Official USMB What is a Wall? Why a Wall?

[Correll]

Sooooooo, the real reason why Trump NEEDS a wall to be built, is NOT because of a made-up "national crisis"........but simply, to keep his fat ass out of bankruptcies, shame and even possibly out of prison.

Trump needs a second term to allow the statute of limitations to expire on some of his alleged criminal activities; there is no crisis on the US southern border, but there is a serious crisis in the White House.

A concrete cocoon for Don I could get behind. I would gladly fund it myself.

Are we paying enough attention to the crimes that could encase Trump in that concrete cocoon?

Confronting the Cost of Trump's Corruption to American Families - Center for American Progress

"One of the few constants throughout the Donald J. Trump administration has been corruption. Since his first day as president, when Trump took the wholly unprecedented step of refusing to divest1 from his private businesses, his administration has been characterized by an unending effort by him, his family, and his senior advisers to abuse their political power for personal gain.

"Of course, those efforts started long before Trump was elected; in just one example, Trump had the federal government pay him more than $1.5 million2 for the Secret Services’ use of his private plane during the campaign.

"These efforts to enrich himself and those around him continued through the inauguration, in which Trump abandoned past practice to allow for unlimited donations from wealthy individuals and corporations so he could raise record sums—reportedly more than $107 million.

"He then used that money to help his friends, including paying a company owned by Melania Trump’s friend and senior advisor, $26 million3 to help plan the event. To this day, some of the money raised still has not been accounted4 for."

It is very dishonest of the article to omit that "past practice" was to limit contributions in order to get matching funds. and that Trump gave up those matching funds,

and that he was far from the first to do so.

Trump is the first POTUS to pimp for his DC hotel:

Confronting the Cost of Trump's Corruption to American Families - Center for American Progress

"In one near-constant reminder of Trump’s flouting of ethical requirements, he has maintained ownership of a downtown Washington, D.C., hotel that he rents from the government, effectively acting as both tenant and landlord.5

"The hotel has become a hot spot6 for foreign dignitaries seeking to win favor with the new administration.

"And Trump uses the government to promote his properties,7 including his Mar-a-Lago resort where membership fees doubled8 to $200,000 one year after he won the presidency, giving members the chance to potentially influence the president for the cost of a membership.9"

Interesting. YOu made a number of points, and I addressed one of them.


Your "response" was to repeat one of your other charges.


That's not what a serious person would do . That is what a partisan troll would do.


Are you a troll, or just not intelligent enough to respond appropriately?

 

[nat4900]

The powers that be, don;t like too much ridiculing of Trump's imbecilities.....and, with the help of some of the usual Trump cult members some threads get "closed".....

So, honoring the FIRST Amendment.......

When.....if ever......will Trump sycophants regain some semblance of sanity?

Dept. of Homeland Security testing of a steel slat prototype for border wall proved it could be cut through with a saw, according to a report by DHS. A photo obtained by @NBCNewsshows the results of the test. https://nbcnews.to/2AE45mG

 

[Valerie]

while giving lip service to "NATIONAL SECURITY" our so-called president continues to threaten our national security.




this, according to our uniquely QUALIFIED intelligence agencies sworn to protect and defend out national security:



FBI Agents Say Shutdown Threatens National Security - The Atlantic

 

[Valerie]

to those who ask "why aren't the Dems listening to our border patrol agents?" derrrrp


BECAUSE they are listening to facts, science...................

and QUALIFIED NATIONAL SECURITY EXPERTS!

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

to those who ask "why aren't the Dems listening to our border patrol agents?" derrrrp


BECAUSE they are listening to facts, science, and NATIONAL SECURITY EXPERTS.

Wouldn't bp agents be FACT witnesses?

Who is not listening?

 

[Valerie]

READ AND LEARN or shut your dumbo trap



The Wall: The real costs of a barrier between the United States and Mexico

Why the Wall Won't Work

 

[Valerie]

Trump is creating a 'crisis' to distract from the real crisis of a flailing president

Trump’s border wall address was so lame, was it in fact a distraction?

 

[Slade3200]

If Trump was interested in unity rather than a divisive fight then he could have gotten the wall by focusing on the shining gates. If it wasn’t a “keep out” brand and if it was more of a Statue of Liberty brand then many more liberals would be supportive.

The Goal is a policy the protects and advances American interests.


If one side of the political divide is against that, then "Unity" would be a bad thing, as we have to compromise with people who want policies that are bad for America.

If the goal is to improve border security then you need unity and collaboration to get there. When you demonize the people you need to get legislation passed and when you brand your campaign in a way that goes against your political opponents values then you aren’t going to get anywhere.

you just described Pelosi and Schumer.

Agreed both sides are guilty of the same tactics. Both are responsible. I place more responsibility on the president to set the tone.

The dems are constant in their methods.


Remember when McCain ran? How they turned on him on a dime?

Yes, the partisan team players fight hard for their team and it is destructive especially when they get off the substance and start lying and hyperbolizing everything. The Dems are brutal and play the race card, woman card, minority card etc way too much. The Right likes to jump right to Venezuela and socialism and open borders with everything. At some point we all need to grow the hell up and debate issues honestly.

 

[Stormy Daniels]

Wrong, shit for brains. Those are the facts.

Brilliantly persuasive arguments like this are what makes you a valued contributor here at usmessageboard.

 

[Valerie]

The first misleading statement in President Trump’s Oval Office address Tuesday night came in the first sentence.


Trump, addressing a national television audience from behind his desk, warned of a “security crisis at the southern border” — even though the number of people caught trying to cross illegally is near 20-year lows.

Another false claim came moments later, when Trump said border agents “encounter thousands of illegal immigrants trying to enter our country” every day, though his administration puts the daily average for 2018 in the hundreds. A few sentences later, he said 90 percent of the heroin in the United States comes across the border with Mexico, ignoring the fact that most of the drugs come through legal entry points and wouldn’t be stopped by the border wall that he is demanding...


Analysis | Fact-checking President Trump’s Oval Office address on immigration

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, conservative politicians have been getting illegal immigration and drugs mixed up with each other for a long time now. I guess they think that scare tactics work.

Only problem is.................the drugs aren't coming in on the backs of migrants traveling up from Central America, they are being shipped via ports of entry into the US in either trucks or cars, and the person doing the smuggling is a PAID MULE, who the cartels also know who their family is, so that if a shipment comes up missing, they can go after the person and their family. They aren't going to trust their product to someone they don't know anything about. A kilo of cocaine is a lot of money, so is a kilo of heroin. They aren't going to trust their shipments to migrants.

It's amazing how people can confuse things.

 

[H B Lowrie]

You know, conservative politicians have been getting illegal immigration and drugs mixed up with each other for a long time now. I guess they think that scare tactics work.

Only problem is.................the drugs aren't coming in on the backs of migrants traveling up from Central America, they are being shipped via ports of entry into the US in either trucks or cars, and the person doing the smuggling is a PAID MULE, who the cartels also know who their family is, so that if a shipment comes up missing, they can go after the person and their family. They aren't going to trust their product to someone they don't know anything about. A kilo of cocaine is a lot of money, so is a kilo of heroin. They aren't going to trust their shipments to migrants.

It's amazing how people can confuse things.

Fear has always worked in america, most especially stoking the fears inherently socialized into white americans of the "others". Still works like a charm.

 

[Correll]

The Goal is a policy the protects and advances American interests.


If one side of the political divide is against that, then "Unity" would be a bad thing, as we have to compromise with people who want policies that are bad for America.

If the goal is to improve border security then you need unity and collaboration to get there. When you demonize the people you need to get legislation passed and when you brand your campaign in a way that goes against your political opponents values then you aren’t going to get anywhere.

you just described Pelosi and Schumer.

Agreed both sides are guilty of the same tactics. Both are responsible. I place more responsibility on the president to set the tone.

The dems are constant in their methods.


Remember when McCain ran? How they turned on him on a dime?

Yes, the partisan team players fight hard for their team and it is destructive especially when they get off the substance and start lying and hyperbolizing everything. The Dems are brutal and play the race card, woman card, minority card etc way too much. The Right likes to jump right to Venezuela and socialism and open borders with everything. At some point we all need to grow the hell up and debate issues honestly.

We have tens of millions of illegals living in this country.


If we do not have an "open border" it is close enough that quibbling over semantics is not what we should be wasting time on.


BUILD THE WALL, DEPORT THE ILLEGALS, FUCK THE EMPLOYERS, AND LET'S LIMIT THE DAMAGE TO THE NATION AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.


Which probably isn't much.

 

[JBvM]

There are 700 miles of walls and fences that were just finished on the Southern border, from the 2007 secure border act immigration bill...., put up in the exact places that Border Patrol felt they were needed, also the Secure Act more than doubled the size of border and immigration officers for border patrol and ICE, going to over a 40,000 person force vs the 20,000 combined force just 10 years earlier, they also added radio fences, lighting, motion detectors and drones, which border patrol wants more....

we have reduced illegal crossings from a high of 1,600,000 apprehensions a year down to about 300,000 a year, with these new walls and fences and added technology and added work force in the most strategic regions.

Some fence repairs and even some added fence in areas that border patrol still feels are needed based on their apprehension numbers should be built.... but there is still1000 miles of the border near no towns or roads, or 100 miles in to a dessert or with 10000 ft mountains where a wall is cost prohibitive, and or the number of people trying to cross in those remote areas are near nil... and it would be a waste of tax payer money to build a wall that costs $25 million dollars a single MILE of wall.

Why dont you expla8n that to those murdered and raped by illegals or those who family members who died due to overdoses or drug violence

I would gladly do that. The illegals have almost nothing to do with illegal drugs. That is on those who choose to engage in the act.

And the cartels are willing to kill thousands to get those drugs across the border.

The drugs are not coming across the border on foot in the middle of no where...

as said before, most illegal drugs are coming in through our legal border crossings, in hidden compartments in cars and hidden in Truck shipments of legal goods...

And they are mostly coming in through our ports, and the opiods from China are coming in through the US MAIL.

we need the money to supply more scanners to those legal port of entries....

and maybe even for tunnel detecting technology.... having the 700 miles of walls already built has only led to tunnels by the traffickers being built under them.... and drones being used to get them over the walls....

this whole issue, (as an old friend Boss/Dixie used to say) is deeper than (pie) pastry!

So your saying all those pictures and videos on larado Bordertown are fake

The Truth About Iconic 2003 Saddam Statue-Toppling - The Atlantic

beware

 

[Slade3200]

If the goal is to improve border security then you need unity and collaboration to get there. When you demonize the people you need to get legislation passed and when you brand your campaign in a way that goes against your political opponents values then you aren’t going to get anywhere.

you just described Pelosi and Schumer.

Agreed both sides are guilty of the same tactics. Both are responsible. I place more responsibility on the president to set the tone.

The dems are constant in their methods.


Remember when McCain ran? How they turned on him on a dime?

Yes, the partisan team players fight hard for their team and it is destructive especially when they get off the substance and start lying and hyperbolizing everything. The Dems are brutal and play the race card, woman card, minority card etc way too much. The Right likes to jump right to Venezuela and socialism and open borders with everything. At some point we all need to grow the hell up and debate issues honestly.

We have tens of millions of illegals living in this country.


If we do not have an "open border" it is close enough that quibbling over semantics is not what we should be wasting time on.


BUILD THE WALL, DEPORT THE ILLEGALS, FUCK THE EMPLOYERS, AND LET'S LIMIT THE DAMAGE TO THE NATION AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.


Which probably isn't much.

Do you know how many people cross the border through ground, air and sea every day? You gotta look at the big picture and how many people do cross to come here for both travel and for work. Consider all it takes to process that. We spend a ton of resources to manage that extraordinary amount of traffic to make our country as safe as possible. Yes we can do better. But No, we do not have open borders, not even close.

 

[Correll]

you just described Pelosi and Schumer.

Agreed both sides are guilty of the same tactics. Both are responsible. I place more responsibility on the president to set the tone.

The dems are constant in their methods.


Remember when McCain ran? How they turned on him on a dime?

Yes, the partisan team players fight hard for their team and it is destructive especially when they get off the substance and start lying and hyperbolizing everything. The Dems are brutal and play the race card, woman card, minority card etc way too much. The Right likes to jump right to Venezuela and socialism and open borders with everything. At some point we all need to grow the hell up and debate issues honestly.

We have tens of millions of illegals living in this country.


If we do not have an "open border" it is close enough that quibbling over semantics is not what we should be wasting time on.


BUILD THE WALL, DEPORT THE ILLEGALS, FUCK THE EMPLOYERS, AND LET'S LIMIT THE DAMAGE TO THE NATION AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.


Which probably isn't much.

Do you know how many people cross the border through ground, air and sea every day? You gotta look at the big picture and how many people do cross to come here for both travel and for work. Consider all it takes to process that. We spend a ton of resources to manage that extraordinary amount of traffic to make our country as safe as possible. Yes we can do better. But No, we do not have open borders, not even close.

The Big Picture is the tens of millions of people have entered our country, either illegally, or legally and then overstayed.


That is a huge problem, and a violation of the rights of Americans to decide who to invite to join our community.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Interestingly enough, out of the over 3,700 people who entered this country and were on a terrorist watch list, only 12 of them crossed the southern border. The rest came in via aircraft or ships, and did it on LEGAL visas.

As far as the drugs coming into this country from Mexico? You DO realize that they are shipped via regular ports of entry, and come here in trucks or cars that are driven by people hired to transport it (drug mules), and the cartel not only knows who the mule is, but they also know who the family members of the mule are, so that if a shipment comes up missing, they know who to go after. There is no way in hell that a cartel is going to get migrants coming up from Central America to carry their product, because they know nothing about them, nor do they have any leverage against them in case the drugs don't make it to their destination. Never mind the fact that most of them don't speak English, nor do they know much about where places are in this country.

And no..................Fentanyl isn't coming from the cartels in Mexico. Fentanyl is made in China, and comes here via ships or planes, and sometimes, even through the mail.

 

[Slade3200]

Agreed both sides are guilty of the same tactics. Both are responsible. I place more responsibility on the president to set the tone.

The dems are constant in their methods.


Remember when McCain ran? How they turned on him on a dime?

Yes, the partisan team players fight hard for their team and it is destructive especially when they get off the substance and start lying and hyperbolizing everything. The Dems are brutal and play the race card, woman card, minority card etc way too much. The Right likes to jump right to Venezuela and socialism and open borders with everything. At some point we all need to grow the hell up and debate issues honestly.

We have tens of millions of illegals living in this country.


If we do not have an "open border" it is close enough that quibbling over semantics is not what we should be wasting time on.


BUILD THE WALL, DEPORT THE ILLEGALS, FUCK THE EMPLOYERS, AND LET'S LIMIT THE DAMAGE TO THE NATION AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.


Which probably isn't much.

Do you know how many people cross the border through ground, air and sea every day? You gotta look at the big picture and how many people do cross to come here for both travel and for work. Consider all it takes to process that. We spend a ton of resources to manage that extraordinary amount of traffic to make our country as safe as possible. Yes we can do better. But No, we do not have open borders, not even close.

The Big Picture is the tens of millions of people have entered our country, either illegally, or legally and then overstayed.


That is a huge problem, and a violation of the rights of Americans to decide who to invite to join our community.

Agreed. I’ve never denied that. But we don’t have open borders, not even close. And we obviously have different policy ideas on how to best address the problem as do all the clowns in Washington. I’m curious though, why is the majority of your focus on the Wall, when the majority of drugs and illegals are coming in through ports of entry? That’s where you lose me with your argument.

 

[Hossfly]

Why dont you expla8n that to those murdered and raped by illegals or those who family members who died due to overdoses or drug violence

I would gladly do that. The illegals have almost nothing to do with illegal drugs. That is on those who choose to engage in the act.

And the cartels are willing to kill thousands to get those drugs across the border.

The drugs are not coming across the border on foot in the middle of no where...

as said before, most illegal drugs are coming in through our legal border crossings, in hidden compartments in cars and hidden in Truck shipments of legal goods...

And they are mostly coming in through our ports, and the opiods from China are coming in through the US MAIL.

we need the money to supply more scanners to those legal port of entries....

and maybe even for tunnel detecting technology.... having the 700 miles of walls already built has only led to tunnels by the traffickers being built under them.... and drones being used to get them over the walls....

this whole issue, (as an old friend Boss/Dixie used to say) is deeper than (pie) pastry!

So your saying all those pictures and videos on larado Bordertown are fake

The Truth About Iconic 2003 Saddam Statue-Toppling - The Atlantic

beware

The truth about photo shoots is that many times in combat an activity is recreated for publicity purposes. When the flag was raised atop Mount Surabachi on Iwo Jima, Marines were getting shot and wounded or killed. Plus, the flag was too small to be seen at the end of the island and the ships at anchor. After the shooting died down a second flag was raised and the photo became famous around the world and was the basis for the Marine Corps Memorial in Arlington.

Here's the photos and the article.

Raising the 1st flag under enemy fire

The 2nd flag-raising atop Mt. Suribachi
Feb. 23, 1945


Raising the Flag Over Iwo Jima, 1945

 

[Correll]

The dems are constant in their methods.


Remember when McCain ran? How they turned on him on a dime?

Yes, the partisan team players fight hard for their team and it is destructive especially when they get off the substance and start lying and hyperbolizing everything. The Dems are brutal and play the race card, woman card, minority card etc way too much. The Right likes to jump right to Venezuela and socialism and open borders with everything. At some point we all need to grow the hell up and debate issues honestly.

We have tens of millions of illegals living in this country.


If we do not have an "open border" it is close enough that quibbling over semantics is not what we should be wasting time on.


BUILD THE WALL, DEPORT THE ILLEGALS, FUCK THE EMPLOYERS, AND LET'S LIMIT THE DAMAGE TO THE NATION AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.


Which probably isn't much.

Do you know how many people cross the border through ground, air and sea every day? You gotta look at the big picture and how many people do cross to come here for both travel and for work. Consider all it takes to process that. We spend a ton of resources to manage that extraordinary amount of traffic to make our country as safe as possible. Yes we can do better. But No, we do not have open borders, not even close.

The Big Picture is the tens of millions of people have entered our country, either illegally, or legally and then overstayed.


That is a huge problem, and a violation of the rights of Americans to decide who to invite to join our community.

Agreed. I’ve never denied that. But we don’t have open borders, not even close. And we obviously have different policy ideas on how to beat address the problem as do all the clowns in Washington. I’m curious though, why is the majority of your focus on the Wall, when the majority of drugs and illegals are coming in through ports of entry? That’s where you lose me with your argument.

If you agree it is a huge problem, and a violation of the rights of Americans to decide who to invite to join our society,


then any disagreement you have about "open border" is a matter of minor semantics.


My "focus" is on the Wall, for that is the current issue of discussion.


Be assured that Trump will not be judged solely on whether or not the Wall is built, but on the overall effect his administration has on the horrific immigration situation.