One day the economy will get much worse and only socialism will save it

[francoHFW]

How will republican policy address automation replacing human jobs?

How will republican policy address wages becoming more and more behind on the rising cost of living nationwide?

How will republican policy address rising drug prices and high deductible health insurance plans?

How will republican policy mitigate problems like drought and other natural disasters that are only getting worse because of climate change?

How will republican policy fix our crumbling infrastructure?

Only socialist policy can improve all of these things.

Actually we just need to tax the rich a little more and invest in American and America. And health care and daycare... Oh right, that is socialism. Could someone tell the GOP Dupes?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

How will republican policy address automation replacing human jobs?

How will republican policy address wages becoming more and more behind on the rising cost of living nationwide?

How will republican policy address rising drug prices and high deductible health insurance plans?

How will republican policy mitigate problems like drought and other natural disasters that are only getting worse because of climate change?

How will republican policy fix our crumbling infrastructure?

Only socialist policy can improve all of these things.

Actually we just need to tax the rich a little more and invest in American and America. And health care and daycare... Oh right, that is socialism. Could someone tell the GOP Dupes?

Sorry,

The Dupes are off to nominate another SCOTUS judge.

Good luck with your "collectivist" programs.

 

[task0778]

And you think raising taxes on the rich guys can pay for all that? Let's go through it line by line:

Automation: I take it you want to tax robots and/or automation. You don't see the squeeze you're putting on small businesses? Automation, innovation, computerization is called progress by some. And UBI, do you realize how much that would cost to implement? We're talking trillions every year. There's a reason why the voters in Switzerland turned this idea down.

Minimum wage: Yeah sure, first we curb automation and them we force employers to pay more for basic labor. You don't foresee the consequences? There would be a lot of small businesses that would quit, there's no way they could make ends meet. We ain't talking about the top 1% guys here, you know.

Public Option: There's a reason why it failed in Vermont and the voters in Colorado and California lawmakers shot it down. It's just too freakin' expensive and the quality of care is reduced dramatically. People die waiting for certain types of care. Look at our VA here, it's basically a public option and it totally sucks for our vets.

Climate Change/Drought/Natural Disasters: How will a socialist policy work any better than a capitalist one? And I don't anybody but you guys gives a crap about climate change.

Infrastructure: So why would this be any different under a socialist policy than a capitalist one?

Appreciate the effort you made here. But all this stuff you want to do is not cheap. The social democracies that have some of these policies also tax everybody big time, and i mean EVERYBODY, not just the upper 50%.

1) Automation: it would come with an economic cost to any business, but the cost would pail in comparison to the benefit of securing jobs for future generations. I think you underestimate how big of a problem this issue is. Today's business people don't give a damn about securing jobs for future generations. They care about making money right now, today. And if they don't, they go out of business if they can't make up the higher costs of labor that your socialist policies are going to cost them, AND you're going to curb or take away their ability to automate, computerize, or innovate, and that ain't a good thing for future generations either. And not only that, you're really going to hurt startups and investments in business expansion.
Trillions a year? No. I am not suggesting we replace the income people have now. I am talking about it being a supplement to only those who NEED it most.
Okay, but now you're not talking about UBI anymore, you're talking about something else and I don't know what that is.
2) Productivity among workers and profits are at an all time high. They can afford a raise, they just choose not to.
I don't think you fully appreciate the thin line between profit and loss in so many small businesses and franchises in this country. You're making some off-the-cuff assumptions here without really knowing what the actual impact would be. And here again you're going to seriously impact business startups and expansion when you start mandating wages and prices.
3) Do you know how much we spend per year on defense? We can definitely afford it. The overall cost would save us money. We spend more per capita on healthcare than most developed nations do. What're you going to do, shelve the entire defense industry? The latest Defense Appropriations bill is for about $675 billion, how much of that are you going to slash? Good luck convincing Repubs and Dems alike how much you're going to cut the money going to their states.
And healthcare? Wait, aren't you the guy that wants the public option? Didn't I mention the VA in my last post, do you realize how fucked up that is? I doubt there are too many other countries around the world who are really happy with their gov't run HC system. And the cost is catastrophic, didn't I mention the failure of the HC systems in Vermont and ow other states have turned it down? There's a reason for that you know.
4) Climate change is real whether you like it or not. But not as real as you think, whether you like it or not either. How much money are you going to spend on this?

Of course these solutions aren’t cheap, but we can afford them. Part of that process will be closing loopholes and deductions because the EFFECTIVE, not official, tax rate is too low for corporations

No shit, your solutions are very expensive. You say we can afford them but I say no way in hell. And the effective tax rate for US corps is pretty much in line with every other industrialized country, is it not? And that ain't going to cut it dude, you aren't going to get enough revenue to even come close to doing what you want to do. I remember when Bernie Sanders was running for Prez, he came out with a lot of these ideas and put some numbers up too. Which I thought was pretty brave on his part, and he got shot down big time and not just by the Right either.

Sure, go to the American people and tell them you're going to cut defense by what, 50%? Then go to Congress and tell them which bases and programs you're going to cut to get down by 50%, let's see how far you get. Then let's see your numbers for the public option, I assume you're going to tell those of us on Medicare/Medicaid that we won't have that anymore. You might have a bit of resistance there I think. Then tell me what your idea is for UBI that isn't going to be universal, who gets what. And then try to sell the American people on how much you want to spend on Climate Change; I don't think you're going to find many Dems lining up behind you for all that.

Having said all that, I commend you for putting all this out there for us to shoot at. You put some time and thought into it, bravo!

 

[francoHFW]

How will republican policy address automation replacing human jobs?

How will republican policy address wages becoming more and more behind on the rising cost of living nationwide?

How will republican policy address rising drug prices and high deductible health insurance plans?

How will republican policy mitigate problems like drought and other natural disasters that are only getting worse because of climate change?

How will republican policy fix our crumbling infrastructure?

Only socialist policy can improve all of these things.

Actually we just need to tax the rich a little more and invest in American and America. And health care and daycare... Oh right, that is socialism. Could someone tell the GOP Dupes?

Sorry,

The Dupes are off to nominate another SCOTUS judge.

Good luck with your "collectivist" programs.

Good luck taking America back to Poor houses and Potter's fields, super dupe
. What is so wrong with a living wage 5 week 5 week vacation Healthcare daycare good infrastructure Etc, dumbbell. Seriously Republicans are worst voters in the modern world... And now brainwashed with pure crap.

 

[Maxdeath]

Socialism could mean a system with programs funded by the people but entirely owned by the government, or in a social democratic system, the people fund it, but the programs are designed to provide basic services to the people such as healthcare and education. Every nation therefore has some extent of socialism including the US.

Okay, good. Now tell me how socialist policy is going to fix these things you describe in your OP:

How will republican policy address automation replacing human jobs?

How will republican policy address wages becoming more and more behind on the rising cost of living nationwide?

How will republican policy address rising drug prices and high deductible health insurance plans?

How will republican policy mitigate problems like drought and other natural disasters that are only getting worse because of climate change?

How will republican policy fix our crumbling infrastructure?


See, I don't think that socialist policies are going to fix ANY of these things. I'm asking you to show me how you're going to accomplish these things and how you're going to pay for them.

Automation: either curbing automation in the future that cut into future jobs with enforcement of policy, or if that fails, consider universal based income.

Wages: raising the minimum wage

Healthcare: either a public option or enforcement of price caps on health care services like drug costs.

Climate change: improving our infrastructure would go a long way. It would also help to invest in science and research

Fixing infrastructure would of course involve investing in projects to fix the issues.

And you think raising taxes on the rich guys can pay for all that? Let's go through it line by line:

Automation: I take it you want to tax robots and/or automation. You don't see the squeeze you're putting on small businesses? Automation, innovation, computerization is called progress by some. And UBI, do you realize how much that would cost to implement? We're talking trillions every year. There's a reason why the voters in Switzerland turned this idea down.

Minimum wage: Yeah sure, first we curb automation and them we force employers to pay more for basic labor. You don't foresee the consequences? There would be a lot of small businesses that would quit, there's no way they could make ends meet. We ain't talking about the top 1% guys here, you know.

Public Option: There's a reason why it failed in Vermont and the voters in Colorado and California lawmakers shot it down. It's just too freakin' expensive and the quality of care is reduced dramatically. People die waiting for certain types of care. Look at our VA here, it's basically a public option and it totally sucks for our vets.

Climate Change/Drought/Natural Disasters: How will a socialist policy work any better than a capitalist one? And I don't anybody but you guys gives a crap about climate change.

Infrastructure: So why would this be any different under a socialist policy than a capitalist one?

Appreciate the effort you made here. But all this stuff you want to do is not cheap. The social democracies that have some of these policies also tax everybody big time, and i mean EVERYBODY, not just the upper 50%.

1) Automation: it would come with an economic cost to any business, but the cost would pail in comparison to the benefit of securing jobs for future generations. I think you underestimate how big of a problem this issue is.
Trillions a year? No. I am not suggesting we replace the income people have now. I am talking about it being a supplement to only those who NEED it most.

2) Productivity among workers and profits are at an all time high. They can afford a raise, they just choose not to.

3) Do you know how much we spend per year on defense? We can definitely afford it. The overall cost would save us money. We spend more per capita on healthcare than most developed nations do.

4) Climate change is real whether you like it or not.

Of course these solutions aren’t cheap, but we can afford them. Part of that process will be closing loopholes and deductions because the EFFECTIVE, not official, tax rate is too low for corporations

So you want to curb defense spending. Please explain just where you think the cuts should be.
If we cut out some of the spending in general in Europe we violate our commitment to NATO. If we cut some of the spending in South Korea we violate our commitment to them. If we close bases we have not just soldiers that join the ranks of the unemployed but we have people who are reliant on that base for their livelihood. Even the businesses around the base are reliant on the base.
Perhaps we could cut back on maintenance but then we take a chance on a plane crashing, a ship sinking, a gun not firing. Perhaps we could have our pilots fly world war 1 planes, our navy use ships made from hides.
We could always fight less wars but that would require congress acting like grown ups.
Raises will come as two things happen. Those willing to work for substandard pay are displaced and more jobs go unfilled due to a better economy. Forcing wages to increase forces inflation and forces small businesses to fold. Neither is acceptable.

 

[Billy000]

And you think raising taxes on the rich guys can pay for all that? Let's go through it line by line:

Automation: I take it you want to tax robots and/or automation. You don't see the squeeze you're putting on small businesses? Automation, innovation, computerization is called progress by some. And UBI, do you realize how much that would cost to implement? We're talking trillions every year. There's a reason why the voters in Switzerland turned this idea down.

Minimum wage: Yeah sure, first we curb automation and them we force employers to pay more for basic labor. You don't foresee the consequences? There would be a lot of small businesses that would quit, there's no way they could make ends meet. We ain't talking about the top 1% guys here, you know.

Public Option: There's a reason why it failed in Vermont and the voters in Colorado and California lawmakers shot it down. It's just too freakin' expensive and the quality of care is reduced dramatically. People die waiting for certain types of care. Look at our VA here, it's basically a public option and it totally sucks for our vets.

Climate Change/Drought/Natural Disasters: How will a socialist policy work any better than a capitalist one? And I don't anybody but you guys gives a crap about climate change.

Infrastructure: So why would this be any different under a socialist policy than a capitalist one?

Appreciate the effort you made here. But all this stuff you want to do is not cheap. The social democracies that have some of these policies also tax everybody big time, and i mean EVERYBODY, not just the upper 50%.

1) Automation: it would come with an economic cost to any business, but the cost would pail in comparison to the benefit of securing jobs for future generations. I think you underestimate how big of a problem this issue is. Today's business people don't give a damn about securing jobs for future generations. They care about making money right now, today. And if they don't, they go out of business if they can't make up the higher costs of labor that your socialist policies are going to cost them, AND you're going to curb or take away their ability to automate, computerize, or innovate, and that ain't a good thing for future generations either. And not only that, you're really going to hurt startups and investments in business expansion.
Trillions a year? No. I am not suggesting we replace the income people have now. I am talking about it being a supplement to only those who NEED it most.
Okay, but now you're not talking about UBI anymore, you're talking about something else and I don't know what that is.
2) Productivity among workers and profits are at an all time high. They can afford a raise, they just choose not to.
I don't think you fully appreciate the thin line between profit and loss in so many small businesses and franchises in this country. You're making some off-the-cuff assumptions here without really knowing what the actual impact would be. And here again you're going to seriously impact business startups and expansion when you start mandating wages and prices.
3) Do you know how much we spend per year on defense? We can definitely afford it. The overall cost would save us money. We spend more per capita on healthcare than most developed nations do. What're you going to do, shelve the entire defense industry? The latest Defense Appropriations bill is for about $675 billion, how much of that are you going to slash? Good luck convincing Repubs and Dems alike how much you're going to cut the money going to their states.
And healthcare? Wait, aren't you the guy that wants the public option? Didn't I mention the VA in my last post, do you realize how fucked up that is? I doubt there are too many other countries around the world who are really happy with their gov't run HC system. And the cost is catastrophic, didn't I mention the failure of the HC systems in Vermont and ow other states have turned it down? There's a reason for that you know.
4) Climate change is real whether you like it or not. But not as real as you think, whether you like it or not either. How much money are you going to spend on this?

Of course these solutions aren’t cheap, but we can afford them. Part of that process will be closing loopholes and deductions because the EFFECTIVE, not official, tax rate is too low for corporations

No shit, your solutions are very expensive. You say we can afford them but I say no way in hell. And the effective tax rate for US corps is pretty much in line with every other industrialized country, is it not? And that ain't going to cut it dude, you aren't going to get enough revenue to even come close to doing what you want to do. I remember when Bernie Sanders was running for Prez, he came out with a lot of these ideas and put some numbers up too. Which I thought was pretty brave on his part, and he got shot down big time and not just by the Right either.

Sure, go to the American people and tell them you're going to cut defense by what, 50%? Then go to Congress and tell them which bases and programs you're going to cut to get down by 50%, let's see how far you get. Then let's see your numbers for the public option, I assume you're going to tell those of us on Medicare/Medicaid that we won't have that anymore. You might have a bit of resistance there I think. Then tell me what your idea is for UBI that isn't going to be universal, who gets what. And then try to sell the American people on how much you want to spend on Climate Change; I don't think you're going to find many Dems lining up behind you.

Having said all that, I commend you for putting all this out there for us to shoot at. You put some time and thought into it, bravo!

1) Innovation means jack shit if it threatens the quality of life of future generations. I’m not exaggerating when I say that is threatened.

2) UBI’s definition does include it being a supplement for the most vulnerable of populations.

3) We spend more on defense than our top allies do COMBINED. We can definitely afford some dramatic cuts. A 50% cut wouldn’t be necessary. I’m talking about cutting with a scalpel, not a sledge hammer.

4) You seem to forget about the success of socialized medicine in other nations. Western Europe, Canada, Australia, and Japan have healthcare systems superior to ours in terms of accessibility for the poor and middle class. In this country, the poor get fucked when it comes to vital healthcare. Again, our current healthcare system spends more per capita than any other developed nation. Medicare or Medicaid wouldn’t be so expensive if the cost of buying it from greedy healthcare companies wasn’t so high. There are drugs sold in other countries by the same industries here for a fraction of the cost. That’s because those nations put caps on how high drugs can be sold for.

5) I’m not sure how much it will cost to help mitigate climate change, but doing nothing will fuck us over.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

And you think raising taxes on the rich guys can pay for all that? Let's go through it line by line:

Automation: I take it you want to tax robots and/or automation. You don't see the squeeze you're putting on small businesses? Automation, innovation, computerization is called progress by some. And UBI, do you realize how much that would cost to implement? We're talking trillions every year. There's a reason why the voters in Switzerland turned this idea down.

Minimum wage: Yeah sure, first we curb automation and them we force employers to pay more for basic labor. You don't foresee the consequences? There would be a lot of small businesses that would quit, there's no way they could make ends meet. We ain't talking about the top 1% guys here, you know.

Public Option: There's a reason why it failed in Vermont and the voters in Colorado and California lawmakers shot it down. It's just too freakin' expensive and the quality of care is reduced dramatically. People die waiting for certain types of care. Look at our VA here, it's basically a public option and it totally sucks for our vets.

Climate Change/Drought/Natural Disasters: How will a socialist policy work any better than a capitalist one? And I don't anybody but you guys gives a crap about climate change.

Infrastructure: So why would this be any different under a socialist policy than a capitalist one?

Appreciate the effort you made here. But all this stuff you want to do is not cheap. The social democracies that have some of these policies also tax everybody big time, and i mean EVERYBODY, not just the upper 50%.

1) Automation: it would come with an economic cost to any business, but the cost would pail in comparison to the benefit of securing jobs for future generations. I think you underestimate how big of a problem this issue is. Today's business people don't give a damn about securing jobs for future generations. They care about making money right now, today. And if they don't, they go out of business if they can't make up the higher costs of labor that your socialist policies are going to cost them, AND you're going to curb or take away their ability to automate, computerize, or innovate, and that ain't a good thing for future generations either. And not only that, you're really going to hurt startups and investments in business expansion.
Trillions a year? No. I am not suggesting we replace the income people have now. I am talking about it being a supplement to only those who NEED it most.
Okay, but now you're not talking about UBI anymore, you're talking about something else and I don't know what that is.
2) Productivity among workers and profits are at an all time high. They can afford a raise, they just choose not to.
I don't think you fully appreciate the thin line between profit and loss in so many small businesses and franchises in this country. You're making some off-the-cuff assumptions here without really knowing what the actual impact would be. And here again you're going to seriously impact business startups and expansion when you start mandating wages and prices.
3) Do you know how much we spend per year on defense? We can definitely afford it. The overall cost would save us money. We spend more per capita on healthcare than most developed nations do. What're you going to do, shelve the entire defense industry? The latest Defense Appropriations bill is for about $675 billion, how much of that are you going to slash? Good luck convincing Repubs and Dems alike how much you're going to cut the money going to their states.
And healthcare? Wait, aren't you the guy that wants the public option? Didn't I mention the VA in my last post, do you realize how fucked up that is? I doubt there are too many other countries around the world who are really happy with their gov't run HC system. And the cost is catastrophic, didn't I mention the failure of the HC systems in Vermont and ow other states have turned it down? There's a reason for that you know.
4) Climate change is real whether you like it or not. But not as real as you think, whether you like it or not either. How much money are you going to spend on this?

Of course these solutions aren’t cheap, but we can afford them. Part of that process will be closing loopholes and deductions because the EFFECTIVE, not official, tax rate is too low for corporations

No shit, your solutions are very expensive. You say we can afford them but I say no way in hell. And the effective tax rate for US corps is pretty much in line with every other industrialized country, is it not? And that ain't going to cut it dude, you aren't going to get enough revenue to even come close to doing what you want to do. I remember when Bernie Sanders was running for Prez, he came out with a lot of these ideas and put some numbers up too. Which I thought was pretty brave on his part, and he got shot down big time and not just by the Right either.

Sure, go to the American people and tell them you're going to cut defense by what, 50%? Then go to Congress and tell them which bases and programs you're going to cut to get down by 50%, let's see how far you get. Then let's see your numbers for the public option, I assume you're going to tell those of us on Medicare/Medicaid that we won't have that anymore. You might have a bit of resistance there I think. Then tell me what your idea is for UBI that isn't going to be universal, who gets what. And then try to sell the American people on how much you want to spend on Climate Change; I don't think you're going to find many Dems lining up behind you.

Having said all that, I commend you for putting all this out there for us to shoot at. You put some time and thought into it, bravo!

1) Innovation means jack shit if it threatens the quality of life of future generations. I’m not exaggerating when I say that is threatened.

2) UBI’s definition does include it being a supplement for the most vulnerable of populations.

3) We spend more on defense than our top allies do COMBINED. We can definitely afford some dramatic cuts. A 50% cut wouldn’t be necessary. I’m talking about cutting with a scalpel, not a sledge hammer.

4) You seem to forget about the success of socialized medicine in other nations. Western Europe, Canada, Australia, and Japan have healthcare systems superior to ours in terms of accessibility for the poor and middle class. In this country, the poor get fucked when it comes to vital healthcare. Again, our current healthcare system spends more per capita than any other developed nation. Medicare or Medicaid wouldn’t be so expensive if the cost of buying it from greedy healthcare companies wasn’t so high. There are drugs sold in other countries by the same industries here for a fraction of the cost. That’s because those nations put caps on how high drugs can be sold for.

5) I’m not sure how much it will cost to help mitigate climate change, but doing nothing will fuck us over.

It seems you would do well to immigrate to one of these nations you so admire.

If you go to Europe, you might find a job (they are pretty particular in that regard...when it comes to outsiders) or you might need to drive a cab. You'll still get your health care which will keep you alive as you live out your days in some tiny overpriced apartment.

 

[westwall]

I don't think Billy is talking about a socialist gov't country like Cuba, N Korea, and Venezuela, I think he means a socialist democracy like Denmark or Sweden. The problem is that most of those places aren't doing so hot these days, with sky-high taxes and so many Muslim immigrants from Africa and the ME. Yeah, it's great to have all that free stuff, but EVERYBODY pays for it, not just the rich guys and big corps. For starters, everybody pays a VAT when they buy stuff, somewhere around 20%.

Their median wage is higher AFTER taxes than the median wage here.

Then why don't they have the ability to buy homes as easily as we can? Why are they limited to staying in the family homestead? Italy is another socialist paradise and a friend of ours is the first one in her family to be able to buy a house in fifty years. She lived like a pauper for twenty years to be able to do it. In Japan they have multi generational mortgages to make it even possible for a family to buy a home.

Me thinks you need to read something other than your myopic socialist rag to get a better view of the real world.

 

[task0778]

And you think raising taxes on the rich guys can pay for all that? Let's go through it line by line:

Automation: I take it you want to tax robots and/or automation. You don't see the squeeze you're putting on small businesses? Automation, innovation, computerization is called progress by some. And UBI, do you realize how much that would cost to implement? We're talking trillions every year. There's a reason why the voters in Switzerland turned this idea down.

Minimum wage: Yeah sure, first we curb automation and them we force employers to pay more for basic labor. You don't foresee the consequences? There would be a lot of small businesses that would quit, there's no way they could make ends meet. We ain't talking about the top 1% guys here, you know.

Public Option: There's a reason why it failed in Vermont and the voters in Colorado and California lawmakers shot it down. It's just too freakin' expensive and the quality of care is reduced dramatically. People die waiting for certain types of care. Look at our VA here, it's basically a public option and it totally sucks for our vets.

Climate Change/Drought/Natural Disasters: How will a socialist policy work any better than a capitalist one? And I don't anybody but you guys gives a crap about climate change.

Infrastructure: So why would this be any different under a socialist policy than a capitalist one?

Appreciate the effort you made here. But all this stuff you want to do is not cheap. The social democracies that have some of these policies also tax everybody big time, and i mean EVERYBODY, not just the upper 50%.

1) Automation: it would come with an economic cost to any business, but the cost would pail in comparison to the benefit of securing jobs for future generations. I think you underestimate how big of a problem this issue is. Today's business people don't give a damn about securing jobs for future generations. They care about making money right now, today. And if they don't, they go out of business if they can't make up the higher costs of labor that your socialist policies are going to cost them, AND you're going to curb or take away their ability to automate, computerize, or innovate, and that ain't a good thing for future generations either. And not only that, you're really going to hurt startups and investments in business expansion.
Trillions a year? No. I am not suggesting we replace the income people have now. I am talking about it being a supplement to only those who NEED it most.
Okay, but now you're not talking about UBI anymore, you're talking about something else and I don't know what that is.
2) Productivity among workers and profits are at an all time high. They can afford a raise, they just choose not to.
I don't think you fully appreciate the thin line between profit and loss in so many small businesses and franchises in this country. You're making some off-the-cuff assumptions here without really knowing what the actual impact would be. And here again you're going to seriously impact business startups and expansion when you start mandating wages and prices.
3) Do you know how much we spend per year on defense? We can definitely afford it. The overall cost would save us money. We spend more per capita on healthcare than most developed nations do. What're you going to do, shelve the entire defense industry? The latest Defense Appropriations bill is for about $675 billion, how much of that are you going to slash? Good luck convincing Repubs and Dems alike how much you're going to cut the money going to their states.
And healthcare? Wait, aren't you the guy that wants the public option? Didn't I mention the VA in my last post, do you realize how fucked up that is? I doubt there are too many other countries around the world who are really happy with their gov't run HC system. And the cost is catastrophic, didn't I mention the failure of the HC systems in Vermont and ow other states have turned it down? There's a reason for that you know.
4) Climate change is real whether you like it or not. But not as real as you think, whether you like it or not either. How much money are you going to spend on this?

Of course these solutions aren’t cheap, but we can afford them. Part of that process will be closing loopholes and deductions because the EFFECTIVE, not official, tax rate is too low for corporations

No shit, your solutions are very expensive. You say we can afford them but I say no way in hell. And the effective tax rate for US corps is pretty much in line with every other industrialized country, is it not? And that ain't going to cut it dude, you aren't going to get enough revenue to even come close to doing what you want to do. I remember when Bernie Sanders was running for Prez, he came out with a lot of these ideas and put some numbers up too. Which I thought was pretty brave on his part, and he got shot down big time and not just by the Right either.

Sure, go to the American people and tell them you're going to cut defense by what, 50%? Then go to Congress and tell them which bases and programs you're going to cut to get down by 50%, let's see how far you get. Then let's see your numbers for the public option, I assume you're going to tell those of us on Medicare/Medicaid that we won't have that anymore. You might have a bit of resistance there I think. Then tell me what your idea is for UBI that isn't going to be universal, who gets what. And then try to sell the American people on how much you want to spend on Climate Change; I don't think you're going to find many Dems lining up behind you.

Having said all that, I commend you for putting all this out there for us to shoot at. You put some time and thought into it, bravo!

1) Innovation means jack shit if it threatens the quality of life of future generations. I’m not exaggerating when I say that is threatened.

2) UBI’s definition does include it being a supplement for the most vulnerable of populations.

3) We spend more on defense than our top allies do COMBINED. We can definitely afford some dramatic cuts. A 50% cut wouldn’t be necessary. I’m talking about cutting with a scalpel, not a sledge hammer.

4) You seem to forget about the success of socialized medicine in other nations. Western Europe, Canada, Australia, and Japan have healthcare systems superior to ours in terms of accessibility for the poor and middle class. In this country, the poor get fucked when it comes to vital healthcare. Again, our current healthcare system spends more per capita than any other developed nation. Medicare or Medicaid wouldn’t be so expensive if the cost of buying it from greedy healthcare companies wasn’t so high. There are drugs sold in other countries by the same industries here for a fraction of the cost. That’s because those nations put caps on how high drugs can be sold for.

5) I’m not sure how much it will cost to help mitigate climate change, but doing nothing will fuck us over.

Innovation and automation generally means lower prices and higher quality of life. I don't think most people could afford to buy a car if we made them the same way Henry Ford did a 100 years ago.

Still don't know what you mean by a supplement for the most vulnerable of populations.

So, dramatic cuts with a scalpel not a sledgehammer. Okay. I'm not going to argue about it, we do need to be more cost conscious IMHO. But - it'll get tough when the pols find out you want to cut the money going to their districts.

I think you might be over-selling the success of socialized medicine in other countries. And rugs are sold in other countries a fraction of the cost we pay here cuz they don't have to pay for all the R&D costs to develop and test all those drugs. They just reproduce it after we create it.

I don't think we'll all be treading water any time soon due to climate change. I do think however that we should be continuing to develop new technologies for desalination of seawater and working on cleaner air and water initiatives. I do not support drill baby drill everywhere, but I am okay with fracking unless there is evidence of destabilizing the ground enough to cause earthquakes. Like in west Texas, not many problems out there that I know of. Frankly, in 50 years I think we'll be using other sources of energy for transportation and heating our homes.

 

[frigidweirdo]

How will republican policy address automation replacing human jobs?

How will republican policy address wages becoming more and more behind on the rising cost of living nationwide?

How will republican policy address rising drug prices and high deductible health insurance plans?

How will republican policy mitigate problems like drought and other natural disasters that are only getting worse because of climate change?

How will republican policy fix our crumbling infrastructure?

Only socialist policy can improve all of these things.

I'm not sure it'll be socialism that solves the problems at all.

I think without purpose humans will struggle, and it'll cause massive strife in the world that socialism wouldn't fix, not any other type of system.

Humans are best at destroying things.

 

[task0778]

I don't think Billy is talking about a socialist gov't country like Cuba, N Korea, and Venezuela, I think he means a socialist democracy like Denmark or Sweden. The problem is that most of those places aren't doing so hot these days, with sky-high taxes and so many Muslim immigrants from Africa and the ME. Yeah, it's great to have all that free stuff, but EVERYBODY pays for it, not just the rich guys and big corps. For starters, everybody pays a VAT when they buy stuff, somewhere around 20%.

Their median wage is higher AFTER taxes than the median wage here.

Then why don't they have the ability to buy homes as easily as we can? Why are they limited to staying in the family homestead? Italy is another socialist paradise and a friend of ours is the first one in her family to be able to buy a house in fifty years. She lived like a pauper for twenty years to be able to do it. In Japan they have multi generational mortgages to make it even possible for a family to buy a home.

Me thinks you need to read something other than your myopic socialist rag to get a better view of the real world.

This is purely a guess, but I think in most European countries the family home is passed down from one generation to the next, grandma and grandpa live there with the family until they die. And they just don't have the space that we do to build new housing developments. And you don't see a lot of grass, they plant flowers or stuff to eat.

Been awhile since I was there (30 years), but the price of a lot of stuff like food and clothing and gas is a lot higher than here.

 

[westwall]

I don't think Billy is talking about a socialist gov't country like Cuba, N Korea, and Venezuela, I think he means a socialist democracy like Denmark or Sweden. The problem is that most of those places aren't doing so hot these days, with sky-high taxes and so many Muslim immigrants from Africa and the ME. Yeah, it's great to have all that free stuff, but EVERYBODY pays for it, not just the rich guys and big corps. For starters, everybody pays a VAT when they buy stuff, somewhere around 20%.

Their median wage is higher AFTER taxes than the median wage here.

Then why don't they have the ability to buy homes as easily as we can? Why are they limited to staying in the family homestead? Italy is another socialist paradise and a friend of ours is the first one in her family to be able to buy a house in fifty years. She lived like a pauper for twenty years to be able to do it. In Japan they have multi generational mortgages to make it even possible for a family to buy a home.

Me thinks you need to read something other than your myopic socialist rag to get a better view of the real world.

This is purely a guess, but I think in most European countries the family home is passed down from one generation to the next, grandma and grandpa live there with the family until they die. And they just don't have the space that we do to build new housing developments. And you don't see a lot of grass, they plant flowers or stuff to eat.

Been awhile since I was there (30 years), but the price of a lot of stuff like food and clothing and gas is a lot higher than here.

Exactly. EVERYTHING costs more in Europe. We have a flat in Paris that has been passed down in my wifes family for over 400 years. If she didn't already own it there is no way we could afford to buy it.

 

[francoHFW]

And you think raising taxes on the rich guys can pay for all that? Let's go through it line by line:

Automation: I take it you want to tax robots and/or automation. You don't see the squeeze you're putting on small businesses? Automation, innovation, computerization is called progress by some. And UBI, do you realize how much that would cost to implement? We're talking trillions every year. There's a reason why the voters in Switzerland turned this idea down.

Minimum wage: Yeah sure, first we curb automation and them we force employers to pay more for basic labor. You don't foresee the consequences? There would be a lot of small businesses that would quit, there's no way they could make ends meet. We ain't talking about the top 1% guys here, you know.

Public Option: There's a reason why it failed in Vermont and the voters in Colorado and California lawmakers shot it down. It's just too freakin' expensive and the quality of care is reduced dramatically. People die waiting for certain types of care. Look at our VA here, it's basically a public option and it totally sucks for our vets.

Climate Change/Drought/Natural Disasters: How will a socialist policy work any better than a capitalist one? And I don't anybody but you guys gives a crap about climate change.

Infrastructure: So why would this be any different under a socialist policy than a capitalist one?

Appreciate the effort you made here. But all this stuff you want to do is not cheap. The social democracies that have some of these policies also tax everybody big time, and i mean EVERYBODY, not just the upper 50%.

1) Automation: it would come with an economic cost to any business, but the cost would pail in comparison to the benefit of securing jobs for future generations. I think you underestimate how big of a problem this issue is. Today's business people don't give a damn about securing jobs for future generations. They care about making money right now, today. And if they don't, they go out of business if they can't make up the higher costs of labor that your socialist policies are going to cost them, AND you're going to curb or take away their ability to automate, computerize, or innovate, and that ain't a good thing for future generations either. And not only that, you're really going to hurt startups and investments in business expansion.
Trillions a year? No. I am not suggesting we replace the income people have now. I am talking about it being a supplement to only those who NEED it most.
Okay, but now you're not talking about UBI anymore, you're talking about something else and I don't know what that is.
2) Productivity among workers and profits are at an all time high. They can afford a raise, they just choose not to.
I don't think you fully appreciate the thin line between profit and loss in so many small businesses and franchises in this country. You're making some off-the-cuff assumptions here without really knowing what the actual impact would be. And here again you're going to seriously impact business startups and expansion when you start mandating wages and prices.
3) Do you know how much we spend per year on defense? We can definitely afford it. The overall cost would save us money. We spend more per capita on healthcare than most developed nations do. What're you going to do, shelve the entire defense industry? The latest Defense Appropriations bill is for about $675 billion, how much of that are you going to slash? Good luck convincing Repubs and Dems alike how much you're going to cut the money going to their states.
And healthcare? Wait, aren't you the guy that wants the public option? Didn't I mention the VA in my last post, do you realize how fucked up that is? I doubt there are too many other countries around the world who are really happy with their gov't run HC system. And the cost is catastrophic, didn't I mention the failure of the HC systems in Vermont and ow other states have turned it down? There's a reason for that you know.
4) Climate change is real whether you like it or not. But not as real as you think, whether you like it or not either. How much money are you going to spend on this?

Of course these solutions aren’t cheap, but we can afford them. Part of that process will be closing loopholes and deductions because the EFFECTIVE, not official, tax rate is too low for corporations

No shit, your solutions are very expensive. You say we can afford them but I say no way in hell. And the effective tax rate for US corps is pretty much in line with every other industrialized country, is it not? And that ain't going to cut it dude, you aren't going to get enough revenue to even come close to doing what you want to do. I remember when Bernie Sanders was running for Prez, he came out with a lot of these ideas and put some numbers up too. Which I thought was pretty brave on his part, and he got shot down big time and not just by the Right either.

Sure, go to the American people and tell them you're going to cut defense by what, 50%? Then go to Congress and tell them which bases and programs you're going to cut to get down by 50%, let's see how far you get. Then let's see your numbers for the public option, I assume you're going to tell those of us on Medicare/Medicaid that we won't have that anymore. You might have a bit of resistance there I think. Then tell me what your idea is for UBI that isn't going to be universal, who gets what. And then try to sell the American people on how much you want to spend on Climate Change; I don't think you're going to find many Dems lining up behind you for all that.

Having said all that, I commend you for putting all this out there for us to shoot at. You put some time and thought into it, bravo!

The important thing to do is to tax the rich... Right now they pay less percentage-wise than much of the middle class... That is insane. Good vacations minimum wage living wage paid parental leave cost nothing. Cheap college and and training and infrastructure cost money. You dupes will take it up the ass forever I guess LOL arrrrgggghhhh

 

[francoHFW]

I don't think Billy is talking about a socialist gov't country like Cuba, N Korea, and Venezuela, I think he means a socialist democracy like Denmark or Sweden. The problem is that most of those places aren't doing so hot these days, with sky-high taxes and so many Muslim immigrants from Africa and the ME. Yeah, it's great to have all that free stuff, but EVERYBODY pays for it, not just the rich guys and big corps. For starters, everybody pays a VAT when they buy stuff, somewhere around 20%.

Their median wage is higher AFTER taxes than the median wage here.

Then why don't they have the ability to buy homes as easily as we can? Why are they limited to staying in the family homestead? Italy is another socialist paradise and a friend of ours is the first one in her family to be able to buy a house in fifty years. She lived like a pauper for twenty years to be able to do it. In Japan they have multi generational mortgages to make it even possible for a family to buy a home.

Me thinks you need to read something other than your myopic socialist rag to get a better view of the real world.

This is purely a guess, but I think in most European countries the family home is passed down from one generation to the next, grandma and grandpa live there with the family until they die. And they just don't have the space that we do to build new housing developments. And you don't see a lot of grass, they plant flowers or stuff to eat.

Been awhile since I was there (30 years), but the price of a lot of stuff like food and clothing and gas is a lot higher than here.

Exactly. EVERYTHING costs more in Europe. We have a flat in Paris that has been passed down in my wifes family for over 400 years. If she didn't already own it there is no way we could afford to buy it.

Paris? Please it is very expensive there.

 

[Meister]

And you think raising taxes on the rich guys can pay for all that? Let's go through it line by line:

Automation: I take it you want to tax robots and/or automation. You don't see the squeeze you're putting on small businesses? Automation, innovation, computerization is called progress by some. And UBI, do you realize how much that would cost to implement? We're talking trillions every year. There's a reason why the voters in Switzerland turned this idea down.

Minimum wage: Yeah sure, first we curb automation and them we force employers to pay more for basic labor. You don't foresee the consequences? There would be a lot of small businesses that would quit, there's no way they could make ends meet. We ain't talking about the top 1% guys here, you know.

Public Option: There's a reason why it failed in Vermont and the voters in Colorado and California lawmakers shot it down. It's just too freakin' expensive and the quality of care is reduced dramatically. People die waiting for certain types of care. Look at our VA here, it's basically a public option and it totally sucks for our vets.

Climate Change/Drought/Natural Disasters: How will a socialist policy work any better than a capitalist one? And I don't anybody but you guys gives a crap about climate change.

Infrastructure: So why would this be any different under a socialist policy than a capitalist one?

Appreciate the effort you made here. But all this stuff you want to do is not cheap. The social democracies that have some of these policies also tax everybody big time, and i mean EVERYBODY, not just the upper 50%.

1) Automation: it would come with an economic cost to any business, but the cost would pail in comparison to the benefit of securing jobs for future generations. I think you underestimate how big of a problem this issue is. Today's business people don't give a damn about securing jobs for future generations. They care about making money right now, today. And if they don't, they go out of business if they can't make up the higher costs of labor that your socialist policies are going to cost them, AND you're going to curb or take away their ability to automate, computerize, or innovate, and that ain't a good thing for future generations either. And not only that, you're really going to hurt startups and investments in business expansion.
Trillions a year? No. I am not suggesting we replace the income people have now. I am talking about it being a supplement to only those who NEED it most.
Okay, but now you're not talking about UBI anymore, you're talking about something else and I don't know what that is.
2) Productivity among workers and profits are at an all time high. They can afford a raise, they just choose not to.
I don't think you fully appreciate the thin line between profit and loss in so many small businesses and franchises in this country. You're making some off-the-cuff assumptions here without really knowing what the actual impact would be. And here again you're going to seriously impact business startups and expansion when you start mandating wages and prices.
3) Do you know how much we spend per year on defense? We can definitely afford it. The overall cost would save us money. We spend more per capita on healthcare than most developed nations do. What're you going to do, shelve the entire defense industry? The latest Defense Appropriations bill is for about $675 billion, how much of that are you going to slash? Good luck convincing Repubs and Dems alike how much you're going to cut the money going to their states.
And healthcare? Wait, aren't you the guy that wants the public option? Didn't I mention the VA in my last post, do you realize how fucked up that is? I doubt there are too many other countries around the world who are really happy with their gov't run HC system. And the cost is catastrophic, didn't I mention the failure of the HC systems in Vermont and ow other states have turned it down? There's a reason for that you know.
4) Climate change is real whether you like it or not. But not as real as you think, whether you like it or not either. How much money are you going to spend on this?

Of course these solutions aren’t cheap, but we can afford them. Part of that process will be closing loopholes and deductions because the EFFECTIVE, not official, tax rate is too low for corporations

No shit, your solutions are very expensive. You say we can afford them but I say no way in hell. And the effective tax rate for US corps is pretty much in line with every other industrialized country, is it not? And that ain't going to cut it dude, you aren't going to get enough revenue to even come close to doing what you want to do. I remember when Bernie Sanders was running for Prez, he came out with a lot of these ideas and put some numbers up too. Which I thought was pretty brave on his part, and he got shot down big time and not just by the Right either.

Sure, go to the American people and tell them you're going to cut defense by what, 50%? Then go to Congress and tell them which bases and programs you're going to cut to get down by 50%, let's see how far you get. Then let's see your numbers for the public option, I assume you're going to tell those of us on Medicare/Medicaid that we won't have that anymore. You might have a bit of resistance there I think. Then tell me what your idea is for UBI that isn't going to be universal, who gets what. And then try to sell the American people on how much you want to spend on Climate Change; I don't think you're going to find many Dems lining up behind you for all that.

Having said all that, I commend you for putting all this out there for us to shoot at. You put some time and thought into it, bravo!

The important thing to do is to tax the rich... Right now they pay less percentage-wise than much of the middle class... That is insane. Good vacations minimum wage living wage paid parental leave cost nothing. Cheap college and and training and infrastructure cost money. You dupes will take it up the ass forever I guess LOL arrrrgggghhhh

I take it that you like to spend other peoples money, huh? Once that money is gone they'll be coming after yours, Frankie.
Be careful what you wish for.

 

[francoHFW]

I don't think Billy is talking about a socialist gov't country like Cuba, N Korea, and Venezuela, I think he means a socialist democracy like Denmark or Sweden. The problem is that most of those places aren't doing so hot these days, with sky-high taxes and so many Muslim immigrants from Africa and the ME. Yeah, it's great to have all that free stuff, but EVERYBODY pays for it, not just the rich guys and big corps. For starters, everybody pays a VAT when they buy stuff, somewhere around 20%.

Their median wage is higher AFTER taxes than the median wage here.

Then why don't they have the ability to buy homes as easily as we can? Why are they limited to staying in the family homestead? Italy is another socialist paradise and a friend of ours is the first one in her family to be able to buy a house in fifty years. She lived like a pauper for twenty years to be able to do it. In Japan they have multi generational mortgages to make it even possible for a family to buy a home.

Me thinks you need to read something other than your myopic socialist rag to get a better view of the real world.

This is purely a guess, but I think in most European countries the family home is passed down from one generation to the next, grandma and grandpa live there with the family until they die. And they just don't have the space that we do to build new housing developments. And you don't see a lot of grass, they plant flowers or stuff to eat.

Been awhile since I was there (30 years), but the price of a lot of stuff like food and clothing and gas is a lot higher than here.

Exactly. EVERYTHING costs more in Europe. We have a flat in Paris that has been passed down in my wifes family for over 400 years. If she didn't already own it there is no way we could afford to buy it.

Paris? Please it is very expensive there.

You have to compare it with San Francisco and you know how that goes...

 

[task0778]

The important thing to do is to tax the rich... Right now they pay less percentage-wise than much of the middle class... That is insane. Good vacations minimum wage living wage paid parental leave cost nothing. Cheap college and and training and infrastructure cost money. You dupes will take it up the ass forever I guess LOL arrrrgggghhhh

"Good vacations minimum wage living wage paid parental leave cost nothing."

Oh really?

 

[francoHFW]

And you think raising taxes on the rich guys can pay for all that? Let's go through it line by line:

Automation: I take it you want to tax robots and/or automation. You don't see the squeeze you're putting on small businesses? Automation, innovation, computerization is called progress by some. And UBI, do you realize how much that would cost to implement? We're talking trillions every year. There's a reason why the voters in Switzerland turned this idea down.

Minimum wage: Yeah sure, first we curb automation and them we force employers to pay more for basic labor. You don't foresee the consequences? There would be a lot of small businesses that would quit, there's no way they could make ends meet. We ain't talking about the top 1% guys here, you know.

Public Option: There's a reason why it failed in Vermont and the voters in Colorado and California lawmakers shot it down. It's just too freakin' expensive and the quality of care is reduced dramatically. People die waiting for certain types of care. Look at our VA here, it's basically a public option and it totally sucks for our vets.

Climate Change/Drought/Natural Disasters: How will a socialist policy work any better than a capitalist one? And I don't anybody but you guys gives a crap about climate change.

Infrastructure: So why would this be any different under a socialist policy than a capitalist one?

Appreciate the effort you made here. But all this stuff you want to do is not cheap. The social democracies that have some of these policies also tax everybody big time, and i mean EVERYBODY, not just the upper 50%.

1) Automation: it would come with an economic cost to any business, but the cost would pail in comparison to the benefit of securing jobs for future generations. I think you underestimate how big of a problem this issue is. Today's business people don't give a damn about securing jobs for future generations. They care about making money right now, today. And if they don't, they go out of business if they can't make up the higher costs of labor that your socialist policies are going to cost them, AND you're going to curb or take away their ability to automate, computerize, or innovate, and that ain't a good thing for future generations either. And not only that, you're really going to hurt startups and investments in business expansion.
Trillions a year? No. I am not suggesting we replace the income people have now. I am talking about it being a supplement to only those who NEED it most.
Okay, but now you're not talking about UBI anymore, you're talking about something else and I don't know what that is.
2) Productivity among workers and profits are at an all time high. They can afford a raise, they just choose not to.
I don't think you fully appreciate the thin line between profit and loss in so many small businesses and franchises in this country. You're making some off-the-cuff assumptions here without really knowing what the actual impact would be. And here again you're going to seriously impact business startups and expansion when you start mandating wages and prices.
3) Do you know how much we spend per year on defense? We can definitely afford it. The overall cost would save us money. We spend more per capita on healthcare than most developed nations do. What're you going to do, shelve the entire defense industry? The latest Defense Appropriations bill is for about $675 billion, how much of that are you going to slash? Good luck convincing Repubs and Dems alike how much you're going to cut the money going to their states.
And healthcare? Wait, aren't you the guy that wants the public option? Didn't I mention the VA in my last post, do you realize how fucked up that is? I doubt there are too many other countries around the world who are really happy with their gov't run HC system. And the cost is catastrophic, didn't I mention the failure of the HC systems in Vermont and ow other states have turned it down? There's a reason for that you know.
4) Climate change is real whether you like it or not. But not as real as you think, whether you like it or not either. How much money are you going to spend on this?

Of course these solutions aren’t cheap, but we can afford them. Part of that process will be closing loopholes and deductions because the EFFECTIVE, not official, tax rate is too low for corporations

No shit, your solutions are very expensive. You say we can afford them but I say no way in hell. And the effective tax rate for US corps is pretty much in line with every other industrialized country, is it not? And that ain't going to cut it dude, you aren't going to get enough revenue to even come close to doing what you want to do. I remember when Bernie Sanders was running for Prez, he came out with a lot of these ideas and put some numbers up too. Which I thought was pretty brave on his part, and he got shot down big time and not just by the Right either.

Sure, go to the American people and tell them you're going to cut defense by what, 50%? Then go to Congress and tell them which bases and programs you're going to cut to get down by 50%, let's see how far you get. Then let's see your numbers for the public option, I assume you're going to tell those of us on Medicare/Medicaid that we won't have that anymore. You might have a bit of resistance there I think. Then tell me what your idea is for UBI that isn't going to be universal, who gets what. And then try to sell the American people on how much you want to spend on Climate Change; I don't think you're going to find many Dems lining up behind you for all that.

Having said all that, I commend you for putting all this out there for us to shoot at. You put some time and thought into it, bravo!

The important thing to do is to tax the rich... Right now they pay less percentage-wise than much of the middle class... That is insane. Good vacations minimum wage living wage paid parental leave cost nothing. Cheap college and and training and infrastructure cost money. You dupes will take it up the ass forever I guess LOL arrrrgggghhhh

I take it that you like to spend other peoples money, huh? Once that money is gone they'll be coming after yours, Frankie.
Be careful what you wish for.

Bulshit... They do just fine in Europe etcetera with taxing the rich... You idiots in the GOP, there has always progressive income taxes and for good reason. The rich are ridiculously bloated, we have the worst inequality and upward Mobility of any modern country, and you obsess over fake scandals and character assassination. Who needs evidence?

 

[task0778]

And you think raising taxes on the rich guys can pay for all that? Let's go through it line by line:

Automation: I take it you want to tax robots and/or automation. You don't see the squeeze you're putting on small businesses? Automation, innovation, computerization is called progress by some. And UBI, do you realize how much that would cost to implement? We're talking trillions every year. There's a reason why the voters in Switzerland turned this idea down.

Minimum wage: Yeah sure, first we curb automation and them we force employers to pay more for basic labor. You don't foresee the consequences? There would be a lot of small businesses that would quit, there's no way they could make ends meet. We ain't talking about the top 1% guys here, you know.

Public Option: There's a reason why it failed in Vermont and the voters in Colorado and California lawmakers shot it down. It's just too freakin' expensive and the quality of care is reduced dramatically. People die waiting for certain types of care. Look at our VA here, it's basically a public option and it totally sucks for our vets.

Climate Change/Drought/Natural Disasters: How will a socialist policy work any better than a capitalist one? And I don't anybody but you guys gives a crap about climate change.

Infrastructure: So why would this be any different under a socialist policy than a capitalist one?

Appreciate the effort you made here. But all this stuff you want to do is not cheap. The social democracies that have some of these policies also tax everybody big time, and i mean EVERYBODY, not just the upper 50%.

1) Automation: it would come with an economic cost to any business, but the cost would pail in comparison to the benefit of securing jobs for future generations. I think you underestimate how big of a problem this issue is. Today's business people don't give a damn about securing jobs for future generations. They care about making money right now, today. And if they don't, they go out of business if they can't make up the higher costs of labor that your socialist policies are going to cost them, AND you're going to curb or take away their ability to automate, computerize, or innovate, and that ain't a good thing for future generations either. And not only that, you're really going to hurt startups and investments in business expansion.
Trillions a year? No. I am not suggesting we replace the income people have now. I am talking about it being a supplement to only those who NEED it most.
Okay, but now you're not talking about UBI anymore, you're talking about something else and I don't know what that is.
2) Productivity among workers and profits are at an all time high. They can afford a raise, they just choose not to.
I don't think you fully appreciate the thin line between profit and loss in so many small businesses and franchises in this country. You're making some off-the-cuff assumptions here without really knowing what the actual impact would be. And here again you're going to seriously impact business startups and expansion when you start mandating wages and prices.
3) Do you know how much we spend per year on defense? We can definitely afford it. The overall cost would save us money. We spend more per capita on healthcare than most developed nations do. What're you going to do, shelve the entire defense industry? The latest Defense Appropriations bill is for about $675 billion, how much of that are you going to slash? Good luck convincing Repubs and Dems alike how much you're going to cut the money going to their states.
And healthcare? Wait, aren't you the guy that wants the public option? Didn't I mention the VA in my last post, do you realize how fucked up that is? I doubt there are too many other countries around the world who are really happy with their gov't run HC system. And the cost is catastrophic, didn't I mention the failure of the HC systems in Vermont and ow other states have turned it down? There's a reason for that you know.
4) Climate change is real whether you like it or not. But not as real as you think, whether you like it or not either. How much money are you going to spend on this?

Of course these solutions aren’t cheap, but we can afford them. Part of that process will be closing loopholes and deductions because the EFFECTIVE, not official, tax rate is too low for corporations

No shit, your solutions are very expensive. You say we can afford them but I say no way in hell. And the effective tax rate for US corps is pretty much in line with every other industrialized country, is it not? And that ain't going to cut it dude, you aren't going to get enough revenue to even come close to doing what you want to do. I remember when Bernie Sanders was running for Prez, he came out with a lot of these ideas and put some numbers up too. Which I thought was pretty brave on his part, and he got shot down big time and not just by the Right either.

Sure, go to the American people and tell them you're going to cut defense by what, 50%? Then go to Congress and tell them which bases and programs you're going to cut to get down by 50%, let's see how far you get. Then let's see your numbers for the public option, I assume you're going to tell those of us on Medicare/Medicaid that we won't have that anymore. You might have a bit of resistance there I think. Then tell me what your idea is for UBI that isn't going to be universal, who gets what. And then try to sell the American people on how much you want to spend on Climate Change; I don't think you're going to find many Dems lining up behind you for all that.

Having said all that, I commend you for putting all this out there for us to shoot at. You put some time and thought into it, bravo!

The important thing to do is to tax the rich... Right now they pay less percentage-wise than much of the middle class... That is insane. Good vacations minimum wage living wage paid parental leave cost nothing. Cheap college and and training and infrastructure cost money. You dupes will take it up the ass forever I guess LOL arrrrgggghhhh

I take it that you like to spend other peoples money, huh? Once that money is gone they'll be coming after yours, Frankie.
Be careful what you wish for.

Bulshit... They do just fine in Europe etcetera with taxing the rich... You idiots in the GOP, there has always progressive income taxes and for good reason. The rich are ridiculously bloated, we have the worst inequality and upward Mobility of any modern country, and you obsess over fake scandals and character assassination. Who needs evidence?

In Europe they tax everybody. As in EVERYBODY, you know what a VAT tax is? Most European countries pay 20-25% vat tax and then they pay income tax on top of that, on every freakin' penny they earn. None of this bottom 50% don't pay anything stuff.

 

[francoHFW]

The important thing to do is to tax the rich... Right now they pay less percentage-wise than much of the middle class... That is insane. Good vacations minimum wage living wage paid parental leave cost nothing. Cheap college and and training and infrastructure cost money. You dupes will take it up the ass forever I guess LOL arrrrgggghhhh

"Good vacations minimum wage living wage paid parental leave cost nothing."

Oh really?

That's right d******, productivity goes up unemployment goes down. GOP voters are the worst in the world brainwashed and stupid racists... Yeah you.

And you think raising taxes on the rich guys can pay for all that? Let's go through it line by line:

Automation: I take it you want to tax robots and/or automation. You don't see the squeeze you're putting on small businesses? Automation, innovation, computerization is called progress by some. And UBI, do you realize how much that would cost to implement? We're talking trillions every year. There's a reason why the voters in Switzerland turned this idea down.

Minimum wage: Yeah sure, first we curb automation and them we force employers to pay more for basic labor. You don't foresee the consequences? There would be a lot of small businesses that would quit, there's no way they could make ends meet. We ain't talking about the top 1% guys here, you know.

Public Option: There's a reason why it failed in Vermont and the voters in Colorado and California lawmakers shot it down. It's just too freakin' expensive and the quality of care is reduced dramatically. People die waiting for certain types of care. Look at our VA here, it's basically a public option and it totally sucks for our vets.

Climate Change/Drought/Natural Disasters: How will a socialist policy work any better than a capitalist one? And I don't anybody but you guys gives a crap about climate change.

Infrastructure: So why would this be any different under a socialist policy than a capitalist one?

Appreciate the effort you made here. But all this stuff you want to do is not cheap. The social democracies that have some of these policies also tax everybody big time, and i mean EVERYBODY, not just the upper 50%.

1) Automation: it would come with an economic cost to any business, but the cost would pail in comparison to the benefit of securing jobs for future generations. I think you underestimate how big of a problem this issue is. Today's business people don't give a damn about securing jobs for future generations. They care about making money right now, today. And if they don't, they go out of business if they can't make up the higher costs of labor that your socialist policies are going to cost them, AND you're going to curb or take away their ability to automate, computerize, or innovate, and that ain't a good thing for future generations either. And not only that, you're really going to hurt startups and investments in business expansion.
Trillions a year? No. I am not suggesting we replace the income people have now. I am talking about it being a supplement to only those who NEED it most.
Okay, but now you're not talking about UBI anymore, you're talking about something else and I don't know what that is.
2) Productivity among workers and profits are at an all time high. They can afford a raise, they just choose not to.
I don't think you fully appreciate the thin line between profit and loss in so many small businesses and franchises in this country. You're making some off-the-cuff assumptions here without really knowing what the actual impact would be. And here again you're going to seriously impact business startups and expansion when you start mandating wages and prices.
3) Do you know how much we spend per year on defense? We can definitely afford it. The overall cost would save us money. We spend more per capita on healthcare than most developed nations do. What're you going to do, shelve the entire defense industry? The latest Defense Appropriations bill is for about $675 billion, how much of that are you going to slash? Good luck convincing Repubs and Dems alike how much you're going to cut the money going to their states.
And healthcare? Wait, aren't you the guy that wants the public option? Didn't I mention the VA in my last post, do you realize how fucked up that is? I doubt there are too many other countries around the world who are really happy with their gov't run HC system. And the cost is catastrophic, didn't I mention the failure of the HC systems in Vermont and ow other states have turned it down? There's a reason for that you know.
4) Climate change is real whether you like it or not. But not as real as you think, whether you like it or not either. How much money are you going to spend on this?

Of course these solutions aren’t cheap, but we can afford them. Part of that process will be closing loopholes and deductions because the EFFECTIVE, not official, tax rate is too low for corporations

No shit, your solutions are very expensive. You say we can afford them but I say no way in hell. And the effective tax rate for US corps is pretty much in line with every other industrialized country, is it not? And that ain't going to cut it dude, you aren't going to get enough revenue to even come close to doing what you want to do. I remember when Bernie Sanders was running for Prez, he came out with a lot of these ideas and put some numbers up too. Which I thought was pretty brave on his part, and he got shot down big time and not just by the Right either.

Sure, go to the American people and tell them you're going to cut defense by what, 50%? Then go to Congress and tell them which bases and programs you're going to cut to get down by 50%, let's see how far you get. Then let's see your numbers for the public option, I assume you're going to tell those of us on Medicare/Medicaid that we won't have that anymore. You might have a bit of resistance there I think. Then tell me what your idea is for UBI that isn't going to be universal, who gets what. And then try to sell the American people on how much you want to spend on Climate Change; I don't think you're going to find many Dems lining up behind you.

Having said all that, I commend you for putting all this out there for us to shoot at. You put some time and thought into it, bravo!

1) Innovation means jack shit if it threatens the quality of life of future generations. I’m not exaggerating when I say that is threatened.

2) UBI’s definition does include it being a supplement for the most vulnerable of populations.

3) We spend more on defense than our top allies do COMBINED. We can definitely afford some dramatic cuts. A 50% cut wouldn’t be necessary. I’m talking about cutting with a scalpel, not a sledge hammer.

4) You seem to forget about the success of socialized medicine in other nations. Western Europe, Canada, Australia, and Japan have healthcare systems superior to ours in terms of accessibility for the poor and middle class. In this country, the poor get fucked when it comes to vital healthcare. Again, our current healthcare system spends more per capita than any other developed nation. Medicare or Medicaid wouldn’t be so expensive if the cost of buying it from greedy healthcare companies wasn’t so high. There are drugs sold in other countries by the same industries here for a fraction of the cost. That’s because those nations put caps on how high drugs can be sold for.

5) I’m not sure how much it will cost to help mitigate climate change, but doing nothing will fuck us over.

It seems you would do well to immigrate to one of these nations you so admire.

If you go to Europe, you might find a job (they are pretty particular in that regard...when it comes to outsiders) or you might need to drive a cab. You'll still get your health care which will keep you alive as you live out your days in some tiny overpriced apartment.

Don't be such a jackass. They do not accept Americans. Thanks for Wrecking the the middle class, silly doop.

Demise of the American Middle Class In Numbers.

Over the past 35 years the American dream has gradually disappeared. The process was slow, so most people didn’t notice. They just worked a few more hours, borrowed a little more and cut back on non-essentials. But looking at the numbers and comparing them over long time periods, it is obvious that things have changed drastically. Here are the details:

1. WORKERS PRODUCE MORE BUT THE GAINS GO TO BUSINESS.

Over the past 63 years worker productivity has grown by 2.0% per year.

But after 1980, workers received a smaller share every year. Labor’s share of income (1992 = 100%):

1950 = 101%
1960 = 105%
1970 = 105%
1980 = 105% – Reagan
1990 = 100%
2000 = 96%
2007 = 92%

A 13% drop since 1980

2. THE TOP 10% GET A LARGER SHARE.

Share of National Income going to Top 10%:

1950 = 35%
1960 = 34%
1970 = 34%
1980 = 34% – Reagan
1990 = 40%
2000 = 47%
2007 = 50%

An increase of 16% since Reagan.

3. WORKERS COMPENSATED FOR THE LOSS OF INCOME BY SPENDING THEIR SAVINGS.

The savings Rose up to Reagan and fell during and after.

1950 = 6.0%
1960 = 7.0%
1970 = 8.5%
1980 = 10.0% – Reagan
1982 = 11.2% – Peak
1990 = 7.0%
2000 = 2.0%
2006 = -1.1% (Negative = withdrawing from savings)

A 12.3% drop after Reagan.

4. WORKERS ALSO BORROWED TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS.

Household Debt as percentage of GDP:

1965 = 46%
1970 = 45%
1980 = 50% – Reagan
1990 = 61%
2000 = 69%
2007 = 95%

A 45% increase after 1980.

5. SO THE GAP BETWEEN THE RICHEST AND THE POOREST HAS GROWN.

Gap Between the Share of Capital Income earned by the top 1%
and the bottom 80%:

1980 = 10%
2003 = 56%

A 5.6 times increase.

6. AND THE AMERICAN DREAM IS GONE.

The Probably of Moving Up from the Bottom 40% to the Top 40%:

1945 = 12%
1958 = 6%
1990 = 3%
2000 = 2%

A 10% Decrease.

Links:

1 = ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/pf/totalf1.txt
1 = https://www.clevelandfed.org/Research/PolicyDis/No7Nov04.pdf
1 = Clipboard01.jpg (image)
2 – http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/blog/09/04/27/CongratulationstoEmmanuelSaez/
3 = http://www.demos.org/inequality/images/charts/uspersonalsaving_thumb.gif
3 = U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)
4 = Federated Prudent Bear Fund (A): Overview
4 = The Fed - Financial Accounts of the United States - Z.1 - Current Release
5/6 = 15 Mind-Blowing Facts About Wealth And Inequality In America

Overview = http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010062415/reagan-revolution-home-roost-charts