one nation, under god

[SFC Ollie]

There is no what if's.........

Now, if a child refuses to stand for the pledge then I would say that the teacher has a responsibility to work with the child and the childs parents to teach that child the respect for others in the room.

They shouldn't be forced to say or even learn the pledge, but when it is being said they should at least learn the respect to stand quietly.

I'm sure some of you have a problem with that to. Too bad for you.

So the non-believer should be taught to show respect for the believers, but the believers not taught to show respect for the non-believer.


Somehow that post of yours didn't surprise me.

And how is it showing any disrespect to the non-believer? They can stand there and laugh to themselves for all I would care.

Let me explain with an example. As the current Commander of my local American Legion Post i attend a lot of functions, many times i attend a funeral service in a catholic church. I do not participate in many of their rituals, because it is not my belief. If they get on their knees I sit quietly, when they get in line for their communion or whatever they call it I remain in my place. But I show their religion respect.

Common courtesy. It really does go a long way.

Now should they change their service because someone who believes differently is there?

On Saturday evening i will be hosting an Awards banquet for some of the local HS kids. (In my capacity as Commander) It is not a religious event, and there will be no clergy there. However, we will post the flags and before diner I will ask the Post Chaplain to say grace. I bet that no matter what the religion of those kids might be, they and their parents will stand up for the prayer.

Respect, it really is as simple as that.............

 

[Againsheila]

There is no what if's.........

Now, if a child refuses to stand for the pledge then I would say that the teacher has a responsibility to work with the child and the childs parents to teach that child the respect for others in the room.

They shouldn't be forced to say or even learn the pledge, but when it is being said they should at least learn the respect to stand quietly.

I'm sure some of you have a problem with that to. Too bad for you.

So the non-believer should be taught to show respect for the believers, but the believers not taught to show respect for the non-believer.


Somehow that post of yours didn't surprise me.

hiding my belief is not showing respect to non believers.

 

[Dr.Drock]

There is no what if's.........

Now, if a child refuses to stand for the pledge then I would say that the teacher has a responsibility to work with the child and the childs parents to teach that child the respect for others in the room.

They shouldn't be forced to say or even learn the pledge, but when it is being said they should at least learn the respect to stand quietly.

I'm sure some of you have a problem with that to. Too bad for you.

So the non-believer should be taught to show respect for the believers, but the believers not taught to show respect for the non-believer.


Somehow that post of yours didn't surprise me.

And how is it showing any disrespect to the non-believer? They can stand there and laugh to themselves for all I would care.

Let me explain with an example. As the current Commander of my local American Legion Post i attend a lot of functions, many times i attend a funeral service in a catholic church. I do not participate in many of their rituals, because it is not my belief. If they get on their knees I sit quietly, when they get in line for their communion or whatever they call it I remain in my place. But I show their religion respect.

Common courtesy. It really does go a long way.

Now should they change their service because someone who believes differently is there?

On Saturday evening i will be hosting an Awards banquet for some of the local HS kids. (In my capacity as Commander) It is not a religious event, and there will be no clergy there. However, we will post the flags and before diner I will ask the Post Chaplain to say grace. I bet that no matter what the religion of those kids might be, they and their parents will stand up for the prayer.

Respect, it really is as simple as that.............

So standing and laughing is showing respect? I think rather than be divisive we should make this a non-issue and either not say it at all or take god out.

Church and public schools shouldn't be held to the same standard. Someone shouldn't have to go through a ritual with religious inclinations cuz gov't says so.

When i'm asked to stand for prayer or bow my head at a funeral or get together or what have you I do it and just don't pray. But for those who don't want their child subjected to being singled out in school because of their religious views, I can totally understand.

 

[Katzndogz]

Socialists/Progressives are such assholes. All that snotty hateful Anti-Christian stuff has gotten so old and tiresome. This lawsuit is such Bullshit. I really do hope these people are made to reimburse the community when they lose. It's ridiculous & frivolous.

They're being excluded due to gov't endorsement of religion dummy.

Current case law maintains that ‘under god’ is Constitutional, that Congress’ intent was secular, and not intended to promote religion.

Pledge of Allegiance in Schools Ruled Constitutional on Appeal - Bloomberg

Of course children can not be compelled to say the pledge, nor may they be punished for wishing to opt out. See:
West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette

This can prove problematic for a child, needless to say, as already pointed out. But the suit is likely to fail, unfortunately.

I read a story in the paper where a young girl had to go stand out in the hallway so the drones could recite the "amended" (god added in 1954) pledge. Aint that marvelous? It was adopted to counter the red scare. Reminds me of Orwellian group think. Take it out.

If she didn't want to hear something so offensive should should have stood in the hallway in another school.

 

[JakeStarkey]

A Catholic Church is not a public school. Different rules when the taxpayers money is invovled.

 

[Dot Com]

This nation has done exceptionally well for over 200 years with God's Name being invoked.

Now, because we have a high number of over-sensitive whiny atheists, we're expected to remove it all??

The freedom to say His name is what helped shore up your right to be a selfish bitch.
Yen and Yang

On pledge for about 60 years....on money about 100 years. Not how we started....seems to me the whiney ones are those that had it CHANGED to get their god some advertising.

"Creator", "God"....same diff

We used to be unafraid to say His name.
Now, with the arrival of extreme PC, we kick Him to the curb.

Not a wise move IMO

"His"? Are you referencing a particular god?
Thomas Jefferson quotes

In spite of right-wing Christian attempts to rewrite history to make Jefferson into a Christian, little about his philosophy resembles that of Christianity. Although Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence wrote of the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God, there exists nothing in the Declaration about Christianity. Although Jefferson believed in a Creator, his concept of it resembled that of the god of deism (the term "Nature's God" used by deists of the time).

 

[Lonestar_logic]

On pledge for about 60 years....on money about 100 years. Not how we started....seems to me the whiney ones are those that had it CHANGED to get their god some advertising.

"Creator", "God"....same diff

We used to be unafraid to say His name.
Now, with the arrival of extreme PC, we kick Him to the curb.

Not a wise move IMO

"His"? Are you referencing a particular god?
Thomas Jefferson quotes

In spite of right-wing Christian attempts to rewrite history to make Jefferson into a Christian, little about his philosophy resembles that of Christianity. Although Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence wrote of the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God, there exists nothing in the Declaration about Christianity. Although Jefferson believed in a Creator, his concept of it resembled that of the god of deism (the term "Nature's God" used by deists of the time).

Ever read the Jefferson Bible?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jeffersonian language for deity could be embraced the men of enlightenment, whether Christian, deist, or polytheist. No intended "His" can be deduced from the language to argue that Jefferson meant Jesus Christ.

 

[JakeStarkey]

"Creator", "God"....same diff

We used to be unafraid to say His name.
Now, with the arrival of extreme PC, we kick Him to the curb.

Not a wise move IMO

"His"? Are you referencing a particular god?
Thomas Jefferson quotes

In spite of right-wing Christian attempts to rewrite history to make Jefferson into a Christian, little about his philosophy resembles that of Christianity. Although Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence wrote of the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God, there exists nothing in the Declaration about Christianity. Although Jefferson believed in a Creator, his concept of it resembled that of the god of deism (the term "Nature's God" used by deists of the time).

Ever read the Jefferson Bible?

Sure have. TJ did not understand Jesus Christ to be more or less than the perfectly moral who ever lived. TJ did not believe in miracles, the Virgin Birth, the resurrection, or wicked priestcraft.

 

[AmericanFirst]

it was inserted during the cold war.

last time i checked, the cold war was over.

buh-bye

Words matter. Those words "under god" were placed there to divide us, and replaced "indivisible," which included everyone as a citizen and stakeholder, uniting everyone.

Did not replace indivisible, which is still in the pledge. Facts are funny aren't they? They are so elusive.

 

[SFC Ollie]

So the non-believer should be taught to show respect for the believers, but the believers not taught to show respect for the non-believer.


Somehow that post of yours didn't surprise me.

And how is it showing any disrespect to the non-believer? They can stand there and laugh to themselves for all I would care.

Let me explain with an example. As the current Commander of my local American Legion Post i attend a lot of functions, many times i attend a funeral service in a catholic church. I do not participate in many of their rituals, because it is not my belief. If they get on their knees I sit quietly, when they get in line for their communion or whatever they call it I remain in my place. But I show their religion respect.

Common courtesy. It really does go a long way.

Now should they change their service because someone who believes differently is there?

On Saturday evening i will be hosting an Awards banquet for some of the local HS kids. (In my capacity as Commander) It is not a religious event, and there will be no clergy there. However, we will post the flags and before diner I will ask the Post Chaplain to say grace. I bet that no matter what the religion of those kids might be, they and their parents will stand up for the prayer.

Respect, it really is as simple as that.............

So standing and laughing is showing respect? I think rather than be divisive we should make this a non-issue and either not say it at all or take god out.

Church and public schools shouldn't be held to the same standard. Someone shouldn't have to go through a ritual with religious inclinations cuz gov't says so.

When i'm asked to stand for prayer or bow my head at a funeral or get together or what have you I do it and just don't pray. But for those who don't want their child subjected to being singled out in school because of their religious views, I can totally understand.

It's the same damned thing in school the kid can simply stand there, chances are the other students would never know unless the kid made an issue of it.....

And do try to understand I said laugh to themselves. No one else would hear it....

Really, the stupidity level on this board is really growing recently.......

 

[Lonestar_logic]

"His"? Are you referencing a particular god?
Thomas Jefferson quotes

Ever read the Jefferson Bible?

Sure have. TJ did not understand Jesus Christ to be more or less than the perfectly moral who ever lived. TJ did not believe in miracles, the Virgin Birth, the resurrection, or wicked priestcraft.

----- Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse, June 26, 1822
Dear Sir,- I have received and read with thankfulness and pleasure your denunciation of the abuses of tobacco and wine. Yet, however sound in its principles, I expect it will be but a sermon to the wind. You will find it as difficult to inculcate these sanative precepts on the sensualities of the present day, as to convince an Athanasian that there is but one God. I wish success to both attempts, and am happy to learn from you that the latter, at least, is making progress, and the more rapidly in proportion as our Platonizing Christians make more stir and noise about it. The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man.

1. That there is one only God, and he all perfect.
2. That there is a future state of rewards and punishments.
3. That to love God with all thy heart and thy neighbor as thyself, is the sum of religion

 

[jillian]

Ever read the Jefferson Bible?

Sure have. TJ did not understand Jesus Christ to be more or less than the perfectly moral who ever lived. TJ did not believe in miracles, the Virgin Birth, the resurrection, or wicked priestcraft.

----- Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse, June 26, 1822
Dear Sir,- I have received and read with thankfulness and pleasure your denunciation of the abuses of tobacco and wine. Yet, however sound in its principles, I expect it will be but a sermon to the wind. You will find it as difficult to inculcate these sanative precepts on the sensualities of the present day, as to convince an Athanasian that there is but one God. I wish success to both attempts, and am happy to learn from you that the latter, at least, is making progress, and the more rapidly in proportion as our Platonizing Christians make more stir and noise about it. The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man.

1. That there is one only God, and he all perfect.
2. That there is a future state of rewards and punishments.
3. That to love God with all thy heart and thy neighbor as thyself, is the sum of religion

he believed in the "doctrines" of jesus... he did not believe in the deification of jesus and had all of the "miracles", etc, removed from the version of the bible he had made for himself.

he said G-d was perfect, not Jesus, which i believe fits with the fact that he was a deist. that's consistent with the above statements, as well, imo.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Ever read the Jefferson Bible?

Sure have. TJ did not understand Jesus Christ to be more or less than the perfectly moral who ever lived. TJ did not believe in miracles, the Virgin Birth, the resurrection, or wicked priestcraft.

----- Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse, June 26, 1822
Dear Sir,- I have received and read with thankfulness and pleasure your denunciation of the abuses of tobacco and wine. Yet, however sound in its principles, I expect it will be but a sermon to the wind. You will find it as difficult to inculcate these sanative precepts on the sensualities of the present day, as to convince an Athanasian that there is but one God. I wish success to both attempts, and am happy to learn from you that the latter, at least, is making progress, and the more rapidly in proportion as our Platonizing Christians make more stir and noise about it. The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man.

1. That there is one only God, and he all perfect.
2. That there is a future state of rewards and punishments.
3. That to love God with all thy heart and thy neighbor as thyself, is the sum of religion

No doubts that TJ believed in God. He did not believe it was the Christian God. You will find no statement of witness or conviction.

 

[Dot Com]

Sure have. TJ did not understand Jesus Christ to be more or less than the perfectly moral who ever lived. TJ did not believe in miracles, the Virgin Birth, the resurrection, or wicked priestcraft.

----- Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse, June 26, 1822
Dear Sir,- I have received and read with thankfulness and pleasure your denunciation of the abuses of tobacco and wine. Yet, however sound in its principles, I expect it will be but a sermon to the wind. You will find it as difficult to inculcate these sanative precepts on the sensualities of the present day, as to convince an Athanasian that there is but one God. I wish success to both attempts, and am happy to learn from you that the latter, at least, is making progress, and the more rapidly in proportion as our Platonizing Christians make more stir and noise about it. The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man.

1. That there is one only God, and he all perfect.
2. That there is a future state of rewards and punishments.
3. That to love God with all thy heart and thy neighbor as thyself, is the sum of religion

No doubts that TJ believed in God. He did not believe it was the Christian God. You will find no statement of witness or conviction.

yeah johnny reb jr:
Thomas Jefferson quotes

He rejected the superstitions and mysticism of Christianity and even went so far as to edit the gospels, removing the miracles and mysticism of Jesus (see The Jefferson Bible) leaving only what he deemed the correct moral philosophy of Jesus.

 

[Mustang]

Sure have. TJ did not understand Jesus Christ to be more or less than the perfectly moral who ever lived. TJ did not believe in miracles, the Virgin Birth, the resurrection, or wicked priestcraft.

----- Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse, June 26, 1822
Dear Sir,- I have received and read with thankfulness and pleasure your denunciation of the abuses of tobacco and wine. Yet, however sound in its principles, I expect it will be but a sermon to the wind. You will find it as difficult to inculcate these sanative precepts on the sensualities of the present day, as to convince an Athanasian that there is but one God. I wish success to both attempts, and am happy to learn from you that the latter, at least, is making progress, and the more rapidly in proportion as our Platonizing Christians make more stir and noise about it. The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man.

1. That there is one only God, and he all perfect.
2. That there is a future state of rewards and punishments.
3. That to love God with all thy heart and thy neighbor as thyself, is the sum of religion

No doubts that TJ believed in God. He did not believe it was the Christian God. You will find no statement of witness or conviction.

TJ said he was an Epicurean.

Epicureanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JakeStarkey]

He also said he was a Christian, a sect of one. He has to be read in the context of his writings and of the Age of Enlightenment.

 

[Mustang]

He also said he was a Christian, a sect of one. He has to be read in the context of his writings and of the Age of Enlightenment.

Epicureanism and Christianity are not compatible since Epicureans believe that the soul dies with the body.

 

[JakeStarkey]

He also said he was a Christian, a sect of one. He has to be read in the context of his writings and of the Age of Enlightenment.

Epicureanism and Christianity are not compatible since Epicureans believe that the soul dies with the body.

You are looking for consistency in TJ's writings?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Sure have. TJ did not understand Jesus Christ to be more or less than the perfectly moral who ever lived. TJ did not believe in miracles, the Virgin Birth, the resurrection, or wicked priestcraft.

----- Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse, June 26, 1822
Dear Sir,- I have received and read with thankfulness and pleasure your denunciation of the abuses of tobacco and wine. Yet, however sound in its principles, I expect it will be but a sermon to the wind. You will find it as difficult to inculcate these sanative precepts on the sensualities of the present day, as to convince an Athanasian that there is but one God. I wish success to both attempts, and am happy to learn from you that the latter, at least, is making progress, and the more rapidly in proportion as our Platonizing Christians make more stir and noise about it. The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man.

1. That there is one only God, and he all perfect.
2. That there is a future state of rewards and punishments.
3. That to love God with all thy heart and thy neighbor as thyself, is the sum of religion

he believed in the "doctrines" of jesus... he did not believe in the deification of jesus and had all of the "miracles", etc, removed from the version of the bible he had made for himself.

he said G-d was perfect, not Jesus, which i believe fits with the fact that he was a deist. that's consistent with the above statements, as well, imo.

He believed in God.