Obama: Vietnam Leader Ho Chi Minh Was Inspired by Founding Fathers

[regent]

It seems ironic that America asked the French for help in throwing off colonialism and later we were asked for help in throwing off French colonialism.

Was it possible to have gathered Ho onto our side?

Were American politicians so afraid of being being accused of being friendly to Asians and communists that they were outwitted in supporting countries that were trying to throw off colonialism?

Which was the more important to the Vietnamese people, freedom from the French or communism?

Was the domino theory correct?

Did our fear of communism destroy an opportunity to become a leader in Asia and the world?

Our system of government is better and yet we seem to have lost one of the rounds, why?

 

[JoeB131]

[

"When you were in"? Listen shithead, you were never "in", I'd bet my life on it and could quickly prove it if you were worth another 5 minutes of my time...you are not. Our tour wasn't "6 months"....we did a year tour, USMC did 13 months. Nobody here or anywhere has ever heard me or any other combat Vet utter a word about "suffering". That word isn't in our vocabulary...nor is "PTSD", or "Agent Orange" or any of your other pet phrases. I despised draftees as a rule.....for the most part they were undisciplined and dangerous to be in the field with. But at least they stepped forward...you never did. And I was gone in late '68. What happened after that was hard to believe and I wanted no part of it. I returned to civilian life a little wild around the edges but smart enough to know how to leave it behind, as did most of the others. You will never know anything about Vietnam, about combat, about the brotherhood. You're not even a joke...you're just a bad smell.

Anyone who is still obsessing about the shit he did 45 years ago has some serious issues.

You are kind of missing my point.

Do you not understand why the Vietnamese didn't want us in their country, and they just refused to lie down and die?

Incidently, I was in when we didn't have a draft. I volunteered. BUt it was a practical thing. I was in it for defined benefits. It was a trade. Yeah, I said stuff to myself about "Patriotism", but I was completely over that shit by the time I got out.

 

[longknife]

I strongly suggest that a number of posters on this subject take the time to do was Barry Hussein clearly did not - go to History of Vietnam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

or Vietnam History, People, Economy, Geography, Government

or any of dozens of sites that clear up a lot of misconceptions.

And yes - I DID serve there but certainly don't let it occupy all my thoughts.

 

[Trajan]

"absolutely not evidence" ? It's in every Vietnam history book printed. Common accepted knowledge that was discussed when we were in Vietnam. "Where exactly, did Minh claim he was inspire by Jefferson?", in a letter he wrote to President Truman, the same one he discussed with President Obama, which Obama mentioned, which started this whole debate.

If I pick up a history book from the USSR it will talk about how the economy was so bad in the US that old people had to eat cat food, what's your point?

I didn't say there is no evidence, I asked a specific poster what she was basing her assessment of the evidence on.

The point is that for over 65 years the FACT that Ho Chi Minh claimed he was inspired to form an independent Vietnam by the American Revolution and the founding fathers has been accepted without question or debate until the current leader of Vietnam brought this subject up to the current President of the United States by referencing an actual letter written by Ho to President Truman. When the current President mentioned this portion of his meeting with the leader of Vietnam to the press, which he was obligated to do, it suddenly became a debate. A nonsense debate. It's an argument and debate about a non issue. It's a prime example of how the the folks who make a living out of "riling up the base" make a living. They get attention and publicity and that is why they get paid for speaking engagements and quest appearances on TV news programs. The sad part is that it makes the whole conservative movement look stupid and like a bunch of suckers. Instead of pressing forward with issue's that can be won and obtained, time is wasted on this kind of dumb stuff.

if its such a non issue why mention it at all? the anti war folks back in the 60's made a hash of this too, Ho was the George Washington of Indochina etc. it was non factual inane dross then and so it is now.... its the thinnest form of verisimilitude and especially considering nothing of it came to fruition, quite the opposite in fact. I don't see how he was obligated to make such a remark...*shrugs*

as far as spending any verbiage on this , well yea, sure, the prime example being this is what the media and 'exchange across the divide' has come too, affronts they are all equally guilty of. I don't see this as some show stopper, it was as I said, inane and kind of dumb imho, it'll sink of its own weight as this kind of thing usually does...and so it goes.

 

[Trajan]

Here is the problem. He was not likening them to our founding fathers. He was specifically addressing Minh's perception of America and our founding fathers. Yes, Minh turned into a brutal and savage killer of his own people. His evil has rarely been duplicated (thank the lord) and cannot be ignored.

However, it does not change the fact that prior to his going bat shit crazy and one of the worlds most brutal killers, he reached out to the United States because he admired our form of government.

In the end, that does not reflect upon us. It is just a historical fact.

And that's fine he reached out...in his effort to rid his country of the French...his problem? Communism.

Agreed. The phrench should not have been allowed to return, and our siding with them gave him little outlet for his ambition. So much so that he was willing to subjugate himself to Russia and then China. He was a bought man, with a modicum of power. To the worlds chagrin, he was permitted to exercise that power.

outlet for what?he never subjugated himself to anything, he found 'a home' in communism from the beginning... what he'd been practicing, training and striving for since 1920? in France? Or his training in Moscow in 22,23 and back again in 27? Or organizing the IPC in 1930?we should not be under the impression he just happened to go ahead and become communist in 44 or 45, or after Truman ignored Frances reinvestment in Vietnam after ww2. It was his life, literally and figuratively.

 

[Darkwind]

Q: What has Communism wrought for the human condition?

I don't particularly care for communism, but that doesn't change anything concerning the importance of Ho Chi Min as a nationalist leader and founding father for his country (two things he has in common with George Washington). Many nationalist leaders ended up being bad rulers, and the west were poor rulers over many colonies as well. Love him or hate him, he helped free his people from foreign rule and imperialism.

I'm not asking you to dance in the street over communism, I'm asking you to understand why it emerged there and why socialism was so popular in former colonies.

You have a problem with your analogy here. Taking Obama out of the equation and strictly considering Minh as a founding father of his country, in order to equate the two we would have to have a radically different history than the one we do now.

Minh admired America and its form of government, but that does not mean that he instituted that form of government.

In order to bring your analogy into line, we would have to say that Minh was to Washington ONLY if Washington declared himself King of America (Something he was offered btw) and then went out and slaughtered the entire population of South Carolina to bring about his kingship.

 

[Osomir]

You have a problem with your analogy here. Taking Obama out of the equation and strictly considering Minh as a founding father of his country, in order to equate the two we would have to have a radically different history than the one we do now.

Minh admired America and its form of government, but that does not mean that he instituted that form of government.

In order to bring your analogy into line, we would have to say that Minh was to Washington ONLY if Washington declared himself King of America (Something he was offered btw) and then went out and slaughtered the entire population of South Carolina to bring about his kingship.

They don't need to be completely the same in order to be compared, the simple fact is that both were founding fathers and both were nationalists. That's all the further one really needs to go to create a comparison.

 

[regent]

Perhaps it was the Declaration's concept that Ho was using, that people have a right to be ruled by a government that derive their powers from the consent of the governed?

 

[JoeB131]

[

outlet for what?he never subjugated himself to anything, he found 'a home' in communism from the beginning... what he'd been practicing, training and striving for since 1920? in France? Or his training in Moscow in 22,23 and back again in 27? Or organizing the IPC in 1930?we should not be under the impression he just happened to go ahead and become communist in 44 or 45, or after Truman ignored Frances reinvestment in Vietnam after ww2. It was his life, literally and figuratively.

So?

At a time where the whole world had more or less concluded that some form of socialism was the future, he picked his brand. So what?

Oh, yeah. Communism is "eeeeeeeevil".

Point was, we could have come down on the side of the Vietnamese people or the French imperialists, and we picked the wrong side.

 

[JoeB131]

[You have a problem with your analogy here. Taking Obama out of the equation and strictly considering Minh as a founding father of his country, in order to equate the two we would have to have a radically different history than the one we do now.

Minh admired America and its form of government, but that does not mean that he instituted that form of government.

In order to bring your analogy into line, we would have to say that Minh was to Washington ONLY if Washington declared himself King of America (Something he was offered btw) and then went out and slaughtered the entire population of South Carolina to bring about his kingship.

That's a pretty stupid analogy, since Ho Chi Mihn died long before the South was conquered.

We can also talk about how America genocided the shit out of the Native Americans. Or how the foundng fathers included a lot of slave-owners.

But, no, no, let's not do that. We need the grade school version of George Washington, and we need the Anti-communist agit-prop version of Ho in order to really, really feel good about ourselves.

 

[BlindBoo]

just because he stole or paraphrased from a document means squat absent any tangible usage and or application of the platforms, axioms expressed there in, it was an idiotic and inane comparison, to the max.

East Germany was known as the German Democratic Republic, it wasn't even close.....

Obama wasn't comparing anyone and you and the OP are too obsessed with your faux outrage to see that. All he said was he was inspired by them. He didn't defend what he did, just said he was inspired.
I also like how many Americans will point out the people the man killed but never mention what we did to the Vietnamese. So to sum it up, get over it, Presidents have to be diplomatic.

please tell me the point of his remark...

Catching flies is better with sugar than vinegar?

"We very much appreciate Vietnam’s continued cooperation as we try to recover our Missing in Action and those that were lost during the course of the war."

 

[Sallow]

WHOA!… Obama Links Founding Fathers to Communist Tyrant and Murderer Ho Chi Minh

by Jim Hoft
July 25, 2013

What did we do to deserve this?
We now have a sitting president linking our Founding Fathers to a Communist tyrant, murderer and enemy of America.
Unbelievable!

ho chi ------------- washington​

Barack Obama believes communist and murderer Ho Chi Minh was influenced by our Founding Fathers.

Has Barack ever heard of the Killing Fields?

Bridget Johnson at the PJ Tatler reported:


President Obama hailed hard-core communist revolutionary Ho Chi Minh today as a pretty open guy who was actually inspired by the Founders.

Obama took a break from his jobs-pivot speeches to meet Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang at the White House. The pair held joint remarks in the Oval Office afterward.

Obama said their first bilateral meeting “represents the steady progression and strengthening of the relationship between our two countries.”

Read more:
WHOA!? Obama Links Founding Fathers to Communist Tyrant and Murderer Ho Chi Minh | The Gateway Pundit

Will Obama next claim he carries Mao Zedong's "Little Red Book" in his pocket rather than the Constitution?

The Killing Fields happened in Cambodia.

Killing Fields - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And it was Vietnam that took out the Khmer Rouge.

KR Years: The Fall of the Khmer Rouge

You may be thinking of Pol Pot.

Ho Chi Mihn said that the two men that inspired him was Karl Marx and Thomas Jefferson.

Why do you folks hate history so much?

 

[Sallow]

[You have a problem with your analogy here. Taking Obama out of the equation and strictly considering Minh as a founding father of his country, in order to equate the two we would have to have a radically different history than the one we do now.

Minh admired America and its form of government, but that does not mean that he instituted that form of government.

In order to bring your analogy into line, we would have to say that Minh was to Washington ONLY if Washington declared himself King of America (Something he was offered btw) and then went out and slaughtered the entire population of South Carolina to bring about his kingship.

That's a pretty stupid analogy, since Ho Chi Mihn died long before the South was conquered.

We can also talk about how America genocided the shit out of the Native Americans. Or how the foundng fathers included a lot of slave-owners.

But, no, no, let's not do that. We need the grade school version of George Washington, and we need the Anti-communist agit-prop version of Ho in order to really, really feel good about ourselves.

Add in that over 2 million Vietnamese died because of American military actions in the region.

 

[Sallow]

Scandal is one word: COMMUNISM.

Simple. He was on the wrong side.

Ho Chi Minh was more for Vietnamese independence from French rule than communism. The communism was just to get Russian & Chinese support, which worked And they defeated and humiliated the US, which should have learned its lesson then, but had to relearn it in Iraq: Mind yer bidness, bully.

The right wing is now whining about doing nothing in Syria. IMO, were finally getting the policy right: We're staying out of it.

I'm sorry that Vietnam Vets suffered and died. The bullying US leadership is to blame for that, not the Vietnamese.

Any look at Vietnam today, and its clear that they weren't really communists. Ford Motors has a factory there, for crying out loud.

Like all dictators, he was more for personal power than anything else. If all he wanted was to keep the French out he could have negotiated with China for them to stay.

Except that Mihn agreed to full and free elections.

That's something Eisenhower kiboshed..because he fully believed that Mihn would win.

 

[eagle7_31]

Uh Ho: Obama Says Vietnamese Dictator Inspired by Founding Fathers | Fox News

was a mass murderer just like other communist dictators, no amout of lwing spin can change that.

 

[JoeBlam]

Uh Ho: Obama Says Vietnamese Dictator Inspired by Founding Fathers | Fox News

was a mass murderer just like other communist dictators, no amout of lwing spin can change that.

That's correct and no matter how this JoeB131 moron tries to paint communism as a benign system, the Viet model was as sadistic and murderous as anything Mao or Stalin did to their people. There was also no "civil war"......what there was was an invasion from the communist north using regular army and paramilitary 5th columists in the south, bought and paid for by the soviet union. We could have had the same outcome as Korea if we hadn't been sold out by our homegrown (and financed) leftist dupes in the MSM.

 

[JoeB131]

That's correct and no matter how this JoeB131 moron tries to paint communism as a benign system, the Viet model was as sadistic and murderous as anything Mao or Stalin did to their people. There was also no "civil war"......what there was was an invasion from the communist north using regular army and paramilitary 5th columists in the south, bought and paid for by the soviet union. We could have had the same outcome as Korea if we hadn't been sold out by our homegrown (and financed) leftist dupes in the MSM.

Not saying it was a benign system. No government is Benign, including our own.

But it was a civil war. There were two factions, and we picked the wrong side.

The problem is, dumb fucks in Washington saw it as "Communism" against "Democracy" (snigger, yeah, right), when in fact, if they ever had a national election, Ho Chi Mihn would have won.

Maybe you need to read about General Ky and General Theiu and the other thugs we supported.

 

[Darkwind]

[You have a problem with your analogy here. Taking Obama out of the equation and strictly considering Minh as a founding father of his country, in order to equate the two we would have to have a radically different history than the one we do now.

Minh admired America and its form of government, but that does not mean that he instituted that form of government.

In order to bring your analogy into line, we would have to say that Minh was to Washington ONLY if Washington declared himself King of America (Something he was offered btw) and then went out and slaughtered the entire population of South Carolina to bring about his kingship.

That's a pretty stupid analogy, since Ho Chi Mihn died long before the South was conquered.

We can also talk about how America genocided the shit out of the Native Americans. Or how the foundng fathers included a lot of slave-owners.

But, no, no, let's not do that. We need the grade school version of George Washington, and we need the Anti-communist agit-prop version of Ho in order to really, really feel good about ourselves.

Why is it that I am not surprised you didn't get it? I actually feel sorry for you. But I'm sure it will pass soon.

 

[Trajan]

[

outlet for what?he never subjugated himself to anything, he found 'a home' in communism from the beginning... what he'd been practicing, training and striving for since 1920? in France? Or his training in Moscow in 22,23 and back again in 27? Or organizing the IPC in 1930?we should not be under the impression he just happened to go ahead and become communist in 44 or 45, or after Truman ignored Frances reinvestment in Vietnam after ww2. It was his life, literally and figuratively.

So?

At a time where the whole world had more or less concluded that some form of socialism was the future, he picked his brand. So what?

Oh, yeah. Communism is "eeeeeeeevil".

Point was, we could have come down on the side of the Vietnamese people or the French imperialists, and we picked the wrong side.

so?


so he was what he was, useful idiot bait aside that being his references to our declaration of Independence etc..



we picked the right side ala the Warsaw pact...and I am actually sorry for you if Communism is just an object of snark to you, it is evil, its a grinding form of humiliating dehumanization.

as for picking a side in Vietnam, it was a to an extent a pick your poison choice by that time, Ho a communist, Diem an oligarch. When we allowed Diem to be overthrown ( then assassinated) that ended any real hope of anything positive coming of it, vis a vis 'Vietnam' at all, not that I am totally convinced via hindsight that was ever possible.....

 

[Wyld Kard]

You're right..................America was designed by geniuses and is now being run by idiots.

Too bad so many of them are in the GOP.

Are you implying that the mess that our government is in currently is mostly because of the GOP?

Democraps are just as much to blame as well.

Actually, the mess that our government is in is mostly because of the fringe party of the GOP known as the Tea Party.

And the fact that Boehner is too much of a pussy to stand up to them, which is why he's going to lose his seat. As well as McConnell.

So in other words, it's "everyone else's fault",of why things are fucked up in government, or why something isn't right, or why something isn't working out.

After all, Democraps/Progressives and their supporters sure do love to play the "blame game", don't they?