ObamaCare's Looming Land Mine

[The Rabbi]

Your response is typical bullshit.
If someone has a relatively minor issue, not catastrophic, then he is screwed. He will be liable for the first $5k in bills in addition to spending money on premiums. And that is the case for most people. Most people do not contract dire illnesses requiring $1M or so.
The truth is over 90% of people were happy with their insurance prior to Obamacare.
the truth is also Obamacare ahs resulted in considerably higher premiums, higher costs, and fewer doctors than what we had.

How much will the uninsured person pay for the same minor issue? Less?

Please understand, Perry,Cain,Romney supporter.....INSURANCE PREMIUMS ARE NOT PAYING FOR HEALTH CARE.....they are paying for insurance against the costs of health care. Shit.....you act as though an uninsured person does not get a bill.

Fucking enough stupidity already!

The uninsured person and the insured person get the same bill.

The uninsured person adds it to the still relatively small tax they're paying for not having insurance.

The insured person adds it to the premiums they're already paying -- premiums which can be so onerous that they don't have enough money left over to be able to afford going to the doctor, whatever the deductible is.

Obamacare will result in many responsible citizens having less access to healthcare than they had last year when they still had affordable insurance.

Winner winner chicken dinner.
If the insured and the uninsured pay the same bill then why carry insurance at all? Just wait until you do get a catastrophic illness and sign up.
That's what has happened in MA with Romneycare.

 

[The Rabbi]

Yes.

OK. You win. It is horrible for the middle class.

You wore me own with stupid.

If you're worn own with stupid, it wasn't my doing.

I stated fact. You're too much of a hack to acknowledge that some people will be reluctant to seek needed care because they won't have enough money left in the bank to afford the deductible after the big bite their premiums already took out of their bank accounts.

Responsible people balanced the costs of their mortgages, car payments, tuition, insurance, etc. When their insurance costs are doubled that throws the rest out of whack and soaks up discretionary funds. Many people will not have enough left over to afford the out of pocket so they'll put off going to the doctor.

OK, you've owned LoneLaugher on this one. I give it a 9+.

 

[MeBelle]

But....I have heard of a max out of pocket......and it is to be 12,700 for a family plan under the ACA.

Don't forget to add in the amount of monthly premiums.

In many cases, there is still a co-pay after the deductible has been met.

Also, if the base deductible of $6,350 for each family member of four is met by only one member only that member will be in the 'clear'. If two family members meet the deductible then the entire family is in the 'clear'.

BUT what if each family member only met $6,000 of their deductible?

You are correct. Insurance is expensive. But having it....any of the plans that are compliant...will insure you against going bankrupt due to catastrophic illness. And all of the complaint plans encourage preventive care ( covered ) so that serious problems can be detected before they bankrupt you.

We all want insurance to be cheaper. Is that going to rest from this law? Hope so. But I know it was not getting cheaper for the last 20 years without the law.

Just for fun let's say each family member only met $6,000 of their deductible and paid an $800 a month premium (low ball in my opinion).
They are out over $33k for the year.
What did that $33K get them?
Some preventative care.

How long will this family be able to sustain $33K a year without going bankrupt?


Well hold the phone!
I just tried inputting ## to get a better idea of actual premiums and was met with this:

 

[LoneLaugher]

Don't forget to add in the amount of monthly premiums.

In many cases, there is still a co-pay after the deductible has been met.

Also, if the base deductible of $6,350 for each family member of four is met by only one member only that member will be in the 'clear'. If two family members meet the deductible then the entire family is in the 'clear'.

BUT what if each family member only met $6,000 of their deductible?

You are correct. Insurance is expensive. But having it....any of the plans that are compliant...will insure you against going bankrupt due to catastrophic illness. And all of the complaint plans encourage preventive care ( covered ) so that serious problems can be detected before they bankrupt you.

We all want insurance to be cheaper. Is that going to rest from this law? Hope so. But I know it was not getting cheaper for the last 20 years without the law.

Just for fun let's say each family member only met $6,000 of their deductible and paid an $800 a month premium (low ball in my opinion).
They are out over $33k for the year.
What did that $33K get them?
Some preventative care.

How long will this family be able to sustain $33K a year without going bankrupt?


Well hold the phone!
I just tried inputting ## to get a better idea of actual premiums and was met with this:

You have a lot of shit in that one.

First...the max out of pocket is $12,700 per family PLUS premiums. The average American family will qualify for subsidies....and in any case, the premiums cannot be more than 9.5% of AGI.

So...a family that has this worst case scenario......where everyone gets sick or injured just badly enough to meet the deductible........will not pay more than $12.700 plus 9.5% of their AGI.

what fun!

 

[Antares]

You are correct. Insurance is expensive. But having it....any of the plans that are compliant...will insure you against going bankrupt due to catastrophic illness. And all of the complaint plans encourage preventive care ( covered ) so that serious problems can be detected before they bankrupt you.

We all want insurance to be cheaper. Is that going to rest from this law? Hope so. But I know it was not getting cheaper for the last 20 years without the law.

Just for fun let's say each family member only met $6,000 of their deductible and paid an $800 a month premium (low ball in my opinion).
They are out over $33k for the year.
What did that $33K get them?
Some preventative care.

How long will this family be able to sustain $33K a year without going bankrupt?


Well hold the phone!
I just tried inputting ## to get a better idea of actual premiums and was met with this:

You have a lot of shit in that one.

First...the max out of pocket is $12,700 per family PLUS premiums. The average American family will qualify for subsidies....and in any case, the premiums cannot be more than 9.5% of AGI.

So...a family that has this worst case scenario......where everyone gets sick or injured just badly enough to meet the deductible........will not pay more than $12.700 plus 9.5% of their AGI.

what fun!

First...the max out of pocket is $12,700 per family PLUS premiums.

True.

The average American family will qualify for subsidies....

Interestingly, not always.
I have Doctor's with 6 kids making 80 grand getting a grand in subsidy...I have low income folks making less than 11500 getting nothing.

Now our State did not expand medicaid so that is part of it...but the subsidy part needs a serious tweaking.

 

[Antares]

ObamaCare's Looming Land Mine

Nup, it's not.

What did poor Jakey do now?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

lets see here for the board koolaid drinker ...
currant fuck me in ths ass plan $550.00month
$25.00 copay
$5000,00 deductible
if I come in the next day with something else wrong
$5000.00 deductible
$5000.00 every time I come in for something different

Thanks for showing everyone that you're a dumb fuck. That isn't how deductibles work, moron. Haven't you ever filed an insurance claim? Your deductible is for the entire year. I went to the emergency clinic 3 times this year. The co-pays for each time contributed to the amount of my deductible I had fulfilled. By the third time I had no more out-of-pocket expenses.

Liberals: Bringing new meaning to the concept "utterly clueless."

yes that's how my deductible worked dumb fuck for my currant plan... they specifically made sure that I understood that it wasn't for the whole year ... that they told me every time I applied for something in the same year, that was a different problem, I had to pay 5000 dollars up front dumb fuck ... not every body gets to suck off the corporate welfare tit like you do ...
t

That is some seriously shitty insurance!!

 

[Antares]

Knuckleheads.

Who pays the next dollar after the deductible is met? And the next. And the next.....and so on?

You dummies act like people will only get sick or injured....leading to thousands of dollars of medical bills....if they buy insurance under the ACA.

Your logic is flawed.

Apparently you have never heard of co-insurance, why does this not surprise me?

But....I have heard of a max out of pocket......and it is to be 12,700 for a family plan under the ACA.

And....you seem to be implying that paying 20 or 30% of the amount above the deductible and below that max is worse than paying 100% of it. You know, the amount you will pay if YOU DO NOT HAVE INSURANCE!

Not at all, your post was incorrect...and mentioned nothing of the stop loss number.

 

[MeBelle]

You are correct. Insurance is expensive. But having it....any of the plans that are compliant...will insure you against going bankrupt due to catastrophic illness. And all of the complaint plans encourage preventive care ( covered ) so that serious problems can be detected before they bankrupt you.

We all want insurance to be cheaper. Is that going to rest from this law? Hope so. But I know it was not getting cheaper for the last 20 years without the law.

Just for fun let's say each family member only met $6,000 of their deductible and paid an $800 a month premium (low ball in my opinion).
They are out over $33k for the year.
What did that $33K get them?
Some preventative care.

How long will this family be able to sustain $33K a year without going bankrupt?


Well hold the phone!
I just tried inputting ## to get a better idea of actual premiums and was met with this:

You have a lot of shit in that one.

First...the max out of pocket is $12,700 per family PLUS premiums. The average American family will qualify for subsidies....and in any case, the premiums cannot be more than 9.5% of AGI.

So...a family that has this worst case scenario......where everyone gets sick or injured just badly enough to meet the deductible........will not pay more than $12.700 plus 9.5% of their AGI.

what fun!

You're right...there is a lot of sh!t packed into that!
But it does raise a valid question, no?

Anyhow, check out Kaiser for my 'family of four'.

Health Insurance premium in 2014: $16,977 per year

You could receive a government tax credit subsidy of up to:$0 per year

Your out-of-pocket maximum for a Silver plan (not including the premium) can be no more than $12,700.

Amount you pay for the premium:$16,977 per year
(which equals 16.98% of your household income and covers 100% of the overall premium)

Could equal $29,677 per year before benefits kick in!

How long before an average family earning $100K a year (both parents working and the teenage kids have part time jobs) go bankrupt?

Shoot, just the $17K in premiums alone (after tax) without seeing a Doc for anything is WRONG! That's not 9.5% of their AGI.
The Kaiser subsidy tool doesn't ask for AGI, it asks for total household income.

How long before this family goes bankrupt just paying premiums?

 

[Sunshine]

Just for fun let's say each family member only met $6,000 of their deductible and paid an $800 a month premium (low ball in my opinion).
They are out over $33k for the year.
What did that $33K get them?
Some preventative care.

How long will this family be able to sustain $33K a year without going bankrupt?


Well hold the phone!
I just tried inputting ## to get a better idea of actual premiums and was met with this:

You have a lot of shit in that one.

First...the max out of pocket is $12,700 per family PLUS premiums. The average American family will qualify for subsidies....and in any case, the premiums cannot be more than 9.5% of AGI.

So...a family that has this worst case scenario......where everyone gets sick or injured just badly enough to meet the deductible........will not pay more than $12.700 plus 9.5% of their AGI.

what fun!

You're right...there is a lot of sh!t packed into that!
But it does raise a valid question, no?

Anyhow, check out Kaiser for my 'family of four'.

Health Insurance premium in 2014: $16,977 per year

You could receive a government tax credit subsidy of up to:$0 per year

Your out-of-pocket maximum for a Silver plan (not including the premium) can be no more than $12,700.

Amount you pay for the premium:$16,977 per year
(which equals 16.98% of your household income and covers 100% of the overall premium)

Could equal $29,677 per year before benefits kick in!

How long before an average family earning $100K a year (both parents working and the teenage kids have part time jobs) go bankrupt?

Shoot, just the $17K in premiums alone (after tax) without seeing a Doc for anything is WRONG! That's not 9.5% of their AGI.
The Kaiser subsidy tool doesn't ask for AGI, it asks for total household income.

How long before this family goes bankrupt just paying premiums?

I think it is cheaper to take your chances and pay the fine.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I answered your question.

No, you really didn't. But you did in another post. Except that answer turned out not to be true, I can't get info on plans without entering in my personal info first.

Take the name if the plan that you see on the healthcare.gov website and google it. The details will be there. It is an extra step......but not too daunting.

Well, that's just it. No plan names come up. If you click on the pic,below, it's easier to read. This is what comes up every time I try to get info from the site.

 

[LoneLaugher]

No, you really didn't. But you did in another post. Except that answer turned out not to be true, I can't get info on plans without entering in my personal info first.

Take the name if the plan that you see on the healthcare.gov website and google it. The details will be there. It is an extra step......but not too daunting.

Well, that's just it. No plan names come up. If you click on the pic,below, it's easier to read. This is what comes up every time I try to get info from the site.

Where are you?

 

[Antares]

What plan do you want to see?

 

[oreo]

Hell. The whole POS is a landmine.

When folks get a load of their deductables believe me, they will not be happy and the Dems will be kissing their asses goodby along with those cushy Govt jobs.

Bye Bye.

If high deductible policies were "sub standard" before Obamacare, what does that say about Obamacare policies, that people are forced to buy?
Obamacare is like the Producers of government programs. If you set out to draft the worst,most expensive, least efficient program you coudln't do worse than this. Then again, Dems did it so no surprise.

It's Obama's wealth redistribution program through Obamacare.

The have's having to pay for the have-not's. Unfortunately it's wealth redistribution that hits the middle class in this country right between the eyes.

Welcome to your hope and change

 

[Care4all]

I know precisely what I'm facing. I've known it since I received the September 26 letter from my health insurer. As to what I'm going to do? No clue. Either come up with an extra $800/month to maintain a similar level of coverage (ain't gonna happen), or accept a shit policy to keep the premiums at a manageable level. Either way I'm fucked.

An extra $800 to maintain a similar plan, huh? I guess that option was in the letter you received. Have you looked on the exchnge yet?

Many people can not as the website is still down.

Also the exchanges are not cheaper than what people had before they are more expensive on average. Thus, the promises of Obamacare are false. Anyone still believing in Obamacare might as well become a part of the truther movement.

they are not more expensive in my State compared to the Individual plan rate before the exchange....for my age $700 a month on the exchange, but it was $1000 a month before the exchange.

they are more expensive plans on the exchange, than group rate plans with employment....

I don't understand why the exchange insurers can't bring insurance prices down to group rate plan rates for the thousands buying insurance on the exchange? You'd think that they could be considered "a group" and get better rates for each plan?

 

[The Rabbi]

An extra $800 to maintain a similar plan, huh? I guess that option was in the letter you received. Have you looked on the exchnge yet?

Many people can not as the website is still down.

Also the exchanges are not cheaper than what people had before they are more expensive on average. Thus, the promises of Obamacare are false. Anyone still believing in Obamacare might as well become a part of the truther movement.

they are not more expensive in my State compared to the Individual plan rate before the exchange....for my age $700 a month on the exchange, but it was $1000 a month before the exchange.

they are more expensive plans on the exchange, than group rate plans with employment....

I don't understand why the exchange insurers can't bring insurance prices down to group rate plan rates for the thousands buying insurance on the exchange? You'd think that they could be considered "a group" and get better rates for each plan?

Because "the group" consists of older sicker people who are more likely to make claims on their policies. Where the heck have you been?

 

[billyerock1991]

Don't think this wasn't the intention from the beginning:

Articles: ObamaCare's Looming Land Mine

[...]

What is being overlooked is the new and higher deductibles and total annual out-of-pocket expenditures, especially in the Bronze and Silver plans. The amount of these greatly exceeds the ability of most individuals and families to pay, thus providing the real possibility of personal bankruptcies due to medical bills and high losses for providers who cannot collect.

[...]

So what will happen? The family, being responsible citizens, will initially try to pay the bills, but that will soon prove impossible. They will ultimately default. And in any case, they will most likely end any college planning or retirement savings they were working toward.

But -- and this is the big but -- the entity chasing them for the money is not the government. Rather, it is the provider -- the doctor, hospital, lab, radiologist, etc. This permits the government to stand on the sidelines and shrug at the dastardly situation that government itself caused in the first place.

Once enough patients face this crisis, the provider will be painted as the devil, hurting all these working Americans and their finances. First there will be restrictions on how much the provider can ultimately collect. Eventually, providers will be eating a large portion of any of the money they don't collect at the point of service.

The government will neatly sidestep the mess they've set up on purpose, will be able to demonize the providers (who end up not getting paid), and can step in to "save the day." And saving the day means taking over the now-bankrupt assets of the provider side of the health care delivery system. Bingo: a full single-payer and provider system, under government control, without even having to fire a shot.

[...]​

lets see here for the board koolaid drinker ...
currant fuck me in ths ass plan $550.00month
$25.00 copay
$5000,00 deductible
if I come in the next day with something else wrong
$5000.00 deductible
$5000.00 every time I come in for something different

OBAMA care(Affordable care Act)
silver plan
new plan $250.00 a month
$250. deductible max pay out $1200.00

save 300 dollar a month
total for a year $3600.00

so tell me dumb fuck again how obama Care (Affordable care Act) has higher deductibles and total annual out-of-pocket expenditures,in the bronze and silver plans we love to find out how you got so stupid

Take away the subsidy and what are the premiums, deductibles, oop expenses?

The only reason this plan is lower cost is because someone else is picking up the tab.

this is true some one else is picking up the tab ... the thing is its not thel tax payer ... that's fine with me ... Oops!!!!

 

[billyerock1991]

False. I can get tons of info on different products on the interwebs without entering in my personal info. You shouldn't have to 'apply' to find out what you're applying for. Oh wait, it's modeled after 'we have to pass the bill to see what's in it', isn't it?

You didn't answer my question so I take it, no you can't get real info on real plans without entering your personal info.

I answered your question.

No, you really didn't. But you did in another post. Except that answer turned out not to be true, I can't get info on plans without entering in my personal info first.

sorry we're not talking about ordering donuts ... we're talking about health care ... before obama care you could sign up for health care ... to find out what it was going to cost you, you had to give them personal information ...i wasn't talking about ordering pants or a shirt, all though you do have to give up your credit card information ... give me one example of these tons of things you can order with out giving personal information??? I love to hear this one...

 

[billyerock1991]

Thanks for showing everyone that you're a dumb fuck. That isn't how deductibles work, moron. Haven't you ever filed an insurance claim? Your deductive is for the entire year. I went to the emergency clinic 3 times this year. the co-pays for each time contributed to the amount of my deductible I had fulfilled. By the third time I had no more out-of-pocket expenses.

Liberals: Bringing new meaning to the concept "utterly clueless."

Stick to using the ER if you're going to use Aetna. You're no better off than an illegal alien with no insurance at all.

That's pure Obama fluffer horseshit.

Go back to sucking Obama's dick.

unlike you who has his lips wrapped around all those corporate welfare dicks ... are they tasty ???

 

[billyerock1991]

Why would I go to the website when my employer provides me with a very good Aetna policy? Even if I did go to the website, how does that square with Obama's promise that people who liked their policies could keep them?

BTW, you're in no position to be calling anyone a "dumbfuck."

Have you read your Aetna policy from front to back? They denied me a policy several years ago because I had three nasal allergy RX prescribed within an 8 year period, and their cap was two. So I actually complained all the way to Hartford, CT and talked to a VP. She confirmed that was their rule.

My neighbors have an Aetna policy. He was diagnosed with throat cancer but no docs in our area of NJ would take their insurance so they had to drive to Phila weekly for his treatments.

You have Aetna? Get the Vaseline out, honey. It's gonna' hurt and you won't be able to sit down for a lonnnnng time.

And? Many docs and hospitals are refusing to take patients who will have obamacare and those people will have to go elsewhere. Right now, many docs refuse to take medicaid insurance and those people have to go elsewhere, they have to go to whoever will take the insurance.

if that statement alone doesn't say uninformed dumb fuck I don't know what does ... hey dumb fuck there isn't a obama care program for health care ... people would have to go through Aetna, blue cross, blue sheild, or what ever private sector insurer you have selected ... you do make a fool of your self every time you post ... you tell us our deductibles will go up but you never been to the site ... then you tell us the cost will go up but you've never been to the site ... when are you going to stop making a first class fool of yourself ... tell us about those many doctor that refuse to take insurance money... I don't know of any ...