Okay, so who's right?

[JakeStarkey]

Tehon and Redfish and Skull Pilot write as if they are disinfo agents for Russia.

They are not smart enough to be hired as such, based on what they have written above.

We have all seen Putin and Russia in action for a long time, engaged in protecting its own borders and trying to dominate their neighbors.

The goals are obvious.

(1) Recreation of the old USSR

(2) Dominating the Dardanelles

Any American candidate who is making eyes at Putin is dangerous.

Any attempt to say it is innocent or not dangerous to America is propaganda of the worst sort.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes, Trump meets the definition of a demagogue.

 

[Redfish]

Stupid comment: "Obammy and all the dims laughed when Romney said Russia was a danger " Who said that Russia was not a danger? Russia has been a danger for longer than some of us have been alive.

Any who dismiss Putin as harmless and any who dismiss Russia as not a danger, such as Skull Pilot and Tehon, are mentally malignant, or emotionally disadvantaged, or woefully uneducated, or any or a combination of all three.

I'm not so emotionally unstable as to give in to the politics of fear like you and so many others do. As you have have pointed out the politics of fear has been going on for quite some time now yet the rubes haven't caught on yet.

Most People Today Want to be Propagandized
There’s a principle in hypnotism that goes like this: A person cannot be hypnotized against his will. He must be a willing subject. He must be fully cooperative.

So it goes with propaganda. For propaganda to be effective, it requires submissive subjects. As Professor Nicholas O’Shaughnessy wrote, propaganda is a “co-production in which we are willing participants.”........

The reason they are successful, I fear, is that most people today want to be propagandized—though they would never admit it. Most people want to be given ideological marching orders and talking points from an authority. Most people have zero interest, and see little value, in engaging with arguments put forward by those who hold differing positions, unless it’s to ridicule them. Most people want to simply choose the news media organizations that best fit with their selected ideological camps and immerse themselves in their informational streams.

there is certainly some truth to that, but it seems much more prevalent on the left than on the right. How else can support of Hillary Clinton be explained? A proven liar, a proven criminal, a proven thief, a proven incompetent, and now a proven mentally and physically sick human being. Other than propaganda, how can anyone support such a defective human being?

I have seen an awakening of sorts on the right but it doesn't appear to be a full realization of reality. The right has just glommed onto a new authority figure who appears to be nothing more than a demagogue.

demagogue? how is a successful businessman, who is not a politician, doesn't need the job, and is using a lot of his own money a demagogue? Were Washington and Lincoln demagogues?

Maybe you don't like the media created persona of Trump, that's fine. But he is exactly what this country needs right now. Someone who owes no favors to special interests or foreign power brokers and who can do what is needed without fear of blackmail.

Hillary can be blackmailed by any number of groups, including the Saudis, Soros, China, and every hacker in the world who has her "lost" emails.

Yes.....a demagogue.

A demagogue /ˈdɛməɡɒɡ/ (from Greek δημαγωγός, a popular leader, a leader of the mob, from δῆμος, people, populace, the commons + ἀγωγός leading, leader)[1] or rabble-rouser is a leader in a democracy who gains popularity by exploiting prejudice and ignorance among the common people, whipping up the passions of the crowd and shutting down reasoned deliberation.[1][2][3][4] Demagogues have usually advocated immediate, violent action to address a national crisis while accusing moderate and thoughtful opponents of weakness or disloyalty.

It is Trump's persona that I don't like. I don't believe the media has distorted it but as I don't have cable/satelite maybe I'm not the best judge. And he lacks the one thing I think is critical to the job, intelligence.

it takes intelligence, strategy, and the ability to work with all kinds of people to create a multi billion dollar company. You are making your decisions based or a false characterization created by the media and the jealous leftists.

the exploitation of prejudice is what is being practiced by the hildebeast. prejudice against whites, Christians, successful people, independent people, jews, southerners, and anyone else who does not bow to the gods or political correctness.

you seem like a smart person, but you are missing what is actually going on.

 

[Mustang]

Paul Ryan, who thinks Putin is a bad guy, or, Donald Trump, who worships Putin?

Here's an observation:

I've always understood that there's a certain fascist authoritarian element to a wing of the GOP. (Ironically, they're the very same people who accuse Obama of being a dictator). Also ironically, they're always talking about the Constitution. However, these same people LOVED it when GWB proclaimed himself 'the decider', and they had no problem with the well-documented abuses of power of men like VP Dick Cheney and House Majority Leader Tom DeLay.

At this point, I think it's disturbingly clear that this wing of the GOP which heaps praise on Putin while condemning Obama (keep in mind that Sarah Palin said much the same thing a few years ago) would offer unwavering support to Trump if and when he won the presidency and started ruling by fiat instead of leading through consensus.

 

[Tehon]

I'm not so emotionally unstable as to give in to the politics of fear like you and so many others do. As you have have pointed out the politics of fear has been going on for quite some time now yet the rubes haven't caught on yet.

Most People Today Want to be Propagandized
There’s a principle in hypnotism that goes like this: A person cannot be hypnotized against his will. He must be a willing subject. He must be fully cooperative.

So it goes with propaganda. For propaganda to be effective, it requires submissive subjects. As Professor Nicholas O’Shaughnessy wrote, propaganda is a “co-production in which we are willing participants.”........

The reason they are successful, I fear, is that most people today want to be propagandized—though they would never admit it. Most people want to be given ideological marching orders and talking points from an authority. Most people have zero interest, and see little value, in engaging with arguments put forward by those who hold differing positions, unless it’s to ridicule them. Most people want to simply choose the news media organizations that best fit with their selected ideological camps and immerse themselves in their informational streams.

there is certainly some truth to that, but it seems much more prevalent on the left than on the right. How else can support of Hillary Clinton be explained? A proven liar, a proven criminal, a proven thief, a proven incompetent, and now a proven mentally and physically sick human being. Other than propaganda, how can anyone support such a defective human being?

I have seen an awakening of sorts on the right but it doesn't appear to be a full realization of reality. The right has just glommed onto a new authority figure who appears to be nothing more than a demagogue.

demagogue? how is a successful businessman, who is not a politician, doesn't need the job, and is using a lot of his own money a demagogue? Were Washington and Lincoln demagogues?

Maybe you don't like the media created persona of Trump, that's fine. But he is exactly what this country needs right now. Someone who owes no favors to special interests or foreign power brokers and who can do what is needed without fear of blackmail.

Hillary can be blackmailed by any number of groups, including the Saudis, Soros, China, and every hacker in the world who has her "lost" emails.

Yes.....a demagogue.

A demagogue /ˈdɛməɡɒɡ/ (from Greek δημαγωγός, a popular leader, a leader of the mob, from δῆμος, people, populace, the commons + ἀγωγός leading, leader)[1] or rabble-rouser is a leader in a democracy who gains popularity by exploiting prejudice and ignorance among the common people, whipping up the passions of the crowd and shutting down reasoned deliberation.[1][2][3][4] Demagogues have usually advocated immediate, violent action to address a national crisis while accusing moderate and thoughtful opponents of weakness or disloyalty.

It is Trump's persona that I don't like. I don't believe the media has distorted it but as I don't have cable/satelite maybe I'm not the best judge. And he lacks the one thing I think is critical to the job, intelligence.

it takes intelligence, strategy, and the ability to work with all kinds of people to create a multi billion dollar company. You are making your decisions based or a false characterization created by the media and the jealous leftists.

the exploitation of prejudice is what is being practiced by the hildebeast. prejudice against whites, Christians, successful people, independent people, jews, southerners, and anyone else who does not bow to the gods or political correctness.

you seem like a smart person, but you are missing what is actually going on.

I think I have a fairly good handle on what is going on and I am basing my impressions of Trump on my own observations. Public speaking exposes him to these criticisms to say nothing of his history in business.

 

[nat4900]

to say nothing of his history in business.

As proven by his tax returns????

 

[Tehon]

to say nothing of his history in business.

As proven by his tax returns????

You don't need his tax returns to see the poor decision making, look at what he did with the Taj Mahal.

His ties to Russia are a result of his being unable to get funding through US banking channels.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Paul Ryan, who thinks Putin is a bad guy, or, Donald Trump, who worships Putin?

Here's an observation:

I've always understood that there's a certain fascist authoritarian element to a wing of the GOP. (Ironically, they're the very same people who accuse Obama of being a dictator). Also ironically, they're always talking about the Constitution. However, these same people LOVED it when GWB proclaimed himself 'the decider', and they had no problem with the well-documented abuses of power of men like VP Dick Cheney and House Majority Leader Tom DeLay.

At this point, I think it's disturbingly clear that this wing of the GOP which heaps praise on Putin while condemning Obama (keep in mind that Sarah Palin said much the same thing a few years ago) would offer unwavering support to Trump if and when he won the presidency and started ruling by fiat instead of leading through consensus.

Yes, one of the aspects of the Alt Right is a solid tendency to authoritarianism.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Tehon and Redfish and Skull Pilot write as if they are disinfo agents for Russia.

They are not smart enough to be hired as such, based on what they have written above.

We have all seen Putin and Russia in action for a long time, engaged in protecting its own borders and trying to dominate their neighbors.

The goals are obvious.

(1) Recreation of the old USSR

(2) Dominating the Dardanelles

Any American candidate who is making eyes at Putin is dangerous.

Any attempt to say it is innocent or not dangerous to America is propaganda of the worst sort.

Here you go again Fakey

I never said anything about the old USSR did I

I only ever mentioned your new found fear of Putin and Russia as a threat when in the last 8 years policy has demonstrated that no one in the executive branch thinks Russia is a threat

 

[nat4900]

His ties to Russia are a result of his being unable to get funding through US banking channels.

Oh, my apologies, the above absolves Trump from exactly what???

 

[Tehon]

His ties to Russia are a result of his being unable to get funding through US banking channels.

Oh, my apologies, the above absolves Trump from exactly what???

I'm not defending Trump here in this thread. I'm not sure though what he has done that needs your absolution.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Tehon and Redfish and Skull Pilot write as if they are disinfo agents for Russia.

They are not smart enough to be hired as such, based on what they have written above.

We have all seen Putin and Russia in action for a long time, engaged in protecting its own borders and trying to dominate their neighbors.

The goals are obvious.

(1) Recreation of the old USSR

(2) Dominating the Dardanelles

Any American candidate who is making eyes at Putin is dangerous.

Any attempt to say it is innocent or not dangerous to America is propaganda of the worst sort.

Here you go again Fakey

I never said anything about the old USSR did I

I only ever mentioned your new found fear of Putin and Russia as a threat when in the last 8 years policy has demonstrated that no one in the executive branch thinks Russia is a threat

You did say: "But you have to admit Obammy didn't seem to care if he was a threat when he allowed the missile defense system in Poland to to be given up or when he knuckled under to Russia's demand that sanctions against Iran not include harsh nuclear restrictions did he?" You are clearly aware of Russia's threat to us, and I will remind you once again that Obama is not running. Comrade Trump is, and he loves Putyin.

So you are in a pickle, which is beginning to stink.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Anyone who suggests that Putin's Russia is benign to the USA is up to no good.

 

[Tehon]

Wake up Jake, it's not too late. Be a voice of common sense and reason and bury your fear mongering ways. I know you want to.

 

[HappyJoy]

Wake up Jake, it's not too late. Be a voice of common sense and reason and bury your fear mongering ways. I know you want to.

Abby Martin is a 9/11 truther. She has her little show on RT and pretends there is no bias. Fuck her.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Wake up Jake, it's not too late. Be a voice of common sense and reason and bury your fear mongering ways. I know you want to.

I know that you have trouble believing in common sense.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Wake up Jake, it's not too late. Be a voice of common sense and reason and bury your fear mongering ways. I know you want to.

Abby Martin is a 9/11 truther. She has her little show on RT and pretends there is no bias. Fuck her.

Any truther is a living monument to the ability of prejudice overcoming common sense.

 

[Sbiker]

Stupid comment: "Obammy and all the dims laughed when Romney said Russia was a danger " Who said that Russia was not a danger? Russia has been a danger for longer than some of us have been alive.

Any who dismiss Putin as harmless and any who dismiss Russia as not a danger, such as Skull Pilot and Tehon, are mentally malignant, or emotionally disadvantaged, or woefully uneducated, or any or a combination of all three.

I'm very flattered because you consider Russia is a great danger for US, but just tell me - HOW? How can Russia cause any damage to USA?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Stupid comment: "Obammy and all the dims laughed when Romney said Russia was a danger " Who said that Russia was not a danger? Russia has been a danger for longer than some of us have been alive.

Any who dismiss Putin as harmless and any who dismiss Russia as not a danger, such as Skull Pilot and Tehon, are mentally malignant, or emotionally disadvantaged, or woefully uneducated, or any or a combination of all three.

I'm very flattered because you consider Russia is a great danger for US, but just tell me - HOW? How can Russia cause any damage to USA?

Disingenuous much? Go study a history book on Russia and international relations sinc 1000 CE.

 

[Sbiker]

We are reacting to Trump stating that Putin is a STRONGER leader than Obama has been for the U.S

To be quite honest yes, Putin is stronger as a leader than Obama. Take for instance the sureness of their leadership. Putin is sure of himself, even if it was making the wrong decision to annex Crimea, he did it. He didn't bow to political pressure, he just did it. Obama is afraid to cross that red line he drew in Syria because he was afraid he'd upset the anti-war cooks.

Think about it. I'm not endorsing anything Putin has done, not the annexation, not the crackdown on journalists or political opponents. But Putin isn't afraid of upsetting people with his decisions, whether they be good or bad.

You are confusing leadership with force. Real leaders don't need to gain compliance through threats, which is what Putin does. Putin governs through intimidation, fear and force. He maintains a psychological choke-hold over the consciousness of Russians, which is why you see this "support." It's a 100% authoritarian approach. You'll only ever see real leadership in a democratic republic. Leadership within a totalitarian regime is not leadership -- it's force. When your citizens essentially have NO CHOICE but to support you, you are not a real leader, but a bully.

Are you seriously?

What's the matter Sbiker, you were not aware that you were living under an authoritarian regime? Let the morons here explain it to you, of course they know.

It is amazing how people who have little to no real experience in your country know so much about it........yet they seem apparently oblivious to how their own society functions.

Frequently I remember joke about Russian Reversal )) It really plays in very unexpective topics...