Official USMB Mafia Game #8: Gremlins, Goblins, and Ghouls! (Oh my!)

[Wolfsister77]

I don't particularly like her 948, and I'll explain as best I can why. What House did put the Town at risk, because the real JoaT, watching this unfold, may have felt the need to come out and counter, too. Thankfully that did not happen, but what would happen if it did? I can't say Shaitra's words here are suspicious, so I chalk it up to inexperience, which isn't inherently a bad thing. As for her 951, her misplaced paranoia feels to be coming from a Town mindset. Nowhere in the game did I ever PR hunt. The fact that Arden and House both claimed Jack of all Trades did, in fact, confuse me, and made me wonder what exactly was going on, and that someone between those two were lying. As it turns out, both were.

Finally, Hello, some common sense regarding the whole JoaT fiasco. That gambit was far too risky. Sure, it turned out well but that is pure luck that all the pieces fell the way they did. What if Arden would been telling the truth about being the JoaT? What if the real JoaT would of cc'd? What if the real JoaT would of slipped up during that time and subtly outed themselves in a way scum could spot? It put our PR at huge risk and put Town at risk. I really am not understanding all these words of praise for a move like that and I really hope no one does that again in a future games. I think, at the very least, more time should of been given to see if we could of gotten the votes on an Arden lynch. She only needed a couple more. A discussion would of been better. There was still time. And Arden's play was not ideal for the SK either because she basically didn't play, then did some moves that can only help scum who are supposed to be her enemies in this game by trying to out the town PR and wishing them luck. On top of that, House is now dead, because the real JoaT didn't even bother to protect him which would of really been the ideal play for Town right now and would of totally confused scum. Ugh........................the whole thing annoys me. That's probably coloring my posting in the game today. But at least I got to vent about it....................

 

[Wolfsister77]

And now I'm being called scummy for trying to get someone lynched who was lying and trying to out our PR and frankly, that sucks. Wake and I both handled that the way townies are supposed to handle it. And sorry Wake, no offense, but I'm being linked to you as scum because of that and because of the fight House and I had and the way you tried to mediate. It wasn't a fucking show. You guys have played with me long enough to know how I react to stuff like that. House called me an idiot, said I had my head up Avi's ass, called me his scumbuddy, and tried to replace and I get blamed and called scum because of MY reaction to it. That's BS.

WTF are you doing anyway trying to use associative tells between Wake and myself to call us the scumteam in this game?

There are 4 possibilities here: 1) We are the scumteam and we are playing really super obvious 2) We are both town 3) He's scum-buddying me 4) I'm scum buddying-him

Which is most likely without a flip of myself or Wake? Can you tell? No? Well, then why link us like that? Not only does it keep you from finding real scum but it is just making up stories and is worthless as analysis. Instead you should be looking for your most suspicious person, lynching them, if they flip scum, look for their interactions with every single person in the game to find their buddy. How would scum interact with their buddy in the game? Realistically? If you really think it's like Wake and myself have been, then I don't know what to tell you.

VENT OVER

 

[Grandma]

Yeah, Wolf, your gameplay sucks to high heaven. You're literally pulling "tells" out of your ass. As is Wake.

I especially like how you spent much of Day 1 raising hell with me because I downplayed the Vampire's importance, now you claim I was rolefishing.

Ladies and gentlemen, your Scum team is Wolfsister/Wake. Please sheep me now.

Unvote
Vote: Wolfsister

 

[Wolfsister77]

Yeah, Wolf, your gameplay sucks to high heaven. You're literally pulling "tells" out of your ass. As is Wake.

I especially like how you spent much of Day 1 raising hell with me because I downplayed the Vampire's importance, now you claim I was rolefishing.

Ladies and gentlemen, your Scum team is Wolfsister/Wake. Please sheep me now.

Unvote
Vote: Wolfsister

Nice OMGUS. All you are doing is insulting me and doing exactly what I just got done pointing out is wrong with linking myself and Wake but I doubt you even bothered to read it or you don't care. And you sure as hell didn't ask me what I meant by that rolefishing comment because it has nothing to do with your obsession with the vampire. It has to do with you highlighting possible PR crumbs and pointing them out to the rest of us which surely doesn't look town motivated to me.

Anyway, I'm done talking to you this game. You've effectively shut down communication.

I hate reactive play. It hurts town so you are either anti-town or scum and I am fine leaving my vote right where it is.

Have a nice rest of the day.

 

[Wolfsister77]

I read this in the Wiki a long time ago: Do not fool yourself into thinking you can call the scumteam, especially before anyone has flipped scum. Don't bother with trying to draw connections between players until one of them is dead. It's tempting! but futile.

 

[Grandma]

Nice OMGUS. All you are doing is insulting me and doing exactly what I just got done pointing out is wrong with linking myself and Wake but I doubt you even bothered to read it or you don't care. And you sure as hell didn't ask me what I meant by that rolefishing comment because it has nothing to do with your obsession with the vampire. It has to do with you highlighting possible PR crumbs and pointing them out to the rest of us which surely doesn't look town motivated to me.

Anyway, I'm done talking to you this game. You've effectively shut down communication.

I hate reactive play. It hurts town so you are either anti-town or scum and I am fine leaving my vote right where it is.

Have a nice rest of the day.

Your extreme overreaction is noted.

I haven't shut down communications. The fact is that you built some wild conspiracy theory around me. That's a scumtell as obvious as pushing an anvil off a 10th-story balcony.

 

[Grandma]

I read this in the Wiki a long time ago: Do not fool yourself into thinking you can call the scumteam, especially before anyone has flipped scum. Don't bother with trying to draw connections between players until one of them is dead. It's tempting! but futile.

An awful lot of what's on the Wiki pages is very outdated.

You and Wake are acting very scummy, and no one else is.

For example, Wake said the board was glitching when he saw Scarlet's posts.
Bullshit.
As long as he's been playing he should be able to spot a post restriction immediately.

 

[Wolfsister77]

Nice OMGUS. All you are doing is insulting me and doing exactly what I just got done pointing out is wrong with linking myself and Wake but I doubt you even bothered to read it or you don't care. And you sure as hell didn't ask me what I meant by that rolefishing comment because it has nothing to do with your obsession with the vampire. It has to do with you highlighting possible PR crumbs and pointing them out to the rest of us which surely doesn't look town motivated to me.

Anyway, I'm done talking to you this game. You've effectively shut down communication.

I hate reactive play. It hurts town so you are either anti-town or scum and I am fine leaving my vote right where it is.

Have a nice rest of the day.

Your extreme overreaction is noted.

I haven't shut down communications. The fact is that you built some wild conspiracy theory around me. That's a scumtell as obvious as pushing an anvil off a 10th-story balcony.

You are exaggerating and assigning untrue things to me. My reaction was not in the least bit an extreme over-reaction. It's a reaction. You are not used to be scrutinized and I can tell. No one likes it. I sure as hell don't but it happens to me in every single game I play. Your first reaction to being voted for/questioned is to insult me and then your next reaction is to lie. That was not what I was looking for to unvote you and move on.

If you think paranoia is a scum-tell, you couldn't be more wrong. Town is often extremely paranoid in these games. I'm as town as they come and I haven't been acting any different than I ever do as town. Keep lying about me. Keep pulling tells out of thin air and assigning them to me as scumtells when they are not. It continues to make you look like scum. A better reaction would of been to try to engage me in conversation. But you didn't. That's unfortunate but it means I'm voteparked on you until I see some else do something scummier.

 

[Wolfsister77]

I read this in the Wiki a long time ago: Do not fool yourself into thinking you can call the scumteam, especially before anyone has flipped scum. Don't bother with trying to draw connections between players until one of them is dead. It's tempting! but futile.

An awful lot of what's on the Wiki pages is very outdated.

You and Wake are acting very scummy, and no one else is.

For example, Wake said the board was glitching when he saw Scarlet's posts.
Bullshit.
As long as he's been playing he should be able to spot a post restriction immediately.

I thought it was a board glitch also. Then I thought SR had done something and gotten in trouble with the mods. I didn't figure out it was due to the game until later. Same with Cafe. I got on her about fluff posting before I realized she had no choice.

How on Earth is this a scumtell?

No one else is acting scummy? Then why in the hell did you vote for FA? For fun?

And no, that section from the Wiki is dead on correct. Associative tells used to determine the scumteam without a scum flip are very often wrong. Many times it is two town or scum-buddying a townie maybe. Scum are not going to be so obvious that they would appear to be working together so out in the open. There are other clues to look for that are far more subtle or maybe even obvious in some cases like hard-bussing when your buddy is about to be lynched for town cred. That's why VCA and wagon analysis is more often useful after a flip.

Also, I have been active and as often happens in these games, the most active players are called scummy for very bad reasons while the real scum hide in the background and watch while town fights. The problem I'm having with you is I haven't figured out your alignment yet or why you are going after me for doing nothing more than suspecting you.

That defensive reaction is one I'm trying to figure out if it is coming from town or scum as I can be highly defensive as town also. It would be helpful if others would post more. I can't read people that barely post and don't say much when they do.

 

[Avatar4321]

I'm leaning town on wolf. My only other huge town read was house.

i haven't decided on the rest yet.

 

[Grandma]

I voted for FA because he wasn't posting.

Then he made a very good post. Good enough to move from leaning scum to null.

 

[Wake]

For example, Wake said the board was glitching when he saw Scarlet's posts.
Bullshit.
As long as he's been playing he should be able to spot a post restriction immediately.

Frankly, I've experienced various glitches and problems with the new software, mainly while modding Mafia games. When Scarlet was copying everyone's posts, I was confused, and figured it was a glitch. There was no way for me to expect there were post restrictions, because I was basing my gameplay assumptions on the Setup posted in the OP, and only when I was PM'd my ability during Day 1 did I see the possibility of there being post restrictions. In fact, it was only then that I read backwards and noticed that more than 2 players were dealing with Halloween mischief during Day 1. My friend, that is not Scummy. That is being an easily-confused, fallible human being.

 

[Grandma]

For example, Wake said the board was glitching when he saw Scarlet's posts.
Bullshit.
As long as he's been playing he should be able to spot a post restriction immediately.

Frankly, I've experienced various glitches and problems with the new software, mainly while modding Mafia games. When Scarlet was copying everyone's posts, I was confused, and figured it was a glitch. There was no way for me to expect there were post restrictions, because I was basing my gameplay assumptions on the Setup posted in the OP, and only when I was PM'd my ability during Day 1 did I see the possibility of there being post restrictions. In fact, it was only then that I read backwards and noticed that more than 2 players were dealing with Halloween mischief during Day 1. My friend, that is not Scummy. That is being an easily-confused, fallible human being.

Sorry, not buying.
The new software fucks up for me too.
That only Scarlet's posts were like that, and that her posts were like that after Cafe's restriction was figured out should have clued everyone in.

 

[Wake]

Sorry, not buying.
The new software fucks up for me too.
That only Scarlet's posts were like that, and that her posts were like that after Cafe's restriction was figured out should have clued everyone in.

I did not notice it. For much of this week and last I've been very pressed, and haven't, until very recently, been able to put some energy into the game to read posts and provide reads.

 

[Shaitra]

And now I'm being called scummy for trying to get someone lynched who was lying and trying to out our PR and frankly, that sucks. Wake and I both handled that the way townies are supposed to handle it. And sorry Wake, no offense, but I'm being linked to you as scum because of that and because of the fight House and I had and the way you tried to mediate. It wasn't a fucking show. You guys have played with me long enough to know how I react to stuff like that. House called me an idiot, said I had my head up Avi's ass, called me his scumbuddy, and tried to replace and I get blamed and called scum because of MY reaction to it. That's BS.

WTF are you doing anyway trying to use associative tells between Wake and myself to call us the scumteam in this game?

There are 4 possibilities here: 1) We are the scumteam and we are playing really super obvious 2) We are both town 3) He's scum-buddying me 4) I'm scum buddying-him

Which is most likely without a flip of myself or Wake? Can you tell? No? Well, then why link us like that? Not only does it keep you from finding real scum but it is just making up stories and is worthless as analysis. Instead you should be looking for your most suspicious person, lynching them, if they flip scum, look for their interactions with every single person in the game to find their buddy. How would scum interact with their buddy in the game? Realistically? If you really think it's like Wake and myself have been, then I don't know what to tell you.

VENT OVER

I have problems with the bolded. I disagree that there is any specific way that things should be handled.

 

[Shaitra]

I just read Grandma's ISO and she is giving reads and commenting on stuff that is happening in the game. I'm not seeing your concern over lack of content Wolf. I do see that she is/was scum reading you quite a bit so are you sure that's not affecting your read of her?

She never voted for me though. And what kind of content is she providing?

She is providing reads on people and responding to others. Maybe we have different ideas of what content is.

 

[Shaitra]

Shaitra​

Nothing can be gleaned from her 140. 142 isn't suspicious, but general. 145 is null. 146 she mentions she doesn't like Arden's posts at all. Though Arden did flip Serial Killer, her feeling at this point in no way vindicated her as Town. 146 does feel playful to me, and didn't really make me feel she was Town or Scum with her response. Why at this point she's leaning Town according to Wolfie does make me wonder, but perhaps that is simply misplaced paranoia. She did in 287 go along with the Doctor/Psyche declarations which, while easy to fake, don't make me suspect her at the moment.

366 I haven't found anything suspicious with. She was right about Arden, but I haven't had the time into researching why she has her suspicions about Avatar. In 702 Shaitra mentions why she's been inactive, so that brings a whole new light to the situation (I am sorry you and your husband got laid off. I can't even try to imagine how that must feel. ). The pictures in 707 and 710 do nothing to move my current read on her. Same with 748, though it seems her feelings on Arden were correct. I can't really collect any information from 907.

I don't particularly like her 948, and I'll explain as best I can why. What House did put the Town at risk, because the real JoaT, watching this unfold, may have felt the need to come out and counter, too. Thankfully that did not happen, but what would happen if it did? I can't say Shaitra's words here are suspicious, so I chalk it up to inexperience, which isn't inherently a bad thing. As for her 951, her misplaced paranoia feels to be coming from a Town mindset. Nowhere in the game did I ever PR hunt. The fact that Arden and House both claimed Jack of all Trades did, in fact, confuse me, and made me wonder what exactly was going on, and that someone between those two were lying. As it turns out, both were. 952 reads as null.

975 does come off as Townish, if only slightly. Though Shaitra hasn't contributed much, and does have good reason why, when she does post it has almost always been from a mindset of wanting answers.

So, how do I judge her alignment thus far? She hasn't posted much, but as we know content is never, ever indicative of one's alignment. It doesn't feel, at least to me, that she's been defensive, evasive, hyperbolic, or not forthcoming. In fact, when she does post, when it's not fluff it's contributory, with some undertones of paranoia and curiosity. I don't feel she's been questioned nearly enough, and I do feel there's a need to gauge her responses under pressure, to really ascertain how she'll react. Tentatively I have Shaitra as Leaning-Town, and am thus currently uncomfortable with placing a vote on her. I can understand life being tough right now for her. If she can provide a reads list or take a few more inquisitive pokes at those players she hasn't really conversed with then I think we'll benefit from it unilaterally (unless you're Scum, of course). I'm awaiting more from her, and, should she continue to give off Townvibes, I am certainly willing to work with her more in the future of this game.

So what do you want to know Wake?

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

VOTE COUNT 2.1​

Wake (2): CafeAuLait, FA_Q2
Grandma (1): Wolfsister77
Wolfsister77 (1): Grandma

Not Voting: Shaitra, Moonglow, Avatar4321, Wake, ScarletRage

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!
Deadline is 11/11/14, @ 8PM central.

ScarletRage - V/LA from 11/5 to 11/10

"You can have all the facts in front of you and still not know the truth." me (Yes, really, me.)

Vote Counts
1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5​

 

[Wolfsister77]

And now I'm being called scummy for trying to get someone lynched who was lying and trying to out our PR and frankly, that sucks. Wake and I both handled that the way townies are supposed to handle it. And sorry Wake, no offense, but I'm being linked to you as scum because of that and because of the fight House and I had and the way you tried to mediate. It wasn't a fucking show. You guys have played with me long enough to know how I react to stuff like that. House called me an idiot, said I had my head up Avi's ass, called me his scumbuddy, and tried to replace and I get blamed and called scum because of MY reaction to it. That's BS.

WTF are you doing anyway trying to use associative tells between Wake and myself to call us the scumteam in this game?

There are 4 possibilities here: 1) We are the scumteam and we are playing really super obvious 2) We are both town 3) He's scum-buddying me 4) I'm scum buddying-him

Which is most likely without a flip of myself or Wake? Can you tell? No? Well, then why link us like that? Not only does it keep you from finding real scum but it is just making up stories and is worthless as analysis. Instead you should be looking for your most suspicious person, lynching them, if they flip scum, look for their interactions with every single person in the game to find their buddy. How would scum interact with their buddy in the game? Realistically? If you really think it's like Wake and myself have been, then I don't know what to tell you.

VENT OVER

I have problems with the bolded. I disagree that there is any specific way that things should be handled.

OK, So what is your opinion of how I handled it? Forget Wake. Just look at how I handled it. I'm being told it is scummy but not why it is scummy. Arden wasn't town. She was trying to out the PR. There was a cc. How would you have handled it? Why do you have a problem with what I said about it?

 

[Wolfsister77]

I just read Grandma's ISO and she is giving reads and commenting on stuff that is happening in the game. I'm not seeing your concern over lack of content Wolf. I do see that she is/was scum reading you quite a bit so are you sure that's not affecting your read of her?

She never voted for me though. And what kind of content is she providing?

She is providing reads on people and responding to others. Maybe we have different ideas of what content is.

Do you have any reads? Any scum suspects?