Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

[Grumblenuts]

Open minded? Everyone has a bias. The real question is the desire to seek truth despite those biases. The way to change those beliefs/biases are somewhat of a mystery to all.

Now watch this and explain how there is no God

"Researchers have calculated" LOL. Biased researchers?

The Odds Of Your Unlikely Existence Were Not Infinitely Small
{...snip...}
This is true for all types of probabilities! So the next time something unlikely happens, or you realize that something very unlikely must have already occurred, remember that no matter how unlikely it is, the odds of it happening weren't infinitely small. Its existence, just like our existence, already disproves that possibility!

Nature. Brought to you by.. Probability!

 

[zaangalewa]

... Now I understand. What you are saying is that atheism is just my belief, and it is real, and to a theist, their religion is real to them? Yes, I agree. Spirituality is a feeling people get and it is very much real. Forgive me you are right about that.

Now you understand my problem with atheists. The problem is not atheism per se. Faith is a thing which comes from god - so it's only a little sad, if someone did not get this gift. The problem is the growing number of "artificial" atheists - you are an excellent example on your own for this "species" - who think their way to think is the only possible way. But there are many ways - while the same time not everything is a way. Your "open minded" looks in my eyes more "narrow minded" and when you fight then you fight against chimeras and not against real problems.

 

[Meriweather]

There are so many things you "Christians" can't even agree on. How do you expect to get along with atheists and muslims and jews when you can't even get along yourselves?

Most of my friends, family, and colleagues do not hold the same religious beliefs. Or even political beliefs. We enjoy different books, movies, and television programs. We even have differences about the plants we choose for our gardens! Differences are not weaknesses.

 

[Votto]

Open minded? Everyone has a bias. The real question is the desire to seek truth despite those biases. The way to change those beliefs/biases are somewhat of a mystery to all.

Now watch this and explain how there is no God

"Researchers have calculated" LOL. Biased researchers?

The Odds Of Your Unlikely Existence Were Not Infinitely Small
{...snip...}
This is true for all types of probabilities! So the next time something unlikely happens, or you realize that something very unlikely must have already occurred, remember that no matter how unlikely it is, the odds of it happening weren't infinitely small. Its existence, just like our existence, already disproves that possibility!

Everyone has a bias. The only question becomes, does your bias cause you to tell an untruth or avoid it?

The question goes both ways.

So have you looked into it or do you prefer your own bias?

The bottom line is, someone like you is expecting people to believe that a cell, which is the smallest living unit, could simply pop into existence by chance despite scientists not being able to duplicate it on their own with intelligent thought.

 

[sealybobo]

Yea but those who believe need to get on the same page. Just believing in God isn't enough. Muslims and Jews believe in god too. Why can't they get along? Why isn't god teaching them how to be nice to each other?

And I'm sure the white American Christian community doesn't stand with the black christian community on the issue of racism in America. There used to be a time when black slaves were christians too. Back then, white christians and black christians were clearly not on the same page. Wouldn't you agree?

Can you even begin to fathom why these two paragraphs made me angry? Answer me this:

1. How many Muslim students have you helped through Ramadan?
2. What about Jews? You ever have the opportunity to help a Jewish student feel proud of her faith when she herself didn't know what to say, but saw a group of Christian girls start looking at her like she and her faith were really cool? Ever convince someone to stay with her Jewish faith until she was at least a little older?
3. What about your black neighbors? Ever fix their sprinkler system or go through the summer mowing each other's lawns simply so one person can catch a break every so often?
4. Ever have a black co-worker totally have your back?!
5. What about gay students? Ever give them a place to be together and talk during lunch?

What is wrong with you? Every day we Christians, Muslims, Jews, atheists, different races, different sexual orientations extend a helping hand to everyone in our little world, knowing we do not have the power to change the entire world in a month, but that perhaps, like yeast, we can be a part of working towards that ideal.

And you want to blame God for the world not getting along. I bless God for His presence in my world, for the opportunity to be a part of something greater. Not only do you say you have walked away from God, how many other opportunities have you walked away from in your every day life because all five of the above are simply to small to even bother with.

I wish I could save the planet, I really do. Sit everyone down, have a nice little talk, and presto! Peace and prosperity to all! All I can do is bring a little bit of that into my tiny portion of the world while the world while the world's politicians and news media tell everyone how horrible we all are. The news media does not want peace. It was NEWS, and that means conflict. So don't tell Christians, Muslims, and Jews and people of different ethnicity we should get along because a great many of us are doing just that. But more fun to watch the news, hmmm?

I don't blame God. I don't think god exists. See where your thinking goes off track? I said what I said as an example of how this notion of god isn't making us better people. Ever notice that prisons are filled with people who believe in god?

And i can say yes to most of those things you asked me. Did I ever go out of my way to make a jew, black or gay feel accepted? Yes I have. And I also support diversity programs where companies go out of their way to find gay black mexican women and jews to fill roles because right now 95% of those jobs are filled by us white straight christian men.

Ok I'm not a christian but I doubt half the people I've worked with are. If they are/were they sure left that shit at the door.

 

[sealybobo]

I am totally open to the idea that god is real I just don’t believe any religions are real. I like debating with theists who agree religions are man made up. I agree the universe and this planet are amazing. And it seems like it’s too perfect and there has to be some higher power. But we know so little still. Maybe there are other universes? Maybe there was is or will be life around every star eventually. Maybe not as advance as us but maybe more. And maybe the spirit lives on forever after you die. Just seems like wishful thinking to me. But I hope so. These are unknowable things.

So far I see no evidence of god and I don’t believe one exists. Everything can be explained scientifically. What can’t, may never be known. Those gaps aren’t god.

Open minded? Everyone has a bias. The real question is the desire to seek truth despite those biases. The way to change those beliefs/biases are somewhat of a mystery to all.

Now watch this and explain how there is no God

I'm not watching that. That's what science is all about buddy. The desire to seek the truth.

And I was born into Christianity. The desire to seek the truth and having an open mind led me to atheism. But also in science we are taught to challenge authority. Question everything. If something doesn't make sense, don't accept it just because your parents or priest told you to accept it on faith.

If something doesn't make sense, throw it out and keep looking for answers.

So sorry if your religion isn't making any sense to me. Does Islam make sense to you?

 

[sealybobo]

... Now I understand. What you are saying is that atheism is just my belief, and it is real, and to a theist, their religion is real to them? Yes, I agree. Spirituality is a feeling people get and it is very much real. Forgive me you are right about that.

Now you understand my problem with atheists. The problem is not atheism per se. Faith is a thing which comes from god - so it's only a little sad, if someone did not get this gift. The problem is the growing number of "artificial" atheists - you are an excellent example on your own for this "species" - who think their way to think is the only possible way. But there are many ways - while the same time not everything is a way. Your "open minded" looks in my eyes more "narrow minded" and when you fight then you fight against chimeras and not against real problems.

You only see it that way because I can't see things your way. I have an open mind but what you are saying I don't accept as real or true. Sorry but you've had plenty of opportunity to convince me your way is right and you have failed. I'm ok with you believing what you believe.

You have the right to feel what you feel. That feeling is real to you. But only to you.

What do you mean it's only a little sad if someone doesn't get the gift from God? First of all, I tried and I even believed for many years. Why didn't got reveal himself or give me this feeling all those years? Because my mind maybe doesn't work the way yours works. My dad wants there to be a heaven so this is wishful thinking. He wants to see my mom again someday. This feeling he has doesn't come from god. This is him being sad and humans hate not knowing so we choose to believe there is an afterlife and that this god has given us a gift.

You know, many christians believe god doesn't interfer in our lives. So you think that god has sent you this gift? Does he also protect you from harm? Does he reward you with a good life because you are a believer?

What's the difference between an artificial atheist and a regular atheist? So you like regular atheists? What makes me an artificial atheist?

 

[sealybobo]

... Now I understand. What you are saying is that atheism is just my belief, and it is real, and to a theist, their religion is real to them? Yes, I agree. Spirituality is a feeling people get and it is very much real. Forgive me you are right about that.

Now you understand my problem with atheists. The problem is not atheism per se. Faith is a thing which comes from god - so it's only a little sad, if someone did not get this gift. The problem is the growing number of "artificial" atheists - you are an excellent example on your own for this "species" - who think their way to think is the only possible way. But there are many ways - while the same time not everything is a way. Your "open minded" looks in my eyes more "narrow minded" and when you fight then you fight against chimeras and not against real problems.

Why there is no god

Responses to common theist arguments

whynogod.wordpress.com

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

 

[sealybobo]

There are so many things you "Christians" can't even agree on. How do you expect to get along with atheists and muslims and jews when you can't even get along yourselves?

Most of my friends, family, and colleagues do not hold the same religious beliefs. Or even political beliefs. We enjoy different books, movies, and television programs. We even have differences about the plants we choose for our gardens! Differences are not weaknesses.

Isn't that odd that most of the people you know don't hold the same religious beliefs that you do?

For the record, when I was a theist, I was very much like you. A very liberal theist.

 

[Grumblenuts]

The bottom line is, someone like you is expecting people to believe that a cell, which is the smallest living unit, could simply pop into existence by chance despite scientists not being able to duplicate it on their own with intelligent thought.

Someone like me, eh? What a pistol. Let's just quick compare dick sizes.. What are the odds of your oh-so-likely-alternative-theory? Oh, jeez, you don't have any? Wow. How lame. Limp?

Start with RNA bases which we can already create easily from "primordial soup." What are the odds? 100%. Good. Now, how long before we create DNA? Probably not very long. How many million years did nature have to work on it? Several at least. Given DNA, producing a cell is cake. And done.

 

[buttercup]

You can't be an agnostic atheist.

I would say you are an agnostic secularist

• Atheist - There is no god.
• Nihilistic - Life has no meaning.
• Secular - Lack of religion.
• Agnostic - There may or may not be a god, but open to know more.
• Gnostic - Belief that the God (or gods) we worship are in fact evil tricksters and that a secret knowledge is preventing us from the true God.
• Animistic - Belief that all things contain spirits.
• Deist - There is a God who created life, but just watches and does not intervene.
• Theist - Belief in a higher power and at least one god.
• Polytheist - Belief in more than one god.
• Monotheist -believing in a single God - ie. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
• Apostate - A person who leaves a religion.
• Misotheist - A person that hates God or the Gods.
• Dustheism - Belief that God or the Gods are not totally good.
• Macioism - Belief that God is a Demiurge and wrathful, malicious evil creator. Similar to Gnostic.
• Euthesim - Belief in a totally good God.

What do you mean life has meaning? What is the meaning? What is our purpose? I think we could master the universe if we weren’t so primitive. Still warring with each other rather than working as one planet to get to mars and mine the meteor belt. Then build a ship the size of a planet that can also survive interstellar travel. Then we might have a purpose.

If we stay on this Rock eventually we will die of some natural cause. The planet will still have other creatures who survive this mass global extinction but even they too will die when the water goes or the sun burns out. If we go with the planet, what was our purpose?

We are a way for the universe to know itself. Amazing.

There is no purpose to life.

And if the universe is trying to know itself through humans it could do better since we only have an understanding of about 5% of it.

Sure there is... to become the best version of yourself and to pass it on. There's your meaning.

Simply put, evolution is when anything moves from a less advanced state to a more advanced state; a less complex state to a more complex state. Since the beginning of time matter has evolved and will continue to do so. Your purpose, your meaning in life is to evolve in consciousness and pass it on to the next generation.

That's your meaning.

You have no business telling my what mine is.

According to you, you don’t have one, right?

But according to Darwin the meaning of life is to pass down functional advantage to the next generation.

No not really

I know that what I do here while I'm alive will have little effect in the grand scheme of things.

And again that's Darwin and he has no more right to tell me what my purpose is than you do.

The human race has been here for but a blink in cosmological time and less than a minute in the earth's geological time.

We will be gone in but another few blinks of time as far as the cosmos is concerned.

Nothing anyone has ever done or will ever do will matter.

Yep, you're a nihilist alright.

As i said.

You have a fatalistic attitude, my friend.

I know.

Better a realist than some naive idealistic Pollyanna

No. A realist isn't a fatalist. A realist does not believe that life is without meaning. A realists accepts situations as they are and deals with them. Whereas a fatalist believes nothing matters (i.e. life is without meaning).

realist: a person who accepts a situation as it is and is prepared to deal with it accordingly.

fatalist: a person who believes all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable.

nihilist: a person who believes that life is meaningless.

I'm not a fatalist I do not think anything is predetermined. In fact I am just the opposite as I think events are totally random and chaotic.

And I can be a realist and a nihilist as the 2 are not mutually exclusive.

A realist is not able to say "everything is an illusion". Something has to produce this illusion. Cogito ergo sum.

In fact I do accept things the way they and deal with the way things are on a daily basis but in the really big picture I can also accept that those same things are meaningless

It's meaningless to say things are meaningless. Nothing what's real is unimportant. A minimal cause is able to produce a maximal effect. Example: A mutation of a virus starts a pandemic.

Where did I ever use the word "illusion"?

You used the word "nihilist" and a nihilist thinks everything is an illusion - that's why it is meaningless what we think and do.

And all that man does, feels, thinks or believes in the cosmic scope is meaningless.

So you are a nihilist - but not a realist. To be a realist excludes it to be a nihilist.

No a nihilist thinks life is meaningless.

Definition of NIHILISM

a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless; a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

You'll notice in the definition there is nothing about nihilism thinking life is an illusion.

So yes I can think life is meaningless and therefore be a nihilist and I can also be a realist and accept things the way they are

Nihilism | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

www.iep.utm.edu

It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticismthat condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy.

The impulse to destroy is your interpretation.

I have no impulse to destroy anything. I do not condemn existence I just know that it the cosmic scope of things our lives are meaningless.

And yes I am an extreme cynic and pessimist. I would rather expect something bad to happen and be ready for it ( realist) than expect only good things to happen and then be sucker punched by the bad shit.

Good fortune is nothing but random luck just like tragedy is nothing but random bad luck.

There is no meaning in the good or bad that happens to anyone.

Not my interpretation, bro. Straight out of the link I provided.

FYI, a cynic and pessimist is not a realist.

Of course they can be realists.

Expecting the worst as a pessimist does fits right in with realism.

Cynicism is a school of thought that one should live in virtue and reject desires for wealth power and fame.

Now being cynical is not in any way opposed to being realistic either as there has never been a being as deceitful and treacherous as the humans that we no of so nothing humans do can be accepted at face value. That is the epitome of realism

If you expect the worst, you're far more likely to end up getting the worst. ATTITUDE is one of the most important things in life, that is why successful people are usually people who are positive and don't hold themselves back with negative thoughts and a limiting mindset.

As ding said, it doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.

The reality is that there is good AND bad in life. There is BOTH. But it's possible to live life in a way that brings about more GOOD. So why go through life expecting the worst, when you can just accept the reality that there is both good and bad, but we can make things so much better if we simply do things the right way.

That said, I want to repeat something I said to LA RAM earlier on the thread. Well, I'll just link to the post, here it is: Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

I realize of course that you're not a believer, so you'll probably just dismiss that post I just linked to. But I wanted to bring up that point again because when you learn that there is more to life than just this current existence in this corrupted world, everything makes so much more sense, and you can live life with true HOPE and understanding that truth, meaning and a true GOOD exists. Those things have a source, the same source of the physical world and all of existence. The Creator, the living God, who is infinitely more than just an impersonal "force."

There are no words that adequately express how amazing it is to finally see and believe, and live your life in a way that has true meaning, purpose, faith, love and HOPE!

There's so much more to be said here, but I could go on and on, so I'll refrain, haha! I'll leave it at this. Coming to Christ was the best decision I ever made, by far. It doesn't just change your life, you literally become a new creation and you have a whole new life. One that is infinitely better than life apart from God. In just about every way.

That's new age bullshit.

And there is nothing to learn about some afterlife because there is no afterlife.

What is? I already acknowledged that you wouldn't believe the latter part of my post, so I never expected you to believe that. But point out anything I said in the first 3 paragraphs that is false. And back yourself up. Saying something is bs is not an argument.

 

[Blues Man]

You can't be an agnostic atheist.

I would say you are an agnostic secularist

• Atheist - There is no god.
• Nihilistic - Life has no meaning.
• Secular - Lack of religion.
• Agnostic - There may or may not be a god, but open to know more.
• Gnostic - Belief that the God (or gods) we worship are in fact evil tricksters and that a secret knowledge is preventing us from the true God.
• Animistic - Belief that all things contain spirits.
• Deist - There is a God who created life, but just watches and does not intervene.
• Theist - Belief in a higher power and at least one god.
• Polytheist - Belief in more than one god.
• Monotheist -believing in a single God - ie. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
• Apostate - A person who leaves a religion.
• Misotheist - A person that hates God or the Gods.
• Dustheism - Belief that God or the Gods are not totally good.
• Macioism - Belief that God is a Demiurge and wrathful, malicious evil creator. Similar to Gnostic.
• Euthesim - Belief in a totally good God.

What do you mean life has meaning? What is the meaning? What is our purpose? I think we could master the universe if we weren’t so primitive. Still warring with each other rather than working as one planet to get to mars and mine the meteor belt. Then build a ship the size of a planet that can also survive interstellar travel. Then we might have a purpose.

If we stay on this Rock eventually we will die of some natural cause. The planet will still have other creatures who survive this mass global extinction but even they too will die when the water goes or the sun burns out. If we go with the planet, what was our purpose?

We are a way for the universe to know itself. Amazing.

There is no purpose to life.

And if the universe is trying to know itself through humans it could do better since we only have an understanding of about 5% of it.

Sure there is... to become the best version of yourself and to pass it on. There's your meaning.

Simply put, evolution is when anything moves from a less advanced state to a more advanced state; a less complex state to a more complex state. Since the beginning of time matter has evolved and will continue to do so. Your purpose, your meaning in life is to evolve in consciousness and pass it on to the next generation.

That's your meaning.

You have no business telling my what mine is.

According to you, you don’t have one, right?

But according to Darwin the meaning of life is to pass down functional advantage to the next generation.

No not really

I know that what I do here while I'm alive will have little effect in the grand scheme of things.

And again that's Darwin and he has no more right to tell me what my purpose is than you do.

The human race has been here for but a blink in cosmological time and less than a minute in the earth's geological time.

We will be gone in but another few blinks of time as far as the cosmos is concerned.

Nothing anyone has ever done or will ever do will matter.

Yep, you're a nihilist alright.

As i said.

You have a fatalistic attitude, my friend.

I know.

Better a realist than some naive idealistic Pollyanna

No. A realist isn't a fatalist. A realist does not believe that life is without meaning. A realists accepts situations as they are and deals with them. Whereas a fatalist believes nothing matters (i.e. life is without meaning).

realist: a person who accepts a situation as it is and is prepared to deal with it accordingly.

fatalist: a person who believes all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable.

nihilist: a person who believes that life is meaningless.

I'm not a fatalist I do not think anything is predetermined. In fact I am just the opposite as I think events are totally random and chaotic.

And I can be a realist and a nihilist as the 2 are not mutually exclusive.

A realist is not able to say "everything is an illusion". Something has to produce this illusion. Cogito ergo sum.

In fact I do accept things the way they and deal with the way things are on a daily basis but in the really big picture I can also accept that those same things are meaningless

It's meaningless to say things are meaningless. Nothing what's real is unimportant. A minimal cause is able to produce a maximal effect. Example: A mutation of a virus starts a pandemic.

Where did I ever use the word "illusion"?

You used the word "nihilist" and a nihilist thinks everything is an illusion - that's why it is meaningless what we think and do.

And all that man does, feels, thinks or believes in the cosmic scope is meaningless.

So you are a nihilist - but not a realist. To be a realist excludes it to be a nihilist.

No a nihilist thinks life is meaningless.

Definition of NIHILISM

a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless; a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

You'll notice in the definition there is nothing about nihilism thinking life is an illusion.

So yes I can think life is meaningless and therefore be a nihilist and I can also be a realist and accept things the way they are

Nihilism | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

www.iep.utm.edu

It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticismthat condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy.

The impulse to destroy is your interpretation.

I have no impulse to destroy anything. I do not condemn existence I just know that it the cosmic scope of things our lives are meaningless.

And yes I am an extreme cynic and pessimist. I would rather expect something bad to happen and be ready for it ( realist) than expect only good things to happen and then be sucker punched by the bad shit.

Good fortune is nothing but random luck just like tragedy is nothing but random bad luck.

There is no meaning in the good or bad that happens to anyone.

Not my interpretation, bro. Straight out of the link I provided.

FYI, a cynic and pessimist is not a realist.

Of course they can be realists.

Expecting the worst as a pessimist does fits right in with realism.

Cynicism is a school of thought that one should live in virtue and reject desires for wealth power and fame.

Now being cynical is not in any way opposed to being realistic either as there has never been a being as deceitful and treacherous as the humans that we no of so nothing humans do can be accepted at face value. That is the epitome of realism

If you expect the worst, you're far more likely to end up getting the worst. ATTITUDE is one of the most important things in life, that is why successful people are usually people who are positive and don't hold themselves back with negative thoughts and a limiting mindset.

As ding said, it doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.

The reality is that there is good AND bad in life. There is BOTH. But it's possible to live life in a way that brings about more GOOD. So why go through life expecting the worst, when you can just accept the reality that there is both good and bad, but we can make things so much better if we simply do things the right way.

That said, I want to repeat something I said to LA RAM earlier on the thread. Well, I'll just link to the post, here it is: Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

I realize of course that you're not a believer, so you'll probably just dismiss that post I just linked to. But I wanted to bring up that point again because when you learn that there is more to life than just this current existence in this corrupted world, everything makes so much more sense, and you can live life with true HOPE and understanding that truth, meaning and a true GOOD exists. Those things have a source, the same source of the physical world and all of existence. The Creator, the living God, who is infinitely more than just an impersonal "force."

There are no words that adequately express how amazing it is to finally see and believe, and live your life in a way that has true meaning, purpose, faith, love and HOPE!

There's so much more to be said here, but I could go on and on, so I'll refrain, haha! I'll leave it at this. Coming to Christ was the best decision I ever made, by far. It doesn't just change your life, you literally become a new creation and you have a whole new life. One that is infinitely better than life apart from God. In just about every way.

That's new age bullshit.

And there is nothing to learn about some afterlife because there is no afterlife.

What is? I already acknowledged that you wouldn't believe the latter part of my post, so I never expected you to believe that. But point out anything I said in the first 3 paragraphs that is false. And back yourself up. Saying something is bs is not an argument.

The very first line is new age bull.

Just because a person always prepares for the worst in no way indicates a poor attitude. In fact I'll say it's the more rational and mature thing to do.

It's better to be prepared for the worst that way you can be surprised when things go perfectly. It doesn't work very well the other way around.

 

[sealybobo]

You can't be an agnostic atheist.

I would say you are an agnostic secularist

• Atheist - There is no god.
• Nihilistic - Life has no meaning.
• Secular - Lack of religion.
• Agnostic - There may or may not be a god, but open to know more.
• Gnostic - Belief that the God (or gods) we worship are in fact evil tricksters and that a secret knowledge is preventing us from the true God.
• Animistic - Belief that all things contain spirits.
• Deist - There is a God who created life, but just watches and does not intervene.
• Theist - Belief in a higher power and at least one god.
• Polytheist - Belief in more than one god.
• Monotheist -believing in a single God - ie. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
• Apostate - A person who leaves a religion.
• Misotheist - A person that hates God or the Gods.
• Dustheism - Belief that God or the Gods are not totally good.
• Macioism - Belief that God is a Demiurge and wrathful, malicious evil creator. Similar to Gnostic.
• Euthesim - Belief in a totally good God.

What do you mean life has meaning? What is the meaning? What is our purpose? I think we could master the universe if we weren’t so primitive. Still warring with each other rather than working as one planet to get to mars and mine the meteor belt. Then build a ship the size of a planet that can also survive interstellar travel. Then we might have a purpose.

If we stay on this Rock eventually we will die of some natural cause. The planet will still have other creatures who survive this mass global extinction but even they too will die when the water goes or the sun burns out. If we go with the planet, what was our purpose?

We are a way for the universe to know itself. Amazing.

There is no purpose to life.

And if the universe is trying to know itself through humans it could do better since we only have an understanding of about 5% of it.

Sure there is... to become the best version of yourself and to pass it on. There's your meaning.

Simply put, evolution is when anything moves from a less advanced state to a more advanced state; a less complex state to a more complex state. Since the beginning of time matter has evolved and will continue to do so. Your purpose, your meaning in life is to evolve in consciousness and pass it on to the next generation.

That's your meaning.

You have no business telling my what mine is.

According to you, you don’t have one, right?

But according to Darwin the meaning of life is to pass down functional advantage to the next generation.

No not really

I know that what I do here while I'm alive will have little effect in the grand scheme of things.

And again that's Darwin and he has no more right to tell me what my purpose is than you do.

The human race has been here for but a blink in cosmological time and less than a minute in the earth's geological time.

We will be gone in but another few blinks of time as far as the cosmos is concerned.

Nothing anyone has ever done or will ever do will matter.

Yep, you're a nihilist alright.

As i said.

You have a fatalistic attitude, my friend.

I know.

Better a realist than some naive idealistic Pollyanna

No. A realist isn't a fatalist. A realist does not believe that life is without meaning. A realists accepts situations as they are and deals with them. Whereas a fatalist believes nothing matters (i.e. life is without meaning).

realist: a person who accepts a situation as it is and is prepared to deal with it accordingly.

fatalist: a person who believes all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable.

nihilist: a person who believes that life is meaningless.

I'm not a fatalist I do not think anything is predetermined. In fact I am just the opposite as I think events are totally random and chaotic.

And I can be a realist and a nihilist as the 2 are not mutually exclusive.

A realist is not able to say "everything is an illusion". Something has to produce this illusion. Cogito ergo sum.

In fact I do accept things the way they and deal with the way things are on a daily basis but in the really big picture I can also accept that those same things are meaningless

It's meaningless to say things are meaningless. Nothing what's real is unimportant. A minimal cause is able to produce a maximal effect. Example: A mutation of a virus starts a pandemic.

Where did I ever use the word "illusion"?

You used the word "nihilist" and a nihilist thinks everything is an illusion - that's why it is meaningless what we think and do.

And all that man does, feels, thinks or believes in the cosmic scope is meaningless.

So you are a nihilist - but not a realist. To be a realist excludes it to be a nihilist.

No a nihilist thinks life is meaningless.

Definition of NIHILISM

a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless; a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

You'll notice in the definition there is nothing about nihilism thinking life is an illusion.

So yes I can think life is meaningless and therefore be a nihilist and I can also be a realist and accept things the way they are

Nihilism | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

www.iep.utm.edu

It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticismthat condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy.

The impulse to destroy is your interpretation.

I have no impulse to destroy anything. I do not condemn existence I just know that it the cosmic scope of things our lives are meaningless.

And yes I am an extreme cynic and pessimist. I would rather expect something bad to happen and be ready for it ( realist) than expect only good things to happen and then be sucker punched by the bad shit.

Good fortune is nothing but random luck just like tragedy is nothing but random bad luck.

There is no meaning in the good or bad that happens to anyone.

Not my interpretation, bro. Straight out of the link I provided.

FYI, a cynic and pessimist is not a realist.

Of course they can be realists.

Expecting the worst as a pessimist does fits right in with realism.

Cynicism is a school of thought that one should live in virtue and reject desires for wealth power and fame.

Now being cynical is not in any way opposed to being realistic either as there has never been a being as deceitful and treacherous as the humans that we no of so nothing humans do can be accepted at face value. That is the epitome of realism

If you expect the worst, you're far more likely to end up getting the worst. ATTITUDE is one of the most important things in life, that is why successful people are usually people who are positive and don't hold themselves back with negative thoughts and a limiting mindset.

As ding said, it doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.

The reality is that there is good AND bad in life. There is BOTH. But it's possible to live life in a way that brings about more GOOD. So why go through life expecting the worst, when you can just accept the reality that there is both good and bad, but we can make things so much better if we simply do things the right way.

That said, I want to repeat something I said to LA RAM earlier on the thread. Well, I'll just link to the post, here it is: Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

I realize of course that you're not a believer, so you'll probably just dismiss that post I just linked to. But I wanted to bring up that point again because when you learn that there is more to life than just this current existence in this corrupted world, everything makes so much more sense, and you can live life with true HOPE and understanding that truth, meaning and a true GOOD exists. Those things have a source, the same source of the physical world and all of existence. The Creator, the living God, who is infinitely more than just an impersonal "force."

There are no words that adequately express how amazing it is to finally see and believe, and live your life in a way that has true meaning, purpose, faith, love and HOPE!

There's so much more to be said here, but I could go on and on, so I'll refrain, haha! I'll leave it at this. Coming to Christ was the best decision I ever made, by far. It doesn't just change your life, you literally become a new creation and you have a whole new life. One that is infinitely better than life apart from God. In just about every way.

That's new age bullshit.

And there is nothing to learn about some afterlife because there is no afterlife.

What is? I already acknowledged that you wouldn't believe the latter part of my post, so I never expected you to believe that. But point out anything I said in the first 3 paragraphs that is false. And back yourself up. Saying something is bs is not an argument.

The very first line is new age bull.

Just because a person always prepares for the worst in no way indicates a poor attitude. In fact I'll say it's the more rational and mature thing to do.

It's better to be prepared for the worst that way you can be surprised when things go perfectly. It doesn't work very well the other way around.

For example, I have a wonderful life and I'm very very happy. I have had a great life all my life. But, I know the end is going to suck. Heart attack would be great. Quick and no one watching me suffer for weeks knowing I'm going to die but not giving me enough morphine to put me down quickly.

My mom had alzheimers. I hope I don't get it but I guess it runs in my family. She was the only one who got it so hopefully it skips a generation. Not that I would wish that on my kids. I have no kids.

Remember these people by believing in God are preparing for the worst. They know it's coming too. But they have told themselves that when this body dies, their spirit moves on to another rhelm where in essence they will live forever as gods themselves. Never get sick, never hungry, never sad.

Now they don't see themselves as gods or don't call themselves gods in waiting but that's exactly what they believe. At least I would call them demigods. So if that aint wishful thinking I don't know what is.

 

[zaangalewa]

... Now I understand. What you are saying is that atheism is just my belief, and it is real, and to a theist, their religion is real to them? Yes, I agree. Spirituality is a feeling people get and it is very much real. Forgive me you are right about that.

Now you understand my problem with atheists. The problem is not atheism per se. Faith is a thing which comes from god - so it's only a little sad, if someone did not get this gift. The problem is the growing number of "artificial" atheists - you are an excellent example on your own for this "species" - who think their way to think is the only possible way. But there are many ways - while the same time not everything is a way. Your "open minded" looks in my eyes more "narrow minded" and when you fight then you fight against chimeras and not against real problems.

Why there is no god

Responses to common theist arguments

whynogod.wordpress.com

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist.

But existence exists. Why? Nothing in this world here is able to create existence. (Energy is not able to be created or to be destroyed. It is only able to be transformed.) So what is your god "empirism" working with in this context, if it compares "the creator" with a human idea which is not materialistic existing within creation? We are not able to leave the created world and to take a look there!

Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

Again. Agnosticism is a philosophy. Atheism is a belief and as a belief one of the results of the philosophy agnosticism. You are an atheist = a believer in atheism, who does not like to know what the philosophy agnosticism is.

And now "bye bye". I will not answer any longer. To discuss in never ending circles is a kind of prototype of sin. For me it was totally senseless to try to speak with you.

 

[Grumblenuts]

New Age - for buttercup's reference

Again. Agnosticism is a philosophy. Atheims is is a belief

No. Again. Atheism is lack of "belief" - period!
"bye bye"
Bubbye!

 

[Grumblenuts]

You can't be an agnostic atheist.

I would say you are an agnostic secularist

• Atheist - There is no god.
• Nihilistic - Life has no meaning.
• Secular - Lack of religion.
• Agnostic - There may or may not be a god, but open to know more.
• Gnostic - Belief that the God (or gods) we worship are in fact evil tricksters and that a secret knowledge is preventing us from the true God.
• Animistic - Belief that all things contain spirits.
• Deist - There is a God who created life, but just watches and does not intervene.
• Theist - Belief in a higher power and at least one god.
• Polytheist - Belief in more than one god.
• Monotheist -believing in a single God - ie. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
• Apostate - A person who leaves a religion.
• Misotheist - A person that hates God or the Gods.
• Dustheism - Belief that God or the Gods are not totally good.
• Macioism - Belief that God is a Demiurge and wrathful, malicious evil creator. Similar to Gnostic.
• Euthesim - Belief in a totally good God.

What do you mean life has meaning? What is the meaning? What is our purpose? I think we could master the universe if we weren’t so primitive. Still warring with each other rather than working as one planet to get to mars and mine the meteor belt. Then build a ship the size of a planet that can also survive interstellar travel. Then we might have a purpose.

If we stay on this Rock eventually we will die of some natural cause. The planet will still have other creatures who survive this mass global extinction but even they too will die when the water goes or the sun burns out. If we go with the planet, what was our purpose?

We are a way for the universe to know itself. Amazing.

There is no purpose to life.

And if the universe is trying to know itself through humans it could do better since we only have an understanding of about 5% of it.

Sure there is... to become the best version of yourself and to pass it on. There's your meaning.

Simply put, evolution is when anything moves from a less advanced state to a more advanced state; a less complex state to a more complex state. Since the beginning of time matter has evolved and will continue to do so. Your purpose, your meaning in life is to evolve in consciousness and pass it on to the next generation.

That's your meaning.

You have no business telling my what mine is.

According to you, you don’t have one, right?

But according to Darwin the meaning of life is to pass down functional advantage to the next generation.

No not really

I know that what I do here while I'm alive will have little effect in the grand scheme of things.

And again that's Darwin and he has no more right to tell me what my purpose is than you do.

The human race has been here for but a blink in cosmological time and less than a minute in the earth's geological time.

We will be gone in but another few blinks of time as far as the cosmos is concerned.

Nothing anyone has ever done or will ever do will matter.

Yep, you're a nihilist alright.

As i said.

You have a fatalistic attitude, my friend.

I know.

Better a realist than some naive idealistic Pollyanna

No. A realist isn't a fatalist. A realist does not believe that life is without meaning. A realists accepts situations as they are and deals with them. Whereas a fatalist believes nothing matters (i.e. life is without meaning).

realist: a person who accepts a situation as it is and is prepared to deal with it accordingly.

fatalist: a person who believes all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable.

nihilist: a person who believes that life is meaningless.

I'm not a fatalist I do not think anything is predetermined. In fact I am just the opposite as I think events are totally random and chaotic.

And I can be a realist and a nihilist as the 2 are not mutually exclusive.

A realist is not able to say "everything is an illusion". Something has to produce this illusion. Cogito ergo sum.

In fact I do accept things the way they and deal with the way things are on a daily basis but in the really big picture I can also accept that those same things are meaningless

It's meaningless to say things are meaningless. Nothing what's real is unimportant. A minimal cause is able to produce a maximal effect. Example: A mutation of a virus starts a pandemic.

Where did I ever use the word "illusion"?

You used the word "nihilist" and a nihilist thinks everything is an illusion - that's why it is meaningless what we think and do.

And all that man does, feels, thinks or believes in the cosmic scope is meaningless.

So you are a nihilist - but not a realist. To be a realist excludes it to be a nihilist.

No a nihilist thinks life is meaningless.

Definition of NIHILISM

a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless; a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

You'll notice in the definition there is nothing about nihilism thinking life is an illusion.

So yes I can think life is meaningless and therefore be a nihilist and I can also be a realist and accept things the way they are

Nihilism | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

www.iep.utm.edu

It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticismthat condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy.

The impulse to destroy is your interpretation.

I have no impulse to destroy anything. I do not condemn existence I just know that it the cosmic scope of things our lives are meaningless.

And yes I am an extreme cynic and pessimist. I would rather expect something bad to happen and be ready for it ( realist) than expect only good things to happen and then be sucker punched by the bad shit.

Good fortune is nothing but random luck just like tragedy is nothing but random bad luck.

There is no meaning in the good or bad that happens to anyone.

Not my interpretation, bro. Straight out of the link I provided.

FYI, a cynic and pessimist is not a realist.

Of course they can be realists.

Expecting the worst as a pessimist does fits right in with realism.

Cynicism is a school of thought that one should live in virtue and reject desires for wealth power and fame.

Now being cynical is not in any way opposed to being realistic either as there has never been a being as deceitful and treacherous as the humans that we no of so nothing humans do can be accepted at face value. That is the epitome of realism

If you expect the worst, you're far more likely to end up getting the worst. ATTITUDE is one of the most important things in life, that is why successful people are usually people who are positive and don't hold themselves back with negative thoughts and a limiting mindset.

As ding said, it doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.

The reality is that there is good AND bad in life. There is BOTH. But it's possible to live life in a way that brings about more GOOD. So why go through life expecting the worst, when you can just accept the reality that there is both good and bad, but we can make things so much better if we simply do things the right way.

That said, I want to repeat something I said to LA RAM earlier on the thread. Well, I'll just link to the post, here it is: Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

I realize of course that you're not a believer, so you'll probably just dismiss that post I just linked to. But I wanted to bring up that point again because when you learn that there is more to life than just this current existence in this corrupted world, everything makes so much more sense, and you can live life with true HOPE and understanding that truth, meaning and a true GOOD exists. Those things have a source, the same source of the physical world and all of existence. The Creator, the living God, who is infinitely more than just an impersonal "force."

There are no words that adequately express how amazing it is to finally see and believe, and live your life in a way that has true meaning, purpose, faith, love and HOPE!

There's so much more to be said here, but I could go on and on, so I'll refrain, haha! I'll leave it at this. Coming to Christ was the best decision I ever made, by far. It doesn't just change your life, you literally become a new creation and you have a whole new life. One that is infinitely better than life apart from God. In just about every way.

That's new age bullshit.

And there is nothing to learn about some afterlife because there is no afterlife.

What is? I already acknowledged that you wouldn't believe the latter part of my post, so I never expected you to believe that. But point out anything I said in the first 3 paragraphs that is false. And back yourself up. Saying something is bs is not an argument.

The very first line is new age bull.

Just because a person always prepares for the worst in no way indicates a poor attitude. In fact I'll say it's the more rational and mature thing to do.

It's better to be prepared for the worst that way you can be surprised when things go perfectly. It doesn't work very well the other way around.

For example, I have a wonderful life and I'm very very happy. I have had a great life all my life. But, I know the end is going to suck. Heart attack would be great. Quick and no one watching me suffer for weeks knowing I'm going to die but not giving me enough morphine to put me down quickly.

My mom had alzheimers. I hope I don't get it but I guess it runs in my family. She was the only one who got it so hopefully it skips a generation. Not that I would wish that on my kids. I have no kids.

Remember these people by believing in God are preparing for the worst. They know it's coming too. But they have told themselves that when this body dies, their spirit moves on to another rhelm where in essence they will live forever as gods themselves. Never get sick, never hungry, never sad.

Now they don't see themselves as gods or don't call themselves gods in waiting but that's exactly what they believe. At least I would call them demigods. So if that aint wishful thinking I don't know what is.

Same here. Nothing really worthy of complaint in the grand scheme of things. My dad had a brain aneurysm putting on his boots one morning and died in an instant. My mom too had dementia/Alzheimer's and lasted many depressing years. I'm hoping for the former.

 

[buttercup]

You can't be an agnostic atheist.

I would say you are an agnostic secularist

• Atheist - There is no god.
• Nihilistic - Life has no meaning.
• Secular - Lack of religion.
• Agnostic - There may or may not be a god, but open to know more.
• Gnostic - Belief that the God (or gods) we worship are in fact evil tricksters and that a secret knowledge is preventing us from the true God.
• Animistic - Belief that all things contain spirits.
• Deist - There is a God who created life, but just watches and does not intervene.
• Theist - Belief in a higher power and at least one god.
• Polytheist - Belief in more than one god.
• Monotheist -believing in a single God - ie. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
• Apostate - A person who leaves a religion.
• Misotheist - A person that hates God or the Gods.
• Dustheism - Belief that God or the Gods are not totally good.
• Macioism - Belief that God is a Demiurge and wrathful, malicious evil creator. Similar to Gnostic.
• Euthesim - Belief in a totally good God.

What do you mean life has meaning? What is the meaning? What is our purpose? I think we could master the universe if we weren’t so primitive. Still warring with each other rather than working as one planet to get to mars and mine the meteor belt. Then build a ship the size of a planet that can also survive interstellar travel. Then we might have a purpose.

If we stay on this Rock eventually we will die of some natural cause. The planet will still have other creatures who survive this mass global extinction but even they too will die when the water goes or the sun burns out. If we go with the planet, what was our purpose?

We are a way for the universe to know itself. Amazing.

There is no purpose to life.

And if the universe is trying to know itself through humans it could do better since we only have an understanding of about 5% of it.

Sure there is... to become the best version of yourself and to pass it on. There's your meaning.

Simply put, evolution is when anything moves from a less advanced state to a more advanced state; a less complex state to a more complex state. Since the beginning of time matter has evolved and will continue to do so. Your purpose, your meaning in life is to evolve in consciousness and pass it on to the next generation.

That's your meaning.

You have no business telling my what mine is.

According to you, you don’t have one, right?

But according to Darwin the meaning of life is to pass down functional advantage to the next generation.

No not really

I know that what I do here while I'm alive will have little effect in the grand scheme of things.

And again that's Darwin and he has no more right to tell me what my purpose is than you do.

The human race has been here for but a blink in cosmological time and less than a minute in the earth's geological time.

We will be gone in but another few blinks of time as far as the cosmos is concerned.

Nothing anyone has ever done or will ever do will matter.

Yep, you're a nihilist alright.

As i said.

You have a fatalistic attitude, my friend.

I know.

Better a realist than some naive idealistic Pollyanna

No. A realist isn't a fatalist. A realist does not believe that life is without meaning. A realists accepts situations as they are and deals with them. Whereas a fatalist believes nothing matters (i.e. life is without meaning).

realist: a person who accepts a situation as it is and is prepared to deal with it accordingly.

fatalist: a person who believes all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable.

nihilist: a person who believes that life is meaningless.

I'm not a fatalist I do not think anything is predetermined. In fact I am just the opposite as I think events are totally random and chaotic.

And I can be a realist and a nihilist as the 2 are not mutually exclusive.

A realist is not able to say "everything is an illusion". Something has to produce this illusion. Cogito ergo sum.

In fact I do accept things the way they and deal with the way things are on a daily basis but in the really big picture I can also accept that those same things are meaningless

It's meaningless to say things are meaningless. Nothing what's real is unimportant. A minimal cause is able to produce a maximal effect. Example: A mutation of a virus starts a pandemic.

Where did I ever use the word "illusion"?

You used the word "nihilist" and a nihilist thinks everything is an illusion - that's why it is meaningless what we think and do.

And all that man does, feels, thinks or believes in the cosmic scope is meaningless.

So you are a nihilist - but not a realist. To be a realist excludes it to be a nihilist.

No a nihilist thinks life is meaningless.

Definition of NIHILISM

a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless; a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

You'll notice in the definition there is nothing about nihilism thinking life is an illusion.

So yes I can think life is meaningless and therefore be a nihilist and I can also be a realist and accept things the way they are

Nihilism | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

www.iep.utm.edu

It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticismthat condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy.

The impulse to destroy is your interpretation.

I have no impulse to destroy anything. I do not condemn existence I just know that it the cosmic scope of things our lives are meaningless.

And yes I am an extreme cynic and pessimist. I would rather expect something bad to happen and be ready for it ( realist) than expect only good things to happen and then be sucker punched by the bad shit.

Good fortune is nothing but random luck just like tragedy is nothing but random bad luck.

There is no meaning in the good or bad that happens to anyone.

Not my interpretation, bro. Straight out of the link I provided.

FYI, a cynic and pessimist is not a realist.

Of course they can be realists.

Expecting the worst as a pessimist does fits right in with realism.

Cynicism is a school of thought that one should live in virtue and reject desires for wealth power and fame.

Now being cynical is not in any way opposed to being realistic either as there has never been a being as deceitful and treacherous as the humans that we no of so nothing humans do can be accepted at face value. That is the epitome of realism

If you expect the worst, you're far more likely to end up getting the worst. ATTITUDE is one of the most important things in life, that is why successful people are usually people who are positive and don't hold themselves back with negative thoughts and a limiting mindset.

As ding said, it doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.

The reality is that there is good AND bad in life. There is BOTH. But it's possible to live life in a way that brings about more GOOD. So why go through life expecting the worst, when you can just accept the reality that there is both good and bad, but we can make things so much better if we simply do things the right way.

That said, I want to repeat something I said to LA RAM earlier on the thread. Well, I'll just link to the post, here it is: Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

I realize of course that you're not a believer, so you'll probably just dismiss that post I just linked to. But I wanted to bring up that point again because when you learn that there is more to life than just this current existence in this corrupted world, everything makes so much more sense, and you can live life with true HOPE and understanding that truth, meaning and a true GOOD exists. Those things have a source, the same source of the physical world and all of existence. The Creator, the living God, who is infinitely more than just an impersonal "force."

There are no words that adequately express how amazing it is to finally see and believe, and live your life in a way that has true meaning, purpose, faith, love and HOPE!

There's so much more to be said here, but I could go on and on, so I'll refrain, haha! I'll leave it at this. Coming to Christ was the best decision I ever made, by far. It doesn't just change your life, you literally become a new creation and you have a whole new life. One that is infinitely better than life apart from God. In just about every way.

That's new age bullshit.

And there is nothing to learn about some afterlife because there is no afterlife.

What is? I already acknowledged that you wouldn't believe the latter part of my post, so I never expected you to believe that. But point out anything I said in the first 3 paragraphs that is false. And back yourself up. Saying something is bs is not an argument.

The very first line is new age bull.

Just because a person always prepares for the worst in no way indicates a poor attitude. In fact I'll say it's the more rational and mature thing to do.

It's better to be prepared for the worst that way you can be surprised when things go perfectly. It doesn't work very well the other way around.

You're slightly changing what I said. I wasn't talking about "preparing" for the worst. Of course it's good to be prepared for anything. My exact words were, "If you expect the worst, you're far more likely to end up getting the worst." - In other words, if you go through life with a negative attitude always expecting bad things to happen, then they are more likely to happen. That is not just a "New Age" thing, the bible clearly teaches that our thoughts are very important, because our actions start with what is inside our mind/heart.

But you can't just dismiss that as a spiritual thing, because it is simply true, it's the way life works. There are certain things people learn through experience, going through different experiences and trials in life. We learn what works and what doesn't work. I think it's safe to say that it's a universal truth that our actions are preceded by our thoughts.

So getting back to what I actually said, (as opposed to what you changed it to) I simply said that if we always expect the worse, we are more likely to end up getting what we expect. Again, this is not just a "spiritual" thing, there are logical common sense reasons why this is the case.

For example, if you have a skill or talent that you can make a career out of, but you have a negative attitude and you tell yourself, "I will never be able to get a job as a ______" (whatever the case may be) and always expect the worst to happen, then you're probably not going to put yourself out there confidently and go for it. That "expecting the worst" attitude prevents you from doing certain things that you otherwise would do, if you had a positive attitude.

I really don't see how that can be denied.

As I said earlier (which you did not address), there is good and bad in this life. There is BOTH. Of course we are supposed to be aware and awake in regard to the fact that there is bad in this world, and the bible clearly states that. But it also says to control our thoughts and think about GOOD things.

Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is worthy of respect, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if something is excellent or praiseworthy, think about these things.​

​

-Philippians 4:8​

 

[sealybobo]

... Now I understand. What you are saying is that atheism is just my belief, and it is real, and to a theist, their religion is real to them? Yes, I agree. Spirituality is a feeling people get and it is very much real. Forgive me you are right about that.

Now you understand my problem with atheists. The problem is not atheism per se. Faith is a thing which comes from god - so it's only a little sad, if someone did not get this gift. The problem is the growing number of "artificial" atheists - you are an excellent example on your own for this "species" - who think their way to think is the only possible way. But there are many ways - while the same time not everything is a way. Your "open minded" looks in my eyes more "narrow minded" and when you fight then you fight against chimeras and not against real problems.

Why there is no god

Responses to common theist arguments

whynogod.wordpress.com

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist.

But existence exists. Why? Nothing in this world here is able to create existence. (Energy is not able to be created or to be destroyed. It is only able to be transformed.) So what is your god "empirism" working with in this context, if it compares "the creator" with a human idea which is not materialistic existing within creation? We are not able to leave the created world and to take a look there!

Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

Again. Agnosticism is a philosophy. Atheism is a belief and as a belief one of the results of the philosophy agnosticism. You are an atheist = a believer in atheism, who does not like to know what the philosophy agnosticism is.

And now "bye bye". I will not answer any longer. To discuss in never ending circles is a kind of prototype of sin. For me it was totally senseless to try to speak with you.

I agree. You seem senseless to me too. If you want to prove your god is real you'll have to get better at it and try again later.

Can you tell us why existence exists? Why? You know why? Well then WHY? Please enlighten us. And don't talk in foreign riddles. Speak plain english.

I can tell you a lot about how existence exists. You know, the big bang, dark matter vs regular matter. How stars formed from gas, blew up and flung their inners out into the universe where they created planets around newer younger stars. Blablabla. It's all in The Cosmos. They explain as much as science can explain.

But they also admit there are things they don't know. And I'm sure you are asking the questions that they can't answer. But just because they don't know doesn't mean god exists. That's God of the Gaps. Ever hear of it?

I love it. Your religion tells you that it's a sin to talk to an atheist for too long. LOL. Are they afraid I might shake your faith? Are you afraid?

 

[sealybobo]

New Age - for buttercup's reference

Again. Agnosticism is a philosophy. Atheims is is a belief

No. Again. Atheism is lack of "belief" - period!
"bye bye"
Bubbye!

Zaangalewa hasn't posted one interesting thing really it will be no sweat off my balls if he doesn't participate anymore. He asks stupid questions and he talks in foreign riddles I'm not interested in decyphering. And nothing he asks really makes a case for why he believe god is real.

And I admitted to him his feeling is real. So if he feels a god exists, that feeling is real, same as my feeling that there is no god. So he was right. It is real. A real feeling but nothing more.

And i'm sorry if calling his feeling is just being gullible and wishful thinking. I too wish there was a heaven and I could see my mom and grandmother again. I tool have the wishful thinking but I don't have the gullible thing. Most people choose to believe because they want to believe. And then there are the people who believe because they believe doubting will send them to hell. That's a whole other thing.

 

[sealybobo]

You can't be an agnostic atheist.

I would say you are an agnostic secularist

• Atheist - There is no god.
• Nihilistic - Life has no meaning.
• Secular - Lack of religion.
• Agnostic - There may or may not be a god, but open to know more.
• Gnostic - Belief that the God (or gods) we worship are in fact evil tricksters and that a secret knowledge is preventing us from the true God.
• Animistic - Belief that all things contain spirits.
• Deist - There is a God who created life, but just watches and does not intervene.
• Theist - Belief in a higher power and at least one god.
• Polytheist - Belief in more than one god.
• Monotheist -believing in a single God - ie. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
• Apostate - A person who leaves a religion.
• Misotheist - A person that hates God or the Gods.
• Dustheism - Belief that God or the Gods are not totally good.
• Macioism - Belief that God is a Demiurge and wrathful, malicious evil creator. Similar to Gnostic.
• Euthesim - Belief in a totally good God.

What do you mean life has meaning? What is the meaning? What is our purpose? I think we could master the universe if we weren’t so primitive. Still warring with each other rather than working as one planet to get to mars and mine the meteor belt. Then build a ship the size of a planet that can also survive interstellar travel. Then we might have a purpose.

If we stay on this Rock eventually we will die of some natural cause. The planet will still have other creatures who survive this mass global extinction but even they too will die when the water goes or the sun burns out. If we go with the planet, what was our purpose?

We are a way for the universe to know itself. Amazing.

There is no purpose to life.

And if the universe is trying to know itself through humans it could do better since we only have an understanding of about 5% of it.

Sure there is... to become the best version of yourself and to pass it on. There's your meaning.

Simply put, evolution is when anything moves from a less advanced state to a more advanced state; a less complex state to a more complex state. Since the beginning of time matter has evolved and will continue to do so. Your purpose, your meaning in life is to evolve in consciousness and pass it on to the next generation.

That's your meaning.

You have no business telling my what mine is.

According to you, you don’t have one, right?

But according to Darwin the meaning of life is to pass down functional advantage to the next generation.

No not really

I know that what I do here while I'm alive will have little effect in the grand scheme of things.

And again that's Darwin and he has no more right to tell me what my purpose is than you do.

The human race has been here for but a blink in cosmological time and less than a minute in the earth's geological time.

We will be gone in but another few blinks of time as far as the cosmos is concerned.

Nothing anyone has ever done or will ever do will matter.

Yep, you're a nihilist alright.

As i said.

You have a fatalistic attitude, my friend.

I know.

Better a realist than some naive idealistic Pollyanna

No. A realist isn't a fatalist. A realist does not believe that life is without meaning. A realists accepts situations as they are and deals with them. Whereas a fatalist believes nothing matters (i.e. life is without meaning).

realist: a person who accepts a situation as it is and is prepared to deal with it accordingly.

fatalist: a person who believes all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable.

nihilist: a person who believes that life is meaningless.

I'm not a fatalist I do not think anything is predetermined. In fact I am just the opposite as I think events are totally random and chaotic.

And I can be a realist and a nihilist as the 2 are not mutually exclusive.

A realist is not able to say "everything is an illusion". Something has to produce this illusion. Cogito ergo sum.

In fact I do accept things the way they and deal with the way things are on a daily basis but in the really big picture I can also accept that those same things are meaningless

It's meaningless to say things are meaningless. Nothing what's real is unimportant. A minimal cause is able to produce a maximal effect. Example: A mutation of a virus starts a pandemic.

Where did I ever use the word "illusion"?

You used the word "nihilist" and a nihilist thinks everything is an illusion - that's why it is meaningless what we think and do.

And all that man does, feels, thinks or believes in the cosmic scope is meaningless.

So you are a nihilist - but not a realist. To be a realist excludes it to be a nihilist.

No a nihilist thinks life is meaningless.

Definition of NIHILISM

a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless; a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

You'll notice in the definition there is nothing about nihilism thinking life is an illusion.

So yes I can think life is meaningless and therefore be a nihilist and I can also be a realist and accept things the way they are

Nihilism | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

www.iep.utm.edu

It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticismthat condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy.

The impulse to destroy is your interpretation.

I have no impulse to destroy anything. I do not condemn existence I just know that it the cosmic scope of things our lives are meaningless.

And yes I am an extreme cynic and pessimist. I would rather expect something bad to happen and be ready for it ( realist) than expect only good things to happen and then be sucker punched by the bad shit.

Good fortune is nothing but random luck just like tragedy is nothing but random bad luck.

There is no meaning in the good or bad that happens to anyone.

Not my interpretation, bro. Straight out of the link I provided.

FYI, a cynic and pessimist is not a realist.

Of course they can be realists.

Expecting the worst as a pessimist does fits right in with realism.

Cynicism is a school of thought that one should live in virtue and reject desires for wealth power and fame.

Now being cynical is not in any way opposed to being realistic either as there has never been a being as deceitful and treacherous as the humans that we no of so nothing humans do can be accepted at face value. That is the epitome of realism

If you expect the worst, you're far more likely to end up getting the worst. ATTITUDE is one of the most important things in life, that is why successful people are usually people who are positive and don't hold themselves back with negative thoughts and a limiting mindset.

As ding said, it doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.

The reality is that there is good AND bad in life. There is BOTH. But it's possible to live life in a way that brings about more GOOD. So why go through life expecting the worst, when you can just accept the reality that there is both good and bad, but we can make things so much better if we simply do things the right way.

That said, I want to repeat something I said to LA RAM earlier on the thread. Well, I'll just link to the post, here it is: Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

I realize of course that you're not a believer, so you'll probably just dismiss that post I just linked to. But I wanted to bring up that point again because when you learn that there is more to life than just this current existence in this corrupted world, everything makes so much more sense, and you can live life with true HOPE and understanding that truth, meaning and a true GOOD exists. Those things have a source, the same source of the physical world and all of existence. The Creator, the living God, who is infinitely more than just an impersonal "force."

There are no words that adequately express how amazing it is to finally see and believe, and live your life in a way that has true meaning, purpose, faith, love and HOPE!

There's so much more to be said here, but I could go on and on, so I'll refrain, haha! I'll leave it at this. Coming to Christ was the best decision I ever made, by far. It doesn't just change your life, you literally become a new creation and you have a whole new life. One that is infinitely better than life apart from God. In just about every way.

That's new age bullshit.

And there is nothing to learn about some afterlife because there is no afterlife.

What is? I already acknowledged that you wouldn't believe the latter part of my post, so I never expected you to believe that. But point out anything I said in the first 3 paragraphs that is false. And back yourself up. Saying something is bs is not an argument.

The very first line is new age bull.

Just because a person always prepares for the worst in no way indicates a poor attitude. In fact I'll say it's the more rational and mature thing to do.

It's better to be prepared for the worst that way you can be surprised when things go perfectly. It doesn't work very well the other way around.

For example, I have a wonderful life and I'm very very happy. I have had a great life all my life. But, I know the end is going to suck. Heart attack would be great. Quick and no one watching me suffer for weeks knowing I'm going to die but not giving me enough morphine to put me down quickly.

My mom had alzheimers. I hope I don't get it but I guess it runs in my family. She was the only one who got it so hopefully it skips a generation. Not that I would wish that on my kids. I have no kids.

Remember these people by believing in God are preparing for the worst. They know it's coming too. But they have told themselves that when this body dies, their spirit moves on to another rhelm where in essence they will live forever as gods themselves. Never get sick, never hungry, never sad.

Now they don't see themselves as gods or don't call themselves gods in waiting but that's exactly what they believe. At least I would call them demigods. So if that aint wishful thinking I don't know what is.

Same here. Nothing really worthy of complaint in the grand scheme of things. My dad had a brain aneurysm putting on his boots one morning and died in an instant. My mom too had dementia/Alzheimer's and lasted many depressing years. I'm hoping for the former.

“I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” – Mark Twain