One of the following MUST be true about God

[RDD_1210]

Where you are wrong is in your assertion that the evidence supports your opinion, when in fact you have no evidence at all. You have claimed your position is one of logic, but you dont' use logic. I don't know if your assessment is right or wrong, nor do I care. God is an irrelevancy as far as I am concerned. But if you are going to hold your own beliefs (and belief is all it is) as reality, then I expect you to present some reality - not just your own insistence that the universe works a given way just because that is the way you want it to work.

So let me repeat my initial response to your OP. It is nothing but belief, no better than any other belief. And frankly, I am getting the feeling it is not a statement from someone who does not believe in God, but someone who is pissed off at the God he believes in. Because you seem to have a very clear idea of what God is.

I have PLENTY of evidence. You just fail to want to accept it. If I am misunderstanding what God is or capable of, then explain it to me. But you can't even do that. According to you, I'm wrong "just because" yet you don't feel the need to say why. Yup, you definitely sound like someone that would believe in an invisible man in the sky who lets babies suffer and die all while proclaiming god is all powerful and all loving.

I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that the guy you are arguing with doesn't believe in God. He just happens to be honest enough to see that your belief system is just as irrational as a person who claims that God told him to kill his neighbor.

Feel free to point out which part of my belief system is irrational. Is it the part where I can't understand why infants are made to suffer horrible diseases and die while an "loving and all powerful God" watches and does nothing? Is that what you mean by irrational belief system?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Wtf are you talking about? Learn to read.... He gave his own definition.

I did? Can you show me where?

Didn't think so.

So when you said this "omnipotent does not mean all knowing, it means all powerful.", you weren't giving a definition of the word omnipotent?

That is not my definition, that is the definition. I was providing it for a poster that appears to think omniscient and omnipotent are synonymous.

Omnipotence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

omnipotent - definition of omnipotent by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Omnipotent - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Does the fact that I can use a dictionary mean I am defining god? If so, does that make the dictionary god?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I provided multiple reasons in the OP.

Provide me a reason that God does exist. You are asking me to provide evidence of the absence of something, which I've done. But what you're asking is kind of like me saying, "You're a nazi, prove you're not".

You did not.

Let me check again.....yup I sure did. Time for another eye exam perhaps old man?

This is you OP.

1) God doesn't exist
2) God is incompetent
3) God doesn't give a shit

One of the three above statements must be true. Take a scenario that seems unexplainable when it comes to "Why would God do ____________?" Or 'Why would God allow _______"?

Children dying of cancer
Women being raped
Mass Genocide
The Holocaust
etc...

None of these events make any sense and would leave any sane person wondering how God plays a part in those events occurring. The answer is one of the above three options.

So which do you think is correct? 1, 2, 3?

Not a single reason to be seen, all that is there is an assumption that god has to prevent everything you don't like, and a wild leap to an unsustainable conclusion. I am sti are smarter than He is.ll waiting for you to answer my question about why you think you

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Alright, I'll let you explain why does God kill babies with Cancer?

Baby who fought cancer with mom dies - The Chart - CNN.com Blogs

Let me guess..."we aren't meant to know". Right??

Tell you what, prove God killed that baby and then we can discuss why He did so. Until you actually do that, which would actually require you to first prove God exists, I have no need to defend my position that God had nothing to do with that child dying.

God didn't stop it. Why is that? That's the point. If he's all powerful, he could have stopped it, correct? But he didn't. Why is that? I suspect because there is no God, but you say he didn't stop it because..........

This is where you tell me why God allowed that baby to suffer and die.

In order to argue that He did not stop it you have to start with the premise that He exists. If you start there, and then argue that Him not stopping it proves He does not exist, there is a serious flaw in your logic somewhere.

I will leave you with the task of finding it.

Hint: You cannot refute your own premise in an argument.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I have PLENTY of evidence. You just fail to want to accept it. If I am misunderstanding what God is or capable of, then explain it to me. But you can't even do that. According to you, I'm wrong "just because" yet you don't feel the need to say why. Yup, you definitely sound like someone that would believe in an invisible man in the sky who lets babies suffer and die all while proclaiming god is all powerful and all loving.

I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that the guy you are arguing with doesn't believe in God. He just happens to be honest enough to see that your belief system is just as irrational as a person who claims that God told him to kill his neighbor.

Feel free to point out which part of my belief system is irrational. Is it the part where I can't understand why infants are made to suffer horrible diseases and die while an "loving and all powerful God" watches and does nothing? Is that what you mean by irrational belief system?

I suggest you read my last post.

 

[RDD_1210]

I did? Can you show me where?

Didn't think so.

So when you said this "omnipotent does not mean all knowing, it means all powerful.", you weren't giving a definition of the word omnipotent?

That is not my definition, that is the definition. I was providing it for a poster that appears to think omniscient and omnipotent are synonymous.

Omnipotence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

omnipotent - definition of omnipotent by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Omnipotent - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Does the fact that I can use a dictionary mean I am defining god? If so, does that make the dictionary god?

So you're saying God isn't all powerful then. Got it.

 

[RDD_1210]

You did not.

Let me check again.....yup I sure did. Time for another eye exam perhaps old man?

This is you OP.

1) God doesn't exist
2) God is incompetent
3) God doesn't give a shit

One of the three above statements must be true. Take a scenario that seems unexplainable when it comes to "Why would God do ____________?" Or 'Why would God allow _______"?

Children dying of cancer
Women being raped
Mass Genocide
The Holocaust
etc...

None of these events make any sense and would leave any sane person wondering how God plays a part in those events occurring. The answer is one of the above three options.

So which do you think is correct? 1, 2, 3?

Not a single reason to be seen, all that is there is an assumption that god has to prevent everything you don't like, and a wild leap to an unsustainable conclusion. I am sti are smarter than He is.ll waiting for you to answer my question about why you think you

Can you translate this in to English for me so I can respond?

Are you drunk or just lazy?

 

[RDD_1210]

Tell you what, prove God killed that baby and then we can discuss why He did so. Until you actually do that, which would actually require you to first prove God exists, I have no need to defend my position that God had nothing to do with that child dying.

God didn't stop it. Why is that? That's the point. If he's all powerful, he could have stopped it, correct? But he didn't. Why is that? I suspect because there is no God, but you say he didn't stop it because..........

This is where you tell me why God allowed that baby to suffer and die.

In order to argue that He did not stop it you have to start with the premise that He exists. If you start there, and then argue that Him not stopping it proves He does not exist, there is a serious flaw in your logic somewhere.

I will leave you with the task of finding it.

Hint: You cannot refute your own premise in an argument.

I did start with the premise that he exists, then I was able to draw the conclusion that he probably doesn't exist once you examine the evidence. It is possible that he's incompetent or doesn't give a shit. But I am going with Occam's Razor for this one.

 

[RDD_1210]

I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that the guy you are arguing with doesn't believe in God. He just happens to be honest enough to see that your belief system is just as irrational as a person who claims that God told him to kill his neighbor.

Feel free to point out which part of my belief system is irrational. Is it the part where I can't understand why infants are made to suffer horrible diseases and die while an "loving and all powerful God" watches and does nothing? Is that what you mean by irrational belief system?

I suggest you read my last post.

I suggest you introduce logic into your argument.

 

[numan]

'

Shelley was an atheist.... He never trifled with the word "God"; he
knew that it meant a personal First Cause, Almighty Creator, and
Supreme Judge and Ruler of the Universe, and that it did not mean
anything else, never had meant anything else, and never, whilst the
English language lasted, would mean anything else. Knowing perfectly
well that there was no such person, he did not pretend that the
question was an open one, or imply, by calling himself an Agnostic,
that there might be such a person for all he knew to the contrary. He
did know to the contrary; and he said so.
---George Bernard Shaw
.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So when you said this "omnipotent does not mean all knowing, it means all powerful.", you weren't giving a definition of the word omnipotent?

That is not my definition, that is the definition. I was providing it for a poster that appears to think omniscient and omnipotent are synonymous.

Omnipotence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

omnipotent - definition of omnipotent by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Omnipotent - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Does the fact that I can use a dictionary mean I am defining god? If so, does that make the dictionary god?

So you're saying God isn't all powerful then. Got it.

Except I didn't say that because I didn't say anything about hwat God is, or isn't. All I did was point out that all powerful does not mean all knowing. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Does your inability to grasp simple concepts explain your delusion that you proved God does not exist?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

God didn't stop it. Why is that? That's the point. If he's all powerful, he could have stopped it, correct? But he didn't. Why is that? I suspect because there is no God, but you say he didn't stop it because..........

This is where you tell me why God allowed that baby to suffer and die.

In order to argue that He did not stop it you have to start with the premise that He exists. If you start there, and then argue that Him not stopping it proves He does not exist, there is a serious flaw in your logic somewhere.

I will leave you with the task of finding it.

Hint: You cannot refute your own premise in an argument.

I did start with the premise that he exists, then I was able to draw the conclusion that he probably doesn't exist once you examine the evidence. It is possible that he's incompetent or doesn't give a shit. But I am going with Occam's Razor for this one.

First, logic is not about evidence, it is about argument.
Second, you did not examine any evidence.
Third, are you trying to make rdean look intelligent?

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

1) God doesn't exist
2) God is incompetent
3) God doesn't give a shit

One of the three above statements must be true. Take a scenario that seems unexplainable when it comes to "Why would God do ____________?" Or 'Why would God allow _______"?

Children dying of cancer
Women being raped
Mass Genocide
The Holocaust
etc...

None of these events make any sense and would leave any sane person wondering how God plays a part in those events occurring. The answer is one of the above three options.

So which do you think is correct? 1, 2, 3?

Your answer to why does God allow women being raped, Mass Genocide, the Holocaust .....

God does not desire bad things to happen, however the book of Genesis 1:25-26 reads "Let us make man in Our image and let HIM have dominion over the earth". He gave the reins over to man to have "free will" on the earth, he won't impose Himself on someone. This is why salvation in the Christian faith is a personal "choice" for every individual to take. He laid out the rules to give MAN free choice and control over what happens on the earth, only when he or she ALLOWS them-self to surrender to what God wants, is God's will influenced in the earth.

For someone who doesn't believe in God.... Why exactly would you want Him to make choices of "who" to control on earth, be it the rapist or the man committing genocide, when you yourself don't want God or Christians influencing your OWN life? Ponder that question for a while RDD_1210.

 

[hortysir]

Yawn. We get it. You don't understand it, so that's you're "proof" that God doesn't exist.

Thanks for that.

Of course I don't understand it. Because it doesn't make any sense. Explain to me how you can believe in an all loving god that still manages to let infants suffer and die from cancer.

There's my proof, go ahead and use your infinite wisdom to explain it to me.

Until a certain age parents are accountable for the sins of their children.

Everything is for a reason.
Just because something happens doesn't mean it happens TO you.
It may happen FOR someone else.

 

[RDD_1210]

Yawn. We get it. You don't understand it, so that's you're "proof" that God doesn't exist.

Thanks for that.

Of course I don't understand it. Because it doesn't make any sense. Explain to me how you can believe in an all loving god that still manages to let infants suffer and die from cancer.

There's my proof, go ahead and use your infinite wisdom to explain it to me.

Until a certain age parents are accountable for the sins of their children.

Everything is for a reason.
Just because something happens doesn't mean it happens TO you.
It may happen FOR someone else.

So you can't explain it. Got it.

 

[Agent.Tom]

By the way--dying is seen as a bad thing only by people who lack faith.

The resources spent on health-care in this country say differently, ass-U-Me-ing the statistic is true that 70% of Americans are "believers".

First of all, I never said that suffering the pain and humiliation of acquiring a debilitating disease is preferable to Christians. Obamacare encompasses more than just CPR. Secondly, dying being a "good" thing is a concept shared by many religions and even some Eastern philosophies.

Beloved St. Paul said, "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain." He said that to live is to glorify Christ. To die is not only to glorify Christ but to finally be with Christ (thus the gain). But again, he concluded suicide is unacceptable because killing himself would be a selfish act.

Simply put, if we are alive, it's for good reason. Else we would be dead. And we are not God, should not play God, and therefore have no right to decide when anyone should die (and don't take that out of context... I'm speaking generally, not total pacifism).

 

[JohnA]

There are answers to the questions though. The Holy Spirit can reveal all truth.

Through what media? Will He send an e-mail? Phone call? Ancient story books?

I'm sorry Bro', but if that were true about truth being revealed to humanity by a Spirit who is Holy, history would be different.

The evidence says that the ancient stories are nothing more than what they appear to be and no more sacred than the words you're reading now.

Wrong. Not only is the basic premise incorrect, but the evidence doesn't say that at all. Which is why so many archaeologists, historians, and mathematicians are men and women of faith.

and so many are not

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

1) God doesn't exist
2) God is incompetent
3) God doesn't give a shit

One of the three above statements must be true. Take a scenario that seems unexplainable when it comes to "Why would God do ____________?" Or 'Why would God allow _______"?

Children dying of cancer
Women being raped
Mass Genocide
The Holocaust
etc...

None of these events make any sense and would leave any sane person wondering how God plays a part in those events occurring. The answer is one of the above three options.

So which do you think is correct? 1, 2, 3?

None of the above. You answered the question yourself. None of these events make any sense and would leave any sane person wondering how God plays a part in those events occuring. You answered it! ( Are you sane? )

He doesn't!

Had you read your bible you'd know Satan is the one who causes sickness, murder, death, disease, not God! God is a healer! I am the LORD that healeth thee! - Exodus

Satan is the one who requested permission from God to touch Jobs body - Job had a hedge of protection around him. God allowed Satan to test his servant but not kill him. In the end Job was rewarded double fold for his trouble and affliction.

Your problem here is that you are blaming the wrong one. Blame Satan. He is the one who has come to steal ( your health ) Kill ( murder ) destroy ( chaos ) in your life. Understand? Read your bible.

- Jeremiah

Doubling down on sky fairies by adding an evil one into the soap opera is hardly an explaination of sky fairy #1 ..the "good" one.

You could just add another make believe pixie for every situation that comes along into infinity.

Deconstructing "god" as a sheppard of humanity is as good as any place to start. The "devil" god seems to take a much more active role in the affairs of human endeavor than does the supposed "good" god. If there is truly a battle of wills and purpose between these two entities where is the evidense that praying evokes the good god's action?

There is none.

Therefore they said to Him [Jesus], “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do?" - John 6:30

These were among the 5000 that just ate from a basket that only had 5 barley loaves and 2 fish. People always ask for a sign when it comes to fulfilling a need, yet even if such a sign would appear, they would still turn away because they don't have any belief. The people didn't believe in God or Jesus even AFTER being witnesses and partakers of miracles. What honestly makes you think, should He provide an answer with some form of sign today things would somehow be different? Truth is, you aren't really seeking for an answer.

 

[HUGGY]

None of the above. You answered the question yourself. None of these events make any sense and would leave any sane person wondering how God plays a part in those events occuring. You answered it! ( Are you sane? )

He doesn't!

Had you read your bible you'd know Satan is the one who causes sickness, murder, death, disease, not God! God is a healer! I am the LORD that healeth thee! - Exodus

Satan is the one who requested permission from God to touch Jobs body - Job had a hedge of protection around him. God allowed Satan to test his servant but not kill him. In the end Job was rewarded double fold for his trouble and affliction.

Your problem here is that you are blaming the wrong one. Blame Satan. He is the one who has come to steal ( your health ) Kill ( murder ) destroy ( chaos ) in your life. Understand? Read your bible.

- Jeremiah

Doubling down on sky fairies by adding an evil one into the soap opera is hardly an explaination of sky fairy #1 ..the "good" one.

You could just add another make believe pixie for every situation that comes along into infinity.

Deconstructing "god" as a sheppard of humanity is as good as any place to start. The "devil" god seems to take a much more active role in the affairs of human endeavor than does the supposed "good" god. If there is truly a battle of wills and purpose between these two entities where is the evidense that praying evokes the good god's action?

There is none.

Therefore they said to Him [Jesus], “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do?" - John 6:30

These were among the 5000 that just ate from a basket that only had 5 barley loaves and 2 fish. People always ask for a sign when it comes to fulfilling a need, yet even if such a sign would appear, they would still turn away because they don't have any belief. The people didn't believe in God or Jesus even AFTER being witnesses and partakers of miracles. What honestly makes you think, should He provide an answer with some form of sign today things would somehow be different? Truth is, you aren't really seeking for an answer.

See ??? There you go with that nonsense again...

The only miracle I see at work here is how you expect a rational person to believe you.

You do know that you all are crazy...right?

 

[PratchettFan]

1) God doesn't exist
2) God is incompetent
3) God doesn't give a shit

One of the three above statements must be true. Take a scenario that seems unexplainable when it comes to "Why would God do ____________?" Or 'Why would God allow _______"?

Children dying of cancer
Women being raped
Mass Genocide
The Holocaust
etc...

None of these events make any sense and would leave any sane person wondering how God plays a part in those events occurring. The answer is one of the above three options.

So which do you think is correct? 1, 2, 3?

I personally think it's #3.

I believe god does exist and isn't incompetent. But I also believe an omnipotent spiritual energy which created the universe and life, has no need for humanistic attributes like caring or worrying. Those are attributes god has bestowed upon us, to deal with the realities in our physical existence and material world, which god also created.

It is the Big Misconception of man made Religion, that God has human emotion or attributes. God doesn't need to be jealous, angry, happy, loving, vengeful, or wanting. God does not care if you worship God, believe in God, accept the existence of God. God doesn't have desire, but if it existed, could easily satisfy it...God is God, after all.

So you may be saying, what's the difference then, whether I believe in god or not? And there is no difference, really. It is through the strength of faith in God that many people find inspired hope and strength they wouldn't normally experience. Positive results from faith in God are often referred to by the religious as "blessings." However, it is a misconception that God cares whether or not you accept spiritual nature or have faith in it. God is completely indifferent to what you believe....like lightning or electricity. God exists for your benefit through faith, understanding, spiritual connection... it is entirely up to you whether you chose to utilize this in your limited existence. Some call this, "free will."

Thanks for the answer. One of the first and only real attempts at answering. We don't necessarily agree on the existence of God, but that's ok. At least you attempted to reconcile the shit we see in the world with how God fits in to that picture.

You did get other answers. You rejected them because they did not fit into your beliefs.