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This thread is a classic example of trying to make history fit our political beliefs.
To make it fit we have to change history a might and put a different slant on a few items, but when we finish we can use history to prove Obama is a bad president or good president depending on our politics.
The first time I read the Ho's Declaration and compared it to our 1776 document, it was easy to see that that Jefferson was a communist, and every fourth of July America celebrated a communist holiday. I knew that equal-stuff had to be commie propaganda written by Marx, and it really meant a redistribution of wealth.
Did I claim he did? You can't call me a liar because I never stated that and Vietnam was a French colony when Ho Chi Minh he returned to Vietnam. Was Vietnam not a French colony when Ho Chi Minh returned?
Like usual, you are trying to put words in my mouth, and looking like an idiot.
Also like I stated when I posted the link I don't like Mother Jones and today was the first time I read the site in probably a year.
Instead of trying to act intelligent read what people post instead of going full retard.
You just said that Ho Chi Min fought against the control of the French, he didn't. The "August Revolution" was a lot more like Iraq would have been like if we had gone in, took down Saddam Hussein, and left. There was a massive power vacuum after we beat Japan in WWII, and the Viet Minh stepped in and seized the government offices, forcing the Emperor to abdicate. It was after this that Ho Chi Minh gave his little speech which was not a Declaration of Independence so much as it was an announcement of the plan to nationalize all foreign businesses and an excuse to torture foreigners and everyone he declared to be an enemy of the state. If you want to know who inspired him I suggest you look to Stalin, not Jefferson.
This is history, try reading it sometime. If pointing out the truth when you say something that is patently false is putting words in your mouth, get over it because people will always be putting words in your mouth.
Omg all I said was how he could have been inspired by Jefferson. I never said he acted like Jefferson, implemented any policies that were Jefferson like, led his life like Jefferson etc.. I know what Ho Chi Minh was like. The point is he claimed to be inspired by him, which is what they discussed. Fuck!
As for the French and the August Revolution. Try taking a history class and not looking up Wikipedia.
I am seriously beginning to question the comprehension skills of a lot of people on this forum.
Are all of you so 'knee jerk' that anything Obama says is immediately attacked without taking a micro second to stop and think about what IS being said, NOT what you think he'll say?
I have every reason to dislike Obama, but come on people. It is a historical fact that Minh admired the US and its Constitution. Simply because he made poor choices in accepting help from Russia and China, and then became a brutal murderer does not reflect upon us, or Obama.
If Obama had said that he admired the career and methods of Minh, then we all would have issue.
Stop arguing simply for the sake of disagreement. If you can't do that, seek help.
Here is the problem. He was not likening them to our founding fathers. He was specifically addressing Minh's perception of America and our founding fathers. Yes, Minh turned into a brutal and savage killer of his own people. His evil has rarely been duplicated (thank the lord) and cannot be ignored.I am seriously beginning to question the comprehension skills of a lot of people on this forum.
Are all of you so 'knee jerk' that anything Obama says is immediately attacked without taking a micro second to stop and think about what IS being said, NOT what you think he'll say?
I have every reason to dislike Obama, but come on people. It is a historical fact that Minh admired the US and its Constitution. Simply because he made poor choices in accepting help from Russia and China, and then became a brutal murderer does not reflect upon us, or Obama.
If Obama had said that he admired the career and methods of Minh, then we all would have issue.
Stop arguing simply for the sake of disagreement. If you can't do that, seek help.
But he turned into a murderer with his admiration...as it did with Pol Pot...History bears this out my friend...that is why the outrage by some regarding the O's comments and the comparison. The O is touting a murderer and likening him to our own Founders...there is no comparison...it's what you do with liberty that counts, Minh can roast in Hell.
However, it does not change the fact that prior to his going bat shit crazy and one of the worlds most brutal killers, he reached out to the United States because he admired our form of government.
In the end, that does not reflect upon us. It is just a historical fact.
Ho Chi Minh was inspired by the US founding fathers. They both led independence movements.
Why is this a "scandal" ?
If US troops suffered at the hands of Ho Chi Minh's soldiers, IT'S BECAUSE THE US TROOPS SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THERE.
Scandal is one word: COMMUNISM.
Simple. He was on the wrong side.
Ho Chi Minh was more for Vietnamese independence from French rule than communism. The communism was just to get Russian & Chinese support, which worked And they defeated and humiliated the US, which should have learned its lesson then, but had to relearn it in Iraq: Mind yer bidness, bully.
The right wing is now whining about doing nothing in Syria. IMO, were finally getting the policy right: We're staying out of it.
I'm sorry that Vietnam Vets suffered and died. The bullying US leadership is to blame for that, not the Vietnamese.
Any look at Vietnam today, and its clear that they weren't really communists. Ford Motors has a factory there, for crying out loud.
[quote=Quantum Windbag;76005
You keep saying he was inspired by Jefferson yet present absolutely no evidence to back it up, and ask why people keep asking you what you base your statement on. Where, exactly, did Minh claim he was inspired by Jefferson? When, and if, he said it, what was he trying to accomplish? How come no one before The One ever pointed this out?
"absolutely not evidence" ? It's in every Vietnam history book printed. Common accepted knowledge that was discussed when we were in Vietnam. "Where exactly, did Minh claim he was inspire by Jefferson?", in a letter he wrote to President Truman, the same one he discussed with President Obama, which Obama mentioned, which started this whole debate.
[
Read the "Survivalist" post about hearts and minds in this thread. You don't want to look at what the communists did to the Vietnamese people. You don't want to admit that Ho was a butcher and a madman. You don't want to know he slaughtered half a million with "hearts and minds" enough to fight like tigers against his kind. I lived amongst the Bahnar tribesmen and know the stories. I saw their prison camps. I saw the body parts they left behind as warnings to those who resisted them, and I was fortunate enough to send several of them to their graves.....educate yourself for a change instead of swallowing what you're fed from those who hate the USA....particularly the muslim moron in the WH....what he said about Ho Chi Minh is even more offensive than bowing to the jap emperor.....there is no honor with him...no dignity.
Read the "Survivalist" post about hearts and minds in this thread. You don't want to look at what the communists did to the Vietnamese people. You don't want to admit that Ho was a butcher and a madman. You don't want to know he slaughtered half a million with "hearts and minds" enough to fight like tigers against his kind. I lived amongst the Bahnar tribesmen and know the stories. I saw their prison camps. I saw the body parts they left behind as warnings to those who resisted them, and I was fortunate enough to send several of them to their graves.....educate yourself for a change instead of swallowing what you're fed from those who hate the USA....particularly the muslim moron in the WH....what he said about Ho Chi Minh is even more offensive than bowing to the jap emperor.....there is no honor with him...no dignity.
You went there. You got your ass kicked. Get over it.
Not a very respectful way to address a Vietnam veteran.
Here is the problem. He was not likening them to our founding fathers. He was specifically addressing Minh's perception of America and our founding fathers. Yes, Minh turned into a brutal and savage killer of his own people. His evil has rarely been duplicated (thank the lord) and cannot be ignored.But he turned into a murderer with his admiration...as it did with Pol Pot...History bears this out my friend...that is why the outrage by some regarding the O's comments and the comparison. The O is touting a murderer and likening him to our own Founders...there is no comparison...it's what you do with liberty that counts, Minh can roast in Hell.
However, it does not change the fact that prior to his going bat shit crazy and one of the worlds most brutal killers, he reached out to the United States because he admired our form of government.
In the end, that does not reflect upon us. It is just a historical fact.
He was specifically doing nothing of the sort. Minh viewed the US as a way to keep China, and France, in check. He wanted Truman to actively step in and support his government, Truman didn't fall for it, even if you did.
Here is the problem. He was not likening them to our founding fathers. He was specifically addressing Minh's perception of America and our founding fathers. Yes, Minh turned into a brutal and savage killer of his own people. His evil has rarely been duplicated (thank the lord) and cannot be ignored.
However, it does not change the fact that prior to his going bat shit crazy and one of the worlds most brutal killers, he reached out to the United States because he admired our form of government.
In the end, that does not reflect upon us. It is just a historical fact.
He was specifically doing nothing of the sort. Minh viewed the US as a way to keep China, and France, in check. He wanted Truman to actively step in and support his government, Truman didn't fall for it, even if you did.
Bingo, agreed, he hated the Chinese more than the french to boot....
Further-
FDR spoke up at Yalta but Degaulle was pressuring him and he then went on to pressure Truman and he ( Truman) made little mention of it at Potsdam.
By the time 47-48 rolled around it was clear what Stalin and Maos game was, we were losing china ( I don't agree that we ever had it but we did then, Kai-shek was not capable of much) and in 45 regardless of his propaganda program ala the US and declarations, Ho was already in the act of dissolving the Indochinese Communist party and creating, which he did in I beleive it was 51, the Lao Dong party and like the IPC, it was completely communist in leanings and intent....by the way Ho had helped gather the 3 Vietnamese communist parties together to create the Indochinese comm. party in ....wait for it....1930.
The man was a dyed in the wool communist true believer and there isn't one concrete thing to refute that and, not that he didn't have his chance; when the french were sent packing in 55,56 he had the opportunity to install a pluralist, federal republic along our lines, he didn't and from his previous actions, he never intended too....it is what is and.... was.
And my point. He could have chosen a different path...he didn't...He WAS a Communist and ultimately showed it. And I note certain people trying to shield Obama's Comments...Obama was wrong and doesn't have a clue...but then Obama's parents/Grandparents were Communists and well known to be...Obama agrees with Revisionist history...typical of ANY Statist dupe like Obama.And again...it's what one does with the librerty they persue. How many times do I have to point out Minh went down the wrong road regarding the liberty he sought? And thus why the comparison is invalid. Maybe Obama and YOU aren't as smart as you figured, eh?
We were the ones that went down the wrong road by getting all up in Vietnam's business. We should have left them alone. If we had, then Minh may have chosen to be more conciliatory to his enemies. I believe he would have.
be that as it may, he had that opportunity, he didn't and before we 'got there'......
He was in fact a stone cold communist from the late 20's and ......
WHOA! Obama Links Founding Fathers to Communist Tyrant and Murderer Ho Chi Minh
by Jim Hoft
July 25, 2013
What did we do to deserve this?
We now have a sitting president linking our Founding Fathers to a Communist tyrant, murderer and enemy of America.
Unbelievable!
ho chi ------------- washington
Barack Obama believes communist and murderer Ho Chi Minh was influenced by our Founding Fathers.
Has Barack ever heard of the Killing Fields?
Bridget Johnson at the PJ Tatler reported:
President Obama hailed hard-core communist revolutionary Ho Chi Minh today as a pretty open guy who was actually inspired by the Founders.
Obama took a break from his jobs-pivot speeches to meet Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang at the White House. The pair held joint remarks in the Oval Office afterward.
Obama said their first bilateral meeting represents the steady progression and strengthening of the relationship between our two countries.
Read more:
WHOA!? Obama Links Founding Fathers to Communist Tyrant and Murderer Ho Chi Minh | The Gateway Pundit
Will Obama next claim he carries Mao Zedong's "Little Red Book" in his pocket rather than the Constitution?
This is more "Progressive Propaganda Bullshit" that is trying to convince others just how bad the Founding Fathers were, and hoping more gullible people will drink the Kool-Aid and join their ranks.
America was designed by geniuses, and now it's being runned by idiots.
You're right..................America was designed by geniuses and is now being run by idiots.
Too bad so many of them are in the GOP.
why are obama supporters avoiding this thread?
Because conservatards have gone Full Retard on Obama so often - he's a Kenyan, he is Satan, he's a communist, he's a fascist, etc. - it's hard to take any of what the hard right says about him seriously.
Seems our revolution inspired the French Revolution, and that was an unpleasant revolution also. Maybe successful revolutions just inspire more revolutions?
The question I have is who did Ho ask for help first, the US, China or other?
"absolutely not evidence" ? It's in every Vietnam history book printed. Common accepted knowledge that was discussed when we were in Vietnam. "Where exactly, did Minh claim he was inspire by Jefferson?", in a letter he wrote to President Truman, the same one he discussed with President Obama, which Obama mentioned, which started this whole debate.
