On Islam

[Saigon]

Mohammad had a 9 year old wife named Aisha though. That makes your prophet a pedophile and a rapist.

No, it makes you staggeringly ignorant to not be aware that the term "marriage" in Islamic countries often defines a protective relationship which does not involve sex at all.

A man may marry his brother's wife in the event of the brothers death, not to have sex with her, but to ensure she is well looked after.


Again - you don't think it stretches credibility that someone who grew up in three Muslim countries wouldn't know that?

 

[SAYIT]

Mohammad had a 9 year old wife named Aisha though. That makes your prophet a pedophile and a rapist.

No, it makes you staggeringly ignorant to not be aware that the term "marriage" in Islamic countries often defines a protective relationship which does not involve sex at all.

A man may marry his brother's wife in the event of the brothers death, not to have sex with her, but to ensure she is well looked after.

Yeah, OK, that's why he married a 9 year old.
You know, sometimes you just have to say it was more or less acceptable then and let it go rather than contort yourself just to discredit another poster.
What Mohamed was saying was "I'm so fucking important I can take this 9 year old [kinda like Michael Jackson] and nobody can do shit about it."
That one act turned Arab and Muslim women into chattel, a tradition which continues to this day.

 

[Roudy]

Mohammad had a 9 year old wife named Aisha though. That makes your prophet a pedophile and a rapist.

No, it makes you staggeringly ignorant to not be aware that the term "marriage" in Islamic countries often defines a protective relationship which does not involve sex at all.

A man may marry his brother's wife in the event of the brothers death, not to have sex with her, but to ensure she is well looked after.


Again - you don't think it stretches credibility that someone who grew up in three Muslim countries wouldn't know that?

No actually he got engaged to her at the age of six, and he "consummated" the marriage as in raped her at the age of nine. Which is why marriage to Muslim women is legal in many Muslim countries. Protective custody my ass.

 

[irosie91]

there is nothing stopping a muslim who is married to a woman for any reason from having sex with her-------including her refusal "PROTECTIVE MARRIAGE"?? yeah right Little 12 year old girls are not getting pregnant from "PROTECTIVE MARRIAGES"

 

[Saigon]

Irosie -

I agree with you.

But the fact that there is nothing to stop an accountant stealing a company's money does not mean all accountants do steal money. Neither does it mean any sensible people start calling all accountants thieves.

Trying to smear ALL Muslims of being paedophiles and rapists, as both you and Roudy do on a daily basis, can only be inspired by racial hatred, ignorance and prejudice of the ugliest kind.

Are all Jews mean? Do all Jews have hooked noses?

Racism has no place in any sensible discussion, and it is disappointing that the two of you feel you can not debate these topics without resorting to the tactics of neo-fascists.

 

[Saigon]

. Which is why marriage to Muslim women is legal in many Muslim countries. Protective custody my ass.

Should it be illegal to marry a Muslim women?

Protective custody?

 

[Hollie]

Irosie -

I agree with you.

But the fact tha there is notning to stop an accountant stealing a company's money does not mean all accountants do steal money.

Most don't and you and Roudy constantly trying to smear ALL Muslims of being paedophiles and rapists can only be inspired by racial hatred.

Are all Jews mean? Do all Jews have hooked noses?

Racism has no place in any sensible discussion.

"Muslim" is a race?

 

[Saigon]

Hollie -

As I must have explained this 20 time on the board now, please try and remember this explanation!

Most experts who work in this area DO consider attacks against the Jewish and Islamic religions to meet the criteria for 'racism'.

"Islamophobia denotes prejudice against, hatred or irrational fear of Muslims.[1][2] Islamophobia may also target people who have Muslim names, or have a look that is associated with Muslims.[3] Scholars of the social sciences frequently consider it a form of racism.[4][5] The term dates back to the early 1900s, but its modern use originates during the late 1980s or early 1990s,[6] It entered the common vocabulary after the September 11, 2001 attacks in the United States"

Islamophobia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When we see posters posting statements such as "All muslim women are whores" as Rosie did last week, I don't think anyone is going to seriously suggest this is in any way less bigoted, offensive or ignorant as any statement you can find anywhere on this board.

 

[Hollie]

Hollie -

As I must have explained this 20 time on the board now, please try and remember this explanation!

Most experts who work in this area DO consider attacks against the Jewish and Islamic religions to meet the criteria for 'racism'.

"Islamophobia denotes prejudice against, hatred or irrational fear of Muslims.[1][2] Islamophobia may also target people who have Muslim names, or have a look that is associated with Muslims.[3] Scholars of the social sciences frequently consider it a form of racism.[4][5] The term dates back to the early 1900s, but its modern use originates during the late 1980s or early 1990s,[6] It entered the common vocabulary after the September 11, 2001 attacks in the United States"

Islamophobia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When we see posters posting statements such as "All muslim women are whores" as Rosie did last week, I don't think anyone is going to seriously suggest this is in any way less bigoted, offensive or ignorant as any statement you can find anywhere on this board.

Your explanations are not explanations at all. They are excuses for misrepresenting accuracy and integrity.

For example, you claim:

"Most experts who work in this area DO consider attacks against the Jewish and Islamic religions to meet the criteria for 'racism'. "

What experts in what field? Are there really expects in the field of "islamophobia"?

As far as I can discern the history of the term, it derived from a Muslim Brotherhood mouthpiece organization. It's just a simple fact that Muslim is not a race. It's fine by me if you choose to be sloppy with your argumentation for rhetorical purposes but it also suggested that you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Saigon]

Hollie -

If you would prefer to use terms like 'bigotry','prejudice' or perhaps 'hate speech' for attacks against Jews, I have no problem with that at all.

The terminology IS used this way in contemporary sociology and political philosophy, but that hardly makes it compulsory.

Just to be clear here - attacks against Jews and Muslims CAN accurately be considered racism, without question.

The origin of the term 'Islamophobia' dates back to the early 20th century, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the Muslim Brotherhood. It came into contemporary use from Edward Säid, of course. Also the late departed Christopher Hitchins used it a lot.

btw. I do use terms correctly. I do know what I am talking about.

 

[Hollie]

Hollie -

If you would prefer to use terms like 'bigotry','prejudice' or perhaps 'hate speech' for attacks against Jews, I have no problem with that at all.

The terminology ' IS used this way in contemporary sociology and political philosophy, but that hardly makes it compulsory.

Just to be clear here - attacks against Jews and Muslims CAN accurately be considered racism, without question.

You forgot the qualifier "because I say so".

 

[Saigon]

Hollie -

It has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with what you or I say - I can site numerous references which establish this point.

Just because a word is in a dictionary doesn't mean you have to use it, but I don't think it is wildly clever to admonish people who do.

I have absolutely no idea why you would even consider arguing the point.

 

[Hollie]

Hollie -

It has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with what you or I say - I can site numerous references which establish this point.

I have absolutely no idea why you would even consider arguing the point.

It's just a fact that "Muslim" is not a race. It's too bad that you find accuracy and definition of terms to be unimportant but I do.

I've found that using inflammatory terms such as racism and islamophobia are most frequently employed by those who seek to defend... how shall we say... the "excesses" of a certain politico-religious ideology.

 

[Saigon]

Hollie -

Please try and understand - I am referring to a dictionary definition.

It's too bad that you find accuracy and definition of terms to be unimportant but I do.

If you check any dictionary which includes sociology and political philosophy terminology, you will find that 'Islamophobia' is referred to as a form of racism.

Again, if you would prefer to describe a statement such as "All Muslim women are sluts" as being bigotry, ignorance, prejudice or hate speech, then by all means do so.

Attacks against the Jewish religion can also be considered to meet the criteria for racism, despite also not targetting an ethnic group as such.

No one is suggesting Islam or Judaism are races.

 

[Hollie]

Hollie -

Please try and understand - I am referring to a dictionary definition.

It's too bad that you find accuracy and definition of terms to be unimportant but I do.

If you check any dictionary which includes sociology and political philosophy terminology, you will find that 'Islamophobia' is referred to as a form of racism.

Again, if you would prefer to describe a statement such as "All Muslim women are sluts" as being bigotry, ignorance, prejudice or hate speech, then by all means do so.

Attacks against the Jewish religion can also be considered to meet the criteria for racism, despite also not targetting an ethnic group as such.

No one is suggesting Islam or Judaism are races.

Can we thus assume that deciding remarks aimed at Christians to be racism?

 

[Saigon]

Hollie -

As I understand it, the contemporary use of the term 'racism' was broadened largely to include attacks on Judaism and Islam, less so other religions where there is no apparent link between a particular ethnic group and a religion.

So we could say that it may be used about Sikhs, Hindus and Shintoists - less so Buddhists (though one could argue that), Catholics, Mormons or Bahai.

Perhaps this is unfair...but then are not so many attacks on Seventh Day Adventists.

 

[Hollie]

Hollie -

As I understand it, the contemporary use of the term 'racism' was broadened largely to include attacks on Judaism and Islam, less so other religions where there is no apparent link between a particular ethnic group and a religion.

So we could say that it may be used about Sikhs, Hindus and Shintoists - less so Buddhists (though one could argue that), Catholics, Mormons or Bahai.

Perhaps this is unfair...but then are not so many attacks on Seventh Day Adventists.

We can also exclude lutherans?

I'm not clear as what attacks have been aimed at Islam to grant it a status of "race". I actually see throughout the islamist middle east, racist attacks against Christians and other minority races. The Ahmadiyya race (can I use the term "sub-race") of the race of Islam seems particularly prone to racist attacks by the majority Sunni race.

 

[Roudy]

. Which is why marriage to Muslim women is legal in many Muslim countries. Protective custody my ass.

Should it be illegal to marry a Muslim women?

Protective custody?

It should be illegal and criminal to marry 9 year olds. Are you that morally bankrupt?

 

[Roudy]

"Because I know" <------

 

[Unkotare]

Hollie -

As I must have explained this 20 time on the board now, please try and remember this explanation!

Most experts who work in this area DO consider attacks against the Jewish and Islamic religions to meet the criteria for 'racism'.

"Islamophobia denotes prejudice against, hatred or irrational fear of Muslims.[1][2] Islamophobia may also target people who have Muslim names, or have a look that is associated with Muslims.[3] Scholars of the social sciences frequently consider it a form of racism.[4][5] The term dates back to the early 1900s, but its modern use originates during the late 1980s or early 1990s,[6] It entered the common vocabulary after the September 11, 2001 attacks in the United States"

Islamophobia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When we see posters posting statements such as "All muslim women are whores" as Rosie did last week, I don't think anyone is going to seriously suggest this is in any way less bigoted, offensive or ignorant as any statement you can find anywhere on this board.

Your explanations are not explanations at all. They are excuses for misrepresenting accuracy and integrity.

For example, you claim:

"Most experts who work in this area DO consider attacks against the Jewish and Islamic religions to meet the criteria for 'racism'. "

What experts in what field? Are there really expects in the field of "islamophobia"?

As far as I can discern the history of the term, it derived from a Muslim Brotherhood mouthpiece organization. It's just a simple fact that Muslim is not a race. It's fine by me if you choose to be sloppy with your argumentation for rhetorical purposes but it also suggested that you don't know what you're talking about.

You'll have to forgive him. He's not a native English speaker, and his familiarity with the language is superficial at best.