on close up assassination of the target to avoid collateral damage. The problem with that is that the chances are there will be more collateral damage done during the operation than a targeted drone or airstrike.
How about if when you remind us of the horrors of war, you offer up your solutions.

I remind you of the horrors of war to illustrate how screwed up your sensibilities are. Blowing the legs off of an innocent five year old is far, far, more terrible than water boarding a terrorist scumbag. Both happen in warfare, and have happened since warfare began.

 

[Yarddog]

Who? Where?

You forgot what? You forgot when?

Refresh my memory of when democrats supported torture

didnt a democrate endorse the fire bombing of Dresden germany in a war?

if I remember right it was to bring a nation into submission by breaking their will

through human suffering. I imagine german civilians suffered horrific slow, tourturous deaths.

So the CIA waterboarded 3 EL Quida. Who gives a fuck? do you know how they torture people? they wrap piano wire around their forheads really tight and peel off their face.
And other horrendous things. They deserve to be water boarded.

 

[Indofred]

What percentage of America believes waterboarding is torture?

Does it matter?
Torture is still a crime under international law, so those who engage in it should be arrested and sent to trial.

Of course, America being a civilised country, won't do that.

Except for a couple of idiots who filmed themselves abusing prisoners, America NEVER arrests its war criminals.

 

[Interpol]

Republicans are the party of torture after all

They actually celebrate it

Other than sociopaths (who exist in both parties) I don't think anyone "celebrates" it. But I can tell you quite honestly, that if someone kidnapped my little girl and I knew he knew where she was I would make him suffer till he told me where she was.

Anyone who says different in a similar situation is a flat out liar.

So stupid.

If a sociopath kidnaps your kid and you torture the person, life doesn't work like the movies.

Is she in a forest? Yes, she's in a forest!

Is she locked in a hole in the basement of a house somewhere? Yes, she's locked in a hole in the basement of a house!

When people are tortured, they just say what they think you want to hear. That's why torture is the hugest #FAIL tactic around.

There has never been one instance in the War on Terror where torture actually gave us any credible information. Not once.

But go ahead, believe what "24" tells you.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Obama is undermining the US as usual. What would one expect from a plant?

 

[Erand7899]

Deflect much?

Let's get back to your love of torture

Are you trying to ride another high horse to death, Rightwinger? Do you consider blowing the legs off of an innocent five year old to be torture? Do you consider shooting a terrorist in the gut, and leave him to die, screaming in pain, to be torture?

Do you consider the fire bombing of Tokyo to be torture for the tens of thousands of people fleeing for their lives from the fire storms?

All you left wingers have very selective sensibilities, and your concept of torture is another of those selective sensibilities.

We have always acknowledged the horrors of war. But shooting an enemy combatant is not the same.

I can drop a bomb and blow off your leg. It is not the same thing as cutting off your leg as I torture you

Someone being tortured has already surrendered and is under your control. There are principles of war and principles of humanity that dictate how you treat prisoners

The US used to be at the forefront in our civilized treatment of our prisoners....under the Bush administration...we slipped

Acknowledging the horrors of war is not the same as putting them in perspective in the sensibilities department. There is very little difference to the person losing the legs whether they were blown off, or cut off. They are gone and that child will live with it for the rest of her life.

I imagine that five year old would have preferred to surrender than have her legs blown off, but she didn't get the opportunity.

Your knowledge of the treatment of prisoners is right up there with your knowledge of life itself. Did you know that during the civil war, the union POW camp in Chicago used to routinely shoot Black confederate soldiers as they came through the gate? Did you know that Japanese POWs had about a fifty-fifty chance of getting away from the front lines? Marines would cut them up in revenge for their buddies who got cut up by the Japanese.

In Europe, the OSS, assassinated and tortured Germans and French citizens who were believed to be in league with the Germans. Capture two Germans, beat one to death with a baseball bat, and the other would talk up a storm.

In German POW camps here in the United States, authorities turned a blind eye as NAZI prisoner goon squads disciplined soldiers they thought were getting too friendly with the American guards. POWs were seriously beaten, and some were killed.

Your idea of what is, or is not American values is about as fictious as your left wing ideology.

 

[Camp]

The five year old that gets her legs blown off by an American missile aimed at the guy two tables away, does not know that we didn't actually want to blow her legs off. Those damn left wing American values again. Blowing the legs off an innocent five year old in order to get a terrorist? OK. Waterboarding the terrorist? Horrible.

Foreign terrorists deserve due process. American terrorists, not so much.

You loons need to figure out what real American values are, and what really is torture.

Well, we can do it another way. We can take a known terrorist off the target list because he keeps an American citizens in his vicinity at all times. So, the worst of the terrorist can simply take up with an American recruit and be free to operate without fear of a drone attack or airstrike. We can also use personnel to attempt capture or eyes on close up assassination of the target to avoid collateral damage. The problem with that is that the chances are there will be more collateral damage done during the operation than a targeted drone or airstrike.
How about if when you remind us of the horrors of war, you offer up your solutions.

I remind you of the horrors of war to illustrate how screwed up your sensibilities are. Blowing the legs off of an innocent five year old is far, far, more terrible than water boarding a terrorist scumbag. Both happen in warfare, and have happened since warfare began.

Stop the preaching and name calling and give your solution like you where originally challenged to do. How would you kill or capture the terrorist that is planning an attack that will kill Americans when you know his location but the location is beyond your reach without the use of a drone, a manned aircraft with a cruise missile or a special operations insertion.

 

[Ibentoken]

What percentage of America believes waterboarding is torture?

Does it matter?
Torture is still a crime under international law, so those who engage in it should be arrested and sent to trial.

Of course, America being a civilised country, won't do that.

Except for a couple of idiots who filmed themselves abusing prisoners, America NEVER arrests its war criminals.

It matters. You claim waterboarding is torture. You're in a minority. A majority of Americans disagree with you. Perhaps you're insignificant. It's sure easier to talk about than defending Obama, huh. Obama has slaughtered civilians with drones without a trial. Is Obama a "war criminal"?

 

[Erand7899]

Republicans are the party of torture after all

They actually celebrate it

Other than sociopaths (who exist in both parties) I don't think anyone "celebrates" it. But I can tell you quite honestly, that if someone kidnapped my little girl and I knew he knew where she was I would make him suffer till he told me where she was.

Anyone who says different in a similar situation is a flat out liar.

So stupid.

If a sociopath kidnaps your kid and you torture the person, life doesn't work like the movies.

Is she in a forest? Yes, she's in a forest!

Is she locked in a hole in the basement of a house somewhere? Yes, she's locked in a hole in the basement of a house!

When people are tortured, they just say what they think you want to hear. That's why torture is the hugest #FAIL tactic around.

There has never been one instance in the War on Terror where torture actually gave us any credible information. Not once.

But go ahead, believe what "24" tells you.

Such ignorance. During SERE training in the 60's, we were told that within a week, we would tell the torturers everything we knew about the military, and anthing else they asked about. They asked us to hold out for three days, if captured, because by then what we knew would not do the enemy much good. They let us experience just a little bit of the pain that we could expect from the North Vietnamese and/or the Viet Cong.

Like other forms of interrogation, torture works, and it works as effectively as the skill and knowledge of the interrogator allows.

Only an idiot lies to the interrogator when he knows that the cost of a lie will be the loss of a couple of more toes or another finger. People are kind of fond of their body parts, let alone the pain of their removal.

 

[bodecea]

If we started burying people alive and letting them stay buried till they passed out from lack of oxygen before we revived them, would that be torture redfish?

No marks, no physical harm at all. Mental harm may be different but would that action be torture?
Just curious where the limits might be.

Not a valid analogy. No one has ever died from waterboarding, being buried alive has resulted in millions of deaths.

Now, if we want to define torture, lets look at what muslims do to those who do not kowtow to mohammed.
beheading
feet first into a wood chipper
pushed off a third floor roof
electrodes to the testicles
eyes burned out with a red hot poker
gang rape
cutting off hands, feet, ears, noses
making you stand in a water filled room and then dropping electric leads into the water
pulling off fingernails
cutting off tongues

you libtards get all spun up about waterboarding but say nothing about the methods of your muslim friends. you are lunatics.

So we set our own standard of behavior at the level of Muslim terrorists. Nobody defends what they do, but it in no way justifies sinking to their level and engaging in torture

Some don't mind sinking to their level......don't mind at all.

 

[The Rabbi]

Republicans are the party of torture after all

They actually celebrate it

Other than sociopaths (who exist in both parties) I don't think anyone "celebrates" it. But I can tell you quite honestly, that if someone kidnapped my little girl and I knew he knew where she was I would make him suffer till he told me where she was.

Anyone who says different in a similar situation is a flat out liar.

So stupid.

If a sociopath kidnaps your kid and you torture the person, life doesn't work like the movies.

Is she in a forest? Yes, she's in a forest!

Is she locked in a hole in the basement of a house somewhere? Yes, she's locked in a hole in the basement of a house!

When people are tortured, they just say what they think you want to hear. That's why torture is the hugest #FAIL tactic around.

There has never been one instance in the War on Terror where torture actually gave us any credible information. Not once.

But go ahead, believe what "24" tells you.

Do you really think the US hasnt figured that out? Do you really want to compare a TV version of a torture to the professional interrogation the US engaged in?

 

[Erand7899]

Republicans are the party of torture after all

They actually celebrate it

Other than sociopaths (who exist in both parties) I don't think anyone "celebrates" it. But I can tell you quite honestly, that if someone kidnapped my little girl and I knew he knew where she was I would make him suffer till he told me where she was.

Anyone who says different in a similar situation is a flat out liar.

So stupid.

If a sociopath kidnaps your kid and you torture the person, life doesn't work like the movies.

Is she in a forest? Yes, she's in a forest!

Is she locked in a hole in the basement of a house somewhere? Yes, she's locked in a hole in the basement of a house!

When people are tortured, they just say what they think you want to hear. That's why torture is the hugest #FAIL tactic around.

There has never been one instance in the War on Terror where torture actually gave us any credible information. Not once.

But go ahead, believe what "24" tells you.

Such ignorance. During SERE training in the 60's, we were told that within a week, we would tell the torturers everything we knew about the military, and anthing else they asked about. They asked us to hold out for three days, if captured, because by then what we knew would not do the enemy much good. They let us experience just a little bit of the pain that we could expect from the North Vietnamese and/or the Viet Cong.

Like other forms of interrogation, torture works, and it works as effectively as the skill and knowledge of the interrogator allows. Torture works for the enemy, it works for the Mafia, so why would you assume that it would not work anywhere else?

Only an idiot lies to the interrogator when he knows that the cost of a lie will be the loss of a couple of more toes or another finger. People are kind of fond of their body parts, let alone the pain of their removal.

 

[rightwinger]

You forgot what? You forgot when?

Refresh my memory of when democrats supported torture

didnt a democrate endorse the fire bombing of Dresden germany in a war?

if I remember right it was to bring a nation into submission by breaking their will

through human suffering. I imagine german civilians suffered horrific slow, tourturous deaths.

So the CIA waterboarded 3 EL Quida. Who gives a fuck? do you know how they torture people? they wrap piano wire around their forheads really tight and peel off their face.
And other horrendous things. They deserve to be water boarded.

War is hell, always has been

 

[Meister]

Who? Where?

You forgot what? You forgot when?

Refresh my memory of when democrats supported torture

Vietnam for one.
Do I need to keep going?

 

[Camp]

You forgot what? You forgot when?

Refresh my memory of when democrats supported torture

Vietnam for one.
Do I need to keep going?

You need to show a link proving it was institutionalized and approved by any administration or claimed as a legal tactic for obtaining intelligence data.

 

[Ibentoken]

Not a valid analogy. No one has ever died from waterboarding, being buried alive has resulted in millions of deaths.

Now, if we want to define torture, lets look at what muslims do to those who do not kowtow to mohammed.
beheading
feet first into a wood chipper
pushed off a third floor roof
electrodes to the testicles
eyes burned out with a red hot poker
gang rape
cutting off hands, feet, ears, noses
making you stand in a water filled room and then dropping electric leads into the water
pulling off fingernails
cutting off tongues

you libtards get all spun up about waterboarding but say nothing about the methods of your muslim friends. you are lunatics.

So we set our own standard of behavior at the level of Muslim terrorists. Nobody defends what they do, but it in no way justifies sinking to their level and engaging in torture

Some don't mind sinking to their level......don't mind at all.

Have you considered therapy to help you through the trauma?

 

[JimH52]

Actually, when Bush listened to Uncle Fester DICK Cheney, he jumped under the bus himself. For generations water boarding was considered punishment....until DICK decided that it wasn't. Then the far right loons on this board fell over themselves defending the practice. Really....it was embarrassing.

 

[rightwinger]

You forgot what? You forgot when?

Refresh my memory of when democrats supported torture

Vietnam for one.
Do I need to keep going?

OK....let's see where Democrats advocated torturing Vietnamese prisoners

 

[The Rabbi]

Actually, when Bush listened to Uncle Fester DICK Cheney, he jumped under the bus himself. For generations water boarding was considered punishment....until DICK decided that it wasn't. Then the far right loons on this board fell over themselves defending the practice. Really....it was embarrassing.

Link to any of those statements? Waterboarding is part of military training in some areas.